Last Will Mafia II (Over)

[RichardGHP]

By the way, don't even bother posting anything along the lines of:

"Oh dis guys scum bcuz he quit cuz he got voted for!!1!1!!"

[Xite91]

Mod: Replace me please

.

Otherwise the integrity of this game and myself are about to become compromised. One more smug comment out of Xite or Ythan would do it, I think. I don't want to be in a game where people think like that.

By the way, don't even bother posting anything along the lines of:

"Oh dis guys scum bcuz he quit cuz he got voted for!!1!1!!"

Uhm, can we just lynch him? It would make things a lot easier at this point.
Oh, and what's wrong with smug comments?

[Rhinox]

@ Rhinox: What does my role have to do with your perception of my alignment anyway?

Only that I'm reserving judgement until I have seen whether your role can be proven and whether the abilities are helping the town.



I'm OK with a Richard replacement. Too much focus on him and his intentional/obvious OMGUS. Can we now get back to lynching scum?

[Kmd4390]

I'd be ok with lynching richard.

[Xite91]

I think lynching him would be easier on the mod and better for town anyways, so lets do it?

[Twomz]

Twomz, I don't remember "A" happening. "B" is a straight up no. And I don't remember "C" either.

A)

Twomz vote on Richard way back on Page 10 seems overexplained for a quick "meh, let's do this" kind of vote.

B)

Twomz, I didn't mean your vote was disturbing. I meant that it's disturbing that nobody is voting you.

C)

Twomz's vote on CSL is horrible.

Only other specific thing I found you commented on was my vote on Nacho... you mean to tell me there's some OTHER reason besides the stuff you've been saying in your posts as to why you think I'm scum and you just haven't been saying what it is?

@ Rhinox: Whatever floats your boat man, I don't particularly care if you're suspicious of me or if you think my role might be mafia or not. I don't care if people think my role is town, I care if people think my play is town. (I'm trying dammit >.<)

On Richard lynch... I'd be fine with it, I'll wait til a votecount before I shift my vote over though, it's still 12 to lynch though right?

[Xite91]

raider8169

I was very amused by his first couple of posts. He seemed like someone who was using this game the way it was supposed to be used, for fun. I enjoyed how much he enjoyed it.

Post #12 I do dislike him saying that he isn’t going to try (aka bother getting reads on people this early) because it’s never too early to start, but I don’t think it was vote-worthy, like I said, he seems to just be enjoying the game.

Post #14 …Huh? Annoying isn’t really a reason to lynch someone, detrimental to town, yes. Annoying, not so much.
I agree on the second part though.
Nothing else really worth commenting on, though. Will do a vote analysis on him soon because I’m pretty sure he’s town.

Super Smash Bros. Fan
This is just in rvs, but it amused me that you asked me why I voted him out of policy and then asked Dia why alt-guessing was important.

Post #5 haha but you twisted your words, you even made them into someone elses words

Post #9 I’m pretty sure you don’t ever have to worry about an RVS quick hammer, people will back off and if not, it does give you some information going into the next day anyways, so it can be helpful.

What's preventing you from roleclaiming now? Sure it wouldn't be a good idea until Lylo/Mylo or when you're at L-1 and have to claim (With rare exceptions), but if you want to claim, feel free to.

Rolefishing at its finest.

Reads = information. And speak for yourself.

But the thing is, you didn't explain your scum reads. Therefore, we've gotten almost nothing out of it.

Knowing reads people get are important, especially when you see how they flip. Reasons are usually important on this too, but as long as they’re not pushing for a lynch, I’m okay with knowing suspicions without knowing where they come from, it gives me a reason to look back and go, well why do they think that? And townies are supposed to do that anyways.

THEN you decide to tunnel Dia in your next obscene wall post which is all i seem to see from you

If you were talking about that last post, you should have noticed that I made a response to EGL at the end of that paragraph.

I lol'd a little
Post #15 WIFOM from Raider? I didn’t see it.
Also,
“I'm actually seeing a decent case on raider8169 being formed. A few posts from his hasn't been very good and Rhinox's case against raider8169 is nice as well. I like the bandwagon on both raider8169 and Shattered Viewpoint. I'm still suspicious of Diacria, but his play is improving. Unvote

Shattered Viewpoint and raider8169 are scummy, but raider8169 is scummier. Vote: raider8169”
Whaaaaa?

Still don’t like your idea of splitting votes

Post #20 don’t like the way you jumped on this wagon. At all
Then next post you make a poor case on him and ride off of another one. Another don’t like.

