Mini 1005: Mafiaphobes! (Game over)

[xvart]

I am open to switching over to quadz but I am going to

request a vote count

to see where we are right now. There is a decent case on quadz but I'm not convinced he is as obv scum as some of you seem to be.

And maybe I haven't been clear enough or I have left the case spread over to such a large time frame, but I implore you to read it again. Why do you think quadz hasn't posted in this game? Why is he completely ignoring me (other than menial unrelated junk)? He's scum. He's busted. There's nothing he can do. He also realizes that I've probably pegged down his partners and he can't really say anything or do anything without incriminating them more. The case on quadz is so good I'm surprised I haven't convinced him to vote himself yet. I'm not positive what the vote count on diddin is at this point (I think with your vote he now has one vote), but quadz is at L-2. You should switch your vote to quadz so we can get a fake claim and then be done with this day. Diddin can be lynched D-2 or D-3.

xvart.

[xvart]

EBWOP: Sorry, in my haste I forgot to copy and paste this above my previous post.

The key point of your case is quadz lynch preferences, I'm not sure why you think this is as strong as you seem to be making it. For one, it is day one, it doesn't take much to push someone to the top of my suspect list over another. I still think the fact quadz voted SSBF and then both of them ignoring the vote afterward is stronger than your interpretation of his top three suspects.

It's not just that, as I have said. Look at the build up to that point; the conversation between quadz and I building up to that point. Obviously there is more to my case, and I feel I've been harping on this ever since the beginning of the game and it has only gotten better and better. The fact that nobody is looking or commenting on it until I practically forced people to is absolutely mind blowing.

xvart.

[Humble Poirot]

fast post with votecount. I'll have more time later tonight.
-------------------

Unofficial Vote count 1.9 by Humble Poirot.

Oso (0)
Tasky (0)
KageLord (0)
Humble Poirot (1) jayfl383
q21 (0)
jayfl383 (0)
xvart (0)
quadz08 (5) Humble Poirot, xvart, vezokpiraka, q21, Oso.
diddin (1) Sotty7
vezokpiraka (3) Tasky, KageLord, Super Smash Bros. Fan
Sotty7 (0)
Super Smash Bros. Fan (2) diddin, quadz08

Not voting:

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Deadline is July 26, 10:30 AM (GMT + 10:00).

aprox 58 hours to go.

------------------
PREVIEW EDIT:

Humble, your case on quadz is pretty good. He has been wishy washy and slow to commit, very timid to make any kind of waves. It is suspicious, I agree.

IMPORTANT

Homework: search quadz in ISO and look for the names Kage and vezo. Vezo is voted by quadz after agreeing with Kagelord. Vezo is repeatedly signaled as the scummiest person so far until ISO 21 where he votes against SSBF (causing a 3-3 tie vezok-Kage)

As other suspects, he mentions Vezok, Kagelord and xvart. Kagelord had never been mentioned before (save that agreement against vezok). Suspected for the first time, now that Kage is tied against vezok (whom quadz was voting).

If this doesn't seem extremely fishy... I don't know what does.

Are you saying that he is sheeping here? Also I'm not getting what you are driving at as far as the 3-3 tie with vezo and Kage goes. I'm not making the connection on how that is important.

What I'm saying is that quadz never points anything scummy about kagelord but he does about Vezok. Then, after Kagelord is attacked by Oso, Kage appears on his IGMEOY list without much else. He has been saying vezok is scummy but ends up saying that he will vote just about anyone to ensure a lynch
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p2385232:

Sorry, that was poor wording on my part. In my head, my earlier declaration of vezok as 2nd scummiest meant that I would switch to him if that's where the lynch looks to be happening. I pointed you out specifically because you're on the general radar and I hadn't mentioned you.

To clarify, I am willing to switch to KageLord or vezok to ensure a lynch. I may be willing to switch to others as well, if the need arises.

bolded for emphasis.

The 3-3 tie issue talks about the fact that quadz seem to pretend that he would need to vote kage at some point to ensure a lynch (I understand it means he votes whoever has more votes to make sure there's no tie). But the tie could've been decided either way just before I unvoted vezok (with clear instructions that said I was ok with a vezok lynch and that I was voting quadz for the moment) so it didn't make sense for him to say he'd vote kage if he had to when vezok was just as likely a lynch.

That is what kagelord asked him and what quadz answered in the text I quoted saying it was basically all good.

TL,DR (because I'm not sure I was clear and I've been distracted by external forces ):
quadz didnt really suspect Kage.
quadz did claim to suspect vezok (even agreeing with Kage).
quadz votes SSBF
quadz says that he will vote Kage if necessary.
quadz apparently doesn't favor vezok lynch over kage. He just wants to avoid nolynch.
lame.

See ya.

Tasky and Jay may have to be replaced soon.

[Humble Poirot]

@xvart:
It's that and some gut feeling. He and vezok look scummiest to me right now. SSBF's grasping of straws and dislike of defense of others comes across as scummier to me than vezok's short posts. Not by a huge stretch, but still more. But like I said, I'm willing to lynch either.

