A Clash of Kings - A Divided Kingdom


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Post Post #1625 (ISO) » Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:14 am

Post by Mina »

Please do something scummy right now, Cow, to give me hope. This is making me feel like shit. If I hadn't opened my big mouth, Rifka or Macavitar might have been investigated.

Rifka, I understand the temptation to say "I'm confirmed, now leave me alone and let me coast for the rest of the game" (particularly when you're falling behind and don't want to work to look town). But instead of trying to push your own scan, you just said, "candles are pretty!" So it was hard to tell how sincere you were being.

That said, I think you have a great point about MagnaofIllusion. I'd like to take a hard look at those on that Cow scan, because people who had other suspicions didn't push their own choices.

I know that Locke and Thor did the same thing.

diddin, I'll link to a few completed town games:

In the Fables game I played with danakillsu, I got into a bit of trouble for this post. I was basically the only person who didn't like the kpaca wagon. He was town, though, and ended up replaced and escaping the lynch by a total fluke.

This game was a no-reveal game, so although the player I white-knighted was town, no one knew it until the end of the game. A townie thought it would be a good idea to prepare a fake code to claim finder (Westeros terminology for "cop") and selflessly attract a nightkill, and an even better idea to use that code at L-1 to save himself from a lynch. I was the only one who bought his story. So since everyone was positive that he had to be scum, I looked like his only potential buddy by process of elimination, leading to me being forced to claim doctor ten minutes before the deadline, getting counterclaimed by one of the killers the next day, and somehow escaping the lynch because I was so paranoid about the confirmed vigilante that no one could believe I'd be that crazy as scum. Memorable (and embarrassing) game.

Oh, and for proof that self-deprecation isn't a scumtell for me, see mentat's response to Sir Thursday's quote of this post.

This game is a bit hard to follow, because it's alted, and since then we've changed all the alts to
The Wire
characters for another game. At the time, my alt was House Grandison, but my posts are now under the name Detective Carver. In this kingmaker game, everyone--EVERYONE--in the game wanted to lynch the same killer (House Cerwyn/Lieutenant Daniels) on D1, and yet I somehow executed someone else because "Cerwyn sounded kind of genuine in that one sentence!" But I was still killed on N1 anyway, because everyone alt-guessed me and I was playing 100% to my town meta (angst and panicky indecision). (Off-topic: Percy-scum reminds me a lot of House Yarwyck/Bubbles in that game.)
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Post Post #1626 (ISO) » Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:21 am

Post by vezokpiraka »

Why would you want to take my vote away?
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Post Post #1627 (ISO) » Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:41 am

Post by Mina »

*twitch*

*twitch* *twitch* *twitch*

*twitch*

EBWOP: That "I know that Locke and Thor did the same thing" was an unfinished thought. Basically, they also wanted the Cow scan to go through as quickly as possible. So I'd started wondering if a town player might also have a motivation for rushing the worthiness-proving, but then realized I shouldn't give players like MoI and Macavitar alibis before answering my questions. Probably should've deleted that sentence.
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Post Post #1628 (ISO) » Tue Jul 27, 2010 7:06 am

Post by Eddard Stark »

Votecount 3.8 The '
"I don't imply, Frey. I say what I mean straight out, like an honest man. But what would you know of the ways of honest men? You're a treacherous lying weasel, like all your kin. I'd sooner drink a pint of piss than take the word of any Frey"
' votecount.


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Thread title has been changed to something more appropriate! :D
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Post Post #1629 (ISO) » Tue Jul 27, 2010 7:08 am

Post by xvart »

Sorry peeps. I'll get a post up tonight sometime.

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Post Post #1630 (ISO) » Tue Jul 27, 2010 7:13 am

Post by Benmage »

Locke Lamora wrote:Can we like, take Vezo's vote away or something?
Tomorrow. With Thor's wolfy.

Cow was the best one to make holy.

(Gonna go iso SSBF)
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Post Post #1631 (ISO) » Tue Jul 27, 2010 7:56 am

Post by Mikujin »

Macavitar wrote:
Mikujin wrote:The reason it lacks content is because it was supposed to. It was a big, pretentious list, which held as much weight as your "What do you have to hide?" argument. If I don't step forward after your call out, I'm scum. If I do step forward after your call out, I'm scum. Do you not see how flawed that is?

I hadn't posted in two days when I did the step forward, and you're attempting to use that timing to paint an ugly picture.
Do you think you would have stepped forward had I not said anything? When you posted then, had you noticed everyone else in the game had a bolded Step Forward in their posts?
The answer ends up being WIFOM no matter how I answer it (coulda-woulda-shoulda).
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Post Post #1632 (ISO) » Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:08 am

Post by Unsight »

Benmage wrote:
Locke Lamora wrote:Can we like, take Vezo's vote away or something?
Tomorrow. With Thor's wolfy.

