Open 231: My Name is Earl (Game Over)

[TheButtonmen]

Vote: NoCase

[XScorpion]

'Dunno?' What kind of stupid answer is that? It sounds to me like you are just hopping on AV's bandwagon without actually thinking.

[XScorpion]

Vote: NoCase

Why?

[AurorusVox]

XS is also the only player, other than Beefster himself, to have never voted for Beefster.

Why does this make me scummy?

It's not just that. It's that in combination with everything else I said about Beefster's interactions with you.

[Budja]

I wrote this up over night:
---

-Scum picks-
d3x
AurorusVox

-Null Pick-
ConfidAnon - Xite91 - hammered Beefy, but other interaction not great

-Town pick-
XScorpion - insanely stubborn - could be scum but I don't feel it.

-Town based on Beefster interaction-
TheButtonmen - prob town 3rd vote on Beefster.
Rhinox - cast L-1 vote, claim reaction.
nocase - vote revived Beefster lynch
---

Working largely with elimination here.

vote: d3x

[XScorpion]

It's not just that. It's that in combination with everything else I said about Beefster's interactions with you.

So basically, I haven't actually been scummy, I've simply been blessed by a scum's defense, and I didn't rush to lynch him as hastily as everyone else. OK.

[d3x]

Based on what went down at the end of yesterday, I'm most curious about Budja's "stagnation" switch, AV's final post of the Day, ConA's Hammer then move on nocase, and The Buttonmen's whole existence.

@ConA- Do you figure nocase's position on the Beefy Lynch just to be bussing?

[d3x]

And apparently I forgot to Vote.

VOTE: XScorpion

[Budja]

Scorpian did not react to the claim like a scum-buddy.
He play throughout had been attention-grabbing.
He's not likely to be scum.

[Rhinox]

@ConfidAnon and Rhinox: Why do you not think I'm scum with Beefster?

Well, I haven't completely ruled you out yet. There are some compelling points linking you and Beefster.

Cathart/buttonman: I'd like to see more from buttonman in general, but cathart was voting beefy early, and never unvoted. Leaning Town.

Budja: I agree with his current reads, for the most part. Had a gut town read on him when I replaced in. Was strongly for a beefy lynch all D1 - switched to adrienC to avoid stagnation, switched right back after I replaced in. Asked for a hammer before claim - town points. Leaning Town on Budja.

nocase: gut town read upon me replacing in. Agree with budja about him reviving the beefy wagon, plus Beefster vs. nocase (circa post #295) does not feel like scum vs. scum mutual bussing/distancing. Leaning Town.

ConfidAnon: 100% town. There is no scum setup where the scum inherintly know whether a cop exists. You don't hammer your fake claiming scum partner without waiting for a CC. No CC means your scum partner lives. If you get a CC, you rejoice because you outed the cop. Quickly hammering was the worst thing that could have happened for the remaining scum.

d3x: voted and unvoted beefy in the first half of day 1. Switched focus elsewhere, then was called out for forgetting about beefy. From that point on, was pretty much "ok with either beefy or xscorp lynch", but vote and conversation always remained on XS. Potential scum for early distancing, and trying to lead a competing wagon while being "ok with a beefy lynch".

AV: Early on, sided with beefster over budja when they had cases on each other. (iso 9, 14). Iso 21: wishy-washy about beefy - "I didn't get why people found beefy scummy, I had a neutral vibe" followed by "then I found this, Major FOS". Didn't vote beefy b/c he didn't want to put him at L-1. Iso 24: top suspect is now beefy, voted beefy to put him at L-2 after d3x unvoted. Iso: 33 switched vote to Xscorp. Iso 37: more wishywashy-ness on beefster - "I think his last post was ok/I'm still wondering if there's a XS/Beefy scum team". Questioned me about putting beefy at L-1 (iso46). Iso 49: ok with hammering, wanted to hear claim first. Iso 50: Doesn't believe claim. Glad he waited to hammer. Wonder's if he's scum looking for a CC.

Potential scum for being wishy-washy towards beefy on more than 1 occasion. Comments before lynch lead me to believe he could be the scum encouraging a CC: OK with hammering but wanted to hear claim, didn't believe claim but didn't hammer or threaten to hammer or didn't reaffirm whether he would still be willing to hammer. Instead, fencesitting: might be the real cop/might be scum fishing for a CC.

