A Clash of Kings - A Divided Kingdom

[Unsight]

@Unsight,

You iso everyone as soon as a new day occurs?

In smaller games, definitely.

In larger games, I ISO the dead, followed by my suspects, followed by whoever else I can fit in. Time is the only limiting factor. Sometimes I can do everyone, sometimes it's only the first six people. No reason not to if I have the opportunity.

Ah yes time is always the problem.

Let us review: You complain about me going to iso SSBF, simply because you as a subjective person prefer to iso at the start of the day, giving time constraints. And would in an ideal situation iso everyone. Starting with dead to prime suspects and so on and so forth.

Now I said my attention has been elsewhere, but that I have been meaning to/wanting to iso SSBF. Sounds like a time issue on my side, no?

Now as we, who are constrained by time, finally get free moments we must choose how to best use our time to be most advantageous. Would not a rolling wagon on someone one has desired to refer to be a good use of this time?

If it we were just starting Day 2. Midway through Day 3, not so much. It's reasonable that you would have a read on SSBF that doesn't require an immediate ISO. That's what makes it problematic. Saying "gonna go iso him" now sounds like you were ignoring him up until now.

[Unsight]

What is the purpose of addressing Mina specifically here?

She was addressing him.... These side questions of yours Unsight seem without purpose.

He was talking to Miku and pointing it out to Mina.

[Benmage]

If it we were just starting Day 2. Midway through Day 3, not so much. It's reasonable that you would have a read on SSBF that doesn't require an immediate ISO. That's what makes it problematic.

Saying "gonna go iso him" now sounds like you were ignoring him up until now.

More or less the underlined is true.

As for where attention was also elsewhere today was getting through the whole lighting ceremony, and as we mentioned; time, which I am now using and maybe done with atm with SSBF.

[Benmage]

He was talking to Miku and pointing it out to Mina.

He quotes Mina.

[Unsight]

The Opening reasoning as to why I currently do not think SSBF will be todays lynch.

(Note this is part of a grand process)

The person you paid so little attention to that you had to go ISO them only because they're now the main wagon, you don't want to lynch. Shocking.

[Benmage]

The Opening reasoning as to why I currently do not think SSBF will be todays lynch.

(Note this is part of a grand process)

The person you paid so little attention to that you had to go ISO them only because they're now the main wagon, you don't want to lynch. Shocking.

Let's not play Cat n Mouse Unsight. What is shocking? Do not be subtle in your next post.

Where do you think my motives are?

What alignment do you believe me to be?

[Benmage]

Time is of the essence young one. The longer you wait the worse you look.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Actually, i was curious to see if magnaofillusion would actually follow up on that suspicion of me, but didnt make the slightest effort to do so. Reading his ISO, he seems to have an entirely reactionary playing, sharply making points on posts throughout the game, but never seeming to actually initiate attacks(my perception anyway) difficult player for me getting a read on... Plus, being confirmed=sit back and have a lemonade in the shade as far as defending goes

It’s funny that I’m the reactionary player. Anyone who wants to test this read my ISO versus Rifka and judge for yourself who is passive between the two of us.

I’m ask you Rifka – did you not read my post regarding why I voted for Cow as opposed to you in the Light a Candle process?

Now on to review of Unsight and Rifka’s interactions / suspicions like I’ve promised –

Large wall of text incoming … you have been warned.

Flipped Lannisters – dana and I doubt it
Flipped Greyjoys – Raivann and Percy

Unsight –

unvote. vote: SSBF

Richard needs to explain why he would even mention a policy lynch despite his avid disliking of them as of 3 months ago. SSBF probably needs to die.

This is in response to SSBF calling for Drip to use evidence in suspicions. I’m including SSBF in this summary as he appears to be the lynch in most people’s minds for today and his flip may give additional scum links / interactions.

SSBF's extreme reaction to Eliball's post is another matter. Showing that someone is playing differently than their norm can be very relevant and calling that post irrelevant before Richard even answers to it can have many meanings... many scummy ones. Also, if you look at SSBF's ISO, you'll see that post is one of the most aggressive posts in there. That link really rubbed him the wrong way. He was either distancing Eliball or protecting Richard.