Cow was the best one to make holy.

(Gonna go iso SSBF)
Why are you "gonna go iso SSBF" now? I go ISO people after a flip because it's new information with which to read their posts and there's usually a new perspective to gauge their comments. Saying you're "gonna go iso" the main wagon out of the blue makes it seem like you haven't actually been paying attention to that person.
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Post Post #1633 (ISO) » Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:14 am

Post by Benmage »

Unsight wrote:
Benmage wrote:
Locke Lamora wrote:Can we like, take Vezo's vote away or something?
Tomorrow. With Thor's wolfy.

Cow was the best one to make holy.

(Gonna go iso SSBF)
Why are you "gonna go iso SSBF" now? I go ISO people after a flip because it's new information with which to read their posts and there's usually a new perspective to gauge their comments. Saying you're "gonna go iso" the main wagon out of the blue makes it seem like you haven't actually been paying attention to that person.
I said I have to go back and read him several times. You wait until someone dies? So you have perfect reads of everyone living? Oh wait, than why would you have to go back and read them when they die...conundrum. I've been meaning to look at him for awhile, but I keep putting my attention elsewhere. With the growing wagon on him he seems to be a boosted priority.
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Post Post #1634 (ISO) » Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:16 am

Post by Unsight »

Rifka Viveka wrote:
Mina wrote:
Rifka, why did you light a candle for yourself?
For the WIFOM value?

Actually, i was curious to see if magnaofillusion would actually follow up on that suspicion of me, but didnt make the slightest effort to do so. Reading his ISO, he seems to have an entirely reactionary playing, sharply making points on posts throughout the game, but never seeming to actually initiate attacks(my perception anyway) difficult player for me getting a read on... Plus, being confirmed=sit back and have a lemonade in the shade as far as defending goes

Im pretty sure i know what the follow up responses to this^ will be(im cynical like that), but ill let you state it in your own words
Are you reading the same game as I am? Magna initiated two attacks on me and followed up with a vote. If you were actually reading his ISO, you should have seen those immediately.

Also, what value is there for the town in meaningless WIFOM? Who are you helping with that? If you're pro-town then it's in your best interest to scan someone who might be scum, not generate meaningless WIFOM and play for town cred. That's scum behavior.
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Post Post #1635 (ISO) » Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:21 am

Post by Unsight »

Benmage wrote:
Unsight wrote:
Benmage wrote:
Locke Lamora wrote:Can we like, take Vezo's vote away or something?
Tomorrow. With Thor's wolfy.

Cow was the best one to make holy.

(Gonna go iso SSBF)
Why are you "gonna go iso SSBF" now? I go ISO people after a flip because it's new information with which to read their posts and there's usually a new perspective to gauge their comments. Saying you're "gonna go iso" the main wagon out of the blue makes it seem like you haven't actually been paying attention to that person.
I said I have to go back and read him several times. You wait until someone dies? So you have perfect reads of everyone living? Oh wait, than why would you have to go back and read them when they die...conundrum. I've been meaning to look at him for awhile, but I keep putting my attention elsewhere. With the growing wagon on him he seems to be a boosted priority.
Where do you feel you've spent the majority of your attention?
Games are meant to be fun.
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Post Post #1636 (ISO) » Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:23 am

Post by Benmage »

Unsight wrote:
Benmage wrote:
Unsight wrote:
Benmage wrote:
Locke Lamora wrote:Can we like, take Vezo's vote away or something?
Tomorrow. With Thor's wolfy.

Cow was the best one to make holy.

(Gonna go iso SSBF)
Why are you "gonna go iso SSBF" now? I go ISO people after a flip because it's new information with which to read their posts and there's usually a new perspective to gauge their comments. Saying you're "gonna go iso" the main wagon out of the blue makes it seem like you haven't actually been paying attention to that person.
I said I have to go back and read him several times. You wait until someone dies? So you have perfect reads of everyone living? Oh wait, than why would you have to go back and read them when they die...conundrum. I've been meaning to look at him for awhile, but I keep putting my attention elsewhere. With the growing wagon on him he seems to be a boosted priority.
Where do you feel you've spent the majority of your attention?
Finding out who is scum, and who is not. What have you done with your time?
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Post Post #1637 (ISO) » Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:28 am

Post by Benmage »

@Unsight
, do you iso living players?
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Post Post #1638 (ISO) » Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:37 am

Post by Rifka Viveka »

Locke Lamora wrote:Lighting a candle for yourself was your attempt to find out if Magna's suspicion of you was genuine? What were you expecting the pro-town reaction to be?
I dont like the way this is phrased...but its just one small part of trying to gain a perspective on magna.

