NY 117: The Vanillaside (Game over)

[Socrates]

This will be my first game with my new avatar. The Great Philosopher had let me down one time too many and it was time for a change. Here's hoping that Professor Layton will succeed where the Ancient Greeks could not.

Just look at those eyes. So thoughtful.

[Socrates]

Professor Layton doesn't shout. He is a class act all around.

[Socrates]

5 votes in and I already don't like this wagon.

Incog, why is that wagon better than others?

[Socrates]

@Incog: Mmm. If you are referring to what I think you are referring to, then eh. I personally have never seen that kind of thing ever actually result in a scum flip.

I hate that Professor Leyton guy already.

Then everything is going as planned.

[Socrates]

Very well.

@SSBF: Why did you vote MPR?

(In retrospect, I think I did this in the wrong order.)

[Socrates]

Socrates, can you go ahead and claim scum, please?

Okay. I am a Werewolf roleblocker.

[Socrates]

vote: Socrates

Don't seem to remember you preferring to go without a random vote.

I random vote only very occasionally. Even then I usually have some kind of reason behind it.

The only game we played together I didn't random vote, so I don't know where you get that characterization.

Alright.

Vote: Socrates

Korts is right on the money though not for the reasons he thinks.

I am intrigued.

As for killing Reck, it might save on a lot of headaches, but I don't think it would benefit the town much strategically. Redirector can still cause a lot of hell even without vanillaizing people and the cost is too high.

[Socrates]

One it was because it was RVS. Two was to help form a bandwagon on him to see how he would react. So far, it's working.

You consider a second vote on a player a bandwagon vote?

[Socrates]

Hey, I found a sheep.

Do you consider me scummy, MPR?

@Seraphim: well, if its gut, then there is not much I can say.

[Socrates]

Hey, I found a sheep.

Do you consider me scummy, MPR?

Not particularly. It's a perfectly valid thought that you might have just had the same idea as me, but voiced it later. I just thought it would be of note.

Huh. I'm playing carefully. I need to accuse people of being scum randomly more.

Then who IS scummy?

[Socrates]

SSBF: Do you have a recent scum game you can link me to? More than one would be awesome.

[Socrates]

When I questioned Incognito about his vote, he responded too quickly and with too much detail for it to be something that he just bullshitted in order to hop on a wagon. Incognito starts off in the town camp.

Korts drew on meta information when he was considering me indicating a genuine attempt at evaluation even though his meta information was incorrect. Suggesting a lynch on the confirmed town player would also take a lot of balls as scum.

Seraphim vote on me contains elements of self doubt and he did not try to sell his vote as more than it was, but he also didn't seem to be afraid of stepping on my toes. He is likely town.

In my previous experience of MPR, he lurked like a champ, while when he was town his lurking was only amateurish, and this is the most active I have ever seen him. However, multiple players in the game are aware of his meta (see: the sign up thread) and a scum MPR would have a large motivation to attempt to break that meta. He also commits the deadly sin of bringing up his own meta in defense. I don't consider his response to the wagon that built up on him particularity remarkable. His post calling me a "sheep" looked like he was going to jump on my counterwagon, but he didn't follow through. Slight town points there. When asked for some scum reads, he responded as I expected him to do as town. He didn't BS any reads together in order to fit some appearance of "scumhunting" and simply stated that he did not see anything extremely scummy, which is something I sympathize with. I currently like him as town right now.

SSBF is going full speed ahead on his MPR vote, and I asked to see his meta because I was curious if he was the type to be so unsubtle when scum. In Mini 988, the game he linked me, he does start off forcefully, using strong words such as "lie", "ridiculous", and refers to another player's play as "terrible", so this kind of play would not be out of character for him as scum. Something about the way he answered my questions to him doesn't sit well with me either, though I can't articulate why.

Right now I believe that the scum have yet to make any overt moves, for the most part. At most 1 scum has made more than 3 or 4 posts and I would like to spin this onto one of the background players so far.

vote: Demon Hybrid

Thoughts on anything other than MPR?

[Socrates]

its weird how the two players I called out in my last post have both had wagons develop on them in less then a page. I should probably step away from this game before I start talking myself in circles.

[Socrates]

Ray and Demon butting heads like this is remarkable as they are both voting for SSBF still.

How likely do you consider each other to be scum? Has this effected your read of SSBF?

[Socrates]

unvote, vote:Vezo

Is anyone else scum? Any town reads? Which post, specifically, made you think Demon Hybrid is scum?

[Socrates]

The incessant pressure from other players to come up with independent reasons for ones opinions (thus being forced to ignore the cases other players put forward) and never ever back down from them for fear of being "inconsistent" is probably one of the greatest failings of what is traditionally thought of as good town play.

In my opinion, of course.

[Socrates]

Does that make me town or scum?

The only reason I bothered to make that statement is because of my aforementioned town read of you, though I am not ready to take that read to the bank.

I don't think you action is indicative of alignment at all and was more lamenting the tell itself more than anything.

[Socrates]

Scum will certainly try to redirect people to me, but that would involve targeting me, which involves them losing their redirector, Korts.

Seriously, me dying is a stupid idea.

Somebody didn't read the rules.

[Socrates]

Vezo:

Is anyone else scum? Any town reads? Which post, specifically, made you think Demon Hybrid is scum?

[Socrates]

I need to look into some stuff. NO HAMMERS.

