Mafia 1010 - Perpetual MyLo - Game Over

[Lowell]

@MoI- to answer your question, david and brian were the ones that jumped out of nowhere to vote me as soon as reck decided it would be cool. The timing is the scummy part. Quoi and whoever else are lurky, but not dangerous/reckless with their votes.

[xRECKONERx]

RECK'S READ LIST!
Town. Totes .	Probtown	Who fucking knows?	The scum is strong with this one.	WHAT THE FUCK? POST MOAR
Exilon	molestargazer	MagnaofIllusion	nopointactingup	brianj
xRECKONERx	destructor	DavidParker	Shadow Dancer	Quoi
---	---	Lowell	---	Thief

[Shadow Dancer]

So in an environment where we can only afford two mislynches you want to immediately use one to encourage active scum? What criteria are you going to use to assess which of our 5 big lurkers (Lowell, Quoi, Thief, BrianJ, DP) should be the lynch?

Simple: Standard procedure - waggon one by one and look what they say in defense.

[Shadow Dancer]

36- SD asks rules question [-]

To make this a valid point you have to elaborate on it, I guess.

Any way, like the analysis for the most part

Unvote

.

[Thief]

Also, NPIAU is town.

]

RECK'S READ LIST!
Town. Totes .	Probtown	Who fucking knows?	The scum is strong with this one.	WHAT THE FUCK? POST MOAR
Exilon	molestargazer	MagnaofIllusion	nopointactingup	brianj
xRECKONERx	destructor	DavidParker	Shadow Dancer	Quoi
---	---	Lowell	---	Thief

?

[xRECKONERx]

Changed my mind.

Post more, fucking lurkerscum.

[Thief]

Vote: Thief

We haven't any time to waste on those uninterested in self-defence.

Fortunately for you we do have time to waste on lurkers who push targets who are uninterested in defending themselves (read: easy targets) based off no reasoning.

Unvote:
Vote: Quoi

[Thief]

Prod received: 1:14
Second to Last post: 1:14

^I believe this deserves a title of: Ninja

[Max]

"Thief is a Prod Ninja"

VOTE COUNT 4

Lowell - 5 (Destructor, BrianJ, David Parker, MagnaofIllusion, nopointinactingup)
Shadow Dancer - 2 (Exilon, molestargazer)
Magnaofillusion - 2 (xRECKONERx, Lowell)
Quoi - 1 (Thief)
Thief - 1 (Quoi)

Not Voted (Shadow Dancer)

12 Alive, 7 To Lynch

I have prodded brianj, DavidParker, Quoi and Thief.

[Shadow Dancer]

vote quoi

right!

[Quoi]

Fortunately for you we do have time to waste on lurkers who push targets who are uninterested in defending themselves (read: easy targets) based off no reasoning.

Not defending yourself is strongly antitown.

[brianj]

Sorry, anti-prod post here. I'll promise to post tomorrow.

[Exilon]

@SD:

Your OMGUS votes are not really well justified. I can see so for Reck, but you voted me for disagreeing with you and believing that that strategy was scum faking a genuine attempt at helping town. Also you misread me, called me stupid, and didn't even bother to comment on my post which answered to you, simply changing your vote to Reck in a contentless post, which effectively does not make any mention to the reason you advocated as being the one for the OMGUS vote.

So, wanna keep burying yourself, or...?

You just addressed the stupid part from what I could understand (at least directly). Right now, I only need a thorough comment to all of these points.

---

1. Reck’s insistence that it’s a Null tell based on theory alone doesn’t refute NoPoint’s argument.
2. Why is Reck making an argument that is totally theory based as opposed to arguing that it’s not scummy because he’s wagoning Scum?

1) In my opinion, I think it does. But I don't think there's a problem with that.
2) I think this is a fair point, however, NPIAU's main focus was that Reck was scummy for wagoning town, not exactly that Reck was scummy for being on SD. I could see myself answering the same way he did. Rather than proving town/not town, he chose to disprove the theory-based argument that produced that assumption. In the end, both possible "responses" (theory and town/scum) have the same objective.

---

I'll try to read better in the morning, since it's late here.
Holy f*, I want to know how Reck did that table. Wait, I'll just quote him and find out for myself.

Simple: Standard procedure - waggon one by one and look what they say in defense.

I approve of this stance.

Doublevote: Quoi, Thief

Only one at a time? Damn. Fine.
UNVOTE: Shadow Dancer, VOTE: Quoi
Next up is Thief and I'm still leaning scum on Shadow Dancer.

