Open 226: Big Love - Game over! Town wins!

[yabbaguy]

don's not scummy.

If those Lover pairs make it to endgame, Town could be massively advantaged. Believe me, TL is a poor choice.

[yabbaguy]

And that's what "not yet" likely is, save it for endgame. That's a seriously off-the-mark, likely manipulative interpretation.

[DavidParker]

Vote: Enigma

(HI DOOMMONKEY!!!)

Why? Because I have played some 20 games with him and feel that I can safely say he is likely scum.

he also has yet to cast a single vote?!??

How has no one picked up on this.. Sure he has presented some quasi-cases on people.. but what has he actually done to further a town-agenda?? Nothing.. 0 votes all game and we are well into day 2... Definitely lynch-worthy. And on top of that, I can confirm having played some 20 or so games with him and feeling pretty confident on a read on him.

[Robocopter87]

Please, don't use Meta to vote peopl.

Thats just stupid. Its the reasons people overload on Alts. Just don't use Meta.

[Robocopter87]

*People

[DavidParker]

meta was only part of my argument. And it's something i can't avoid when playing with someone who i have played so many games with.

[Robocopter87]

Well, Avoid it. And it was most of your argument. All you had against him besides Meta is lack of Votes.

[mallowgeno]

Robo stop dodging me. Defend yourself

[mallowgeno]

I can't decide if Shattered Viewpoint or don_johnson is a better lynch today. Let's just lynch one of them today and the other tomorrow. Moar votes on SV pl0x.

Indecision is scummy. L8r will do ISO on Yabba because he's a slippery one.

[Robocopter87]

Robo stop dodging me. Defend yourself

Didn't I say I wasn't going to?

[don_johnson]

wonderful. four confirmed townies who shouldn't claim just yet. i'm going to sift through the chichi wagon detractors and find another scum. let you know what i come up with.

oh and... you're welcome.

"You're welcome"? Cocky aren't we? What this said to me was that he either has a huge epeen, or that he actually thinks he is the best thing the town has, and wants others to think that too.

Who benefits most from others thinking they are town? Mafia. A townie can do whatever the hell they want, because they know they are town, a mafia, needs others to believe him.

bolded is the most ignorant thing i have read in a while. good townies shouldn't be "overly" concerned with thier reputation, yes, but most games i have been in where town has won it is because several players actively take the lead in finding scum and act so god damn town its funny. townies who do "whatever the hell they want" often sink good towns.

That was the most helpful case I have EVER read, congrats. Not only did you just throw you vote around without so much as a "He seems scummy:, you just said he seems "Interesting", hell, Adam Sandler is interesting but he isn't scum, try making a case instead of telling others to do your work for you. A scum wants others to look at people with an initial feeling of scum,

for instance, if I look at all of MY posts thinking "I think this guy is scummy..." then I will undoubtedly FIND things that appear scummy, the same way that would happen if I looked at myself for townie things

, a scum wants YOU to make your own case, so no one can pick out flaws and alterior motives in his posts.

bolded sounds like a personal problem. just because you don't have the mental capacity to read someones iso and form your own opinion, don't assume everyone else is a sheep as well. if you have a question for me just ask. all you are doing is criticizing my "playstyle".

if you read sandman, you will note that he spends alot of time ignoring the chihuahua situation. he even goes out of his way to mention that he is not "defending" chichi, when he clearly is. he stays focused on the xite/millar combo all day. suddenly, millar is not so attractive to him. why is that?

so someone who seems to actively avoid a day 1 scum wagon is "null" to you? i don't get it.

Firstly, even I didn't believe you and your whole chihuahua thing until Fidelis claimed and I checked the numbers, so don't rag on people who didn't agree with you and immediately called you our "Saviour".

your language here suggests you are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. i never asked you to call me your "savior". expecting a little for good scumhunting is only natural.