Vezo, In the meantime, perhaps I was unclear about my question. What was the first post you read of DH that you said "oh hey that guy's scum."? In fact, point to a specific sentence.

[Socrates]

I couldn't find what I was looking for. Forget it.

[Socrates]

I was looking for evidence of the rolecop being used. It felt like people were committing to various wagons quickly and suddenly, so it got me wondering. I didn't find anything specific to key in on, though.

[Socrates]

You know, if someone asked me before the game started who was most likely to be lynched day 1, I would have said Vezo, and here we are. This makes me extremely uncomfortable.

I notice Incog posted elsewhere on site today, but not here. He is probably busy setting up his /in-vitational game and it is kind of unreasonable to expect someone to post every day, so feh. But still. More discomfort.

Where are the scumbuddies?
Where is the counterwagon?

Too many no names, Too many questions in my head, this wagon was too easy. too many "too"s.

mrm...

unvote

I need to reread.

[Socrates]

No.

This wagon has none of the trademark qualities of the scum lynch.

Vezopiraka's behavior is not that of a scumbag. ESPECIALLY one that can rely on other players for advice and coaching.

There was no counterwagon.

There was no hesitation. Every person on this wagon is an eager beaver ready to do their part.

This wagon will not result in a scum lynch. Mark my words. If you simply must deal with Vezo, let the vig kill them with extreme prejudice.

But you know who DID have a counterwagon? Who people DID hesitate to call scum? Who's wagon conveniently disappeared when Vezo started posting? Who's place on the Vezo wagon makes my teeth on edge?

THATS RIGHT I'M LOOKING AT YOU.

VOTE: Demon Hybrid

[Socrates]

Wow post 244 is bad.

I apologize DH. I appears I was wrong about you. (Don't think you're completely off the hook, though.)

unvote, vote:SSBF

Jack has failed to materialize.

@Korts: Seraphim will be getting the evil eye if SSBF flips scum, you can count on that.

[Socrates]

Okay Spyrex, you are the next contestant on...

IS IT DUMB OR IS IT SCUMB!?

Its been pretty established that Vezo's posts have been really dumb and he doesn't seem to have the firmest grasp of the English language.

What has been noticeably NOT established is whether or not those posts came from dumbscum or dumbtown.

The only

scummy

thing Vezo has done is the DH vote, which does not justify the wagon he had.

And abandoning a wagon because someone said "there's scum on that there wagon!" would be really dumb considering that there is scum on EVERY WAGON EVER.

[Socrates]

Yep Spy, all you got is that one reason to cling to your Vezo vote, which I already pointed out myself. Are you seriously telling me that one bad vote is enough for your gung-ho attitude for the Vezo wagon?

If vezo flips scum I will take my mislynch like a man.

And it would be kinda hard for Vezo to be scum and NOT a power role since all three scum are power roles.

[Socrates]

This game.

Please let someone CC SSBF because I don't want to deal with this shit.

unvote

Tomorrow.

[Socrates]

Hey guys, real life issues have left me with surprise V/LA for the next 3 days. What time I will have will probably be sucked up by my modded game which just filled up. I'll try and post if I can, but don't count on it.

[Socrates]

^ mostly sums up how I feel right now.

Hey Spy, any response to Fate?

What happened to your Vezok Hate with a capital H?

Fate, thoughts on Rayfrost?

Is that blatant wagoning I spy from you Elli?

I'm honestly not sure where to go right now. That Seraph wagon was among the dumbest wagons I had ever seen. (Almost as bad as my own lynch in GoW mafia, eh Fate?) I tend to agree with Spy that the wagon was heavily scum driven, but there were a whole lot of votes on that wagon that I didn't like, including his own. At least some of them had to come from town.

Scum will be primarily found in the drivers of the wagon yesterday, not the hanger's on, I feel right now.

Going in the think tank. Will post tomorrow.

[Socrates]

Scratch that question, Fate.

[Socrates]

Eh, fuck.

MOD: I need to replace out.

I hate my life.

Final guess on the scumbags:

Jack
DH
Elli

I doubt anybody here can tell me that Jack is playing like he usually does. I remember him remarking that he dislikes playing scum. I do too, and you know what I do when I get a role I don't like? I lurk.

Spy probably ain't scum from where I am standing. Korts is more questionable, but let him post. He keeps prod dodging like he has, kill him.

Elli needs a wagon on his ass before the day is out. Nacho too. Stop tunneling and stop ignoring the lurkers.

Catch you guys later.

[Socrates]

I SOOO wanted to replace back into this game once I had time available. Jack was obv scum. DH was too. I had Red coyote as scum the second he me made his first post upon replacing in, though I probably would have lynched Elli over him first.

The town should be embarrassed about the Seraph, MPR, and Vezo lynches. Particularly the Seraph one.

I don't feel the scum had any significant advantage over the town in terms of the setup, this town just played terribly and mislynched 4 times in a row. The only shifty thing I think is the fact that the vanilized power roles having no indication whatsoever that they were power. The mere presence of the Vanillizer and the redirector nerfs the power roles enough without also introducing uncertainty about whether or not the roles were alive. But even that was only a problem because the power roles were caught so quickly. so, eh. Also, my power was kinda pointless with 2 different false returns on it. I think it would be better as a normal cop so that you could at least be confident with one kind of result. I think that would be better than getting rid of the GF.