Open 236 - Pamplona Mafia (C9++) Game Over

[Beefster]

Wouldn't we know there's a serial killer if there are 2 kills in a night?

Vote: yabbaguy

[Beefster]

EBWOP: reason- for being the last player alphabetically, not starting with a capital letter.

[Beefster]

I don't either, but there was a PR flip so I'm speculating.

@yabba: Right. I overlooked the vigilante.

[Beefster]

Beefster taking a strong stance also fuels the game as well, saying that he thinks speculation is worthless (It's not!).

I never said that speculation was worthless. Read again.

I don't understand why you're attacking me for overlooking the vigilante. This is a complex setup.

My vote stands for now.

[Beefster]

I oversimplified the setup and forgot about the vigilante- that's overlooking it.
I now realize that the correct statement is if we see 4 kills on a night, we know there are 2 vigilantes and a SK. On the other hand, seeing as there was only one kill last night, it seems more likely that there isn't a SK.

Ythan was asking if it was okay to discuss vig kill on N0, most people misinterpreted. I think that Netlava's response was... odd as well. They could be scum playing off each other, maybe not.

Unvote

FoS: Ythan and Netlava

I'm not yet sure which to suspect more. I'll see about a reread/ISO tomorrow.

[Beefster]

Hoo! Long day stuck with babysitting, helping someone move, and digging dirt. I'll take a look at what's shakin.

[Beefster]

Beef, how can you suspect just me OR Net if the basis of your suspicion is that we're both scum?

Not true. It was purely speculation. I find you both suspicious from a few actions, but don't really have much of a case- thus an FoS.

[Beefster]

I'm not complaining. I'm just saying where I've been. I wanted to post earlier but couldn't.

That aside, I want to vote Netlava, but I won't because I don't think it's quite time for L-1.
I think his vote on drmy was very opportunistic.

[Beefster]

Most people these days are too lazy to type out names longer than about 5 letters. Some people even abbreviate

my

username.

Anyway, what do you mean by "of course it was on me"?

[Beefster]

Ythan- My reasons against you and Netlava are the same as the others. It was purely speculation at the time, based mostly on yabbaguy's post.
I would like to say that I'm becoming increasingly uncomfortable both with the way you've reacted to questions and answers, as well as your reasonless rolefishing.

VOTE: Ythan

[Beefster]

@Ythan: Give him the quote or someone else will.

[Beefster]

Gut doesn't cut it for me. I've found my gut doesn't work over the internet.

[Beefster]

I already voted you and I'm moving on.

[Beefster]

I thought I posted pretty recently. Maybe I just didn't feel I had anything to add. Anyway, I've been wanting to say this for a while but forgot.

I'm not liking how Ythan is refusing to (basically) defend himself calling it spoonfeeding. Recapping is NOT spoonfeeding. I'd say spoonfeeding is more like building someone else's case for them. You're obviously hiding something.

[Beefster]

@Ythan: When Alduskkel was pressing you for answers, you refused to answer him by calling it spoonfeeding. In reality you never actually answered the questions. I think it was YOU who was too lazy to read the thread and quote yourself for answers. Therefore you are hiding something.

Furthermore, I reread and did an ISO, and I'm not at all liking how overly defensive he was about Alduskkel's RANDOM vote.

My vote stands.

[Beefster]

1) You kinda contradicted yourself there, saying it was Ythan who was too lazy to go back and quote himself. That implies that the answers were there, and therefore Ythan was in the right.

^Misinterpretation. It happens. I can't read minds either.

The thought process I went through was this:
-He claims he answered the questions, which I'm not seeing.
-If he thought he answered the questions, why didn't he go back and quote what he thought to be the answer?
-He covers it up by labeling it as spoonfeeding to quote the answer he claims to have.
-I see this as hiding something because he refused to answer a question clearly.

2) Overly defensive is a scum argument. Also, to my mind, he wasn't defensive, he was attacking- trying to place pressure on a minor point to get the game going. This to my mind is slightly townish, as it reads as trying to create an argument to get the game going. I've also attacked players in the past for seemingly being unable to keep their story straight about their reasons for their random votes.

He was attacking a totally non-threatening random vote. It got the activity going, but that's not necessarily pro-town.

[Beefster]

1) You kinda contradicted yourself there, saying it was Ythan who was too lazy to go back and quote himself. That implies that the answers were there, and therefore Ythan was in the right.