Secondly, why are you attacking him? Don't you think there are better people to question, and with better questions than this? I do.

don't follow you here. day isn't over. i have time to question all whom i choose to question. you are acting as though sandman is in danger of a quicklynch. he is not. there is plenty of time for discussion. when he answers my questions i will either further interrogate him, or move on.

Clinging to the past (And especially past townie looking events) is a big scum tell, and the town needs to move forward in this game, not sit back in your old "glory"

hence why i am now investigating my new suspects and asking questions and participating in day 2. noone here is "clinging to the past". your entire argument here seems to be revolving around the idea that sandman is town. how do you know sandman is town? you were obviously(and admittedly) initially wrong about chichi(when i was spot on), so why do you think i am wrong about sandman? as of yet, i don't even think he has answered my last query.

you see, millars lover can confirm him. lovers aren't getting lynched. they are all as good as masons. actually,

as i read this again, that seems to be precisely what you are saying. hm.

that doesn't change your actions yesterday. and also, you are abandoning xite as well. please explain why you are no longer suspicious of xite(or if you are suspicious, why does sv take precedence.)

OK, so 4 minutes later, you post a total contridictory post that has no purpose? Why? I've said it before, and I'll say it again, you appear to be flailing.

flailing? actually, i simply acknowledged that i had misread someones post. how is admitting ones mistakes = flailing? hint: its not. you're reaching.

dp might be a good pick for a bus. can't wait to here his reasoning for his dj vote. i do remember him playing both sides of the fence a bit yesterday, and his last couple posts are a bit odd.

Ok, so now 6 minutes later, you post ANOTHER contentless post (So far, no post on day 2 has had any analysis or pro town content at all). You again say "Look at this guy! don't look at me!" and it is starting to get old, make cases, don't point fingers.

its not contentless. it contains an observation. just because it isn't a giant quote wall doesn't mean its "contentless". it points specifically at one player and states a clear and concise opinion. if you want to know why i feel that way, you should just ask. instead,

you

are the one fingerpointing. whats funny, is that this argument seems to be based on the idea that davidparker is town. do you think davidparker is town? thats two players now who you seem to be "defending". i understand that "lovers" are now confirmed to each other, but no way could you possibly know of two confirmed townies. and yet you have levelled two attacks against me, which at their roots, seem to be based on the idea that the players i am questioning are town and not scum.

Bussing the treacherous lover, and then trying to get the remaining 4 lovers to claim, is a great scum play.

whose "trying to get the remaining 4 lovers to claim"?

From what I know about Don, this behavior might just be him.

if by "behavior" you mean "excellent scumhunting" then you are correct.

i pointed out what was wrong with chichi's posts right off the bat. there was only one other player with me at that time. way too many oppurtunities to "not" lynch chichi. a bus, my vote was certainly not, by any stretch of the imagination. now zaj seems to have launched an unsubstantiated and blatantly false accusation. at no point in time have i asked or suggested that the remaining lovers claim.

i get why sandman abandoned his suspicion of millar, but votes not moving until sandman explains why he is abandoning his suspicions of xite.

next i iso chichi.

Ok, WHAT? someone attacks you, and your response is a sarcastic rhetorical question which completely dodges the issue?!

please explain this. someone accused me of trying to out the remaining lovers by getting them to claim. how is asking for proof of said accusation a "sarcastic rhetorical question"? it was actually a real question(albeit rhetorical).

[quote="obvscum"Wow, Atleast make up a defense, if it is so obvious you aren't doing that, then it shouldn't be hard to prove it.[/quote]

innocent until proven guilty. not the other way around. someone else levied the accusation. they need to support it.

By basically waving it off, you look even more scummy to me, I mean, that is just bad play right there plain and simple.

nobody waved anything off.

You go on to get even MORE cocky, and again I will say, that the people who REALLY want to seem town, are scum, not townies. That sentence is just so bad, and pointless... and it ignores any chance you had to explain your meta (even a little bit of "Oh, i'm a cocky guy" would have sufficed there).