XS: Early comments about beefster potentially coaching and thinking its scummy, but not enought to vote beefy because it was the RVS. Brings up meta reasons for not lynching beefy (iso 26), but claims its not his responsibility to defend others (iso30). Doesn't care if beefy lives or dies because no one agrees with what he's saying (iso42). A few posts follow where Xscorp claims to not have a read on beefy. Iso50: offers to lynch beefy today if Xite can be lynched tomorrow. iso51: Hasn't been paying attention to beefy because its not his job to do all the town's scumhunting. Claim reaction: "Holy shit", followed by believing him and questioning me if I still thought we should lynch him. Post hammer: No CC right away, wouldn't be necessary until LyLo.

XS could go either way. On one hand, we have lots of content that could be identified as attempted distancing - the no-read stuff, the meta defense, the early accusation. On the other hand, offering to help lynch beefy first if he can lynch xite tomorrow seems more town than if he'd have offered the other way around. His reaction to beefy's claim doesn't exactly scream townie to me, but it doesn't say scum either. I believe I called him out on his first reaction correctly here. He did then give a concrete response that he believed the claim. His response after the hammer about waiting for a CC would seem town, but its null because it happened after the hammer. If he'd have made iso86 before the hammer such as instead of iso 85, I wouldn't even have to question XS's allignment, I'd strongly believe him to be town. But I also agree with budja that XS has seemed to try to stay in the spotlight and remain the center of attention, which doesn't seem scummy. That is why XS is only my 3rd choice for scum.

Beefster iso:

RVS vote: AdrienC (Me)
First Serious vote: Budja (iso3)
Questions Col.Cathart for reasons for voting him (iso 5)
Iso6: Claims meta on XS, but that its invalid since the game is in progress. Continues attack on budja/supports XS accusations of budja. FoS's Xite for her suggestion to massclaim/claim earls.
Iso7: constinues to question budja.
Iso8: Calls XS wonky, but affirms he has seen wonky VT's. Fos on d3x.
Iso10: Calls AdrienC scummy for unvoting him. Sticks to Budja vote because budja is hiding something.
Iso11: switches vote to nocase with a case, fos's Xscorp claims his play is going from wonky to scummy (no reasoning)
Iso12: Post summary, still doesn't like nocase or budja, but agree's with nocase points against Xscorp.
Iso13: Big case against nocase
Iso14: Confirm vote nocase for hypocrisy
Iso15: Asks budja for reasons why budja is voting him.

(1) Budja and nocase are definitely not beefy's scum partner.
(2) Players beefy voted at some point in the game: AdrienC(Rhinox), Budja, nocase
Players beefy FoS'd or called scummy: Xite(ConfidAnon), d3x, xscorp, AdrienC
Players questioned in a negative light, but not fos'd or voted: Cathart/buttonman
Players completely ignored: AV

Final thoughts: I think its saying something that Beefy voted, suspected, or questioned everyone in the game at least once, accept for AV. That is noteable because beefy was always demanding reasons or responded whenever someone suspected him or voted him, and beefy didn't even respond at all when AV called him his top suspect and voted. I think that points to a solid connection between the 2, and AV is scum #2. d3x and xscorp remain possibilities for receiving FoS's but never votes. Beefy's iso doesn't change my view of buttonman - cathart wasn't very active most of the day, and neither was buttonman after he replaced in. I suspect had cathart been more active, he would have been suspected or voted by beefy, rather than just questioned once and forgotten about. So I'm still leaning town on button. Budja and Nocase move into the definitely town category right behind Confinadroj.

vote: AurorusVox

Very confident about this.

[Budja]

^ agree with all of this. Moving Confid to town.

unvote, vote Aurorus

[Scott Brosius]

Vote Count #12

AurorusVox (2) - Rhinox, Budja
Budja (0) -
ConfidAnon (0) -
d3x (0) -
nocase (2) - ConfidAnon, TheButtonmen
Rhinox (0) -
TheButtonmen (0) -
XScorpion (3) - AurorusVox, nocase, d3x

Not Voting (1)- XScorpion

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Deadline is August 12, at 11am EDT.

[AurorusVox]

AV: Early on, sided with beefster over budja when they had cases on each other. (iso 9, 14).

I sided with Beefster because he actually had a case, whereas Budja just voted without reasons.

Iso 21: wishy-washy about beefy - "I didn't get why people found beefy scummy, I had a neutral vibe" followed by "then I found this, Major FOS".

I was saying that

up until that point

I hadn't thought him to be that scummy. My opinion changed; so I don't think you can say it's wishy-washy, because I was expressing that change, not trying to say both at once.

Didn't vote beefy b/c he didn't want to put him at L-1. Iso 24: top suspect is now beefy, voted beefy to put him at L-2 after d3x unvoted.

I didn't want to put him at L-1 because I was going to be V/LA. Would you prefer I had put him at hammer distance and then disappeared for a few days?