More early attack on SSBF. We know in hindsight he wasn’t distancing DripHydra and protecting Town seems unlikely.

In ISO 4 chastizes dana to “stop pretending to be a newbie”.

danakillsu has played in about 25+ games on mafiascum.net, has a gut read of scum on someone, but says he's not voting that person because he has no experience with said player instead of something definitive like "this wagon is better" or "I don't see the case on him." I have no experience with danakillsu but I can easily go find a couple of his 20-something games and get experience with him because I'm not lazy in my scum hunting. Also, it was a lame way to acknowledge the wagon without boarding it or resisting it. Laundering is my new favorite word these days.

In ISO 7 agrees with Percy’s opinion on Raivann but finds Percy somewhat selective in his targeting (mentioning Cow, Drip, Ben and himself as those not questioned).

ISO 8 – Says Percy and Drip were buddying.

ISO 15 – Suggests that Percy has aseked a loaded question and finds it scummy.

SSBF is still scummy and still worth lynching. VOTE: SSBF

The Vezo case has merit. Not sure if Vezo is scum, but his play is anti-town and hard for me to read.

Percy's Drippereth case deserves a full read by everyone. It's very good and I would support a Drippereth lynch based on it (mostly because it's something I'd have done if I had more time and someone else hadn't already done it).

I'll reread dana in light of the night's flips in the next day or two.

Votes SSBF again Day 2 (and held it there the entirety of Day 1, avoiding all the wagons). Unsight’s strong support of Percy’s Drip case, when previously they had been ignoring / buddying each other, seems like an odd turn-around.

ISO 22 – Attacks LMP as scum for positions on various Day 1 wagons and unvotes SSBF. Attempts to forge links between Raivann, LMP and Drip (which we know now are false).

Life is good as I have free time again. Let me look at the dana wagon...

Percy - Percy's note that danakillsu was attempting to derail the Raivann wagon the most is spot-on. Drippereth is a close second with LMP coming in third.
Thor665 - Basically ditto's Percy.
Mikujin - Also ditto's Percy.
Axelrod - Similar to Percy's case but also points out flippage on RichardGHP (similar to LynchMePls actually).
RichardGHP - Reasonless vote. I have this theory that scum hunting ceases the moment someone becomes obv town...
xvart - xvart is great. He spotted what almost looks like a scumslip by danakillsu's ISO 15.
LynchMePls - This is the guy who raised danakillsu in his first post. Votes to "get some team cohesion going" but has been spending his time making SSBF and CSL cases. Can someone say "BUS BUS BUS BUS BUS!"
Vezokpiraka - No reasoning? Why is Vezo voting dana?
Benmage - Again no reasoning. Why is Benmage voting dana?
CSL - Votes to see if he's telling the truth about his claim. What?

It's really easy to see the people actually putting a case forward versus the blatant wagon-ers especially toward the end.

I will support a danakillsu lynch, but not until the last 3 people explain what they're doing and why. Also, LMP is still scum..

Supports the lynch without voting for it. In a turn-around form ISO 22 now sees LMP as bussing dana.

I believe we have two scum teams but I don't believe all my suspects are on the same one. I can see Dana and LMP being on a team with Raivann and I can see SSBF and MacCavityLock being on a team. I can see Drip being with SSBF or Raivann.

ISO 30 also begins my questioning of Unsight at the end of Day 2.

Votes dana in 33 after being called out by several players. For context this is the 11th vote on dana and right before deadline.

In conclusion I’m not sure that I have any better a feel for Unsight as either scum-team. He made zero interactions with Raivann Day 1 and did threw some mild accusations towards Percy without following up on them at all. Day 1 Unsight also made some early accusations against dana that let nowhere. Day 2 changes opinion on Percy 180 degrees and has to be dragged kicking in screaming to the dana wagon. I could see Unsight as either alignment.

Rifka –

Vote:Deer


Right now im considering raising xvart or drippereth.

RVS vote for Raivann’s slot. Note the raising point for later in the summary.

Has a slight dust-up with Benmage in ISOs 2-4 over Ben’s ‘obstructionist’ attitude.