Post #23 wait, wasn’t there still like 4 days till deadline when you made this post? Also, I’ve seen a bandwagon change that quick. But do you support lynching me, or was this just something you wanted to sit on the fence about?

Post #24 seriously easy way out with that list.

Post #25 tl;dr on that post a second time, I made my points on that though.
Okay, I’m done making points on him, he’s scum can we lynch him? kthnxbai

Okay, so this is ridiculously tedious and making me lose interest in this game, so the rest will just be analysis’ of each person. If you want details, then I’ll give them.

Twomz

Almost obviously claiming inventor, meh we’ll see. I like his bet, makes me believe that he believes in his cases a bit more. This could be either because he’s convinced there is scum there or he is scum with one other person that was on it, not sure which one yet. Was there an inventor in the first game? Were they scum or town? Although, we can’t base all mechanics for this game on that one, otherwise, why wouldn’t he just make them open?

RichardGHP

Just rereading him made me remember why I pushed so hard for his lynch. Yeah, he’s still scum. So how bout we lynch him too?

Holycon

Seems to be trying to pretend to scumhunt, but not really doing much of anything. I don’t like

her

much either

Vote analysis (mostly in regards to raider)

~there is no scene to post

@Mod, why was this in your post #5? Just wonderin

Shattered Viewpoint (4) -

nachomamma8

, danakillsu,

EGL

,

Chevre

Then
raider8169 (6) -

Charlie

,

rhinox

,

Amished

,

Pittbunny

,

Super Smash Bros. Fan

,

Chevre

raider8169 (7) -

Charlie

,

rhinox

,

Amished

,

pittbunny

,

Super Smash Bros. Fan

,

Chevre

,

nachomamma8

raider8169 (8) -

Charlie

,

Rhinox

,

Super Smash Bros. Fan

,

Chevre

,

nachomamma8

,

RichardGHP

,

CSL

,

Pittbunny

raider8169 (6) -

Charlie

,

Chevre

,

nachomamma8

,

RichardGHP

,

CSL

,

kmd4390

then
raider8169 (5) -

Charlier

,

Chevre

,

nachomamma8

,

RichardGHP

,

CSL

Shattered Viewpoint (4) - Ythan,

EGL

, Magua,

Super Smash Bros. Fan

Shattered Viewpoint (4) - Ythan,

EGL

, Magua,

Super Smash Bros. Fan

Shattered Viewpoint (12) - Ythan,

EGL

, Magua,

Super Smash Bros. Fan

,

Amished

,

Charlie

,

kmd4390

, holycon, towmz, animorpherv1,

pittbunny

, millar13

Okay, so the color coding is... interesting. I didn't give color for anyone that only showed up once or for people that only showed up in the same spot (ythan, magua) I was running outta colors lol

I don't like the way pitt jumped off and then back on the raider wagon, I get the joke on me, but it took him some time to go back, it was... odd considering the way the wagon was going when he got back on, then the jump onto the sv wagon made it worse. He seems like scum to me just with vote analysis

Would like to lynch at this point;

Richard
Rhinox
SSBF
Holycon
Pittbunny
animorpherv1
Charlie

I want to look more deeply into these based on voting

Amished
kmd4390
holycon
towmz
millar13

[holycon]

Xite: you decided what you think of CSL yet? Would you lynch him today, or should it wait for tomorrow again?

Holycon: you think going after repeatedly scummy players is beating a dead horse?

Rhinox: ok, that seems fair. Just wanted to see your reasoning on it.

No what i ment by that is I'm saying exactly what everyone else has been saying

[Jahudo]

This is normal Richard behavior. If he wants to make bizarre gambits and replace out even though he got the response he should have been looking for, that's his business. It's probably just a null tell because he's done it as town and is aware of that meta against him. Overall I haven't sensed anything scummy from him and I think he should just get in the game.

-------------------------------

@KMD: What changed between these two posts?

Raider wagon is meh, but it's better than CSL. Shattered and Richard wagons are better, but I don't think they can take off.

Vote Raider

Raider and csl are probtown.

How is the first quote true if at that time you could have made the Shattered wagon even with the Raider wagon?

@KMD:

@KMD: I got confused reading two of your posts.

Meh, I wanted to see how Shattered reacted to being "dead". I think he's town. Was gonna say this last post, but didn't know what you were on about, so I waited.

Here you reveal the kill was a gambit.

Rhinox brings up a good point about Dana. Why would you vote Shattered if he may be dying anyway.

