A Clash of Kings - A Divided Kingdom

[Macavitar]

Well, this is the MacavityLock portion of the hydra signing off, and passing the torch to Baltar for now. My biggest scum reads:
vezo and SSBF - Same basic reasons as yesterday.
CSL - Coming down on Mina for the non-hammer of dana. Mina's action wasn't scummy then, and pointing it out as scummy and setting up Mina makes perfect sense if CSL is dana's scumbuddy.

I haven't had any time to digest IDI's scumness, so this post does not take him into account. I apologize for the brevity of this post, but I'm leaving for the first part of my vacation in 5 mins. Later.

[diddin]

MacAvitar: When the Raivann wagon was rolling, he FoSed him, Then HoS'd him, before finally voting.

[Eddard Stark]

Votecount 3.1 The '

Dunk the Lunk

' votecount.

Super Smash Bros. Fan (3) -

Diddin, Axelrod, xvart

Vezokpiraka (2) -

Benmage, RichardGHP

Benmage (1)

Mina

Not Voting (12) -

Percy, Thor665, Mikujin, Vezokpiraka, MagnaofIllusion, Unsight, Rifka Viveka, Super Smash Bros. Fan, hasdgfas, Locke Lamora, Macavitar, CSL

With 18 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

Those who wish to prove themselves to the gods (have stepped forward)

Diddin, Super Smash Bros. Fan, Axelrod, Rifka Viveka, CSL, xvart, Thor665, Mina, Vezokpiraka, Macavitar

[Benmage]

Macav I like post 1435 posts…More or less agree with those rush reads, except for CSL’s.

Mina is totally right. Cop 101 is dont investigate total obv town or total VI at the bottom of the scuminess barrel thats an obv lynch. So its suspicious when experienced player like benmage advocates wasting it on percy

Use my experience to your benefit and trust me.
Just because Percy has you guys groveling at him doesn’t make me convinced. He certainly has the capacity to play this way and be scum. I never voted for him to be hand. I’m not in the same boat as you guys all are. Having him confirmed will make his double vote during the day much more trusted. Also more likely for him to draw night protection if you ask me.

There are basically 2 options. Percy, or someone we think is scummy.
Confirming Percy puts a smart, experienced, double voter confirmed town. It’s like having 2 townies instead of 1 confirmed.
This would in my book yield Rich, Thor, Percyx2, Me. As town, which is pretty damn powerful.

Well Nobody listens to me.
If you do then the scums should be SSBF ,

Mina and someone else who I can't seem to find

.
If you promise to keep me alive I will make cases about them.

I'm tempted with this alone.

No, thank you, Mina. You too, Rifka.

Percy: I have information that indicates you're anti-town. I'd like a claim now to see if there's any other possible explanation for what I know.

Thor: I would advise you hold off from vigging anyone until this plays out.

*Insert Middle finger* You wanted Benmage WoT he’s warming up baby. (Faraday keep me in check prior to modkilling thx)

Why are you not voting someone who appears on your list of suspects? Secondly, why the hell would you have Percy step forward as opposed to someone who is of a less clear alignment? That doesn't make much sense.

The list is people I want to reanalyze. I don't need to re-look at Vezo. I have a full grasp there.

Do my other comments to Percy suffice?

I'm officially saying it now, anyone pushing for percy to be investigated gets scum points in my book. First, Percy is not impossible to read, so I don't know why people feel that way. He may be more difficult, but I think if you look closely at his play it is easy to see if there is consistency or not. That's the key to percy-town vs. percy-scum. From what I have read so far, we're looking at Percy town here. The game would be much better served by investigating someone of a murkier (or lurkier!) alignment.

I'm super glad it is ML's spot buddying Percy so vehemently.

No, thank you, Mina. You too, Rifka.

Percy: I have information that indicates you're anti-town. I'd like a claim now to see if there's any other possible explanation for what I know.

Hmm, ok. I reserve my earlier judgement (only about Locke mind you). Let's hear this now, Percy. Hold that Vig thor.

Love the stubborness, and you trying to hold a last bit of pride, rather than admitting you were wrong. It's admirable.

Sometimes a player can post in such a way I get such a strong town read that I feel it's unnecassary, but Percy certainly wasn't there yet.

QFT

@Mina

I'd be more than happy to put you in your place as well. So far what you got against me? 1)Not acting like myself(WoT Benmage) But when I do you complain I spam . 2) As a subtext of 1 you don't like my questions. Well they for me confirmed Thor's alignment prior to his claim. So back off, let me do my thing. I am better than you. Period. Do not question my methods. 3) I was "drooling" at dana's claim. Look how that turned out. 4) I want Percy to step forward. (Said my peace on this, and Oooo Look at what Locke might have)

More to come gal. Don't you worry.