Sure. I see two ways to proceed with this double vote-either give it to a town read, or give it to a scummy player to try to ''nk magnet'' him\her. Ill play it face value and thus go with one of these townish players.

Her stated logic that she will use for raising (no other ISO mentions until 18).

Raise Drippereth wynaut?

Starts some questioning of SSBF in ISO 11. I’m including this for SSBF as I did with Unsight.

As to your other Q, half the game is scum right now. I like SSBF and deer particularly. Deer hasnt done anything to even justify moving the vote. As for being willing to hammer richard at the time, ill suffice myself with referring his contradiction of calling out CMAR then using even earlier evidence to justify a vote.

Hmm raivann there are no benefits from a player getting a one-shot vig?

Gotta say i think thats a weak opening post...maybe i unvoted deer too soon?

Note that Rifka’s vote is inactive at this point, yet no re-vote for Raivann.

unraise raise percy In order to comply with my own raising logic

Quite out of the blue raise of Percy. For the record this puts Percy at 9 votes of the required 14 to raise. Nothing particularly wrong with having Percy as a Town read (and ISO 1 states that would be the raise qualification), but the fact that Percy isn’t mentioned or referenced significantly before this point strikes me knowing Percy’s flip.

Standing by for hammer duty I prefer raivann lynch. He was the original scum deer and still is

Once again states a preference for a Raivann lynch without voting for him.

In ISO 29 casts some says the I Doubt It’s case on Benmage was ‘very unprofessional’.

on the drippy topic, (DGB) thinks raivan is town because im bussing scum(yet doesnt want to lynch the bussed scum? hmmm) and elli doesnt seem to want raivan lynch\push me as scum(or atleast, didnt say anything of relevance in the last post) combined with drippy pushing deer early then forgetting about it later, makes me see drippy-raivan connection

In hindsight, of course, this was a false link.

Finally votes Raivann in ISO 31. In time context Raivann / Budja / CMAR all have 5 votes prior to this vote.

Unvotes Raivann in ISO 34, post claim of Vig. Pushes for Richard based on the conflicting claim with Raivann.

Advocates that SSBF should be Raivann’s ‘Vig’ target in ISO 43 and 44.

This almost looks like the ''you caught me for the wrong reasons rant'' tell.

Ill put down a vote:SSBF as per earlier reasons

Very interesting statement on Day 2 regarding dana before his Lannister flip.
Rifka and I get into our debate regarding the Mob action in ISO 54 – 59.

I can only speak for myself, but im leaning scum on 3 of those now(csl im a little iffy on) so why would i or anyone that felt the same way attack those cases? If i want SSBF lynched over dana but i still think dana is scum, it doesnt really make sense to try to demolish a dana case.

card flip time Unvote Vote Danakillsu

After only the small peep regarding dana at 49 Rifka states dana is scum. In context this is the hammer vote.

This ends Day 2.

In conclusion I’d have to say that I’m leaning that Rifka is much more likely a Lannister than a Greyjoy. She voted for Raivann when things could have gone in any direction with him, CMAR and Budja. The Lannister interactions have been minimal. Rifka hammered dana despite not once questioning him or expressing anything significant in terms of a scum-read on dana. Interestingly also called I Doubt it’s case weak on Benmage but never attacked him for it, while he attacked SSBF for responding in place of Ben.

Based on these two summaries I’m going to keep my vote with Unsight for the moment.

[Unsight]

The Opening reasoning as to why I currently do not think SSBF will be todays lynch.

(Note this is part of a grand process)

The person you paid so little attention to that you had to go ISO them only because they're now the main wagon, you don't want to lynch. Shocking.

Let's not play Cat n Mouse Unsight. What is shocking? Do not be subtle in your next post.

Where do you think my motives are?

What alignment do you believe me to be?

This is what bothers me:

I don't wanna lynch CSL, and I'd have to review SSBF before committing there.

Re-reading I doubt it, I find it nearly impossible for SSBF to be a Lannister.

I think he's a Greyjoy, as shown by his reluctance to vote Raivann and just his overall scumminess.

Oooooo see, I didn't reread SSBF yet and I do recall oddness with this(people talking about it). Good point.