But a few days later it seems like your keeping up the act that it still might be real. Why?

???

[holycon]

Holycon

Seems to be trying to pretend to scumhunt, but not really doing much of anything. I don’t like

her

much either

I"m pretending to scum hunt how so?

[Rhinox]

@ Rhinox: Whatever floats your boat man, I don't particularly care if you're suspicious of me or if you think my role might be mafia or not. I don't care if people think my role is town, I care if people think my play is town. (I'm trying dammit >.<)

Hey man, if you don't care what I have to say, don't ask me questions. You seem to have the wrong idea about how I view your role right now. I have a problem with Ythan calling your role town for "outguessing the mod" reasons, but that does not follow that I think your role is not town.

The question mark I have about you remains for 1 reason. You said:

unvote, vote: Shattered Viewpoint because I believe his continued involvement is detrimental to the town and from my experience with him in other games, it's not going to get better...

if we don't lynch him he'll just draw the (possible) vig kills away from mafia

(unless he is mafia... which I don't know if he's acts this way as either alignment or if he acts differently as scum, I have only had one game with him).

Which is a pretty scummy statement for more than 1 reason: (1) It is completely backwards thinking - it is the towns job to lynch scum, and it is a potential vigs job to take care of useless players that distract the town from finding scum. (2) It tells me you did not believe SV was scum, but you lynched him anyways.

I know, I know, we had the discussion about you voting SV to avoid a no-lynch at deadline.

If it weren't for your claim and the information it can potentially provide, you would be one of my top lynch choices today.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Mod: Replace me please.

Otherwise the integrity of this game and myself are about to become compromised. One more smug comment out of Xite or Ythan would do it, I think. I don't want to be in a game where people think like that.

Okay, wow, this

is

scummy. You basically rage-quit because Xite91 and Ythan were pressuring you in some way or form. They haven't broken any rules in this game yet, so there's really no excuse for you to replace out. At least Xite91 and CSL had legitimate reasons for asking to replace out (Even thought both stayed in the game). You on the other hand don't. If not for the fact that CSL and Charlie are so scummy, I would switch my vote now.

By the way, don't even bother posting anything along the lines of:

"Oh dis guys scum bcuz he quit cuz he got voted for!!1!1!!"

We have every right to complain about ****** reasons for a person to replace out like yours. And we have legit reasons for doing so.

---

What's preventing you from roleclaiming now? Sure it wouldn't be a good idea until Lylo/Mylo or when you're at L-1 and have to claim (With rare exceptions), but if you want to claim, feel free to.

Rolefishing at its finest.

Please explain why this is rolefishing. I never asked millar13 to claim at all, I just said that he could claim if he wanted to, just that I'd recommend doing it at L-1/massclaim at Mylo/Lylo. There was no scummy agenda for that quote.

I'm actually seeing a decent case on raider8169 being formed. A few posts from his hasn't been very good and Rhinox's case against raider8169 is nice as well. I like the bandwagon on both raider8169 and Shattered Viewpoint. I'm still suspicious of Diacria, but his play is improving. Unvote

Shattered Viewpoint and raider8169 are scummy, but raider8169 is scummier. Vote: raider8169

Whaaaaa?

Back in Day 1, I really didn't have much of solid reads, aside from my scum read on Diacria. When Diacria started to become more pro-town, I unvoted because I see no purpose of voting someone that is not your top suspect and I thought there were better suspects them him. That's when my read started to solidfy, as I did eventually vote Shattered Viewpoint, who was one of my first solid scum read.

Post #20 don’t like the way you jumped on this wagon. At all.

I had a stronger read on Shattered Viewpoint then CSL at the time. I didn't have much to base off of CSL but I felt there was a lot more meat to the Shattered Viewpoint's bandwagon.

Then next post you make a poor case on him and ride off of another one. Another don’t like.

Excuse me? ISO: 21 was not my case on Shattered Viewpoint. Heck, I even said that I could form a decent case against him and looking at my next post, I believe I did.

Post #23 wait, wasn’t there still like 4 days till deadline when you made this post? Also, I’ve seen a bandwagon change that quick. But do you support lynching me, or was this just something you wanted to sit on the fence about?

Obviously, I do not support your lynch, as I do have a town read on you. Also, me confusing twelve hours and four days for deadlines was an error in my part.

Post #24 seriously easy way out with that list.