Iso: 33 switched vote to Xscorp. Iso 37: more wishywashy-ness on beefster - "I think his last post was ok/I'm still wondering if there's a XS/Beefy scum team". Questioned me about putting beefy at L-1 (iso46).

I questioned your L-1 because you hadn't supplied any reasons. L-1 votes should have at least some evidence to them.

Iso 49: ok with hammering, wanted to hear claim first. Iso 50: Doesn't believe claim. Glad he waited to hammer. Wonder's if he's scum looking for a CC.

Potential scum for being wishy-washy towards beefy on more than 1 occasion. Comments before lynch lead me to believe he could be the scum encouraging a CC: OK with hammering but wanted to hear claim, didn't believe claim but didn't hammer or threaten to hammer or didn't reaffirm whether he would still be willing to hammer. Instead, fencesitting: might be the real cop/might be scum fishing for a CC.

In my experience, it's best to let the L-1 claim. And in my experience it's best to at least give the person in question a chance to back their claim up - i.e., point to breadcrumbing and so on. I am still glad that I didn't hammer him straight away, because

if

he had been cop, that would have been a stupid move to make. I would have hammered, and would have had the chance to prove that, but after Beefster had had a chance to defend himself.

Do you disagree that waiting for a claim, or letting the claim share his reasons, is what should have happened?

[nocase]

'Dunno?' What kind of stupid answer is that? It sounds to me like you are just hopping on AV's bandwagon without actually thinking.

god, i don't know. has it crossed your mind that i might not be voting you for that reason? or have you already forgotten my day one suspicion of you? i realize such complex mental exercise may be a shred too difficult for you.

[XScorpion]

You know you could have at least TRIED to be helpful to town by giving just a one sentence (at least!) explanation for your vote other than just throwing it out there.

Just to be clear:
AV is voting me because Beefster defended me and I didn't lynch him.
Nocase is voting me because he's suspicious of me from day 1 (?)
D3x is voting me for the same reason (I suspect)

Now let's suppose that today ends, I get lynched, and I flip town. Who else do the three of you think could be scum? Rhinox at least gave his top 3 suspects, can you as well, with reasoning (I know the latter might be hard to do, but bear with me)?

[ConfidAnon]

nocase, sorry, I should probably go back and read the thread, I totally did not realize you were voting him prior to voting Beefster. I didn't spend my time during the night phase thinking about this game much.

Don't worry, I'll try to reread and have a clearer mind about how this game has gone. Of course, when I need time, I happen to get busier, but I will make this happen soon. Considering my reasoning so far today has been horrible, I'll go ahead and unvote now.

Unvote, Vote: d3x

[AurorusVox]

Now let's suppose that today ends, I get lynched, and I flip town. Who else do the three of you think could be scum? Rhinox at least gave his top 3 suspects, can you as well, with reasoning (I know the latter might be hard to do, but bear with me)?

I will scumhunt elsewhere, but I wanted to make sure to get my initial suspicions aired at the start of the day. I'm planning on doing a re-read later today or tomorrow when I get some free time.

[nocase]

You know you could have at least TRIED to be helpful to town by giving just a one sentence (at least!) explanation for your vote other than just throwing it out there.

sure.

i think you're scum. it's partly a gut read, and it's partly due to connections between you and beef. there are a couple of other players who interest me but for all intents and purposes you're at the top of the shelf; they don't warrant discourse as things stand.

now please make some contribution other than repetitive vitriolic defenses.

[Budja]

Aurorus > d3x >>> Xscorpian.

read Rhinox's post.

[nocase]

i read it. switch scorp and vox.

[nocase]

hey button, where's that post?

[nocase]

can somebody please wax philosophical about the apparent lack of scum hunting done by xscorpion this game?

[XScorpion]

Do you think you've done more scumhunting than me? If so, why?
Contribution? How about this: I honestly have no clue who is scum, since voting for AV/d3x would just be a biased OMGUS vote, not to mention that I can't exactly use the argument that they didn't vote Beefster as a case for scumminess. Add on the fact that my picks for scum yesterday (Xite and Budja) are almost certainly town (less Budja than Confid), and I haven't got any idea what to do.

[XScorpion]

BTW: Any particular reason you think AV is far less likely to be scum than d3x?

[AurorusVox]

Re-reading d3x, he did a fair share of scumhunting yesterday, but like Rhinox says, he did keep saying he'd be happy to vote for Beefster without actually doing it. But I'm also interested in something he brought up against XS;

XS had said this - "Beefster got lynched on day 1 in an ongoing game as town for the same reasons you guys are attacking him now."

@XS

XS, you used meta to call him town, and you said you believed his claim. Why do you think he was able to fool you?