Mini 967 - Mafia War (Over)

[SpyreX]

That doesn't change anything. The part I forgot is where horror say he PM'ed the mods.

Which I'm looking for and don't see?

[Blackberry]

** I'll give you my initial thoughts, and then my current thoughts:

1) First coming into the game, I see Hrezs post about lynching Exemption regardless of what he claims. This immediately rose as a red flag for me. However, reading through things, I actually do agree that Exemption/CSL is scum. Whether Hrezs is bussing or is just really confident in his suspcion, I am not sure.

2) After my original readthrough, I thought Hrezs was town, Exemption was mafia, and SpyreX and Empking I was unsure of, but leaning more towards SpyreX because he indirectly defend Exemption, as I point out below. I do think SpyreX could be mafia. However, there is one detail that makes me think I could be wrong. He was adament that he had three town reads on people: (Me, Stef, and Deadjoker). Now, even if he was a mafia, I think he was being genuine. Why? Because mafia are actually genuinely scumhunting up to this point, as they want to kill off the other mafia too. And from last night's kill, we know the remaining mafia killed Deadjoker. So, if SpyreX is mafia (who obviously wants to get rid of the other mafia)- WHY would you kill someone you don't think is in the other mafia? That didn't make sense to me. Although, relooking at things, Stef was a target of one of the mafia's (although, it could have been the dead mafia) the night before. It's possible that if SpyreX was mafia he was avoiding killing the other mafia for whatever reason (BUT THIS MAKES NO SENSE TO ME).

Below are some of my notes. I DID delete some things because I changed my mind on some stuff (on whether or not it says anything about their alignment in my opinion) or because I didn't feel it was strong enough (I do feel that sometimes I will mix up playstyle/personality with whether I think someone is genuine, and I have to take that into account sometimes).

Zodiark / Hrezs
~ Post 26, “hypocrisy much” sounds over-defensive
~ Post 93, almost seems townish in this post
~ Post 177, words like “Ridiculous” are words that, in my opinion, scum use (but this is also dependable on personality)
~ Post 182, this last line “Maybe in response to my post he'll accuse me of being antitown and then I'll gain a vote”, seems like something mafia would say as a tactic to intimidate someone not to vote them

~ As someone who appears to use the same strategy as me (look for people who aren’t being genuine) – I don’t get why you didn’t call out Exemption’s Post 260

~ Post 358, The word “Weak” is something I consider scum to use to make town look bad
~ Post 448, him actually checking and looking at the VC analysis suggests he is actually looking for scum… however, at this point, there are still two mafia teams, so even if Hrezs is scum, he’d genuinely be looking for other mafia, thus, a null point

Pman / Spyrex
~ Post 48, comments on Empking, I agree with what pman says, but maybe it is a scum-scum relationship defending eachother
~ +, “There is something weird going on with Exemption with his hypocrisy over Unsight's post. I would like him to explain that.” … something with this doesn't sit well with me
~ Post 75, I agree with him that, “I am more than happy to let him defend himself, but if suspicions are put on someone whom I do not find suspicious, I will defend them.”… although at that early in the game, I am unsure whether I would defend someone… I was going to say I think it’d be too early, but if I really tried to put myself in those shoes, I think I would defend someone if I thought they were being accused by suspicious people
~ Just noting, 345, he is indirectly defending Exemption, by attacking the person who is attacking Exemption
~ Post 386, “Am I scum with horror?” – this strikes me as odd…

Exemption
~ Post 33, slips in attack at Unsight, “loving the plan you have there” seems unusual to me
~ Post 96 “isn’t everything” seems odd to me
~ Post 106 “Oh and…” doesn’t seem to me like something town would say,

~ Post 260, “Oh self vote ” – why would you be sad your suspect voted themselves? Sad indicates you feel bad that they did that, if you are town and think someone is scum, them self-voting would make you happy because it indicates you are right, which, Exemption did claim to think, “well I think that is the icing on the cake of why we should lynch you.”

--> This is the main thing I think indicates that he is scum (in my opinion). A sincere townsperson would be happy (:) not a ).

