Newbie 980 ~ Game Over

[jmurph3]

Just so you knowing thinking Haylen @ scum

Does this mean you think Haylen's scum? I can't understand what you're saying there.

I wont vote till a few days before the deadline and I wont change my vote after that so any self-defense(Mainly Jmurph/Haylen just because you have most votes) now thanks . (And number of votes won't matter. I may be hammering or I might be putting someone on L-4)

What self-defense would you want? I've posted and linked to my defense for the "case" against me multiple times. I'm not posting it again here.

Also, you should

not

hammer it's it multiple days before deadline. On the first day, it's much better to let things play out because chances are there will be more information that comes out closer to deadline. If you're worried about a no-lynch, you probably shouldn't be, as there's enough townies at this point to hopefully prevent that. Also, between now and then the person with the most votes might drastically change. Is there a reason why you're planning on doing this? Are you not going to be at your computer leading up to the deadline?

[Nexus]

Kov is really confusing me. They're a newbie, yet they seem to know what they're talking about. They also seem to have spectacularly changed tack, from voting really quickly, to now saying that they aren't going to do that.

I'm not sure if it's the fact that they are a newbie, or that they're scum, but it's suspicious to me.

[CSL]

The 20x EXP in Gears 2 Vote Count

Haylen (3) a2rudeboy, Mr. Flay, Nexus

jmurph3 (2) Beefster, Zajnet

Nexus (1) Earlder1
Mr. Flay (1) Haylen


Not Voting: Kov, jmurph3

---

Deadline and Lynch info

Currently set for Thursday, July 29th, at 7:00pm EST

There are NINE alive, so FIVE votes on a player will lynch.

Haylen is currently at L-2

V/LA's and Prods

Mr. Flay is on a perpetual V/LA status

Etc.

[Kov]

I'm mixing things up why I assume predictable play would make it easy for the Mafia to try and lynch you/ portray you as scumy

[a2rudeboy]

So, I just did a quick iso on Kov. Things do seem pretty scummy here. There isn't really much content to the posts as a whole, usually either defending/attempting to defend the erratic voting process, or kind of flippant non game related comments ("quick and dirty, that's the way i like it" "i wouldnt have that level of dedication" "i hate this game" etc). They seem to be doing a pretty good job of posting enough to avoid the lurker tag, but not really adding anything to the game when they do post. Also, something really really rubbed me wrong about the comment of "I'm going to hold my vote, and once i vote, I won't change." Other people feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but I can't possibly see where someone being unwilling to change their vote could come across any way other than scum.

@jmurph- You may have just missed this post earlier, but I was asking where you saw evidence of my buddying with Kov? Also, I realise you stated earlier that your vote for Kov was mainly trying to get him to talk and get info from him. Since the time you took your vote off, I don't think he's gotten anything but scummier. Thoughts?

Since my initial doubts to Kov were only made worse:

unvote haylen.

vote:kov

[jmurph3]

@a2rudeboy: perhaps buddying wasn't the right word. More like coaching, I guess. You looked at everything he'd done (up until this most recent post of yours) and then dismissed it as newbie or twisted it in a way to make it look innocent, giving suggestions along the way for what you thought he meant.

While I agree that Kov's statement of not changing his vote, etc. is very weird, I'm thinking it's just another newb mistake (hopefully), and, since he hasn't actually followed through with his plan and done what he's threatened to, I see no need to vote him...yet. I've tabled my vote on him for the time being, but if he continues on the course he's laid out, I will have no choice but to vote for him.

[Zajnet]

Other people feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but I can't possibly see where someone being unwilling to change their vote could come across any way other than scum.

He comes across as newb to me. Whether that is newb town or newb scum I'll have to figure out.

[jmurph3]

@a2rudeboy: specific examples of where I saw this happening is here and here

@Zaj: while I don't disagree that a lot of what he's doing are newb mistakes, he's also being exceedingly anti-town. This doesn't mean he's scum, but if he doesn't change his tune, it might be better for town's sake to policy lynch him rather than to continue letting him hurt town.