?? not sure which sentence you are referring to.

You then go on to say you are going to spend your scum hunting time... on a dead scum. Why? stop clinging to the past! We all know you aggressively pushed the chi lynch, but that in NO way makes you safe, I have explained above why I think you are a "Sacrificial Scum" and I think other's will see just how bad you are from some of these analysis'. At the bottom of this post, I have my vote

you don't see the value in rereading what a dead scum wrote? seriously? you are suggesting that we ignore any and all information that chichi himself posted in this thread? is that what you are suggesting?

puhleeze.

[don_johnson]

sorry. quote fail.

should read:

Wow, Atleast make up a defense, if it is so obvious you aren't doing that, then it shouldn't be hard to prove it.

innocent until proven guilty. not the other way around. someone else levied the accusation. they need to support it.

By basically waving it off, you look even more scummy to me, I mean, that is just bad play right there plain and simple.

nobody waved anything off.

[Switz]

@David:

vote: don_johnson

Reason to come once I find my glasses and don't have to have my head 2 inches from my laptop screen.

Where is this? I hope you've found your glasses since Wednesday.

And while I do agree with you somewhat on Enigma's lack of content, I don't think that's enough of a reason to vote him when we have Shattered still alive, who has done effectively as little as Enigma, but isn't a contender for Millar's Lover and did hammer for the wrong reasons on Day 1.

@Mallow:

I was personally waiting for Mallow to give us his thoughts on D1 before I started looking into the Xite thing again, but those of you who are bringing it up (Zero, Wacka, etc.) are right, we shouldn't forget about him. But since he wasn't replaced when Day started, I figured it was more productive to go after the other really scummy person who stood out to me.

Now that he's here though...

So your really gonna kill six people to find one scum?

Once again contradicting his vote for Chi...

I can see some of the points in this long Robo ISO, Mallow, but this one seems to have been twisted by you. I believe Robo was referring to the plan (promoted by either Xite or Millar or both) to kill all the Lovers one by one until we get the TL, which doesn't make sense. His position on that doesn't contradict his vote on Chi if he thought (correctly, as it turned out) that Chi was the TL himself.

And what are your thoughts on some of the other players in this game? Trying to pressure Robo is good normally, but I'm not sure it's enough for someone whose predecessor was almost on the chopping block.

@Shattered:

Are you going to respond to anything anyone has asked you ever? Or scumhunt? Or do more than post useless nonsense? Serious questions.

@yabba:

I'll go back and check on whether or not I was the first to classify the Xite|Millar|Chi thing as our only option after this. If I did, all I can say in my defense is that it might have been a side-effect of replacing in, and I just mentally categorized them together for convenience. I'll let you know though.

I'm curious as to why you are now opposed to a Shattered case, since you were trying to make one all the way back on page 7, and he's only gotten scummier since then. If you want one, though, I'll do what you suggested then and ISO him.

His first real content post is #11, where he votes Robo.
The next day in #12, he says he's voting Robo because he's tunneling Don.
Twelve hours later, in #13, he changes his mind and says he's also voting Robo because Robo is policy voting Chi. Robo was voting Chi for policy voting, which is sort of policy voting, I suppose. It's just ridiculous logic for SV to vote him then.
In #14, Shattered now thinks Chi is an idiot and Millar is a tool but provides no content otherwise.
In #15, which I've pointed out before, I believe, SV goes after Fidelis for not voting Millar (even though Fidelis already is voting Millar) and then votes Millar himself.
#16 is useless.
In #17, SV has now changed his mind entirely. He agrees with Robo, something he would not have done only a few posts prior, and follows him in unvoting Millar, although not without planting the seeds of a Millar+Robo scumbuddy team.
#18 is spent trying to get Xite to talk. Active lurking, mayhaps?
He totally 180's in #19/20 and decides to go after Xite for no posted reason.
#22 is the key post, where he hammers Chi to kill Fidelis. He goes back to his #15 and uses it as justification for his insane theory that Fidelis is a bluffing TL. Even though the very accusation itself was clearly established to be wrong because Fidelis had already been voting Millar. See my prior post for more details.
SV doesn't post anything useful then until #25, when he responds to Smashbro's accusation that he was trying to move attention away from Chi in his #13. He gives reasons why he thought Fidelis was scum, reasons which don't make sense in the wake of Fidelis claiming to be Chi's Lover, and then tries to brush the whole thing under the rug, promising to return with thoughts in a few days.
#26. Shattered returns, no thoughts.

