Mini 1012: Mafia In Soraville (Game Over!)

[Fugitive]

no no, That's not where I would move them.

[DemonHybrid]

DemonHybrid, TheLonging, and

Fugitive

Well, duh.

You just got slightly more town, by the way.

I suppose I will give my list again, since my last one left out some people.

DemonList

Town

Friend
Jack
Fugitive
MvK

Neutral

Esurio
Haschel
Twomz

Scum

r2r
Kov
TheLonging
IP

Ask if I need to explain something. Order goes from most town to scummiest. List is subject to change (most definitely).

[Friend]

Well what

would

you do with them?

I'm intrigued by the solid town read on Jack, DH.

[Fugitive]

inb4IdieN1becauseI'moneveryone'stownlist

Stop making lists. It's not a town or scum-tell, but it gives scum ideas.

[Friend]

Meh, I knew someone would say that. This is more of an MD topic probs but I think scum almost always already know and can tell who the towniest players are. Making lists doesn't change that.

[DemonHybrid]

Well what

would

you do with them?

I'm intrigued by the solid town read on Jack, DH.

I just have a good feeling about him. He's staying out of the way, yet contributing just enough to keep discussion going geared towards hunting scum. He seems to know what he's doing and has a plan, and although if you take his posts at face value and see them as anti-town, you'd be missing the point of his play. Also, none of these reads would be possible without him. I think he's doing exactly what a townie should do. Compared to Kov and r2r, who post when called out solely + making weak contributions and then melting away. They're afraid to challenge whereas Jack's been pretty ballsy with his logic challenges. Jack is fine this game. Those bothered by him are scummy/newtown.

And I sorta agree with Friend here. Plus, these lists are always subject to change on a whim. They just reflect my current thoughts.

[DemonHybrid]

I would go as far as to say there is DEFINITE scum between r2r and Kov, however, not both. IP is definitely scum, and TL is a strange one. My read on TL might change later after a flip or two depending, but he's acting almost too scummy, and I've had bad experience mislynching people like that. He stays on my scumlist regardless as IP's partner until more information arises. I don't like his play at all.

[Fugitive]

TL is probably town. I'll call him neutral-town for now, but probably just a solid townie.

IP needs to be lynched faster.

[DemonHybrid]

TL is probably town. I'll call him neutral-town for now, but probably just a solid townie.

IP needs to be lynched faster.

Yeah, I will say this: TL is -not- the lynch for today. IP is.

[InflatablePie]

You asked me to provide a top 5, when I only have 3 or so solid suspects at this time... and then proceed to tear me apart for doing so. I can't say I didn't see this coming.

Pie: DH isn't on that scumlist

Because he's not one of my suspects.

If you want to do the meta dance, then we can do the meta dance, just so I can put you in your place regarding meta. In my experience with Fugitive (skimming games that he's been in and playing with him), short, sarcastic and blunt responses means he has nothing to defend. He's been town in the games that I've seen when he's done this. When he posts very long, helpful, involved responses, he's been scum. Please correct me if I'm wrong, Fugitive.

This means ABSOLUTELY nothing regarding this game. He's neutral-town to me, emphasis on the neutral. Past games should mean -nothing-, if very little (like extremely obvious confirmed scum tells).

I agree with Fugi being helpful as scum. He's also helpful as town, as I do remember a few walls of texts and long arguments with one user in Furry mafia.

Regarding this game, Fugi mostly gives off reads with little to no explanation, which is the part that's bugging me. All but (about) four of his posts before he voted me have been "Pie is scum" - look at him in ISO. He's turning tunnel-visioned.

Pretty much spot on. The fact that Pie has used meta against me as a reason for suspicion,

placing me in this top 5 scum candidates should probably qualify for a policy lynch right there

. Policy aside, he's likely scum, so he needs to be noosed up now.

Friend's reads are pretty much correct. Though I would change the placement of 3 people.

I say your meta seems different so I'm keeping an eye on you, and this qualifies for a policy lynch? Wow, Fugi.

Those bothered by [Jack] are scummy/newtown.