Now unsights reaction to my response is def more along the lines of what im looking for out of scum...im seeing painting here.
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Post Post #1639 (ISO) » Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:42 am

Post by Unsight »

Benmage wrote:
@Unsight
, do you iso living players?
Of course. I usually do so right after day begins if I have time and especially so if there's relevant new information (such as a scumflip). That said, I don't need to run out and ISO someone when they get a wagon like you apparently do. So what are your pre-ISO thoughts on SSBF? Do you have any?
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Post Post #1640 (ISO) » Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:43 am

Post by Rifka Viveka »

Unsight wrote: Are you reading the same game as I am? Magna initiated two attacks on me and followed up with a vote. If you were actually reading his ISO, you should have seen those immediately.
I disagree...the ''attacks'' on you were more responsive in nature, i feel...and thats fine, its a style. When i think of attack i think of percy wall post on d2 starting, thats not a violent reaction to a scummy post, but a heavy push.
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Post Post #1641 (ISO) » Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:47 am

Post by Unsight »

Rifka Viveka wrote:
Unsight wrote: Are you reading the same game as I am? Magna initiated two attacks on me and followed up with a vote. If you were actually reading his ISO, you should have seen those immediately.
I disagree...the ''attacks'' on you were more responsive in nature, i feel...and thats fine, its a style. When i think of attack i think of percy wall post on d2 starting, thats not a violent reaction to a scummy post, but a heavy push.
Moving the goal posts is a mighty convenient way of backpedaling.
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Post Post #1642 (ISO) » Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:48 am

Post by Benmage »

@Unsight,
You iso everyone as soon as a new day occurs?
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Post Post #1643 (ISO) » Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:55 am

Post by Unsight »

Benmage wrote:
@Unsight,
You iso everyone as soon as a new day occurs?
In smaller games, definitely.

In larger games, I ISO the dead, followed by my suspects, followed by whoever else I can fit in. Time is the only limiting factor. Sometimes I can do everyone, sometimes it's only the first six people. No reason not to if I have the opportunity.
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Post Post #1644 (ISO) » Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:01 am

Post by Macavitar »

Mina wrote:I shouldn't give players like MoI and Macavitar alibis before answering my questions.
What questions are those exactly? I don't see any addressed directly to me. If you're referring to why I would switch to hascow over Mikujin, well I think that by the time I switched it was self-evident that hascow's investigation was going to happen either way. May as well speed things up. I think you said something about people not arguing for other targets, but I stated pretty clearly why I felt Mikujin was a good investigation target. If the mass of town doesn't want to follow that, so be it. The reasoning was provided. Second, I stated way earlier that hascow was an acceptable investigation to me. If the town was going there regardless of what I said, then I'm not going to waste my time typing out a huge post that isn't going to mean anything anyhow. Mikujin still looks scummy to me, but we'll just have to lynch him straight up now.

Also, I asked you the question about white knighting in other games...not diddin :P I'll review them as soon as I get some time.
Mikujin wrote:The answer ends up being WIFOM no matter how I answer it (coulda-woulda-shoulda).
95% of this game is WIFOM. Stop dodging questions and freaking answer them. Hope you are noting all of this sidestepping Mina. I honestly don't see how I could be highlighting Miku's scummy behavior anymore than I already am.
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Post Post #1645 (ISO) » Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:06 am

Post by Unsight »

Macavitar wrote:
Mina wrote:I shouldn't give players like MoI and Macavitar alibis before answering my questions.
What questions are those exactly? I don't see any addressed directly to me. If you're referring to why I would switch to hascow over Mikujin, well I think that by the time I switched it was self-evident that hascow's investigation was going to happen either way. May as well speed things up. I think you said something about people not arguing for other targets, but I stated pretty clearly why I felt Mikujin was a good investigation target. If the mass of town doesn't want to follow that, so be it. The reasoning was provided. Second, I stated way earlier that hascow was an acceptable investigation to me. If the town was going there regardless of what I said, then I'm not going to waste my time typing out a huge post that isn't going to mean anything anyhow. Mikujin still looks scummy to me, but we'll just have to lynch him straight up now.