[Benmage]

Particularly not with someone who can barely form complete sentences.)

I'm not interested in a spelling bee or English lessons. You'll find my logic much more sound than any dribble you will put forth. And that's what will matter, F-grammar. Not these long over drawn paragraphs you seem so fond of.

[Macavitar]

Here's my reply - either read up, or just start responding to the new stuff. Tell us which you're doing and accept whatever flak you get from the choice as your due. I see no reason at all to weigh in on how you should handle a catch up read, why do you not have an idea in your own head for what is the best way for town to catch up?

Well, the reason I said that is because I only have a certain level of knowledge of the game thus far and I'm making that known. Trust me, I'm happy with playing just from this point and not spending a whole day reading another 25 pages. I know I'm more than competent enough at this game to catch scum off of what I read and playing from now (with occasionally needing to ask a background question), but towns tend to get whiny when people take that approach and I'm willing to do the work if necessary. That's why I asked.

There are basically 2 options. Percy, or someone we think is scummy.
Confirming Percy puts a smart, experienced, double voter confirmed town. It’s like having 2 townies instead of 1 confirmed.
This would in my book yield Rich, Thor, Percyx2, Me. As town, which is pretty damn powerful.

Or you can do the smart thing and either confirm or condemn some cannon fodder. Regardless of Percy's alignment, scum aren't going to want him around (WIFOM). He's not lynchable and he has two votes. Therefore, he's a threat. Why don't we let the scum take care of him? The smarter move in this situation is to investigate someone who appears scummy and is a perennial lynch candidate (SSBF for example). If he gets confirmed as town, then the scum have to kill him, thus saving better scum hunters for later in the game. If he's scum, well booya. Somehow I doubt that you don't see the optimum town strategy in this situation and are still town. You're really starting to worry me benmage.

I'm super glad it is ML's spot buddying Percy so vehemently.

lol, so? We could both very easily be town. I really get sick of people calling buddying without seeing alignment flips. Here's a hint: THAT'S NOT HOW IT WORKS. If Percy flips scum, then you'd have an argument (though I would never be so blatant unnecessarily as scum).

Love the stubborness, and you trying to hold a last bit of pride, rather than admitting you were wrong. It's admirable.

This makes about zero sense. Locke apparently has a legitimate reason for wanting Percy investigated. I can understand why he said what he said and therefore, I am willing to back off of him until that is sorted out. You and Axelrod, however, had no reason to say what you said other than protecting your own skins or that of hypo-scumbuddies. Let's say you and Percy were of opposing scum factions. By and large, you'd probably think he is town because he's played a pro-town game. Therefore, he's a safe place for you to plunk the investigation because it's a guaranteed result that 1) doesn't threaten you or your scumbuddies and 2) prevents anyone else from potentially becoming confirmed town. On the other hand, the flimsy argument being proposed of "I can't read Percy boohoo" is a terrible reason to spend a free investigation.

You may find this bullying helpful against noobs benny, but you should know by now that it doesn't work on me. You tried it in Last Man Standing and it just got you shot. If you're town here, it's best not to approach me like that. If you expect me to take you seriously, then speak logic and not bullying.

[Benmage]

Again, in regards to Percy having him a confirmed skilled veteran player. With a double vote is a good thing. And will draw doc protections or whatnot. In this scenario, we don’t want scum killing him, and we have a strong confirmed(hopefully protected) PR.

I'm super glad it is ML's spot buddying Percy so vehemently.

lol, so? We could both very easily be town. I really get sick of people calling buddying without seeing alignment flips. Here's a hint: THAT'S NOT HOW IT WORKS. If Percy flips scum, then you'd have an argument (though I would never be so blatant unnecessarily as scum).

People use the word maybe without its exact correct definition. Just like chainsaw. Both yes are reliant on flips. But you can still say buddying. You are backing him up. Thats buddy in my book. What word would you use to describe it?

Love the stubborness, and you trying to hold a last bit of pride, rather than admitting you were wrong. It's admirable.

This makes about zero sense. Locke apparently has a legitimate reason for wanting Percy investigated. I can understand why he said what he said and therefore, I am willing to back off of him until that is sorted out. You and Axelrod, however, had no reason to say what you said other than protecting your own skins or that of hypo-scumbuddies. Let's say you and Percy were of opposing scum factions. By and large, you'd probably think he is town because he's played a pro-town game. Therefore, he's a safe place for you to plunk the investigation because it's a guaranteed result that 1) doesn't threaten you or your scumbuddies and 2) prevents anyone else from potentially becoming confirmed town. On the other hand, the flimsy argument being proposed of "I can't read Percy boohoo" is a terrible reason to spend a free investigation.