I'm neither, so you're gonna have to explain yourself here. If not now, remember to do it postgame.

[esuriospiritus]

Hmmm. I still honestly don't understand what makes so many people so sure IP is scum. (I haven't gotten around to reading the game Jack linked, though... but nor do I really feel like it's going to sway my opinion all that much. Anyone with a modicum of self-awareness can change their meta at any time. :/)

I'm not crazy about his scum list. DH pointed out his parroting on the Kov thing, r2r is firmly in my "neutral" bucket (seen plenty of town players be bad about having firm suspicions/confident voting day one... the player Seven comes to mind immediately), Fugi case is meta-based and Jack is being Jack.

Enough people I consider to be probtown/obvtown are set on an IP lynch that I feel like I'm missing something, though. IP's scum list is, tbqh, the sketchiest thing I have seen of him so far. It seems intentionally not-helpful. It's enough for me to reconsider him (because who wants to lynch Jack? Srsly?) and put him back in my neutral box, but eh. Is there something I'm missing on the case on IP other than "he wants to policy lynch Jack" + "his scum list sucks"? Because I just don't get how so people are so sure he's scum and it's making me feel like a noobtown. ._.

Esurio is playing similarly to the way she played in our previous game in which she was scum - that's the only thing that's got me a little sketched out about her.

Sounds like you've got a good, healthy case of got-my-ass-whooped-by-esurio-scum paranoia to me. I disagree that I'm posting similarly (obviously my posts have been a lot more curt and more often, but that is mostly a product of me having this week off work) but I'm kind of biased.

[InflatablePie]

For the record, I want TL lynched before Jack, for sure.

Top 5 suspects: TL, Jack, Kov, Fugitive, r2r.

Kov for his fencesitting-ish post about me way back there.

Wow, what?

Where did this come from? It sounds rather familiar.

All of a sudden after so long, Kov is a suspect for the same reason I suspect him for (and after no one else said anything about him)

I mentioned here I was finding Kov odd. Does no one read my posts? Oh, and Demon, it's not always scummy to agree with someone, depending on the situation. If someone's mimicking everyone else for a long period of time and contributes no original thoughts, then that's scummy. I noticed his post and pointed it out accordingly.

@IP:So why do you think I'm scum because I took a neutral stance? since when was that a scum tell?

When you sit on the fence about an issue/discussion in mafia, it makes it seem like you're scum waiting to see which side is the better one to take. You can then go back and cite that post as evidence for either side. Neutral stance =/= fencesitting - the former can be taken by townies, but when you both cast suspicion and defend the same person in the same post, that's scummy.

[InflatablePie]

Vote: Fugitive

This is not an RVS vote. He's really dangerous as scum. We should all keep an eye on him..

Maybe I'm missing the obvious sarcasm/joke in "this is not an RVS vote", but this is crap logic.

I don't know, just at best (maybe he's scum trying to play bad so that if he doesn't get lynched today, when he gets investigated (if there is such a role) he'll turn up innocent and people will be less suspicious of him?). I am strongly of the belief he is scum, but maybe godfather (Hey I've seen that type of play before) or regular goon?

I have already explained why this setup speculation is scummy.

is that an omgus fos on me jack? I love you too, just don't let your ego get in the way, kinda like when I pinpointed you and Soc as scum in that marathon game

*Jack FoSes everyone*

oicwutudidthar

You just can't provide reasoning for your FoS... hell you haven't done that for any other vote/fos. Oh well.

Casting suspicion back on Jack because Jack FoSed him.

esii (that's what I am calling you now) says I am mjaorly overreacting, he agrees with people, yet only uses a FoS. hmmmmmmmm. Do you find DH more scummy than I now?

Unless I'm reading this the wrong way, he does this to esurio here as well.

Pie is scummy when he acts pro-town. That's his meta. He's also town when he acts pro-town.