(Gonna go iso SSBF)

I see a pattern of you pushing against lynching him and of saying you haven't read him. That's why I pressed regarding your ISO post. A week later and you still haven't read him? Really?

As for your motives and alignment, I haven't had a scum read on you but your treatment of him looks a lot like Scum/Scum or Scum/Town.

[Benmage]

I see a pattern of you pushing against lynching him

and of saying you haven't read him. That's why I pressed regarding your ISO post. A week later and you still haven't read him? Really?

Yes, because I didn't have a scum read on him whereas others did. My lack of scum read gave me little desire to review him before the many other things I've been doing/want to do. So a week is null if hes low on my priority list. But he was nonetheless always on my agenda and now being the leading wagon (and me without concrete direction(although this is changing)) he moved up in priority.

As for your motives and alignment, I haven't had a scum read on you but your treatment of him looks a lot like Scum/Scum or Scum/Town.

In the second am I the scum or am I the town?

[Unsight]

In conclusion I’m not sure that I have any better a feel for Unsight as either scum-team. He made zero interactions with Raivann Day 1 and did threw some mild accusations towards Percy without following up on them at all. Day 1 Unsight also made some early accusations against dana that let nowhere. Day 2 changes opinion on Percy 180 degrees and has to be dragged kicking in screaming to the dana wagon. I could see Unsight as either alignment.

My only alignment is Town (or Innocent as my role pm puts it) so your vote on me is catching no scum.

My point to dana was the result of something I saw while reading his meta--this post is where he admits to a newbie playstyle. I figured I'd call him on it early and see what he did.

As for the dana wagon as a whole, let me quote my response to you so you might actually read it this time:

If you want dana lynched, and he's the leading wagon...why the hell aren't ya voting him?

That post was made 8 days before the deadline and would have put dana at L-1 (IIRC). I have no interest in seeing the day cut short when there's plenty to talk about.

It’s now 2 days til deadline. Is your suggestion that you support a dana lynch just fence-sitting since your vote is not on him?

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

That is, you're using the phrase "fence-sitting" incorrectly. Fence-sitting is when you have two positions on a subject and someone chooses to take neither of them. Since you are on neither side of the fence, you are effectively sitting on the fence.

This doesn't apply to my position of Dana as I have said a couple times now that I support a Dana lynch. I have clearly taken a position. What I have not done is rush the day. I could have voted Dana a week ago and put him at L-1. Doing so brings the day one vote closer to its end and doesn't help me scum hunt. Conversely, I can vote and pressure other suspects, extend the day to continue scumhunting, and still vote dana at a later time which is win/win/win for the town.

Now, your saying that "just fence-sitting since your vote is not on him" is spectacularly stupid logic. By that logic, everyone with a suspect they're not voting for is fence-sitting. You attempted a similarly poor argument regarding my suspicion on Drip where you attempted to say my not voting him meant I was distancing him which I swiftly responded to and now you're doing it again.

Did you not learn anything from that response? Let me spell it out for you: You can pressure people with your vote, you can pressure people without a vote, and you can even be suspicious of people other than the single person you are voting for.


Now, the deadline is in 2 days and I usually go V/LA over the weekend which means I may not be here for it. I'm happy with a Dana lynch and I'll put my vote next to it.

VOTE: danakillsu

[Unsight]

I see a pattern of you pushing against lynching him

and of saying you haven't read him. That's why I pressed regarding your ISO post. A week later and you still haven't read him? Really?

Yes, because

I didn't have a scum read on him whereas others did.

My lack of scum read gave me little desire to review him before the many other things I've been doing/want to do. So a week is null if hes low on my priority list. But he was nonetheless always on my agenda and now being the leading wagon (and me without concrete direction(although this is changing)) he moved up in priority.

As for your motives and alignment, I haven't had a scum read on you but your treatment of him looks a lot like Scum/Scum or Scum/Town.

In the second am I the scum or am I the town?

So regardless of how many others had a scum read on him, it still took you this long to get around to rereading him?

You're the scum. Defending someone while not having read them is a knowing-too-much tell regardless of the defendee's alignment.

[Benmage]

You're the scum

. Defending someone while not having read them is a knowing-too-much tell regardless of the defendee's alignment.