^Misinterpretation. It happens. I can't read minds either.

The thought process I went through was this:
-He claims he answered the questions, which I'm not seeing.
-If he thought he answered the questions, why didn't he go back and quote what he thought to be the answer?
-He covers it up by labeling it as spoonfeeding to quote the answer he claims to have.
-I see this as hiding something because he refused to answer a question clearly.

Can you give an example of what he might be hiding?

Reasons, true intentions. Specifically, the real reason he asked the Vig question. After being pressed like 3 times, he finally cracked, but simply said it was gut. I don't trust my gut (or anyone else's for that matter) over the internet. I've seen plenty of townies that got mislynches by way of gut.

[Ythan attacked] a totally non-threatening random vote. It got the activity going, but that's not necessarily pro-town.

How can getting activity going be anti-town?

I never said anti-town. Scum may want to provoke activity more along the lines of flinging accusations or causing accusations to be flung. Not all icebreakers are pro-town.

Or perhaps being a village idiot as town thus making the rest of the town fling accusations at you. That gets the activity going, doesn't it? And I would call it anti-town. (This case is not applicable. It's just to prove a point.)

[Beefster]

*facepalm*

Let's not waste time on this crap again.

FoS: Prox

[Beefster]

I'm not complaining. I'm just saying where I've been. I wanted to post earlier but couldn't.

This makes you seem unnecessarily apprehensive.

Don't take things out of context. I was responding to another post which accused me of complaining. I felt it necessary to correct that, despite it being completely irrelevant. It was all part of an irrelevant convo.

I thought I posted pretty recently. Maybe I just didn't feel I had anything to add. Anyway, I've been wanting to say this for a while but forgot.

I'm not liking how Ythan is refusing to (basically) defend himself calling it spoonfeeding. Recapping is NOT spoonfeeding. I'd say spoonfeeding is more like building someone else's case for them. You're obviously hiding something.

Could you elaborate what Ythan is obviously hiding by not recapping?

Not exactly. I can't really tell what exactly he's hiding. If I knew, he wouldn't really wouldn't hiding anything, right?
He's hiding something along the lines of evidence or reasoning. He expects us to read his mind while reading his posts.

@Ythan: When Alduskkel was pressing you for answers, you refused to answer him by calling it spoonfeeding. In reality you never actually answered the questions. I think it was YOU who was too lazy to read the thread and quote yourself for answers. Therefore you are hiding something.

Furthermore, I reread and did an ISO, and I'm not at all liking how overly defensive he was about Alduskkel's RANDOM vote.

My vote stands.

This post doesn't make sense. So you do think Ythan was just dodging the question or that he was too lazy to go back and find them or too... Ythanic (pronounced EE-Than-ic; term soon to be patented)... to realize that he never answered the question?

Yup. You had me correct. Explain why it doesn't make sense, knowing this.

2) Overly defensive is a scum argument. Also, to my mind, he wasn't defensive, he was attacking- trying to place pressure on a minor point to get the game going. This to my mind is slightly townish, as it reads as trying to create an argument to get the game going. I've also attacked players in the past for seemingly being unable to keep their story straight about their reasons for their random votes.

He was attacking a totally non-threatening random vote. It got the activity going, but that's not necessarily pro-town.

I'll restate this in this now-serious post:

Weird, yes. But scummy? What was scum-Ythan thinking by both catalyzing discussion and bringing attention to himself? Since when is getting activity going a bad thing?

It's not bad, but is often done by scum. Getting activity going is a nulltell. Don't use it to defend him.

Clarify: You haven't explained sufficiently the reason that Ythan's attack on a nonthreatening random vote is scummy.

He has more to lose if he's scum. If you deflect votes early, you shouldn't need to deal with them later. Also, in another game, I was scum and heavily attacked a random vote with no reasoning. I feel Ythan is doing the same with similar intentions.

[Beefster]

Well, which are you suggesting? 1,2,or3?

What?

[Beefster]

But since the rest of the town think beef is scum, and he is secind on my scum list

unvote
Vote:beef

I'll go after lava again tomorow

WTF? You had a nice case going in that post before.

[Beefster]

2. It suggests that Ythan knows things. Things we don't.

And I believe he's Town.

Why? to the bolded.

[Beefster]

UNVOTE: VOTE: drmyshottyizsik

I wasn't happy with tumescence and you're certainly not compensating for what he did. I also think this lynch would bring forth more information.