[a2rudeboy]

@jmurph- Thanks. Yes, I can see where that comes across as being coaching to an extent. I think it was more of me voicing my own thought process out loud. Something about your post that bothered me a little bit though, is you said you hoped it was just another newbie mistake. I'm not sure why you would say this...surely any mistake that may be a scum slip is good for the town, no?? Unless it's a scum partner. In which case, you seem to be doing a bit of the apologizing you criticized me of yourself.

Kov came in for BagSquad. Now there's not much to analyze him, but only four posts. I know some of us had our doubts pre-replacement, as BS was pretty much a lurker who posted a couple of times, no real content, odd voting. So, if we take the role as it has been played so far, both incarnations have come under thoughts of being scummy, haven't really posted a whole lot contributing. This could be as easily explained as two newbs, but it seems it's at least a pretty good chance that it could be explained better by two inexperienced newbscum.

[jmurph3]

@a2rudeboy: haha, no my "hopefully" wasn't meant to be that way. I meant it in more of a "hopefully - because I don't like when scum are so blatantly obvious (makes the game less fun, IMO)" way. Obviously scum slips are great for town...I just prefer them to be subtle, rather than neon signs proclaiming "I AM SCUM LYNCH ME." Hope that clears up any confusion.

And I do understand what you mean by voicing your thought process out loud, it just seemed like you were carrying it forward to an unnecessary point. For example you could say, "I'm getting more of a newb vibe from him" instead of "I'm getting a newb vibe from him and I think it's because he doesn't understand why he's doing it", which implies that he should stop (the coaching part of the statement). And now that I explained that, I realize that this is how my previous statement is coming across, though with one important difference: I used my statement to say that I'm not voting yet, but could in the future, whereas yours was more of a I'm not voting now, nor am I going to. Does that make sense at all?

[Kov]

"quick and dirty, that's the way i like it" "i wouldnt have that level of dedication" "i hate this game" ]

Those comments were jokes why because of your inability to notice a double post, so i deliberately posted fluff(infact you retracted an FOS after you realised your mistake, so why bring it up again?).
Also don't misquote I said "That is some amount of dedication" That is completely different! Can you not copy and paste or was that deliberate to make me seem scummy?
If you ISO you need to look at your own posts in response! OOC you can make anything seem scummy.

Also don't extract quotes like that.
Ill put them in context for everyone else :

PS. Quick and Dirty Thats the way i like it.... wait WHAT?

Also IMO, It was a good graph.

That my friend is "fluff" (I think....)

And the other was:

I hate this game

Obviously j/k's, Right?

I think if you go back to page 8 and re-read you'll see how you have taken these silly jokes far too seriously. And I hope someone got those jokes otherwise ill just be a morbid townie and that is not fun.

You seem pro-town so i won't vote you but to me you either aren't paying enough attention or you just slipped up as scum.

[a2rudeboy]

@Kov- I wasn't directly quoting, i was paraphrasing. If you think about it in the context of my larger point (mostly fluff, joking posts) there isn't much difference between "That is some level of dedication" and "I wouldn't have that level of dedication". Yes, we could split hairs here and say the latter tries to portray you in a more negative light because it assumes you wouldn't care enough about the game to do something like that. It wasn't the point here. And yes, I know they were jokes. But you've posted about 20 times if i recall, and sure a couple of jokes are alright, but when you aren't putting down much content to begin with, it makes me wonder.

Actually, if you read a little more closely (like you are accusing me of not doing) what i said was:

First off, kov- i didn't notice you're post previous to the one where you mostly quoted haylen. I'd take the FoS off for making that mistake (because you did make a defense and not just post fluff)

but, wanting to quick lynch is always a rather hard line maneuver which i cannot see defending unless we have pretty hard evidence on Nexus

.

And then went on to explain a bit more why I wasn't taking off the FoS.