Empking
~ Post 27, “Slightly serious” gives me a town feel
~ Post 42, “serious vote”, yet doesn’t say a lot/give enough reasoning
~ Post 70 feels too aggressive to me, same with 74
~ Post 89, lots of thoughts, not sure what to make of them all, are they all genuine concerns or just trying to spread the love? ~ reread this, something is in there
~ #145, This and his last couple of posts, have all been questions, but no actual input from EmpKing, I think it is more productive to give your input after someone answers a question, rather than just asking questions to people
~ Still barely adding anything

My overall: Ok, originally I thought Exemption was mafia and all three of the others seemed like town. Rereading and rethinking everything I am not sure

at all

(obviously at least one of the three of you is mafia).

When I wrote my other long post/was on last, Hrezs struck me as the most townish (I will admit, him blantly saying he plays the game the same way I did gives me a huge bias towards him being town, but I realize a mafia could say that too - so I am testing to see if he

acts

the way he claims he is playing). Reading through things, I can't remember why I thought this at the time. Probably because Empking hasn't done anything for me to get a good read on him, and the fact that he wants to lynch who I suspect the most (obviously this could be bussing).

SpyreX's recent posts seem like small jabs to get a mislynch (I know I am clear, so I know he is barking up a wrong tree - something I know mafia would attempt to be doing at this point - although rereading his questions - I am not really sure if I am just reading his personality as something unusual to me). Like I said though, if he is mafia, that means he targetted someone he claimed to think was town (wouldn't mafia want to target people they think are mafia?).

As I've mentioned before, my problem with Empking is that he hasn't posted enough of his own thoughts for me to get a read on him. However, I do believe his claim. Although, JOAT strikes me as odd, I was expecting there to be a Cop (especailly with a Godfather). From my point of view (knowing I am the doctor), fighting two mafia groups, it makes sense for there to be a Doctor and JOAT rather than just a Doctor.

Exemption strikes me as the most scummy.

...

Although the thing that frustrates me, is the fact that I claimed

Townie

Doctor, Empking later says "Oh yeah, I am the

Townie

Detective" and nobody (EmpKing has not admitted it, Hrezs has not admitted it, SpyreX is trying to throw in small jabs and has not admitted it) indicates that as a tell that I am telling the truth.

...

Originally coming on, before I read anything, the current posts by Hrezs and EmpKing make me think maybe they're a scum pair.

Rereading, I thought SpyreX and Exemption could be a scum pair (partly due to Exemption doing nothing townworthy, and the fact that I had atleast a small post where I thought it was a genuine town player on both Hrezs and Empking, and because I believe EmpKing's claim).

Rethinknig everything, Hrezs not mentioning my

townie

doctor claim makes me unsure if they are genuinely playing the game - also the fact that he didn't call out Exemption for being insincere when using a sad face in his reaction to a self-vote.

And I feel slightly wary of Empking, although I believe his claim, he hasn't actually done anything to make me think he is town (because I can't get a read on him). And if he does turn up mafia I'll feel really bad for not calling him out on it.

...

Hrezs' (and everyone else's) response to this will greatly determine whether I think he is mafia or not. After my last post, Hrezs still suspecting me makes

me

think you are genuinely reading people's playstyle (for the reasons I've mentioned).

...

Also, I realize I am throwing a lot of thoughts out there. Overall, I am not confident in any of my ideas right now (one wrong lynch and the game is over - and I want to be confident in my judgments, and I don't feel like that will happen). Something about Hrezs not reading me as town makes me think he is mafia (almost a gut-thing). SpyreX almost seems to me at times that he is trying to get jabs in at me and get me lynched. Empking hasn't done ANYTHING to allow me to get a good read on him - and him not yet admitting that me claiming Townie Doctor and him claiming his role is actually Townie Detective and not saying that that makes him think I am sincere doesn't sit well with me either.

[Blackberry]

That doesn't change anything. The part I forgot is where horror say he PM'ed the mods.

Which I'm looking for and don't see?

The moderator mentions it in a post when he says horror asks for a replacement.

Reading through horror's last posts, it seems he sent the same exact message in forums where he was playing a game on the

14th

~ so I am assuming this is when he PMed it to the moderator - (with the night ending on the 15th).