You may find this bullying helpful against noobs benny, but you should know by now that it doesn't work on me. You tried it in Last Man Standing and it just got you shot. If you're town here, it's best not to approach me like that. If you expect me to take you seriously, then speak logic and not bullying.

I tend to be nothing but logical. I have given my reasons for wanting Percy. If you are too wrapped up and aren't taking any moments to breathe and read what I'm saying I'd be happy to bullet them for you once more. But after that we should move on.

There are people I have neutral reads on, whats wrong with that? Percy is not an auto-town read that you guys have. But getting a 100% read on an experienced player with a known PR is something I'd like. This way people can protect him.

Why do you want his identity to be decided with death, and by scum?? This sounds like a terrible idea. If he's town I want him to live. Under your logic scum would be smarter to let him live, and have us ina few days going wtf, wtf, wtf the hand lives, and maybe mislynch him in lylo. No, lets find out his identity and protect the PR.

Much like axel said. Confirm the experienced neutral read, and attack the poor scummy players.

[Thor665]

People use the word maybe without its exact correct definition. Just like chainsaw. Both yes are reliant on flips. But you can still say buddying. You are backing him up. Thats buddy in my book. What word would you use to describe it?

More importantly, and not cleanly addressed by you, what meaning did you intend for the word to have when you used it?

[Benmage]

People use the word maybe without its exact correct definition. Just like chainsaw. Both yes are reliant on flips. But you can still say buddying.

You are backing him up. Thats buddy in my book.

What word would you use to describe it?

More importantly, and not cleanly addressed by you, what meaning did you intend for the word to have when you used it?

Buddying. In this sense as a scum might do to a town person to get said town persons support. Or as a scum might do with a fellow scum to make the other person, me, feel as I am alone in my beliefs.

[Macavitar]

People use the word maybe without its exact correct definition. Just like chainsaw. Both yes are reliant on flips. But you can still say buddying. You are backing him up. Thats buddy in my book. What word would you use to describe it?

It's called talking about your reads. If I have a town read on Percy, why do I want to use an investigation there? Highly illogical. Is Percy confirmed, hell no. Could he be scum, perhaps. But all I have to go on are my reads (which you agreed with other than CSL, mind you), so it makes no sense to investigate there. Percy doesn't become the all powerful god of scum hunting by gaining confirmed innocence. All you will do is paint a bigger target on his back. Yes, the doc can protect there, but one confirmed innocent is not better than one confirmed innocent (or dead scum) and highly likely innocent. At some point you have to stop relying on PRs to win the game and do some actual scum/town hunting.

Buddying. In this sense as a scum might do to a town person to get said town persons support. Or as a scum might do with a fellow scum to make the other person, me, feel as I am alone in my beliefs.

So do you think Percy or myself are scum? Do you have any legitimate reason to believe this or do you want to spend a free investigation on the outside chance of it being true? I mean, this discussion is starting to deteriorate into theory because we now have a new part of the equation in Locke Lamora to help clear things up, but I stand by my statement that what you're proposing is sub-optimal play.

If you are too wrapped up and aren't taking any moments to breathe and read what I'm saying I'd be happy to bullet them for you once more. But after that we should move on.

I read what you said and I countered with why it was the wrong play. Are you not taking any moments to breathe and read what I'm saying? Repeating yourself does not counter the points I made.

[Macavitar]

BTW, gods of MS, white quote boxes = horrendously ugly. You can tell your je-sus I said so.

[Mikujin]

1. With the cop investigation I was able to turn this into a high information day for town.
2. I do hate the Vezo wagon...I have continuously commented on how distracting it is for town and how his 'too scummy to be scum' situation is distressing to me.
3. With 3 or so kills a night I would rather get my power out and used now while it can help speed up investigations rather then hoping I live till late enough to have a functional target to pick.

When do you think I should have "dropped it"?

What does everyone else think of Percy being put forward? He does have two votes, after all.

Mikujin: we can't wait, the alignment reveal gets posted with the lynch scene.

That was my fault; again, dead tired, misread the way the investigation event went down. I thought we were getting the results prior to lynch, at the end of the week of stepping forward, and that we'd be able to use said information to make an informed decision on who to snipe with the vig kill. (Thanks for point it out Lock)

In light of this, I'd say that SSBF is the better of the two choices (being Vezo and SSBF) for the vig targets. I think we're much more likely to glean useful information from SSBF's flip than Vezo's, since the latter of the two hasn't really been posting anything worth noting (except the recent claim crap).

