Mini 1012: Mafia In Soraville (Game Over!)

[Friend]

Hm...maaaaybe he's telling the truth. He feels town to me though whether he is or not.

TheLonging is slowly growing scummier than Pie - not sure if they are indeed buddies, but I feel better about lynching TL than Pie.

unvote, vote: TheLonging

[DemonHybrid]

I am going to rip out my innards. And shower you in them. God-fucking-damn. Tunnel vision to the fucking extreme. Two can play at that game.

And when you shower me with your innards, I will dance as if I'm in a rain storm.

If by "Tunnel vision to the fucking extreme" you mean "You see us both scum, as stated in your scumlist, and I'm not doing anything to curb that suspicion, so here, let me make a desperate attempt to dissuade suspicion by voting for who he thinks is my buddy", then you are correct.

[TheLonging]

OK, I'll be back tomorrow at 12:00 - 2:00 PM. I'll claim if I'm at L-2/L-1 then.

[esuriospiritus]

unvote: DH
Vote: TL

If by "Tunnel vision to the fucking extreme" you mean "You see us both scum, as stated in your scumlist, and I'm not doing anything to curb that suspicion, so here, let me make a desperate attempt to dissuade suspicion by voting for who he thinks is my buddy", then you are correct.

Haha, this, basically. In the DH vs TL exchange on page ten, TL comes out looking way worse for it. DH I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt on for now when it comes to my "backtracking" point against him, and that was really kind of the strongest reasoning for voting him (no pro-town reason to backtrack imo).

TL's IP vote in particular is baaaad. See quote. But also, I honestly don't know how anyone can be reading IP as scum right now. Go read him in iso. If there's one thing he's done, it's contribute original thoughts to cases on people (iso 0, iso 19). That generates the kind of information that would be anti-scum-win-condition (scum want town to end day 1 with as little information and reads as possible). He also gave his opinion on people without being prompted to (iso 29) when scum would want to keep their options as open as possible right now. That outweighs him wanting to policy lynch Jack imo (which isn't really scummy imo even if it's not a super-fantastic idea).

The one thing that makes me wary is that it seems like TL

wants

to claim. I'm ... not sure what to make of that, honestly.

[DemonHybrid]

The one thing that makes me wary is that it seems like TL

wants

to claim. I'm ... not sure what to make of that, honestly.

Eager to defend himself. Claims should be last resort.

I like how he thinks I'm tunneling him when I don't even have a vote on the guy.

[DemonHybrid]

The one thing that makes me wary is that it seems like TL

wants

to claim. I'm ... not sure what to make of that, honestly.

Eager to defend himself. Claims should be last resort.

I like how he thinks I'm tunneling him when I don't even have a vote on the guy.

EBWOP: Tunnel-visioning him.

[Fugitive]

@TL - you realize claiming isn't all that's expected of a defense?

r2r's subtle defense of Pie noted when Pie flips scum.

@Twomz - yes.

[Friend]

TL is acting like his claim is going to save him. As esurio said, not quite sure what to make of that - feels like a general null-tell though.

I honestly don't know how anyone can be reading IP as scum right now. Go read him in iso. If there's one thing he's done, it's contribute original thoughts to cases on people (iso 0, iso 19). That generates the kind of information that would be anti-scum-win-condition (scum want town to end day 1 with as little information and reads as possible). He also gave his opinion on people without being prompted to (iso 29) when scum would want to keep their options as open as possible right now.

You're acting like scum NEVER do this, when, in fact, this is

exactly

what good scum players do. It's not "against the scum wincon" - IMO, all a good scum player has to do is look pro-town. Whatever looking pro-town requires - lynching scum (bussing), giving town information - is what achieving the scum wincon is all about.

[Fugitive]

esurio's not-so-subtle defense of Pie noted when Pie flips scum.

Also,
>implying scum can't contribute original thoughts or give opinions on other players.
>my face

[esuriospiritus]

If we're going to assume that every scum player is playing a perfect game, though, we may as well stop playing. Scum slip up. Until someone does something that makes more sense for scum than it does for town, I am going to stick that person into my "neutral" or "town" box. IP is currently in my "town" box, though that could change. Of

course

scum want to look pro-town, but they have to strike a balance between looking pro-town and thwarting their likelihood of winning, and IP is imo far enough to one side of that spectrum that I don't think he's scum.

[Friend]

@Fugitive: I LOL'd.

@esurio: What, specifically, has he done that shows that he has thwarted his likelihood of winning if he was indeed scum?