Unvote

Vote: InflatablePie

L-2, Pie claim, someone lynch already! Too bad the wagon switched to Pie though, I was ready to claim.[/quote]

- This is fencesitting, too. Why even mention this? It's a useless statement.
- Already said this is a bad vote.
- The last part confuses me, but TL coming in out of nowhere and trying to rush my lynch is scummy as all hell.

I joined the BW because I thought it would be fun *snip* BTW if Pie flips scum, r2r goes tomorrow. If Pie flips town, DH goes tomorrow.

This not only confirms TL is blatantly bandwagoning, but he also tried setting up lynches - not always scummy, but definitely not pro-town. Bravo.

What he did at the beginning of D1. He obviously is more pro-town now than he ever was before, but scum who turn pro-town are still scum, is he not? There's uh, pretty much whole cases back there.

>whole cases
>beginning of D1

[InflatablePie]

Whew. I think I'm done.

Any questions?

[InflatablePie]

EBWOP just in case:

Unvote, Vote: TheLonging

Yeah, my tags broke. I'm not voting myself.

[Kov]

I'm missing on the case on IP other than "he wants to policy lynch Jack" + "his scum list sucks"? Because I just don't get how so people are so sure he's scum and it's making me feel like a noobtown. ._.

This is exactly how i feel, except i'm pretty sure i'm noobtown anyway...

[Jack]

v/la 3 days

[Kov]

v/la 3 days

Are you actually v/la this time?

[Twomz]

v/la 3 days

Are you actually v/la this time?

Probably not, but no one cares enough to vote.

[sorasgoof]

Day 1 Vote Totals

If there is a mistake, point it out.
Last post seen:

Twomz,

page 14.

[5] InflatablePie:

Jack, Fugitive, DemonHybrid, TheLonging, Friend [L-2]

[3] TheLonging:

ManfredvonKarma, InflatablePie, esuriospiritus [L-4]

[2] Jack:

Twomz, Kov [L-5]

[1] ready2rock:

Haschel Cedricson [L-6]

[0/4] No Lynch:

None

[0/4] Deadline Extension:

None

Not Voting:

ready2rock

Prods:

ManfredvonKarma

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is August 5th, at 11:59 ET.

[DemonHybrid]

If you want to do the meta dance, then we can do the meta dance, just so I can put you in your place regarding meta. In my experience with Fugitive (skimming games that he's been in and playing with him), short, sarcastic and blunt responses means he has nothing to defend. He's been town in the games that I've seen when he's done this. When he posts very long, helpful, involved responses, he's been scum. Please correct me if I'm wrong, Fugitive.

This means ABSOLUTELY nothing regarding this game. He's neutral-town to me, emphasis on the neutral. Past games should mean -nothing-, if very little (like extremely obvious confirmed scum tells).

1.

I agree with Fugi being helpful as scum. He's also helpful as town, as I do remember a few walls of texts and long arguments with one user in Furry mafia.

Regarding this game, Fugi mostly gives off reads with little to no explanation, which is the part that's bugging me. All but (about) four of his posts before he voted me have been "Pie is scum" - look at him in ISO. He's turning tunnel-visioned.

Those bothered by [Jack] are scummy/newtown.

2.

I'm neither, so you're gonna have to explain yourself here. If not now, remember to do it postgame.

For the record, I want TL lynched before Jack, for sure.

Top 5 suspects: TL, Jack, Kov, Fugitive, r2r.

Kov for his fencesitting-ish post about me way back there.

Wow, what?

Where did this come from? It sounds rather familiar.

All of a sudden after so long, Kov is a suspect for the same reason I suspect him for (and after no one else said anything about him)

3.

I mentioned here I was finding Kov odd. Does no one read my posts? Oh, and Demon, it's not always scummy to agree with someone, depending on the situation. If someone's mimicking everyone else for a long period of time and contributes no original thoughts, then that's scummy. I noticed his post and pointed it out accordingly.

@IP:So why do you think I'm scum because I took a neutral stance? since when was that a scum tell?

4.

When you sit on the fence about an issue/discussion in mafia, it makes it seem like you're scum waiting to see which side is the better one to take. You can then go back and cite that post as evidence for either side. Neutral stance =/= fencesitting - the former can be taken by townies, but when you both cast suspicion and defend the same person in the same post, that's scummy.