Vig SSBD -> Investigate ??? -> Lynch ???/Vezo pending investigation, is what I'm thinking right now. The alternative in vigging Vezo isn't all that bad, either; get's rid of either scum or VI sooner than later.

This is all pending what we hear from Percy/Lock, of course. On that note:

@Lock:

All you're doing is saying you have "results" that indicate Percy is "anti-town." Forgive my skepticism, but are you softclaiming cop? And if you are/are not, to what extent is Percy anti-town (scum/third-party)? I only make the inquiry because you seem to be holding your tongue, which hasn't exactly been your style in the past. (For instance: in the past you've usually made your case and voted right away, but not this time.)

[Macavitar]

In light of this, I'd say that SSBF is the better of the two choices (being Vezo and SSBF) for the vig targets. I think we're much more likely to glean useful information from SSBF's flip than Vezo's, since the latter of the two hasn't really been posting anything worth noting (except the recent claim crap).

What information is gained if SSBF flips town? Isn't the point of a vig to, you know, kill scum? Do you think SSBF is more likely to flip scum than vezo? If so, why?

All you're doing is saying you have "results" that indicate Percy is "anti-town." Forgive my skepticism, but are you softclaiming cop? And if you are/are not, to what extent is Percy anti-town (scum/third-party)? I only make the inquiry because you seem to be holding your tongue, which hasn't exactly been your style in the past.

Stop rolefishing. The only thing to do now is wait for Percy. Locke doesn't have to say a word until Percy gets here and does whatever 'splaining he needs to do.

[Mikujin]

In light of this, I'd say that SSBF is the better of the two choices (being Vezo and SSBF) for the vig targets. I think we're much more likely to glean useful information from SSBF's flip than Vezo's, since the latter of the two hasn't really been posting anything worth noting (except the recent claim crap).

What information is gained if SSBF flips town? Isn't the point of a vig to, you know, kill scum? Do you think SSBF is more likely to flip scum than vezo? If so, why?

Because, as I've stated prior, I think Vezo is more likely to be a VI than scum. I made a case on him ages ago which I revised down the road stating as such, I stand by it. And while the day vig is

intended

to hit scum, what happens if it hits town? At least if SSBF flips town we can dismiss some bussing/buddying arguments that have fallen on him. If Vezo flips town we get to go "Oh, I guess the stupid claim wasn't as dumb as we thought."

All you're doing is saying you have "results" that indicate Percy is "anti-town." Forgive my skepticism, but are you softclaiming cop? And if you are/are not, to what extent is Percy anti-town (scum/third-party)? I only make the inquiry because you seem to be holding your tongue, which hasn't exactly been your style in the past.

Stop rolefishing. The only thing to do now is wait for Percy. Locke doesn't have to say a word until Percy gets here and does whatever 'splaining he needs to do.

Apologies for this; my original draft of that post also included the caveat that I didn't expect to hear any more from Locke until after Percy had replied to his accusations. I evidently failed to include it in the final draft.

[Unsight]

Step Forward

I'm glad Baltar hydra'd into MacCavityLock's slot. Despite his habit of mangling quotes, he's far more direct in his buddying with SSBF as evidenced in his trying to convince the dayvig to shoot vezo or, rather, not shoot SSBF.

Also:

Or you can do the smart thing and either confirm or condemn some cannon fodder. Regardless of Percy's alignment, scum aren't going to want him around (WIFOM). He's not lynchable and he has two votes. Therefore, he's a threat. Why don't we let the scum take care of him? The smarter move in this situation is to investigate someone who appears scummy and is a perennial lynch candidate (SSBF for example). If he gets confirmed as town, then the scum have to kill him, thus saving better scum hunters for later in the game. If he's scum, well booya. Somehow I doubt that you don't see the optimum town strategy in this situation and are still town. You're really starting to worry me benmage.

This quote reveals two things. The first is that Baltar is actually trying to bank on scum actions which is never a good sign. The second is that Baltar doesn't want SSBF lynched. If Vezo is dayvigged then the natural lynch goes to SSBF. Baltar is already looking ahead to SSBF being investigated despite having just said this in the previous post:

Well, this is the MacavityLock portion of the hydra signing off, and passing the torch to Baltar for now. My biggest scum reads:
vezo and SSBF - Same basic reasons as yesterday.
CSL - Coming down on Mina for the non-hammer of dana. Mina's action wasn't scummy then, and pointing it out as scummy and setting up Mina makes perfect sense if CSL is dana's scumbuddy.