TLDR: Shattered does nothing for the majority of Day 1. Then he follows the prevailing thought of the moment around and around, jumping from Robo to Millar to Xite and finally to Chi, hammering him and ending Day 1. Day 2, all he's done is try to defend himself, promise results, and not deliver. That count as a case?

[mallowgeno]

I can see some of the points in this long Robo ISO, Mallow, but this one seems to have been twisted by you. I believe Robo was referring to the plan (promoted by either Xite or Millar or both) to kill all the Lovers one by one until we get the TL, which doesn't make sense. His position on that doesn't contradict his vote on Chi if he thought (correctly, as it turned out) that Chi was the TL himself.

Whoops my bad. Read it in ISO only thought it was referring to that.

[Switz]

And what are your thoughts on some of the other players in this game? Trying to pressure Robo is good normally, but I'm not sure it's enough for someone whose predecessor was almost on the chopping block.

You have any thoughts or are you just hoping we lynch Robo without asking any questions?

[mallowgeno]

I hope ur not asking me...I asked him questions but he's ignoring me.

[Robocopter87]

No, you asked me to provide a defense, not questions. Theres a difference.

[mallowgeno]

So we know that Chi is a lover along with Fidelis, so we kill the lover to have two deaths? Am I the only one missing something here?

unvote vote Chi

I shall help in this endeavor I guess.

Whoa hold it, hold it! Why would you say that you don't want two deaths for a lover, then turn around and bw so easily? A red flag there.

Why did you so easily submit to the vote on Chi when you earlier were questioning it?

[Robocopter87]

I didn't understand the concept of voting Lovers. I thought that it wasn't smart to kill off townies in hopes to kill scum. But I later realized that it wasn't such a bad idea.

[DavidParker]

@switz: at the time i had my head almost on top of my laptop screen i was so blind, and had just decided the day before i wanted to vote for don, i think it was just the way i got a vibe he was bussing the treachourous lover on day 1, and said some scummy things himself. I dunno, I no longer find him as scummy as Shattered/Enigma so not going to build a case there.

[Sanxion]

Vote Shattered Viewpoint

Switz's case makes more sense than David's post, but I don't that one isn't unfounded either.

[don_johnson]

No, you asked me to provide a defense, not questions. Theres a difference.

trudat.

[mallowgeno]

@ Mod: Can we get a votecount plox?

[Enigma]

The TL is the best scum to bus because you get a townie too. Confirmed townies are fine and dandy except when they get 2 fer 1d on the NKs. Masons they are not. Admittedly he didn't actually tell them to claim, but he also didn't cry to the heavens for them not to. He said they shouldn't claim

yet

.

I really don't like how you are attacking me for attacking don, but also attacking don in the same post.

Confirmed town lovers are actually quite a gamble for townies given there is a doc in this game. Even more they are much safer than your regular VTs as it is a logical target for the doc to protect.
It gives them to freedom to do something crazy with the possibility of just claiming a lover if they are in danger.

@DP, so by your logic Voting=Town Agenda? Unless I'm confident that I'm voting for the right person and not contributing to a mafia agenda by assisting a mislynch, I'll be happy to hold onto my vote. That, and there is also enough finger pointing and voting going on in all directions already in this game.

[DavidParker]

Pft, the vote is the only power townies have. Try using it!