[SpyreX]

I'm not jabbing and I thought it was very clear - if it wasn't for horror and the feel I got from him I'd want you dead to rights after that bizarro godfather business. Tack onto that this new business with PMing the mod at night AND NOT submitting an action and I'm not thrilled.

As it sits half the game is not here and CSL's "i'm going to post I promise" is more than irritating. Hrez was a top pick for scum until DJ flipped that faction soo

[Blackberry]

I'm not jabbing and I thought it was very clear - if it wasn't for horror and the feel I got from him I'd want you dead to rights after that bizarro godfather business.

I don't think you've made yourself clear, because all of your comments have a slight "jab" that you think I could be mafia either by asking a question or making a comment about my claims. Also, what is the "bizarro godfather business?"

----------

Tack onto that this new business with PMing the mod at night AND NOT submitting an action and I'm not thrilled.

If people are considering voting me because of the fact that horror PMed the mod but did not submit any night action, I could write a fairly convincing argument to the mod asking him to make it public knowledge that horror did not do anything last night (and that it does not indicate what my alignment is).

[SpyreX]

Yeaa I'm not sure how these are "jabs":

What?

You think there's a scum cop because there's a godfather?

And you claimed doctor in a multi-ball setup and didn't claim your targets?

Woooooo nelly we might have a live one here.

You have nothing to ask me that you're interested in hearing?

And you're playing tight to the chest AGAIN at lylo?

Push into overdrive as lay out and watch you dangle because this is bordering on crazy - if it wasn't for my read on horror I'd be all over this.

As it sits I'm torn on Hrez and what he was playing at as well with that last minute derail from scum to scum.

Empking's claim makes sense in the setup but I'm not overly enamored with the play.

CSL needs to talk or he's going to be the call.

As for the other I'm obviously wrong about one I'm just not sure WHICH yet.

The first is the first question the bolded is the other.

BUT:

If people are considering voting me because of the fact that horror PMed the mod but did not submit any night action, I could write a fairly convincing argument to the mod asking him to make it public knowledge that horror did not do anything last night (and that it does not indicate what my alignment is).

Yes this is the callout. Between this and "TOWNIE means I'm town even though who I replaced PM'ed the mod at night" I'm calling this ridiculousness right here.

Unvote, Vote: Blackberrry

[Blackberry]

Let me get this straight:

A) Your more suspcious of other people but you're voting me?

B) You are casting a vote this early at Lynch or Lose? especially after I said I think I could convince the mod to post in the thread that horror didn't do anything game-related? You don't want to wait to see if that is the case?

C) If you're town, you really should unvote. Although, at this point, you behavior of voting me when you suspect other people more - doesn't make any sense as you being town.

[Blackberry]

Just to reference something else I pointed out in my readthrough

~ Post 177, words like “Ridiculous” are words that, in my opinion, scum use (but this is also dependable on personality)

...

The whole townie thing is the fact that, if I was mafia, how would I know to roleclaim "Townie Doctor" vs. regular "Doctor".

Empking has confirmed that his role is "Townie Detective" not just "The Detective."

[SpyreX]

A) Your more suspcious of other people but you're voting me?

Actually I'm the most suspicious of you but horror's townieness, like I've said, is what gave me pause.

B) You are casting a vote this early at Lynch or Lose? especially after I said I think I could convince the mod to post in the thread that horror didn't do anything game-related? You don't want to wait to see if that is the case?

Ohh yea this is really early. How about you get on that "convincing the mod to change the state of the game" hail mary. Now if another vote from one of the lurkers pops up well we'll see but the chances of that happening before the heat death of the universe are slim.

C) If you're town, you really should unvote. Although, at this point, you behavior of voting me when you suspect other people more - doesn't make any sense as you being town.

See a. See b.

BUT LETS GET INTO YOUR CLEARING:

The whole townie thing is the fact that, if I was mafia, how would I know to roleclaim "Townie Doctor" vs. regular "Doctor". Empking has confirmed that his role is "Townie Detective" not just "The Detective."