So Baltar, why are you listing SSBF as one of your biggest scum reads but pushing to not have him dayvigged and also planning not to lynch him?

FWIW, I called the SSBF/MacCavityLock shenanigans on day 1:

Defindently

unraise

. I have a few pro-town reads now.

We have a question.

Who would be in favor of raising the Drippereth hydra? Who would be against? Please explain your decision.

I'll be in favor of raising you. Like others said, you have been playing very well. Although

I prefer to raise Macavity Lock instead

, you're not a bad choice either.

The same MacavityLock who suddenly perked up when I vote you but still manages to put you in his dislikes? You scum buddies are funny.

You scum buddies are still funny.

VOTE: SSBF

[Macavitar]

Because, as I've stated prior, I think Vezo is more likely to be a VI than scum.

Ok, I'll rescind my comments if you did then. Like I said, I still haven't read the entire thread, so I probably haven't gotten to that part yet.

This quote reveals two things. The first is that Baltar is actually trying to bank on scum actions which is never a good sign.

This quote reveals, you have no idea how to maximize your town play. Forcing scum to kill confirmed towns that are VIs is win-win. Play better.

The second is that Baltar doesn't want SSBF lynched. If Vezo is dayvigged then the natural lynch goes to SSBF. Baltar is already looking ahead to SSBF being investigated despite having just said this in the previous post:

Why would I, if I was SSBF's scumbuddy, want him to be investigated and have his alignment revealed to the entire thread. But you are so right! Look at me buddy the hell out of SSBF. Hey everyone, nominate my scumbuddy SSBF so you can find out he's scum and then we can lynch him. kekekekekeke [/sarcasm]

So Baltar, why are you listing SSBF as one of your biggest scum reads but pushing to not have him dayvigged and also planning not to lynch him?

Well, if you actually read things before you posted, you'd have seen that post was made by Macavity Lock, who just so happens not to be Baltar. My own post of reads had SSBF listed as neutral/scummy, but he certainly isn't at the top of my list of concerns. Perhaps that would change over the last 25 pages or so I need to read, but that's neither here nor there. What is important is your poorly executed attempt to string lynches together.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Step Forward.

I would like to know benmage or magnaofillusion alignments personally

The feeling is mutual because I’d really like to have yours investigated also. Funny how my pressure against you at the end of the Day yields this gem. Still not scum-hunting for you, but at this point that’s to be expected.

@Benmage and Axel

– If you both are so worried about players who are viewed as Pro-Town why are you not also suggesting Mina be the Worship investigation target?

This would in my book yield Rich, Thor, Percyx2, Me. As town, which is pretty damn powerful.

You are including Rich who you earlier basically called a waste in your Power group? Funny, just because you have started actually providing content please don’t assume everyone thinks you are Town. Your Day 1 and most of Day 2 was horrible.

Guys, I'll become more active on my own time and terms. Bugging me about it will get you nowhere and only waste time.

Good to know as someone who is cleared you will continue to lurk and not contribute.

The first is that Baltar is actually trying to bank on scum actions which is never a good sign.

Is this analysis reserved for just Baltar? Because I don’t recall you calling out Mina Day 2 when she make comments along the same lines asking for dana to be Nightkilled by scum and not lynched.

And don’t think I’ve forgotten your little rant at the end of Day 2. The fact that you had to be strong-armed into voting dana makes me think you might just be Lannister scum. I’ll get to that later. But for now …

VOTE: Unsight

And now that Locke has said what he's said I think it becomes even more an issue.

Actually Locke’s information more than likely makes Percy a bad worship choice if Locke already can provide evidence he is scum.

Role Claim: Dayvig

My intent is to kill vezok unless town can explain to me a better kill option. My kill does not end the day, so basically town will get a free flip and a free investigation today. When I decide who to kill I will make the usual claim and final suspicions requests prior to vigging them.

Now that you’ve outed your role a Daykill (assuming limited from the way you have presented) is a must. Vezo makes a good target but wait to see what develops. We have plenty of time today. In light of the Worship it may be prudent to see who is getting revealed at the end of Day and then deciding what way to go with your VIg.

@Mina

- Care to comment on why you were so passionate about dana escaping the lynch yesterday? I like your play thus far on most every issue but that one.

[hasdgfas]

Step Forward

, as that seems to be flavor of the day. Now I have to read up the 5 pages or so I missed due to unexpected spontaneous lack of internet(can explain further if need be)

[Rifka Viveka]

The feeling is mutual because I’d really like to have yours investigated also. Funny how my pressure against you at the end of the Day yields this gem.