1. More of the meta dance. What, no flowers?

He -can- be helpful as town, but for the most part, he has -nothing- to prove or defend, so, although he has a helpful post now and then, his overall attitude is still sarcastic, blunt, etc. and that's what you're seeing this game.

God, I hate talking about meta. Stop focusing on it. I know you're losing an argument, but come on.

2. Um.

You are scummy to me.

Yeesh.

3. Right, I didn't catch that. Sort of a small part of a big post, so apologies there. However, this post is still after I suspect him for being neutral on you and going like "Ehhhhh not sure what to dooooo....so....maybe I'll just....yeah....*disappears". Same case. Seems agreeable enough, but also a pretty big copy of my views.

4. It doesn't help that you're making the exact same argument I made in more detail.

[Fugitive]

Pie, I tunnel because you're scum. We both know it.

Once you're lynched I can focus on your buddies, which I've called out anyway.

[TheLonging]

For the record, I want TL lynched before Jack, for sure.

Can we get the best of this and not lynch Jack OR me?

Vote: Fugitive

This is not an RVS vote. He's really dangerous as scum. We should all keep an eye on him..

Maybe I'm missing the obvious sarcasm/joke in "this is not an RVS vote", but this is crap logic.

SHM3.

I don't know, just at best (maybe he's scum trying to play bad so that if he doesn't get lynched today, when he gets investigated (if there is such a role) he'll turn up innocent and people will be less suspicious of him?). I am strongly of the belief he is scum, but maybe godfather (Hey I've seen that type of play before) or regular goon?

I have already explained why this setup speculation is scummy.

This isn't setup speculation, it's speculation at DH's play. Fail moar

is that an omgus fos on me jack? I love you too, just don't let your ego get in the way, kinda like when I pinpointed you and Soc as scum in that marathon game

*Jack FoSes everyone*

oicwutudidthar

You just can't provide reasoning for your FoS... hell you haven't done that for any other vote/fos. Oh well.

Casting suspicion back on Jack because Jack FoSed him.

This wasn't casting suspicion

esii (that's what I am calling you now) says I am mjaorly overreacting, he agrees with people, yet only uses a FoS. hmmmmmmmm. Do you find DH more scummy than I now?

Unless I'm reading this the wrong way, he does this to esurio here as well.

Nope. I see how you would think of it that way, but I was asking esii if he did find DH more suspicious of me. If not, then I don't know why he only FoS'd me. See how that works out?

Pie is scummy when he acts pro-town. That's his meta. He's also town when he acts pro-town.

Unvote

Vote: InflatablePie

L-2, Pie claim, someone lynch already! Too bad the wagon switched to Pie though, I was ready to claim.

- This is fencesitting, too. Why even mention this? It's a useless statement.

We were LOL TALKING META I believe

- Already said this is a bad vote.

Because it's on you, amirite

- The last part confuses me, but TL coming in out of nowhere and trying to rush my lynch is scummy as all hell.

When you walk through the door it is clear to see
You're the one they find scummy it is plain to see
You're a, scumbag
Everybody wants to
lynch you
who would really blame you?
Sora's the one who made you

I joined the BW because I thought it would be fun *snip* BTW if Pie flips scum, r2r goes tomorrow. If Pie flips town, DH goes tomorrow.

This not only confirms TL is blatantly bandwagoning, but he also tried setting up lynches - not always scummy, but definitely not pro-town. Bravo.

I know, I need an encore

What he did at the beginning of D1. He obviously is more pro-town now than he ever was before, but scum who turn pro-town are still scum, is he not? There's uh, pretty much whole cases back there.

>whole cases
>beginning of D1

This is ignoring the fact that you yourself didn't look at said cases, and ISO'd me. Bravo.

[/quote]

[Friend]

I want to know what song TL was trying to sing up there

[TheLonging]

We Made You by Eminem. Listening to Recovery, so amazing. Maybe we could lynch DH while I'm listening to it