@jmurph- I'm still not quite following you on the point of saying mine was a "I'm not voting now or am I going to". If it's in reference to me talking about Kov, please show the examples (I cannot find them in either of the two posts you referenced earlier). If this is in reference to my statement of unwillingness to hammer dsis or vote anyone i dont have suspicions for just on the basis of the town getting a lynch, I still refuse to see how that refers to me. Or are you possibly referring to what Kov said in regards of not changing his vote? I'm confused on this point.

Oh, and to answer your earlier question. True, I stated I am not a supporter of lynching solely to lynch near the deadline. I did say I would consider that if it was Earl, because, I dont want to see another spot get replaced in the game. On top of that, I said i would support lynches if i found the person to be scummy, and i do have my suspicions about Earl.

[Beefster]

I just glazed over Kov. He actually seems pretty townie to me. Yeah, he

looks

scummy, but that doesn't mean he's scum. The way he defends himself comes off more as town than scum.

Looking back at Haylen, I am convinced that she's scum. She's using her "read" on millar to defend herself, posting walls of fluff, and using other trickery pointed out by Mr. Flay.

UNVOTE: jmurph3
VOTE: Haylen

Please read the top of page 10.

[Haylen]

Hang on, what? Did you READ my walls? Did you not notice that Flay seemed to say they were pretty contentful? Read them again and point out 10 pieces of fluff from my posts, I dare you. I didn't use my read on millar to defend myself, I was ASKED about my read on millar so I answered.

Please stop twisting my words if you're town. It's incredibly rude.

[Beefster]

I feel that you may have lied about your millar read to try to prove yourself to be a townie. That's a defense, more or less.

Hmm. I guess I got a little too excited on that last post. They're just walls, fundamentally. (which isn't a scumtell) Sometimes I get too caught up in having a good number of reasons.

[Earlder1]

Allo

@ Flay
I was just busy on Monday so I didn't get a chance to check in. It's not a schedule or anything, I just happened to not be available that day.

I really don't like Haylen's 242. I think it is pretty unfounded, at least the part regarding the suspicions of Flay. I think Flay's posts have been perfectly logical and sound, and I haven't noticed any reaching statements. I also was not sure what exactly was meant when Haylen said that she (he?) knew Millar's role. Haylen gets a little scummier in my book from this.

Reagarding RudeBoy's suspicions of Kov, I can see some of the points that are made, but Kov is a newb, and in that context, he may not be so scummy. I'll have to look back into him in more detail, but for now I'm pretty unsure. I get town vibes from Rudeboy.

Zaj, I think you need to post a bit more. Your one sentence since I last posted is not much...

As much as I really hated Nexus' defense, I can help but see Haylen as scummy. My vote will remain on Nexus but I would be fine with voting Haylen as well. I don't see anyone else (besides Nexus and Haylen) that I get obvious scum vibes from, so I guess I'll leave it at that.

[Zajnet]

Zaj, I think you need to post a bit more. Your one sentence since I last posted is not much...

I've been reading along, and I don't really see much to add about. I still think Nexus v Haylen is probably town v town, but as of late Haylen has been much more scummy of the two. I'm pretty sure Nexus is town. a2rudeboy and jmurph are also high on my scumlist.

[Mr. Flay]

Nexus has been really uncharacteristically silent since the focus came off.

[Beefster]

Hmm. Good Observation. I'll take a better look at that tomorrow. I'd rather not right now, or I'd fall asleep.

[Nexus]

Sorry. I'm slightly worried about the way that Haylen's reaction to people calling her scum, and I don't want to say anything that's going to make her get any worse. I've already placed my vote, and, whilst I mentioned that I see Kov as slightly scummy, I don't really have much else to say.

I was even more talkative because I needed to get the focus away from me, because it was heading for a town lynch, and nobody wanted that.

Haylen is getting angry about people twisting her words, but I always thought that was the nature of the game? Especially if you're scum, you want to make it seem like town are scum, and so get lynched. This could be proof that she's town, or proof that she's scum, because she knows the best way to defend herself.

I've not looked at her previous games, because I believe that if you act one way in one, it doesn't mean you're going to act the same way somewhere else.