Lets see if this would be hard to guess:

Me=Weird, Vanilla Townie, lynched Day 1.
Unsight, Vanilla Townie, killed Night 1.
Katsuki, Vanilla Townie, lynched Day 2.
Stef, Vanilla Townie, killed Night 2.
Soundwish, Mafia Godfather from the Benedetti family, has been lynched D3.
Deadjoker, Mafia Doctor from the Benedetti family, killed Night 3.
FakeGod Amish_Charney, Vanilla Townie, killed Night 3.

Hrmm, looks like alignment for PR's is in front of the role. And the exact term for alignment is not only given in the second post but right there!

So, yes, I think you're fully capable of pulling that out from what's given. Its not tough.

[Blackberry]

First off, you never answered my "Godfather bizarro" question.

A) Your more suspcious of other people but you're voting me?

Actually I'm the most suspicious of you but horror's townieness, like I've said, is what gave me pause.

I don't know if I buy this. Also, you haven't answered Hrezs question of why you thought horror gave off a town vibe. If you are mafia, I could see you as teaming up with someone to A) gain their trust and B) make you look better. And your asking someone if you think myself and you are scum together struck me as odd as well.

B) You are casting a vote this early at Lynch or Lose? especially after I said I think I could convince the mod to post in the thread that horror didn't do anything game-related? You don't want to wait to see if that is the case?

Ohh yea this is really early. How about you get on that "convincing the mod to change the state of the game" hail mary. Now if another vote from one of the lurkers pops up well we'll see but the chances of that happening before the heat death of the universe are slim.

You think it'd be "convincing the mod to change the state of the game" if he confirmed horror didn't send in a night action? I disagree completely.

I think it'd be unfair if the moderator did the following:

A) Replaced someone into the game (at this point, I'm either a DOCTOR or a lying MAFIA, yes?) who has a night action.
B) The moderator publically reveal that the person quit during the night, and yet not give them a replacement until the beginning of the next day.
C) Inform the player (me) that the person did not use a night ability last night due to inactivity.

* I understand why it is fairly concievable that if horror sent in a PM to the moderator, that he MUST have sent a message about his night action as well, I think it is a common assumption we would all make an assume. And because of what

did

happen, it puts me in a high disadvantage that people suspect I am lying about that when it is the truth.

D) The Moderator has already publically revealed that horror sent in a PM at night.

Also informing that horror was inactive and did not do anything game related does not reveal anything about my alignment

. If I was a mafia, the other mafia could have sent in the kill and horror not done anything. I could be a mafia with a rolepower (tracker?) that did not get to use an ability because of horror's inactivity.

The moderator revealing this information says nothing about my alignment, it only prevents that I don't get lynched due to an unfair disadvantage that I have because of the situation and horror's action and the moderator not replacing before the day began.

I am fine with people voting me if they suspect me for other reasons, but if you suspect I am lying about horror being inactive, I ask that the mod clarify that horror was inactive (as the mod's public information does suggest that horror wasn't 100% inactive).

BUT LETS GET INTO YOUR CLEARING:

The whole townie thing is the fact that, if I was mafia, how would I know to roleclaim "Townie Doctor" vs. regular "Doctor". Empking has confirmed that his role is "Townie Detective" not just "The Detective."

Lets see if this would be hard to guess:

Me=Weird, Vanilla Townie, lynched Day 1.
Unsight, Vanilla Townie, killed Night 1.
Katsuki, Vanilla Townie, lynched Day 2.
Stef, Vanilla Townie, killed Night 2.
Soundwish, Mafia Godfather from the Benedetti family, has been lynched D3.
Deadjoker, Mafia Doctor from the Benedetti family, killed Night 3.
FakeGod Amish_Charney, Vanilla Townie, killed Night 3.

Hrmm, looks like alignment for PR's is in front of the role. And the exact term for alignment is not only given in the second post but right there!

So, yes, I think you're fully capable of pulling that out from what's given. Its not tough.

A) I still don't see how it would not be "hard to guess." There is absolutely NO information indicating that the word townie would be infront of the role. No power roles have died, Mafia have died (you don't see people say "the Doctor Mafia has died", you see them say the Mafia Doctor has died). However, you do typically see it said that someone's role was "Doctor" NOT "Townie Doctor".

B) Where in the 2nd post does it say that?

