Newbie 960 - Game Over

[I Am Innocent]

In that case, why would andrew unvote?

Do you admit that three votes on three separate players was a terrible move to start the day? The only way it wasn't is if 1) one vote was on a mafia and both mafia had votes out there already or 2) two votes were on mafia players and one mafia vote was already out there.

If having all those votes out there is bad, the best way to back off of a scummy move is to unvote. Otherwise, townies will catch on from a lack of piling on like I am catching onto you.

Also, FoSing me at this stage makes absolutely no sense. Here's a tip for improving your scum play: don't be afraid to close your options.

Lol. I'm in no rush...why are you??? I'm willing to last the full 2 weeks if need be. Actually if I see Locke and Equinox on at the same time and they don't pile on me, I'll have my evidence that you are scum. If they do pile on, well, I'll have someone else to blame for the loss.

[Nikanor]

Do you admit that three votes on three separate players was a terrible move to start the day? The only way it wasn't is if 1) one vote was on a mafia and both mafia had votes out there already or 2) two votes were on mafia players and one mafia vote was already out there.

Quickhammers aren't as prevalent in 5p lylo as most people make them out to be. So no.
Also, this has nothing to do with what you quoted.

Lol. I'm in no rush...why are you??? I'm willing to last the full 2 weeks if need be. Actually if I see Locke and Equinox on at the same time and they don't pile on me, I'll have my evidence that you are scum. If they do pile on, well, I'll have someone else to blame for the loss.

Waiting for no reason is a waste of time.
If we assume you are town for a minute, here's what things should look like from your perspective:
Scenario a) I'm town and you're town. I'm not showing any signs of being willing to unvote, so the game would be lost already in this scenario and there would be no harm in voting for me.
Scenario b) I'm scum and you're town. Voting for me in this scenario is good, obviously. This seems to be the way you're leaning as well.

So when you say that you're in no rush, that's not actually an excuse for not voting.

[I Am Innocent]

Do you admit that three votes on three separate players was a terrible move to start the day? The only way it wasn't is if 1) one vote was on a mafia and both mafia had votes out there already or 2) two votes were on mafia players and one mafia vote was already out there.

Quickhammers aren't as prevalent in 5p lylo as most people make them out to be. So no.
Also, this has nothing to do with what you quoted.

Yes, but note there was a second paragraph of mine that you conveniently left off on your reply that follows it up/explains it better.

Waiting for no reason is a waste of time.
If we assume you are town for a minute, here's what things should look like from your perspective:
Scenario a) I'm town and you're town. I'm not showing any signs of being willing to unvote, so the game would be lost already in this scenario and there would be no harm in voting for me.
Scenario b) I'm scum and you're town. Voting for me in this scenario is good, obviously. This seems to be the way you're leaning as well.

So when you say that you're in no rush, that's not actually an excuse for not voting.

Waiting is not hurting the game at this point. You being stubborn with your vote could cost us though if you are indeed town.

[Locke Lamora]

This is entertaining. The question is, are you both scum or just one of you? What do you think of Nik-Equinox, IAI?

[I Am Innocent]

This is entertaining. The question is, are you both scum or just one of you? What do you think of Nik-Equinox, IAI?

What would have been the point to vote her partner and then unvote him right away? I think scum would have wanted votes out there at that point, and probably for as many individual townies as possible. I think had she unvoted him and voted someone else, I'd be more wary.

Also, a Nik/Equinox team would have been much better off killing you or Andrew N2. Not a new player who may have ended up being on her side.

I think the chances that those two are scum teammates are pretty low.

[andrew94]

ermm the 2 wolves timeline is prob different. so when they can see one vote one of them is afraid to vote and instead waits for his/her partner to vote so he can pile on it.
however, the partner might be thinking the same thing

so instead they have to wait for 2 votes on a person, then they hammer

[Equinox]

andrew94 makes a good point.