Oh, and I've just thought: she put FoS on herself when she came in. That threw me initially, and I imagine threw a couple of other people. Surely a townie wouldn't FoS herself? I think it might've been an attempt at making us think she was town, and was trying to stimulate discussion. I'm struggling to explain my reasoning, but I think it might've been a scum bluff.

[jmurph3]

Oh, and I've just thought: she put FoS on herself when she came in. That threw me initially, and I imagine threw a couple of other people. Surely a townie wouldn't FoS herself? I think it might've been an attempt at making us think she was town, and was trying to stimulate discussion. I'm struggling to explain my reasoning, but I think it might've been a scum bluff.

Honestly, this play by Haylen doesn't surprise me, nor did it throw me. I've seen it done by both scum and town, so I consider it a newb tell. It is an attempt to make you think she is town. She's basically acknowledging that the slot she was replacing into is scummy but that doesn't mean that she is.

Personally, I'm going back and forth on Haylen. I really don't like her OMGUS vote on Mr. Flay, which is basically what it is, as her whole case on him boils down to not liking his case on her. I feel like Haylen's a better player than this, which is why I feel that her getting sucked into an OMGUS vote reeks of scum desperation.

At the same time, some of the problems that people are seeing as scummy of Haylen are, IMO, nulltells. WoTs, for instance, which Beefster called out as scummy, or her read on millar, or even just her semi-erratic behavior/posting.

Personally, looking at what's happening thus far in the game, it looks like a lot of people are being very opportunistic on the Haylen wagon. Nexus, you haven't posted a real case on Haylen yet (though your latest post is better). I'd like to see that (preferably with something other than "I read what other people say and agree", which was your first post). Beefster, same for you. You post one line saying "Kov seems like town" and another saying "Haylen seems like scum". I'd like some reasoning beyond Mr. Flay's case.

[Nexus]

I don't see the point in repeating what has already been said, though. Sorry.

Her erratic behaviour is what the biggest problem is, it's making it difficult to pinpoint what role she has. That in itself could be a play, but I don't think it is. However, when I was challenged for getting overly emotional, I can't remember who by, I tried to explain that it was because I was a newbie. However, Haylen's not, so I can't really see any reasoning for her to be getting so emotionally involved-it's a game...

So yeah, erratic behaviour, on top of the posting of WoTs which really haven't been that useful, perhaps there is also a little OMGUS there, because I did feel angry that she had almost led a lynch on me. However, that passed quickly, and the other reasons all added up to reinforce my vote.

[Beefster]

jmurph: I have more reasoning. I mentioned quite a bit of it earlier, but you seem to want a recap, so...
-The first thing that makes me wary was asking for a scum/town list
-Then, later, she denied it.
-Potentially lying about her read on millar to 'prove' her innocence.
-I wonder why she only shot the question about millar suspicion with regards to her.
-Misleading activity graphs.
-I'm not sure what to think of her using dyslexia (I'm fine with the dyslexia part) to defend herself. I have some of the same problems, but that doesn't stop me from glazing over my posts before posting them. On the other hand, it could be a town tell because she isn't terribly worried about what she posts.
-Defends herself with her meta
-Whines about people twisting her words. Not sure what to think of this.
-OMGUS on Mr. Flay

As for Nexus: I'm wary about his response after Mr. Flay made the observation. It reeks of WIFOM, as do many of his other posts.

[Nexus]

Having read the WIFOM explanation on the wiki, I still don't understand. Can someone explain it in laymans terms, please?

Another reason why I kept quiet is I keep making mistakes, meaning people keep thinking I'm mafia...

[Haylen]

Circular Logic. For example:

Player A: I never do this as town!
Player B: Ah, dont you.
Player C: But then you could be playing up to your town meta and be scum, but then you could be town, but then you might be scum thinking we'll call you out on it being your town meta and then we'll go through your games and find out you're telling the truth, but then you might know we're going to do that and just be playing up to your town meta, but then *head explodes*

I could've picked a better example.