[SpyreX]

I don't know if I buy this. Also, you haven't answered Hrezs question of why you thought horror gave off a town vibe. If you are mafia, I could see you as teaming up with someone to A) gain their trust and B) make you look better. And your asking someone if you think myself and you are scum together struck me as odd as well.

I'm pretty sure this was addressed waay back when when I said the stef / horror business was town.

And the latter party was Kat's push only making sense if horror and I were scum together BUT ALAS she wouldn't come out and lay a firm opinion.

A.) The pieces are there. It could be a fakeclaim, or easily pulled from it, or both of you could be scum. Although I doubt the last.
B.) Welcome to Mafia War Mafia! You are a Vanilla Townie. You were having a peaceful live before the killings started. Now, afraid of losing your own life, you have decided to make something about it. Sadly, you have no special abilities other than the your vote, which you can use to lynch scums, and hopefully, only scum.

You win when all mafia has been eliminated.

That's the exact town format. Townie is in it. Its not this drastic leap to assume the other.


But yea get back on that whole mod confirming last night one.

(and we already went over the weird logical leaps in godfather business a few pages ago if I really need to copy/paste I will)

[Blackberry]

I don't know if I buy this. Also, you haven't answered Hrezs question of why you thought horror gave off a town vibe. If you are mafia, I could see you as teaming up with someone to A) gain their trust and B) make you look better. And your asking someone if you think myself and you are scum together struck me as odd as well.

I'm pretty sure this was addressed waay back when when I said the stef / horror business was town.

And the latter party was Kat's push only making sense if horror and I were scum together BUT ALAS she wouldn't come out and lay a firm opinion.

There's a difference between saying someone is "Oozing town" (which implies you have multiple reads on them that they are acting like a townie) and thinking two people are town because they are attacking eachother like town-town would.

B.) Welcome to Mafia War Mafia! You are a Vanilla Townie. You were having a peaceful live before the killings started. Now, afraid of losing your own life, you have decided to make something about it. Sadly, you have no special abilities other than the your vote, which you can use to lynch scums, and hopefully, only scum.

You win when all mafia has been eliminated.

That's the exact town format. Townie is in it. Its not this drastic leap to assume the other.

So you're telling me if you were a mafia and you were fakeclaiming, you would know to claim TOWNIE DOCTOR instead of just DOCTOR? CSL, Hrezs, Empking - does that make sense to

you

? At this point, it appears to me that SpyreX and Exemption are ignoring eachother and are probably the scum pair (although it almost seems too obvious to be honest).

---- ---- ----

At this point, I really hope SpyreX is mafia, because if he isn't, the town is completely screwed.

[SpyreX]

.... what?

Semantics now? Semantically you're going to try to argue that I don't think horror was town (it sure appears I was wrong, but at the point).

So you're telling me if you were a mafia and you were fakeclaiming, you would know to claim TOWNIE DOCTOR instead of just DOCTOR?

CSL

, Hrezs, Empking - does that make sense to you? At this point, it appears to me that SpyreX and

Exemption

are ignoring eachother and are probably the scum pair (although it almost seems too obvious to be honest).

At this point, I really hope SpyreX is mafia, because if he isn't, the town is completely screwed.

This is some grade A flailing + AtE. You tell CSL who is exemption that I'm scum with him but put both names in?
That may be a great tipping point and Exemption and CSL are a bag of wonderful as is so I'll call the team right there.

BANG ER IN.

[Blackberry]

.... what?

Semantics now? Semantically you're going to try to argue that I don't think horror was town (it sure appears I was wrong, but at the point).

I am arguing that you are claiming to think two different things. A real townsperson has a thought. A mafia, at this point (since the other mafia is dead), fakes their thoughts on who is town and who is mafia and can't be genuine in explaining their thinking process. Saying someine is "oozing town" would mean, as a town player, you have multiple tells that indicate to you that I am town. Saying you see someone fighting as if they are town vs. town is just an observation, but not something that would give a real genuine townsperson the feeling of "oozing town." As a mafia player, you may use these terms loosely and just using the general assumption that they all mean you think someone is town. As a real townplayer, one uses their words more procisely with their thoughts.