This is coming from someone that suspect CSL, RichardGHP, and millar13. Out of the four suspects I've mentioned in ISO: 24, only millar13 is really an easy target, which is why I dropped the case on him. The other three have quality cases put against them that makes them worthy of being lynched. I haven't simply sheeped off other people's case either. I have made my own effort toward trying to get my top five suspects {Charlie, CSL, RichardGHP, animorpherv1, and Chronopie in order from most suspected to least suspected} lynched.

[Twomz]

I care what you have to say Rhinox, if I didn't I wouldn't be asking you about your opinions or trying to figure things out lol. But, I've always been of an opinion where role does not equal alignment and seeing someone else pushing the issue doesn't bother me at all, even if it accuses me of being scummy (I know I'm town and hopefully, again, my actions will prove it to others).

Again on SV... it doesn't matter if we lynch mafia or if they get NKed as long as they die, if we were going to waste a kill on SV, might as well be sooner rather than later and get some information on it /shrug. The second point... I didn't have a clue. He was acting the same as he did in Go Play in Traffic where he was town... but he was active lurking and not giving any content (great town meta huh?). The fact that he turned miller means that lynching him earlier rather than later was the better move (no wasted investigation), but that's hindsight speaking.

[Magua]

Mmmm. Drama.

RichardGHP: I'm not seeing what's setting you off. You act scummy. Several people call you on being scummy. You say it was a gambit. Several people continue to call you being scummy. You agree that the gambit gives no evidence of alignment. Several people continue to call you scummy. You ask to be replaced. Do I have that right?

That's pretty poor play, regardless of which side you're on. Still, I am inclined to believe that while scum might act so scummy as some sort of bizarre WIFOM, they wouldn't ragequit in response to it. Disinclined to lynch Richard today.

EGL: My initial response upon reading EGL's posts on pg 33 is "useless but townie." I have nothing to back this up with besides gut, and the fact that I think Charlie is scum, and Charlie is pushing on EGL.

Locke: Says he's reading and catching up on pg 34. Have seen two posts since then, with very little in the way of analysis. Would like a scum list.

Xite/Rhino: My god, it's annoying to read your replies to eachother. Long posts are fine, but please, for all that is good in this world, put your answers next to the respective questions. Reading these responses to eachother gives me a headache. Regardless of anything else, highly doubt Xite/Rhino are scumbuddies together. Could be 0/1 scum in there, but not 2.

Charlie: Overall, Charlie's responses to the cases against him have been....lacking. Charlie's cases against others have been likewise lacking (see post #834), and when asked to explain or elaborate on why he feels a way, the question is dodged. I remain very pro-Charlie-lynch.

Kmd: A series of one-line posts positing townreads and scumreads isn't useful at all, and I'd like some elaboration.

Chronopie: I started in on this because of Amished's repeated postings that Chronopie was scum. I've come to agree. Not enough to take my vote off of Charlie, but several good cases against Chronopie have been made. Addendum edit: Chronopie also blatantly fishes in #878.

My views haven't really changed:
Charlie should be lynched.
Millar should not be lynched, but should be vigged.
RichardGHP should not be lynched (at least, not today).
I would not be terribly upset at a CSL or Chronopie lynch, but I'm more confident in a Charlie lynch.

[Ythan]

Votes are also for applying pressure and providing information for the town. By not voting you're relieving pressure on those you suspect and denying information to the town.

I think I do alright applying pressure when I want to apply pressure, anyone who has ever been in a game with me before. I vote when something like two quotes down happens.

I have not observed this in practice but I would think that having a record of town suspects would achieve the same results as having a record of scum suspects from a player. It forces consistency and minimizes allowable opportunism.

How so? Making Town Lists, while not bad IMO, is more risky then making scum lists. By doing Town Lists, you are putting a person at a higher risk of being NK'd. And consider this, what if scum made your town list?

This overlaps 0% with what I was talking about. I'm talking about how a town list just like a scum list forces someone to take a stand and stick to it or face suspicion for waffling.

Pittbunny, you should believe that I was gambiting (and not backtracking) because I said so. As a townie I have no reason to make real OMGUS votes and attempt to cover it up afterwards. As scum, it would be a nail in the coffin. The only

logical

explanation is gambiting. The outcome of the gambit is not indicative of alignment.

vote RichardGHP

Neither Ythan nor anyone has the unequivocal right...

Richard. It's a game and you're scummy. /discussion

Mod: Replace me please

.

Otherwise the integrity of this game and myself are about to become compromised. One more smug comment out of Xite or Ythan would do it, I think. I don't want to be in a game where people think like that.

Cry me a fucking river. Responses to your play in this thread are entirely indicative of the quality of that play, and hardly over any line as far as I have seen.