Though the distinct lack of vote piling makes me wonder if I Am Innocent isn't scum. Then again, nobody's been posting at the same time...

I said I'd look through people's posts, but I haven't gotten around to doing that yet.

Locke Lamora, if I were scum and wanted to distance from my partner, I wouldn't do it in LyLo when Nikanor is already receiving heat. Just sayin'.

[I Am Innocent]

Though the distinct lack of vote piling makes me wonder if I Am Innocent isn't scum.

There is another explanation. The lack of piling on could mean that one scum has already voted for me.

[Equinox]

Possibly. That would be a brave move, yes.

[I Am Innocent]

ermm the 2 wolves timeline is prob different. so when they can see one vote one of them is afraid to vote and instead waits for his/her partner to vote so he can pile on it.
however, the partner might be thinking the same thing

I don't buy it.

Either Locke/Equinox are scum who have not been on at the same time to pile on, or Nik is scum.

[Equinox]

Equinox and Locke Lamora haven't been on at the same time. (I know I'm not scum anyway, so...)

What makes you think andrew94's explanation isn't plausible?

[I Am Innocent]

Possibly. That would be a brave move, yes.

Why brave? 50/50 chance at a win D3. If they don't win D3, Nik could think his teammate is a "lock" to win D4 (no pun intended... )

[I Am Innocent]

What makes you think andrew94's explanation isn't plausible?

There was so much back and forth with you and andrew it would have been easy for you to say "Fine, Vote I am Innocent" and then him hammer.

With andrew and Locke, they posted in what was very late hours for me. They appeared to be the only 2 on at that point based on who was posting at the time.

Both could have ended the game if they were scum teammates imo.

[Equinox]

We're a volatile crowd. That's risking 3 townies quick-lynching. (I know that's kind of a stretch, but... it's a possibility in a realm of possibilities.)

Hmm... I see what you're saying, though. Some of us may be willing to lynch Nikanor, but we don't have the buddy yet.

EBWOPreview: andrew94-Equinox team was impossible from the start. He's been accusing me since the beginning of time; that's too much to be considered bussing or distancing. I see your point about andrew94 and Locke Lamora posting at the same time... Hmm. It was just those two posts, though, so it's harder to tell. (I don't think that's the scum team we're looking for, anyway.)

I still say andrew94's explanation is plausible. For all we know, he's posting his own thoughts on the matter.

[I Am Innocent]

In a 2 hour, 11 minute period, the three players {Andrew, Equinox, Nikanor} were around and made the following moves:

Andrew voted Equinox
Equinox voted Nikanor (8 minutes later)
Nikanor vote IAI (36 minutes after Equinox vote)
Equinox unvoted Nikanor (4 minutes after Nik's vote)
Andrew unvoted Equinox (1 hour, 23 minutes after Equinox's unvote)

It all keeps coming back to this for me.

If Nikanor was town, why vote here. By adding his vote, 3 single players had a vote, at least one of which has to be townie.

If nothing else changes, game will be over

. I think the right move for Nikanor would have been trying to get people to unvote until everyone FOS'd and some discussion was made. I just can't get past this.

Thankfully, Equinox made the right move and unvoted

. Whether it was a scum ploy or not, we will have to wait until D4 to figure that out. But what I do know is that the lack of piling on me and the careless 3rd vote makes me feel comfortable moving this game forward.

vote: Nikanor

[Locke Lamora]

I didn't say I thought you-Nik was a likely team, Equinox. I just wanted to know what IAI thought of it.

This is all working out well, I'm feeling pretty confident Andrew is town. Don't really know why scum would leave him alive if they were going to create this situation.

[Equinox]

Don't really know why scum would leave him alive if they were going to create this situation.

I think the current situation was unexpected. andrew94 may have been universally accepted as town as of Day 2, but his eye had been Equinox for most of the game, and it was unlikely that he'd ever move off; it would've been easy to get him to lead a mislynch and lose the game.

A miracle happened... and he unvoted. Yep, unexpected it was.