I wont even pretend it isnt OMGUS to a degree. However i think its quite natural to wonder of the person pressing you is scum when some of the reasons for doing so are from my perspective bullshit. I certainly wouldnt be opposed to being investigated to make my life easier, but thats kinda selfish to campaign for. (dont worry, you dont need to boil in here saying i could be just saying that, i know)

trust me

Im sure you will recall that appeal to experience is also a logical fallacy...its not like i think percy is 100% town, not at all. but in this multiscum enviro+my towny read on him, im plenty comfortable leaving him for now. Of course that will depend on percys claim and how it compares to LL info...so just awaiting some percy activity here.

[hasdgfas]

Post 1394 - Benmage: What a bizarre twosome. Why those two?
Post 1395 - diddin: :goodvote:
Post 1396 - Benmage: I thought the same thing, but why specifically rereading him?
Post 1400 - SSBF: This has to be the most bizarre question I've ever seen in my life. Why the heck are you asking it?
Post 1405 - Benmage: I said this yesterday and you dismissed it. Why the change of heart?
Post 1411 - Richard: Do it anyway. Can't hurt anything.
Post 1419 - Axelrod: When there are two scumteams, they have to scumhunt as well. Because of that, I'm not sure what you're getting at with the last paragraph.
Post 1427 - Mina: I think I see what you're getting at, however: A) not sure it should be revealed yet. B) Why ask me in particular?. C)

@Percy:

should I reveal everything?
Post 1438 - Mina: I'm not sure I've been called "obvtown" as opposed to people just having town reads on me. That's perfectly possible, isn't it? People just thinking I'm town, even if you don't? Not everyone's reads are the same
Post 1440 - vezo: You know what. How about you actually play the game? That's the best way to do this. 2 lines in each post, with no explanation, and a promise of only bandwagoning, doesn't help your defense

at all

.
Post 1441 - SSBF:

THOR, do NOT answer this question if you haven't already. There is NO TOWN REASON TO

.
Post 1443 - Locke: :eyebrows:



strange day so far.
Firstly, SSBF needs to be dead.

Vote: SSBF

Percy needs to show up today.
Mina seems to be acting strangely. Something seems off, but I'm not sure whether it's scummy strange or just weird strange.

That's it for now, planning to post something tomorrow, but while I'm thinking of it.

@MOD: V/LA until Tuesday.

I'll be able to post(hopefully) every day except Monday though, just not often.

[RichardGHP]

Step Foward

as per Cow's request. Still don't see the point, but whatever.

[Percy]

Post incoming in a few hours. Stay tuned!

[Benmage]

Post 1394 - Benmage: What a bizarre twosome. Why those two?
Post 1396 - Benmage: I thought the same thing, but why specifically rereading him?

1. A confirmed town power role, or a free lynch essentially confirming or finding a scum in some scummy player.(As pretty much said a lot by now)
2. He died and flipped scum...

Post 1405 - Benmage: I said this yesterday and you dismissed it. Why the change of heart?

I don't even recall. But I can lookup what occurred and guesstimate if you like.

[Benmage]

@Benmage and Axel

– If you both are so worried about players who are viewed as Pro-Town why are you not also suggesting Mina be the Worship investigation target?

Who said Mina is town?

This would in my book yield Rich, Thor, Percyx2, Me. As town, which is pretty damn powerful.

You are including Rich who you earlier basically called a waste in your Power group? Funny, just because you have started actually providing content please don’t assume everyone thinks you are Town. Your Day 1 and most of Day 2 was horrible.

Yeah Rich is confirmed. So I don't need to bother scrutinizing him. I thought my first 20 pages, or most of D1 rocked. I just got caught up in shit towards the end. Now horrible is an overstatement unless by horrible you mean better than most people in this game, than sure. Look at my play in it's totality. Yes I'm town. And yes most people who are also town, probably think this by now.

[Percy]

Hi VP! Sorry about your apartment

1. Setup and flavour speculation

I'm pretty sure we're dealing with the Lannisters and Greyjoys as scumteams, along with a SK or possibly a vig - the two "hacked to pieces" kills have both been on scum, and have been on one of each of the known scumteams. Three scumteams doesn't make much sense flavour-wise, as of the five factions, we've had flips from each. No Stark has flipped, but their allies (House Umber is sworn to House Stark, Jaqen was indebted to Arya) have flipped town. The Baratheons (Stannis and Renly) are both town. So I'm pretty confident that we have a lone killer of indeterminate alignment, and two scumteams.

I think this is worth claiming now, and I see that hasdgfas ignored Mina's question.