Also, I asked you the question about white knighting in other games...not diddin :P I'll review them as soon as I get some time.
Mikujin wrote:The answer ends up being WIFOM no matter how I answer it (coulda-woulda-shoulda).
95% of this game is WIFOM. Stop dodging questions and freaking answer them. Hope you are noting all of this sidestepping Mina. I honestly don't see how I could be highlighting Miku's scummy behavior anymore than I already am.
"Hope you are noting all of this sidestepping Mina."

What is the purpose of addressing Mina specifically here?
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Post Post #1646 (ISO) » Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:10 am

Post by Mikujin »

Macavitar wrote:
Mikujin wrote:The answer ends up being WIFOM no matter how I answer it (coulda-woulda-shoulda).
95% of this game is WIFOM. Stop dodging questions and freaking answer them. Hope you are noting all of this sidestepping Mina. I honestly don't see how I could be highlighting Miku's scummy behavior anymore than I already am.
You want me to answer questions that are going to give you no information, whatsoever. Regardless of how I answer any of your questions, you've made up your mind. Just to feed your gluttonous ego, though:
Macavitar wrote:Do you think you would have stepped forward had I not said anything? When you posted then, had you noticed everyone else in the game had a bolded Step Forward in their posts?
Yes, I would've. No, I hadn't.
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Post Post #1647 (ISO) » Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:14 am

Post by Benmage »

Unsight wrote:
Benmage wrote:
@Unsight,
You iso everyone as soon as a new day occurs?
In smaller games, definitely.

In larger games, I ISO the dead, followed by my suspects, followed by whoever else I can fit in. Time is the only limiting factor. Sometimes I can do everyone, sometimes it's only the first six people. No reason not to if I have the opportunity.
Ah yes time is always the problem.

Let us review: You complain about me going to iso SSBF, simply because you as a subjective person prefer to iso at the start of the day, giving time constraints. And would in an ideal situation iso everyone. Starting with dead to prime suspects and so on and so forth.

Now I said my attention has been elsewhere, but that I have been meaning to/wanting to iso SSBF. Sounds like a time issue on my side, no?

Now as we, who are constrained by time, finally get free moments we must choose how to best use our time to be most advantageous. Would not a rolling wagon on someone one has desired to refer to be a good use of this time?
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Post Post #1648 (ISO) » Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:19 am

Post by Benmage »

The Opening reasoning as to why I currently do not think SSBF will be todays lynch.
(Note this is part of a grand process)

SSBF's opening game and commitment in simple activity/substance gives me indications of town alignment.

Iso 28 speaks wonders to SSBF being town/not Lannister (I doubt it, dana scum list)

Interactions with Percy seem null.

Defends me vs I dobut it, iso post 36. It is now impossible for SSBF to be a Lannister.

Post 39 scumlist dangerous indicator of Greyjoy.

Raise of Percy iso 51…. a little too lovey dovey to be a scum partner?

FoS Raivain iso 52. (Note accusation) Continued accusation iso 53. Iso 54 HoS.

Iso 56 further nails in coffin with SSBF not being Lannister.

Iso 57 Votes Raivann over CMaR as an option. Doesn’t seem like a Greyjoy move if you ask me.

Iso 60 is start of next day.

(Pausing to look at Percy iso)
Percy iso 7 calling out SSBF defense of me referencing the defender as the scum person. Would Percy of called out his partner in this fashion?

iso 8 further negativity towards SSBF
iso 13 commentary.

Now Percy bussed Raivann enough to say maybe he’d act similarly with SSBF, but the SSBF interactions read differently than the Raivann ones if you ask me. Let’s look further:
Opening Reasoning as to why I am doubtful SSBF will be todays lynch. (Note this is a grand work in progress)

iso 20 next day, working with SSBF vs dana. Flip floppy with a scum partner hes trying to bus?

Iso 23 reads aggressive towards SSBF. Is this busing like that with Raivann….maybe.

Iso 24 Percy breaksdown the SSBF vezo case. Concludes in SSBF section that he is getting scummier and scummier. Now there’s bussing, and crusading. Would Percy be a forerunner in pushing his partners scumminess. He’s already lost his GF does he think he can win this one alone?

Iso 29 comes back in from a relative v/la with guns still blazing in the SSBF direction.

Percy Iso 34 Section 3 Wagon Analysis (see I love isoing people…you learn so much) He calls out the people on SSBF wagon for likely being Lannisters to save their GF….Oh and look where I doubt it was. Let’s not ignore the others on it for future Lannister connections.

Prior to death SSBF is still in his camp for being a Greyjoy.
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Post Post #1649 (ISO) » Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:21 am

Post by Benmage »

Unsight wrote:What is the purpose of addressing Mina specifically here?
:roll:
She was addressing him.... These side questions of yours Unsight seem without purpose.
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