I think lynching him would be easier on the mod and better for town anyways, so lets do it?

Note, review Xite re: Richard tomorrow.

[Kmd4390]

Twomz, ok, yeah I remember that now.

Jahudo, there's no change there. First quote is that I don't really like the raider wagon but its better than the one on csl. Third quote is where I say that they are probably both town. I don't see any change. And yeah, I wanted shattered to think he was really dying so I could get a better read.

Magua, the one liners come from times like now where I'm at work and pull my phone out on my 15 min break to catch up on mafia.

[Jahudo]

Jahudo, there's no change there. First quote is that I don't really like the raider wagon but its better than the one on csl. Third quote is where I say that they are probably both town. I don't see any change. And yeah, I wanted shattered to think he was really dying so I could get a better read.

But you could have voted Shattered instead of Raider. They were equally viable lynches, weren't they?

And you had already told Shattered that the gambit was fake, right? So did you think he forgot about it when you went back to saying it was real?

I'm not buying these current explanations.

unvote;
Vote: KMD

[LlamaFluff]

RichardGHP will be replaced.
Amished has been prodded.

[CSL]

Mod: Replace me please

.

Otherwise the integrity of this game and myself are about to become compromised. One more smug comment out of Xite or Ythan would do it, I think. I don't want to be in a game where people think like that.

How about this:

Vote: Richard

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Welcome back CSL. Unfortunently, your return was very lacking. Your most recent post was basically making a contentless vote on RichardGHP. No attempt to defend yourself, no attempt to comment on other things, not to mention your vote on RichardGHP was basically bandwagoning.

[Kmd4390]

Jahudo, I didn't feel like the shattered lynch could happen at the time. Also, you are misreading that last quote. The point was that at the time dana had posted, I hadn't said the kill was fake yet, so dana's post made no sense at the time it was made.

unvote, vote richard x2

[Twomz]

Richard at 6 votes?

[Xite91]

Holycon

Seems to be trying to pretend to scumhunt, but not really doing much of anything. I don’t like

her

much either

I"m pretending to scum hunt how so?

Read your ISO, you'll see what I mean, I'd post the whole case and all but my internet is really failing and I don't know how much time I have to type this up.

@Mod LA until my roommate shoves a foot up cox's ass

If not for the fact that CSL and Charlie are so scummy, I would switch my vote now.

placeholder... placeholder

What's preventing you from roleclaiming now? Sure it wouldn't be a good idea until Lylo/Mylo or when you're at L-1 and have to claim (With rare exceptions), but if you want to claim, feel free to.

Rolefishing at its finest.

Please explain why this is rolefishing.

You ask him why he didn't, then go, oh but you shouldn't, but really you can. You cover all your bases. And you still ask him to claim.

Post #20 don’t like the way you jumped on this wagon. At all.

I had a stronger read on Shattered Viewpoint then CSL at the time. I didn't have much to base off of CSL but I felt there was a lot more meat to the Shattered Viewpoint's bandwagon.

So do you follow the crowd all the time or just in mafia?

Then next post you make a poor case on him and ride off of another one. Another don’t like.

Excuse me? ISO: 21 was not my case on Shattered Viewpoint. Heck, I even said that I could form a decent case against him and looking at my next post, I believe I did.

Didn't see it, which might be explained if it was the one i did the tl;dr in which case I already fought with you on that one,

Post #23 wait, wasn't there still like 4 days till deadline when you made this post? Also, I’ve seen a bandwagon change that quick. But do you support lynching me, or was this just something you wanted to sit on the fence about?

Obviously, I do not support your lynch, as I do have a town read on you. Also, me confusing twelve hours and four days for deadlines was an error in my part.

then why didn't you correct it? You saying that caused a lot of people to rush unnecessarily and lost town information IMHO

Post #24 seriously easy way out with that list.

This is coming from someone that suspect CSL, RichardGHP, and millar13. Out of the four suspects I've mentioned in ISO: 24, only millar13 is really an easy target, which is why I dropped the case on him. The other three have quality cases put against them that makes them worthy of being lynched. I haven't simply sheeped off other people's case either. I have made my own effort toward trying to get my top five suspects {Charlie, CSL, RichardGHP, animorpherv1, and Chronopie in order from most suspected to least suspected} lynched.

Yeah, but it seems to me like you don't suspect someone until there's already a decent amount of suspicion on them.

[millar13]

Unvote

[Amished]

Stupid life being absolutely out of control. I will get a big post up tomorrow night.