[xRECKONERx]

Quoi wagon is tech

Unvote; Vote: Quoi

[MagnaofIllusion]

Whoa, suddenly someone calls you out and you're like all on that person huh?

So you slapping down a suspicion before someone makes an intro post should prevent them from forming a scum-read on you?

They'll definitely try it when it's real LyLo, i.e. when scum has two kills. Chances for town to win are really bad then, any way, but there are counter strategies, though I don't really know how good they might work... I think we should defer this discussion until we really need it...

So why open an avenue of argument that you then say is better deferred until later on? What scum-hunting effect does it have?

I knew I recognized Lowell from somewhere. It's this game, where I was a part of a two goon + traitor scumteam. Lowell was the traitor, but we kept him alive the whole game because he was so goddamn scummy. Of course, this was because we were actually ABLE to get reads on him, because he posted a decent amount of content. Here, he seems to be lackadaisically floating through the pages, which is directly contradictory to his scum meta.

I see …meta. Good luck with that, as I generally feel it’s a ton of crap.

Magna's entire history so far seems to point to someone who wants to avoid wagons when they get too big. If the reck/SD debate in the 50s was actually a lot of nothing between townies, then scummagna makes a lot of sense. He wants both wagons to take off (they're both active and have enemies) but neither to be stuck to him should lynch arise. Even SD-as-scum fits with this profile, as magna's transition from voting SD to unvoting to then voting the leading alternative makes sense.

Love how your argument predicates on someone not being able to change their mind when they find someone else more scummy. Sorry, it’s not a scum-tell to pressure someone early then move on as more scummy candidates (like yourself) rear their ugly heads. Or as Reck put it I “changed my mind” on ShadowDancer. I can’t be well trying to support SD’s wagon if I jump off when scumtastic hoppers like you join in. Love the OMGUS though, nice touch.

@MoI- to answer your question, david and brian were the ones that jumped out of nowhere to vote me as soon as reck decided it would be cool. The timing is the scummy part. Quoi and whoever else are lurky, but not dangerous/reckless with their votes.

Just like you jumped out of nowhere onto ShadowDancer when he was under fire? Voting for you doesn’t make them inherently dangerous / reckless. And if you are Town why aren’t you more worried that Reck declared your wagon ‘cool’ while never voting for it?

Fortunately for you we do have time to waste on lurkers who push targets who are uninterested in defending themselves (read: easy targets) based off no reasoning.

Unvote:
Vote: Quoi

This vote and Quoi’s original vote for Thief are going to start a recursive Irony cascade that might threaten the fabric of the universe.

Note to self for later analysis.

– Lowell’s wagon tops out at five in previous vote-count when Quoi’s wagon takes off.

[nopointinactingup]

Someone explain to me the dissonance between this:

Nothing changed. There is only spawn of a new possibility that Reck could very well be a town who just doesn't realize his flaws.

and this:

I didn't say SD was town because of that. I'm inclined to believe SD is town because I'm inclined to believe at least 1 of Reck/you are scum.

This just screams fence-sitting.

I will personally explain it to you. When SD talks about game mechanics, I was neutral on him, but I see nothing wrong with his argument either, at least it is contributive. But when he was jumped on by the host of you and KoZ for an INVALID reason, I'm more inclined to believe he's town and one or both of you being scum. Where is the dissonance in that?

As I said above - his attack on me was riddled with flawed logic/theory. The entirety of his attack boiled down to "Townies wagon early; therefore, you're scum trying to look townie by jumping on a wagon early" which has no logical ground.

That's only part of my case, and it may be wrong because you have a different point of view. But what about the other part of my case that you never mentioned? That you jumped on SD with misleading evidence.

Caught up. Some thoughts:

20- reck suggests 'random lynching' [+, not terrible]
31- SD votes reck for being "sure" exilon is town [-, weak]
36- SD asks rules question [-]
41- destructor asks us to be "careful" b/c only two town are needed for mislynch [-, something offputting about this comment]
46- reck leads w/ 4 votes, SD has 3
50s- SD and reck show
64- magna moves from reck to shadow
69- nopoint joins reck wagon
88- more throwaway comments from SD [-]
100- lowell votes SD
105- magna unvotes SD
112- brian votes lowell for bandwagon hopping [-, two votes?]
116- david votes lowell [-, more parotting]
129- SD leads w/ 4 votes, lowell w/ 3
137- SD votes lowell
141- magna votes lowell [-, dodging SD]
154- nopoint votes lowell
155- mole votes SD

unvote, vote magna

fos SD

SD is a fine lynch, but probably not as good as magna. 64 looks a lot like

protecting reck from lynch by jumping on the leading alternative (SD)

. Notably, when SD then got closer to lynch (my 100), magna immediately jumps off AGAIN and votes.... no one. When another wagon starts to rival SD (lowell), he jumps on that to push it as well.