[Fugitive]

If we're going to assume that every scum player is playing a perfect game, though, we may as well stop playing. Scum slip up. Until someone does something that makes more sense for scum than it does for town, I am going to stick that person into my "neutral" or "town" box. IP is currently in my "town" box, though that could change. Of

course

scum want to look pro-town, but they have to strike a balance between looking pro-town and thwarting their likelihood of winning, and IP is imo far enough to one side of that spectrum that I don't think he's scum.

>implying Pie isn't good enough to play a very good scum game (He's got quite a few games under his belt and plays a very good scum game. Thankfully I caught him for you guys.)

Seriously, Pie giving reads and contributing new thoughts is NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT a town-tell. Hell, it's not a town tell for anyone. It's helpful, sure, but you're seriously saying that scum can't at least pretend to be helpful and give reads and such? I'm seriously thinking you should stop playing mafia if:
1) You don't always assume the worst case (assume scum are not slipping)
2) You think someone who plays pro-town is town
3) You think looking pro-town twarts scum's chance to win

[esuriospiritus]

Nothing specific that I haven't already mentioned, really. In early game scum can get away with hanging back a little and not contributing much/at all right away (kind of like Twomz is doing, hmm) and, in fact,

should

do that in order to stall day and drag on RVS for as long as they can without actively appearing scummy imo. IP did the opposite of that imo (though if we want to talk about someone who

really

thwarted that whole "dragging on RVS" thing, Jack did even better at that. <_<)

It's helpful, sure, but you're seriously saying that scum can't at least pretend to be helpful and give reads and such?

Of course they can. I just don't think that IP is pretending. In that respect it's a "gut" tell, though.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But I'm not going to

not

say something when someone I think is town is being pressured/voted.

[esuriospiritus]

bbl btw, watching Star Trek 4 with the fiancé. :3

[Jack]

Pie is a much better vote than TL. TL had a townie sounding post somewhere.

esurio don't be silly.

[DemonHybrid]

You're acting like scum NEVER do this, when, in fact, this is

exactly

what good scum players do. It's not "against the scum wincon" - IMO, all a good scum player has to do is look pro-town. Whatever looking pro-town requires - lynching scum (bussing), giving town information - is what achieving the scum wincon is all about.

Seriously, Pie giving reads and contributing new thoughts is NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT a town-tell. Hell, it's not a town tell for anyone. It's helpful, sure, but you're seriously saying that scum can't at least pretend to be helpful and give reads and such? I'm seriously thinking you should stop playing mafia if:
1) You don't always assume the worst case (assume scum are not slipping)
2) You think someone who plays pro-town is town
3) You think looking pro-town twarts scum's chance to win

My god, buckets and buckets of win all over all of our faces

Please listen to these two, they know what they're talking about.

I just came out of a game where we violated #1 and #2 of Fugitive's post, and we got our arguments shoved into our asses by scum.

[Friend]

Jack I can't find a townie sounding TL post :/

[Jack]

Jack I can't find a townie sounding TL post :/

I think it was something about him bringing up some marathon game he won that didn't seem like a scum reaction.

[Friend]

is that an omgus fos on me jack? I love you too, just don't let your ego get in the way, kinda like when I pinpointed you and Soc as scum in that marathon game

This?

Eh. Don't see how that's any sort of tell.

Blehhh. Can't make up my mind between Pie and TL.

[DemonHybrid]

is that an omgus fos on me jack? I love you too, just don't let your ego get in the way, kinda like when I pinpointed you and Soc as scum in that marathon game

This?

Eh. Don't see how that's any sort of tell.

Blehhh. Can't make up my mind between Pie and TL.

Flip a coin. They're both scum anyway =P

[Friend]

Hah.

Fuck it,

unvote, vote: InflatablePie

Seems like the lynch that's going down today anyways and I support it.

[DemonHybrid]

Well, he's L-2. We can wait for a claim or just go for it with the information we have.

[DemonHybrid]

Well, he's L-2. We can wait for a claim or just go for it with the information we have.

EBWOP: Think of it this way:

If Pie flips town, that's one mislynch (which happens nearly all the time anyway on D1). If he flips scum, that's one nearly-guaranteed scum in Kov who weakly slithered his way out of the conversation, and a big suspicion in TL who cracked and voted IP out of pressure, and that's a LOT to gain on Day 1 with such a small risk.

[Fugitive]

@DH - Naw, TL is town. Pretty misguided, but town.

Pie is scum, however. Twmoz is scum with him. Possibly r2r with them, but I'd have to look more into that. I think esurio is a misguided townie. I cannot get a read off of DH anymore.

[Fugitive]

Well, he's L-2. We can wait for a claim or just go for it with the information we have.

EBWOP: What is it with everyone and claims? That's not the only form of defense. I don't care if Pie claims doc or cop . He's still scum.

Heh, emoticons.