LynchMePls was the master of the Kingsguard, and he was able to recruit five players to a QT. The players he invited were:
-Myself
-Mina
-hasdgfas
-Drippereth
-julienvonwolfe

julienvonwolfe was a last-minute recruit to the Kingsguard. Drippereth and LynchMePls are now also dead. Thus only three of us are left.

Now as Mina hinted, two of the Kingsguard kills were by Lannisters. Scum recruited to Kingsguard would want to off the Kingsguard as soon as possible. I'll go into more detail throughout my post.

2. Stepping Forward + Locke's result

Step Forward

Firstly, I do not know why Locke believes I am scum. I am willing to claim my role name, if that's the reason, as my character's loyalties are opaque at the best of times.

In fact, I'm going to do that now, since I may lose a breadcrumb if everyone else in the Kingsguard dies.

I'm

Lady Melisandre of Asshai

. I breadcrumbed both in the thread:

@Benmage:

Why you gotta hate on Melisandre, Tyrion and Bran? Speculation like this makes me . At the very least, you're telling the bad guys what names they should avoid claiming.

(Not a great breadcrumb, but my name did come up...)
...and in the Kingsguard QT:

By way of softclaim, I think the scumteam is going to be the Lannisters and the Greyjoys.

I knew that the Stannis faction were not scum. This is my better breadcrumb, as Percy-scum would have been risking this coming back to bite him if the Stannis faction was anti-town. But that's WIFOM, I know.

I'm not going to claim my role at this time. I am, however, pro-town. Other than that, I can provide no further information (eg I am not a miller, as far as I know).

An investigation of me does have some benefits; they will clear up whatever is going on with Locke's information, and will make people paranoid about a scum hand stfu. However, I think that the use of the investigation on me (and subsequent confirmation) will result in my being poisoned, chopped into bits and thrown into the sea for good measure. The scum will kill me the first chance they get, because having a

confirmed

doublevoter will make things far too difficult for them.

The fact is that there are (from your perspective, gentle reader) at least two scum factions I'm not a part of who will want to see me dead before endgame. Arguments that they'll hope townie paranoia will consume everybody for a mislynch in LyLo are flawed - it's too big a risk for scum, imo, to hope the town takes care of me. I knew when I said I wanted the job that I'd have to cope with smears and extra scrutiny, but if Benmage is right and the scum are hoping that the town say "wtf wtf the Hand lives", then isn't it natural to assume that the scum are currently trying to encourage that paranoia?

I think the investigation will be better used elsewhere; I for one have a candidate, which I will get to later.

We should dayvig early-ish, so we have the rest of today to discuss the connections, also.

3. Wagon analysis

Let's look at this point in the vote count:

Danakillsu (10) - Percy, Thor665, Mikujin, Axelrod, RichardGHP, xvart, LynchMePls, Vezokpiraka, Benmage, MagnaofIllusion

CSL (3) - Percy, Mina, Super Smash Bros. Fan
Super Smash Bros. Fan (6) - hasdgfas, I Doubt it, Rifka Viveka, MacavityLock, diddin
MacavityLock (1) - Locke Lamora
LynchMePls (1) -Unsight
Vezipiraka (1) - Danakillsu
Not voting to Lynch (1) - Drippereth

My theory is that the SSBF-pushers were more likely to be Lannisters, given it was their godfather on the chopping block. I raised this theory in the Kingsguard QT, and turns out I was right with I doubt it. I'm going to re-read the others ASAP. Further evidence that SSBF is not a Lannister, also.

4. Stabbing CSL

I said I'd explain once everyone had claimed, but as far as I can tell not everyone has claimed.

People who stabbed CSL:
-Percy
-Thor665
-LynchMePls
-Rifka Viveka
-MagnaofIllusion
-Mikujin
-Axelrod?

People who did not stab CSL:
-CSL
-danakillsu
-Benmage
-xvart?
-Locke Lamora
-vezokpiraka

People who haven't said whether they stabbed CSL or not (I think - my flick through the game was fast, please correct me if I'm wrong):
-MacavityLock
-Unsight
-Super Smash Bros. Fan
-diddin
-RichardGHP
-hasdgfas

As for my current case against CSL, it hasn't really moved on much from my case from mid D2. Still,

We kill dana today, you can have at me tomorrow.

Does this offer still stand?

Excuse me? Why didn't you hammer dana, since he's the closest to a lynch, and deadline is practically BREATHING DOWN OUR NECKS?!?

If dana is scum, I'd keep a close eye on you, Mina.

1) This is hilarious, because CSL never joined the dana mob. And yet even though deadline was BREATHING DOWN OUR NECKS, he didn't hammer in that post in which he berated me for hammering.