Magna's entire history so far seems to point to someone who wants to avoid wagons when they get too big.

If the reck/SD debate in the 50s was actually a lot of nothing between townies, then scummagna makes a lot of sense

. He wants both wagons to take off (they're both active and have enemies) but neither to be stuck to him should lynch arise. Even SD-as-scum fits with this profile, as magna's transition from voting SD to unvoting to then voting the leading alternative makes sense.

In the first underlined, you are saying Magma is protecting his scumbuddy.
In the second underlined, you are saying Magma wants Reck/SD town wagon.
So which is it?

Changed my mind.

Post more, fucking lurkerscum.

What's with the quick change? Is it because I'm insisting on your scumbuddy being scum and your other scumbuddy being lynched?

2) I think this is a fair point, however,

NPIAU's main focus was that Reck was scummy for wagoning town

, not exactly that Reck was scummy for being on SD. I could see myself answering the same way he did. Rather than proving town/not town, he chose to disprove the theory-based argument that produced that assumption. In the end, both possible "responses" (theory and town/scum) have the same objective.

Correction

NPIAU's main focus was that Reck was scummy for wagoning town with misleading evidence

Exilon.

[DavidParker]

Oops, I'm here forgot to bookmark this thread.

Vote: Shadow Dancer

[Quoi]

Sheesh, guys. I've explained why Thief is hurtful to the town. What have you all against me?

[Shadow Dancer]

@SD:Your OMGUS votes are not really well justified. I can see so for Reck, but you voted me for disagreeing with you and believing that that strategy was scum faking a genuine attempt at helping town. Also you misread me, called me stupid, and didn't even bother to comment on my post which answered to you, simply changing your vote to Reck in a contentless post, which effectively does not make any mention to the reason you advocated as being the one for the OMGUS vote.

So, wanna keep burying yourself, or...?

Point is: You did not disprove me nor really bring up a convincing argument why me scum would have made that proposition. You have a right to disagree with my proposition, to make a better one, improve mine, disprove mine, give arguments against mine, but that hardly justifies an attack like that.

[Shadow Dancer]

@Ex: Why don't you let xRx defend himself?

[Shadow Dancer]

So why open an avenue of argument that you then say is better deferred until later on? What scum-hunting effect does it have?

Don't ask me, it's not my fault we still have this discussion. But there are some people here who seem convinced I must be scum for proposing turning this inot LyLo.

[Shadow Dancer]

All these WOTs give me headaches

[Shadow Dancer]

Omg. What kind of lame vote is that by david... With the nullsum of contribution he's made so far he'd be hardly qualified to vote at all in this stage of the game.

Unvote. Vote DP

There's no "too scummy to be scum"!

[brianj]

Holy fuckton of posts to cover. Reading through them now.

brianj, I don't guess you've played Mafia on GameFAQs, have you?

I am not exactly sure what part of my post you are pointing out by this question. Is this post regarding my opinion toward Shadow Dancer, or DavidParker/Lowell pair?

Shadow Dancer

Can you give me examples where you played this aggressively while you were town?

MagnaofIllusion
I advocated Lowell lynch for two reasons: 1) At that junction Lowell's behaviour was just as scummy as Shadow Dancer, and 2) the vote was attempt to threaten afk players (Lowell, DavidParker, Thief and Quoi) into activity- which is why I put heavy emphasis on the playing style and productiveness in that paragraph. However, the major town focus was on the Shadow Dancer-xRECKONERx at the time of my post, and of course I felt I should add to the discussion my opinion of the matter.

Lowell
Look above kk. (Specifically my response to MagnaofIllusion)

MagnaofIllusion
This vote feels iffy to me. Lowell's quoted post is crummy as hell, but Magna seems to be misinterpreting some of the points in order to deliberately support his point. Lowell fos was based on the fact that "two quietish folks [showed] up to cast votes", not because of them being a lurker. Thus his second sentence regarding Quoi or Thief is baseless. The sentence wasn't that hard to understand either, so I get the impression that he just made that question up to justify the vote.

destructor
Why would you make a post just to say "scum is on the SD wagon", which seems to be pretty obvious considering the number of scum in this game? In the best light it is still WIFOM and I do not like how you use that single statement to further support your suspicions.

Unvote

since Lowell actually seem to producing analysis now, which is better than behaviour of Thief and Quoi. I will start iso'ing players tomorrow and post my analysis then.

[DavidParker]

I love you too shadow dancer.