We need to ensure that we lynch someone; D1 ends in 3 days.

I will switch my vote to KageLord if the deadline comes up and my vote is needed on him to ensure a lynch today; that is a significantly better option than allowing a NL. I say this so that (if it comes to it) everyone understands why I did it, and so people can inform me if that's a terrible idea.

I thought it would be good to add this. This was the comment that caused kagelord to question him about his attitude towards lynching to avoid a deadline.

[quadz08]

quadz apparently doesn't favor vezok lynch over kage. He just wants to avoid nolynch.
lame.

Please, explain why this is lame. I'll take a mislynch over a nolynch on Day 1 every time. At least we get some information this way. Even if I'm to be lynched, that's all right; at least I'll be giving town information to work with in subsequent Days.

[xvart]

Please, explain why this is lame. I'll take a mislynch over a nolynch on Day 1 every time. At least we get some information this way. Even if I'm to be lynched, that's all right; at least I'll be giving town information to work with in subsequent Days.

So what information will you give the town

IF

you flip town?

xvart.

[quadz08]

The people who were on my wagon, for one. You can bet that at LEAST one scum, probably more, is on it. They know that I'm playing scummily, and so will be a pretty easy lynch, so voting for me is relatively safe. I wouldn't be surprised if every scum is voting for me at the end of the day, if they aren't already (assuming I'm the lynch).

[xvart]

The people who were on my wagon, for one.

Who specifically? The people on your wagon would include seven people by the time it comes to completion. That doesn't really help the town narrow it down. If you think scum are likely pushing this wagon, that would mean that someone currently on it would be scum; so why are you not voting anyone on your wagon?

They know that I'm playing scummily, and so will be a pretty easy lynch, so voting for me is relatively safe.

It hasn't been an easy lynch, since it has taken almost a full three weeks to get it going. In fact, the wagon just got steam yesterday.

xvart.

[Humble Poirot]

quadz apparently doesn't favor vezok lynch over kage. He just wants to avoid nolynch.
lame.

Please, explain why this is lame. I'll take a mislynch over a nolynch on Day 1 every time. At least we get some information this way. Even if I'm to be lynched, that's all right; at least I'll be giving town information to work with in subsequent Days.

The lame final signature was a response to the whole explanation, not the lynch over NL argument.

You never seemed to be interested in pushing SSBF. You just voted him. Then, you came out your way to prepare justifications to vote just about anyone and basically asked "if it was ok". You seemed to not care if you voted Kagelord over Vezok despite your posting history could only indicate otherwise.

And now you're nitpicking on tini tiny points ignoring every other post and still not trying to lynch anyone?

The people who were on my wagon, for one. You can bet that at LEAST one scum, probably more, is on it.

This is the utmost tribute to mildness.

It takes 7 to lynch. There's 12 players. 7 + 1 lynchee. That leaves 4 people out of which 2,3 or all need to be scum for that statement to become false. That's the same thing you could say about everyone.

Even if the lynch went through with less people (which I don't think good, I think days need a hammer at some point) it's a non statement. Specially because you don't particularly look at someone. You don't try to explain why you think X is just taking advantage of your scummyness to mislynch you, as you pretend.

They know that I'm playing scummily, and so will be a pretty easy lynch, so voting for me is relatively safe. I wouldn't be surprised if every scum is voting for me at the end of the day, if they aren't already (assuming I'm the lynch).

Who do you think is scum on your wagon so far? Who's voting you for which scummy plays just because it's safe?

You are saying absolutely nothing. What you say could be said in every other case and serve NO purpose. You are not even denying you're scummy so you offer no defense at all for your actions but your word that you aren't scum.

[quadz08]

Who specifically? The people on your wagon would include seven people by the time it comes to completion. That doesn't really help the town narrow it down. If you think scum are likely pushing this wagon, that would mean that someone currently on it would be scum; so why are you not voting anyone on your wagon?

I don't think they're necessarily "pushing" the wagon. Honestly, of the people on my wagon, the only one I've seen reason to suspect is vezok. That doesn't mean he's the only possible scum on my wagon, though; heaven knows I'm far from a great scumhunter.

It hasn't been an easy lynch, since it has taken almost a full three weeks to get it going. In fact, the wagon just got steam yesterday.

Perhaps "easy" wasn't the right term. I was intending to mean that scum could vote for me without a terrible amount of pressure on them to explain, especially as we reach the end of the day.

On that note, since SSBF doesn't look like he will be lynched today: UNVOTE: SSBF, VOTE: vezok

And, since it seems to be that time, I'm claiming. I am a vanilla townie.

[xvart]

Okay then. People not voting for quadz:
jayfl - flaked lyncher (Last post July 17th. I don't expect this vote to change)
sotty - open to switching
tasky - flaked? (Last post on July 14th. I don't expect this vote to change)
kagelord - has not expressed intention to switch to quadz
SSBF - likely (debatable) scum buddy
diddin - likely third scum buddy
quadz - obvscum

So if sotty switches votes that leaves one vote left. Whose it going to be? If the vezok counterwagon is going to produce there better be some solid casebuilding going on in the next 12 hours or so; or some damn good explanations of why a soft claimed power role is

SSBF's lack of participation recently only reinforces my scum read on him.