Ahhh so let's embellish this.

Surely you have an amazing read on me. You must've iso'd me twice now, or at the very least once.

Please state the case on me being scum. Feel free to rehighlight the wishy washy SSBF stuff, but I'm look at/for the other things you provide. Also feel free to name anything that might cause you pause to think I'm town. If of course you stumble onto any of that, or I mean simply state what you already know seeing as you don't need to iso. Thank you.

[Benmage]

So regardless of how many others had a scum read on him, it still took you this long to get around to rereading him?

Quite true. After all I am the best here.

[Rifka Viveka]

quotes from magna;

RVS vote for Raivann’s slot. Note the raising point for later in the summary

BULLSHIT. Deers first post was scummy as hell, your going beyond scumhunting here and saying i couldnt have accurately gotten a scumread off him, for that megatell post. This was not a RVS vote

Very interesting statement on Day 2 regarding dana before his Lannister flip.

That IS a scumtell, and i wasnt the only one to point it out. What are you saying here, that it wasnt?

She voted for Raivann when things could have gone in any direction with him, CMAR and Budja.

Well atleast you include a good argument for why im not a greyjoy. Thats something i slightly referenced earlier to locke lamora, that i wouldnt really make sense as a raivain buddy...as i was under the impression that vote helped keep the pressure on

[Axelrod]

Benmage can lay off the attitude anytime. Maybe that's fun for him, but it's not really fun for anyone else. (or, I suppose I don't know, maybe everyone else thinks it's great and it's just me).

Still waiting for SSBF to claim or do anything useful. Got a few niggles here and there on other people, but not a lot of time to do anything with them.

[Benmage]

Benmage can lay off the attitude anytime. Maybe that's fun for him, but it's not really fun for anyone else. (or, I suppose I don't know, maybe everyone else thinks it's great and it's just me).

Alright so I throw in an unnecessary quip here and there, see 2nd sentence 1663. But what do you think of my dealings with unsight?

What is your impression on Unsight?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Since I'm the most likely person to die today, I might as well claim:
I am Arya Stark, the Town Vigilante. I watched my father die and escaped to the wilderness. I was wild enough whe maids and septas tried to put me in dresses, but I have since gone feral. I have a sharp sword.

I am able to kill every Night and if successful, the person will die.

Night 1, I killed Raivann. I knew that he was lying about his claim and since I was the most suspicious of him, I decided that he needed to die. Night 2, I killled I doubt it due to gut feelings that he was scum. Something about him really didn't sit well with me.

[Benmage]

Hacked to pieces does not sound like Arya Stark.

[Eddard Stark]

This is the last warning we will give in regards to players quoting PMs. There have been two breaches thus far, and they have been forgiven. A third breach by any player will result in a modkill.

[diddin]

Hacked to pieces does not sound like Arya Stark.

This. Arya sticks 'em with the pointy end of her rapier, not hacks them to pieces.

[Benmage]

The killing of Raivann makes sense as a CC to a claimed Vig.

Dayvig, Night vig....I can't help but think theres an SK in the two. And Hacked to pieces sounds so brutal.

[diddin]

Arya also is the only character that interacts with Jaquen. Considering Jaquen was a HIRED assassin, I wouldn't be surprised if Arya was the one who hired him.

unvote

, not liking the claim, but we can just have Locke scan you.

[Thor665]

@Benmage - I'll somewhat disagree here insomuch as you should also recall that we had a vengeance Vig as well. I'm thinking this game has a bit of heavy viggish flavor to it.

Unvote: Super Smash Bros. Fan

If he's scum he's already dead one way or the other. If he's SK then he's at least a pet SK for a while and we just make sure to lynch him a bit later in. If he's telling the truth I don't want to lynch him.

Meh, now I have to go re-read to see who I want to vote next. Leaning Macavitar, Unsight, or Rifka at the moment, will go back and see which tickles my fancy.

SSBF can always kill vezo for us tonight, I wouldn't cry about that.

[Thor665]

Yeah, I forgot the hired assassin as well. Vig heavy, a'yup.

I think Locke can scan whoever he thinks it is best to scan.