[Beefster]

^^Crap. I think I mixed this up with another game. tumescence was never in this game, was he?

Nope. You're thinking of another game. ~~NS

[Beefster]

UNVOTE

for the time being.

[Beefster]

Beefster, are you unvoting to stall quickhammer, or because you confused games?

A little bit of both, but mostly the second.

[Beefster]

Ok here is my case on beefster.
All he does in this game is active lurk untill this post.

Ythan- My reasons against you and Netlava are the same as the others. It was purely speculation at the time, based mostly on yabbaguy's post.
I would like to say that I'm becoming increasingly uncomfortable both with the way you've reacted to questions and answers, as well as your reasonless rolefishing.
VOTE: Ythan

Look. You can't take things out of context like this. Just because I'm "hitching" on somebody else's reasons, doesn't mean I'm scum. I really didn't have anything special to add, and if I pushed it and added more, I would have looked more like a retard.

Not to mention that I had posted some reasons earlier.

First off he says that he has a case on both of them, but he doesn't. Then he admits to playing follow the leader. Then he says he doesnt like that people are asking and answering question. Here I was already HoSing him.

I already voted you and I'm moving on[/b]
I hate this because he is acting like once you vote someone you shouldn't have to back it up.

Once again, you can't take things like this out of context. I was responding to something Ythan said, which was along the lines of "If your so suspicious of me, why don't you vote me?" but I was already voting him.

Then he active lurks and posts long fluff and quote filled post, meaning basicly nothing.

Examples please. I know I haven't been very good about this, but you need to point these things out.

Then he gets very confused, OMGUS's me, gets confused on which game he is in again, and unvote.

I'm going to laugh when you do the same. It happens when you have the same person in 2 games you're in.

Beef is
1. Active Lurking
2. Playing anti-town

I have a pretty anti-town meta. You say you're big on meta. Why aren't you taking that into consideration?

3. Doesn't want people asking questions

Examples?

4. Dumb

I'm quite intelligent, thank you. I just lack charisma and tact.

5. confused
6. OMGUS'ing this late in the game

What? Where am I OMGUSing?

7.Still confused.

Why is

confused

such a big deal? It happens. Only scum would attack minute details like that.

Your case is absolutely retarded and reeks of scum.

FoS: drmyshottyizsik

I'm not quite sure whether I should vote or not due to his claim.

[Beefster]

For now...

VOTE: Dry Fit

CONTRIBUTE!!!

[Beefster]

Unvote, vote: Dry-Fit

Saying your top suspect is trying to scumhunt is inconsistent, as only town try to scumhunt.

Well you should be able to tell me who all the scum are right now then. Seriously do you guys not pretend to scumhunt as scum? Dr accused Ythan of not scumhunting (or not appearing to scumhunt.) I didn't see how he could see things that way.

unvote. Vote; Netlava.

Rediculous wagoning.

Does anyone else see OMGUS, or is it just me?

[Beefster]

You didn't answer my question.

And why doesn't he just replace out if he's having IRL problems sapping his time?

[Beefster]

Then what's the fuss? It's not the reason I voted him. I voted him for pressure.

[Beefster]

WIFOM much?

I really hate your voting habits, drmy. It's making me think you fakeclaimed as scum.

FoS: drmyshottyizsik

[Beefster]

Well, then, if you have such little faith in claims, I'm sure you don't have much in your own claim. If your claim turns out to be true, we really haven't lost much.

VOTE: drmyshottyizsik
Your bandwagoning and backpedaling are both awful. Your claimed role is expendable if it is true, and I can see a newbscum thinking it's a safe role to claim even though it's completely CC-able.

[Beefster]

DryFit: Do you find drmyshottyizsik suspicious? Explain.

drmy: Do you find Dryfit suspicious? Explain.

[Beefster]

PEOPLE! We need to agree on a lynch. We've got like a day left.

[Beefster]

You didn't answer my question. I'll reword it so there's no confusion.

Do you think DryFit is scum? Why or why not?

[Beefster]

Right now I'd be happy with either a DryFit or drmy lynch.

[Beefster]

And another one for drmyshottyizsik- What are your reasons for lynching me?

[Beefster]

UNVOTE
Vote: DryFit

It looks like he has more momentum and no lynch is BAD.

[Beefster]

I claim Vanilla Townie.