This is some grade A flailing + AtE.

Simular to the word "weak",

these are words I consider mafia to use

(as a tactic) when they want to make someone else's argument disregarded.

You tell CSL who is exemption that I'm scum with him but put both names in?

I have no idea what you are referring to me putting "both names in"? I am well aware of CSL and Exemption being the same person. I was asking CSL his opinion on you and seeing if he agrees with your logic. Who does and doesn't agree with your logic will give me information.

[SpyreX]

Keep on keepin on.

That fight and the way it going alone was enough of a towntell that it oozed town.

I thought it was "ridiculous" that was the secret scum buzzword but now its flailing (which you are) and AtE (which you did) that are? I can't keep up.

So you went CSL who is Exemption are you scum with spyrex?? And expect some secret information with that?

Wooooooo

[Blackberry]

I thought it was "ridiculous" that was the secret scum buzzword but now its flailing (which you are) and AtE (which you did) that are? I can't keep up.

What is AtE?

So you went CSL who is Exemption are you scum with spyrex?? And expect some secret information with that?

I asked CSL if he thought your logic made sense. I didn't ask if he was your scum partner. Slipping, are you?

[Blackberry]

For the record, I looked up AtE, I can't find it (google thinks I mean "ate").

[SpyreX]

Appeal to Emotion - even after all this you're still not voting me. I mean, you're pretending to say I'm scum but cant commit of course.

I asked CSL if he thought your logic made sense. I didn't ask if he was your scum partner. Slipping, are you?

Lets try this again:

So you're telling me if you were a mafia and you were fakeclaiming, you would know to claim TOWNIE DOCTOR instead of just DOCTOR?

CSL, Hrezs, Empking - does that make sense to you?

At this point, it appears to me that SpyreX and Exemption are ignoring eachother and are probably the scum pair (although it almost seems too obvious to be honest).

Bolded establishes the subjects. Italics is a continuation. Since CSL and Exemption are the same person his subjective is:

CSL - does that make sense to you. At this point, it appears to me that you and SpyreX are ignoring each other and are probably the scum pair.

Which OHH YEA THATS SCUMSLIPPIN ON MY END yeeehaw.

[Blackberry]

I'm not voting you, because unlike you, I am not rash. I want to be confident in who I think the two mafia are before I vote them. Despite all this, I am still more confident that Exemption/CSL is mafia than you are. I'd rather convince you to Unvote, on the chance that you are town, than vote you.

-----

The italisized has nothing to do with the question. It was simply my opinion, how CSL reacts will help determine if I think you two are together.

[Hrezs]

where I come from metaing role pm wording is modkillable, thus I don't do it. I care more about what you claimed than how its worded.

Blackberry -definately- came off worse after that argument. But I've been down in the same situation(it happens to me on day 1, but this is basically his d1). BUT I never ran around asking people for help in my argument.

Spyre, you never really posted specifics about why horror was town, other than his argument with soundwish(I think) who ended up being scum, so it wasn't a town v town argument anyways.

Blackberry- the meta is based on previously playing a game with empking(that was running at the same time as this one). Where he played roughly the same(I was scum and tried to paint him as scum for his behavior, some town mentioned that he was acting like his normal town self)

And I would do anything to win this game as scum. If my best option was to not post ever then I would never post. Procrastinating on catching up is a very minor thing but its compounded with all the scumminess from before.

Also, the mod posted that as per his request, so don't blame the host for that

[Empking]

Vote: Bb

I agree that scum could pretty easily work out what to false claim, plus I don't like his complete reliance on his claim.

[Snow_Bunny]

I want to clarify something: Horrordude completely bailed out during night. I got his pm announcing the replacement just before I started D4. Should he had anything else to pm me, like a night action, a question about the game, a vla announcement, he did not send it. And please, try not to discuss about possible or hypothetical mod communication or not, as that is modkill-friendly, ok?

Mod count later this night. Hold your pants 'til then.

[CSL]

vpte: blackberry

Breaking my V/LA to say that. :)

[CSL]

EBWOP:

vote: blackberry

[CSL]

Honestly, my v/la was from my recent loss in a vengeful. So glad to see that, then hammer.