[inHimshallibe]

Vote count to come soonish.

[Locke Lamora]

I don't think Nik and Equinox are scum together. ToG went after Equinox quite early on and it doesn't read as distancing to me. I think we're looking at IAI-Equinox or IAI-Nikanor. Sue me if I'm wrong.

Vote: I Am Innocent

[Nikanor]

Equinox: It might be because andrew isn't as big an idiot as you seem to be making him out to be.
Locke: Yay.

If Nikanor was town, why vote here. By adding his vote, 3 single players had a vote, at least one of which has to be townie. If nothing else changes, game will be over. I think the right move for Nikanor would have been trying to get people to unvote until everyone FOS'd and some discussion was made. I just can't get past this.

Nonsense. Even if that was the ideal move for me to make, you can't call me scummy for not taking that path.

[andrew94]

look nik equniox and me were on at that time

equinox 1 andrew
iai 1 nik
nik 1 equinox

so if equinox was town, wolves cant finish the game becos equinox wont vote herself
if nik was town, wolves still cant finish game becos nik wont vote himself
if iai is town, me and equinox could hammer(but since im not wolf, plus my vote was on equinox at the time)


also @ iai i believe my point of timeline and wolf scarediness is valid
no wolf would dare to put the 2nd vote even if a townie voted another person becos the first peron could 'haha unvoted!'
so the more active person would be waiting until his partner came on(but then his partner might be toilet or something) so the first person can unvote.
so both wolves dont wanna get revealed for the 2nd vote. THEREFORE only way wolves can win is if 2 townies vote a person then he hammers......
that was the point i was making

[I Am Innocent]

Nikanor, I am calling you scummy not just for "not taking that path.", but for the path you took. Scum would love to have 3 single votes out there.

With andrew not hammering, with either have a Nik/Locke team or Nik/Equinox team. I'm guessing the former, and they are throwing in all their chips right now hoping for the quick win.

[Equinox]

equinox 1 andrew
iai 1 nik
nik 1 equinox

I unvoted. Locke Lamora voted I Am Innocent.

Equinox: It might be because andrew isn't as big an idiot as you seem to be making him out to be.

Apparently. It seems I've been underestimating him for most of the game. I'll say more in post-game.

---

This was

really

unexpected. I never thought I would get to decide whether or not to hammer. (I'm not deciding hammer, but hey.)

I haven't read all that stuff I said I would, so I'll have to

find the motivation to

get around to that.

andrew94, you should probably vote. Waiting for me before voting would be fine, too, though I hope you'll consider rereading the game before voting.

[I Am Innocent]

We have a winner, Nik/Locke.

Interesting dilemna. I know who the scum are. If Nik goes down D3, Locke can't NK me because then BOTH Equinox and Andrew would be proven Townie for not hammering me. So basically Locke and I would vote for each other, and whoever isn't NK'd determines the game. Our chances at a win just went dramatically up.

[Equinox]

Okay. I think I'm done. My final^(?) thoughts on this matter:

I Am Innocent gave me a good town feel for most of the game. If it weren't for all the cases people pushed against him, I would not have even considered looking at this slot. I looked at Netopalis's case. While I trust his judgment, the other factors -- Nikanor's and Locke Lamora's votes -- place me right back to square one, and it makes me doubt. I apologize if I am wrong here, but I do not think I Am Innocent is the play today.

ToG gave me a slight town feel for most of Day 1. His willingness to post his reads made him appear honest, and his attack on Equinox for posting a vote count spreadsheet seemed a bit reckless. All of this was reversed on Day 2 with his active lurking and lack of contribution. A significant amount of time passed before he got replaced, and from what I can tell, ToG never really said anything about not being able to participate. Ding. Nikanor's initial refusal to post stuff heightens my paranoia.

Sigh.

I apologize if I make the wrong decision here.

VOTE: Nikanor

andrew94: Please reread the game and then decide. The game's on you now.