2) That last part makes him a possible Lannister who knows what dana will flip.

Struck out the bad argument.
Interesting interaction. In particular, I don't think CSL is likely Lannister, looking at his dana interaction.

Hmmm.

5. Vezokpiraka

The more I think about vezokpiraka, the less I like him. I've already noted just how bizarre it is to claim "next in line to the throne" as a motivation to be raised to Hand, especially when you're Meera Reed of all things. It makes absolutely no sense.

"Next in line to the throne" means one of the following:
{Tommen Baratheon, Stannis Baratheon, Renly Baratheon}
...depending on what camp you're in. Now Richard=Renly, Drippereth=Stannis, so that leaves vezokpiraka=Tommen.
(hasdgfas pointed out in the QT that it's actually Tommen, not Joffrey, who is "next in line" at the beginning of

A Clash of Kings

. Tommen is Lannister-aligned.)

My intent is to kill vezok unless town can explain to me a better kill option.

Strong agree. Go Grey Wind, get 'im, boy!

6. SSBF

Re-reading I doubt it, I find it nearly impossible for SSBF to be a Lannister.

I think he's a Greyjoy, as shown by his reluctance to vote Raivann and just his overall scumminess.

Strong agree. It also makes sense, given that he wagonned vezok so hard, and my current thoughts put vezok in the Lannister camp.

Also, note:

So what did Julien do?

Well, in his 8 posts, he went VERY hard after one person: SSBF.

I believe this strengthens the case against SSBF.

However, if SSBF flips town, I'd be willing to say that at least one of Mina or hasdgfas are very good candidates for Lannister. That's the only other reason I can see for why julienvonwolfe was killed so early - because he was a recruit to the Kingsguard.

I think that SSBF should be nominated to prove himself instead of lynched. Right now, pretty much everyone would be okay with lynching him.

He's also been the counterwagon to a Mafia godfather

, and has links to the other flipped godfather. So it would be a good idea to have his alignment settled once and for all, and then concentrate on the other players in the game. Not only has everyone taken a stand on him, but afterwards, we can forget about him and start a fresh set of mobs to analyze. If he flips scum at the end of the day, then he gets "hacked to pieces" that night. But if he flips town, then we save ourselves what was a guaranteed mislynch.

The bolded applies just as well to Mina as SSBF, and assumed the "hacked to pieces" killer would want to kill SSBF-scum, but overall this is goodposting.

Also, his "Tell me how many shots you have!" question is scummy to the maxxxxxx, and his first question of the day is just so weird.

@SSBF

: Why did you ask whether I can facilitate a double-lynch?

I think SSBF should be our target for Investigation. I think it will provide much more useful information to the town than an investigation on me.

Summary so far: vezok should be daykilled ASAP, SSBF should be investigated.

So now I'm going to look for two more people to vote for.

One is

Vote: CSL

, for reasons as above.

7. Benmage

I never voted for him to be hand.

This is the second time you've said this. Why is it important for you to establish this?

I'm looking over Dana's posts today. And I find myself mostly ambivilent about them. They are not overtly scummy per se, but at the same time, don't have that "townie shining through" quality about them either. Dana is clearly disgruntled, but whether disgruntled town or scum is kind of up in the air. I'm not moving my vote because I'd still be satisfied with this lynch today, I don't like the claim much and Dana's play around the Raivann lynch still looks bad, but I'm also going to try and see if there's anyone who I'd really like to lynch more before the deadline hits.

Kinda feeling similar sentiment with re-readin since the stabbing...But I'm uncertain.

Hmm. I have a stronger gut-scum read of Benmage than Axelrod in this exchange, but scum on both.

Since we can now agree that the reason is

to hide a potential scum read of mine

. How scummy of a move by me to withhold this do you think it is?

Just wanted to point out that this wasn't the point of the question LMP was asking you. It was that, as scum, not claiming who you stabbed prevents you from locking into a scumread, which is a good thing for scum - not that you might have a motive to hide an existant scumread.

I'm running out of time. I have to get back to my research, and this post is long enough. I'm going to re-read Benmage ASAP and get on the wagon analysis I was talking about.

8. Mina

(The only point I can hold against Percy is that other than Richard early on D1, I don't think there's been a single popular lynch he hasn't agreed with.)

I think my cases are good, and I make them popular
See, for example, the dana wagon.

I'm ambivalent about Mina. Need to re-read and re-think.

Current persons of interest:
CSL, vezokpiraka, Mina, hasdgfas, Benmage, Super Smash Bros. Fan.

I'm going to be super-busy this weekend; I will try to get something together on Saturday night, but if not that it will have to wait for Monday.