On that note, since SSBF doesn't look like he will be lynched today: UNVOTE: SSBF

Don't worry, he'll be lynched tomorrow or day three.

xvart.

[diddin]

xvart, tasky is v/la for a while if I recall correctly.

I'm happy voting quadz if we can lynch SSBF tomorrow.

unvote, Vote: Quadz

[Sotty7]

quadz apparently doesn't favor vezok lynch over kage. He just wants to avoid nolynch.
lame.

Please, explain why this is lame. I'll take a mislynch over a nolynch on Day 1 every time. At least we get some information this way. Even if I'm to be lynched, that's all right; at least I'll be giving town information to work with in subsequent Days.

You took this out of context I think. Humble was trying to say your progression of suspicion on Kage/vezo/SSBF didn't add up (a similar point to the one xvart has been making and the more I look at it the more I see what they are driving at.)

EDIT: I see later Humble says pretty much this himself.

The people who were on my wagon, for one. You can bet that at LEAST one scum, probably more, is on it. They know that I'm playing scummily, and so will be a pretty easy lynch, so voting for me is relatively safe. I wouldn't be surprised if every scum is voting for me at the end of the day, if they aren't already (assuming I'm the lynch).

You agree you are playing scummy so if that is true, why is it scummy to be on your wagon? I'd like you to point at particular people that are voting for you that you believe are scum.

= = = = =

The VT claim at lynch -2 pushes me more towards placing my vote on quadz. Combine that with his last couple of posts where he is so

sure

the scum are voting him and yet won't say

who

.

[Sotty7]

diddin's has provided such little content today and now he jumps on the quadz wagon with very little reasoning of his own. Makes me skeptical on dropping the hammer.

[xvart]

Sotty - Don't worry; he's just trying to gain town points by bussing his partner before the day three rope comes with his name on it.

Oh yeah, I forgot that Tasky was V/LA. Thanks for the reminder. So his vote is definitely not going to move unless the moderator replaces him.

xvart.

[xvart]

I'm happy voting quadz if we can lynch SSBF tomorrow.

Deal. You help me lynch your first buddy; then I'll help you lynch your second buddy.

xvart.

[quadz08]

The VT claim at lynch -2 pushes me more towards placing my vote on quadz. Combine that with his last couple of posts where he is so sure the scum are voting him and yet won't say who.

I was merely going by statistics, and how most of the games I've read through/played/heard about have worked. As I said, of the people voting me, the only one I have found scummy is vezok.

[diddin]

The VT claim at lynch -2 pushes me more towards placing my vote on quadz. Combine that with his last couple of posts where he is so sure the scum are voting him and yet won't say who.

I was merely going by statistics, and how most of the games I've read through/played/heard about have worked. As I said, of the people voting me, the only one I have found scummy is vezok.

The problem is mafia is rarely a game of pure statistics. What works with one set of players doesn't necessarily work with another. Quadz: Before you hang, will you explain why you're suspicious of vezok? I've never really seen you make a case on him.

[quadz08]

I don't like how he has made several short posts, with essentially zero content. (I know, I know, I can hear the shouts of "hypocrite!" already.) His vote on me was motivated purely by pressure (as he said, "Here get some pressure if it's needed. My vote is still on kagelord but xvart apparently wants some help.") and he provided no reasons other than that to vote for me. This post is also a pretty heavy contradiction, as he says that the game is getting boring because no one is asking questions of him, then says that another player needs to do his own work and not active lurk.

[xvart]

I don't like how he has made several short posts, with essentially zero content. (I know, I know, I can hear the shouts of "hypocrite!" already.) His vote on me was motivated purely by pressure (as he said, "Here get some pressure if it's needed. My vote is still on kagelord but xvart apparently wants some help.") and he provided no reasons other than that to vote for me. This post is also a pretty heavy contradiction, as he says that the game is getting boring because no one is asking questions of him, then says that another player needs to do his own work and not active lurk.

The thing I was driving at with SSBF earlier about how he has handled vezok in other games (or similar situations) was to see if he would suggest a vig kill or not because in nearly every single game that I've been in a similar situation that has been the decision nearly every single time. The fact that that hasn't even been discussed (I think) is intriguing; especially since SSBF said he's been in this spot before. Granted, we don't know if there is a vig or not; but if someone announced there was a vig right now and said they would kill vezok tonight, how would that change things?

xvart.

[quadz08]

What do you mean by "similar situation?"

[xvart]

Well, a situation with a community agreement on someone being VI or anti-town on D1. I was trying to include other instances outside of ongoing games which was why I made the generalization of "similar situations".

xvart.

[quadz08]

Alright, that makes sense.

[xvart]

Granted, we don't know if there is a vig or not; but if someone announced there was a vig right now and said they would kill vezok tonight, how would that change things?

?

xvart.

[xvart]

Ugh. Failed quote tag. That question was by me.

xvart.