A Clash of Kings - A Divided Kingdom

[vezokpiraka]

No. I didn't said that he is bad.
He will end up either being lynched or NKed by the scum.
I don't say we lynch him now.
Let's lynch scum.

[Thor665]

Aren't you still voting SSBF?
Who do you think is scum?

Also, your previous post *did* look like you were saying he was "bad" and wouldn't listen to town. Now he's apparently a foolish scum or a poor noble Vig who will die in the night phase? Can you think of a better person for him to kill before his inevitable death then you? Earlier you indicated it was a good plan for town to kill you, why shouldn't we kill you now?

[vezokpiraka]

I said that it is god to kill if you can't have faith in me as town. I don't want to lose this game in LYLO again because of me.

He won't listen to the town if he is the SK cause you will certainly lynch him at some point. If he starts killing scum , scum will kill him.

I say he kils macavitar so we get one of the hard to read persons out of the game. We already have cow so...

[Mikujin]

Overnight page explosion. I've only skimmed so far, but if SSBF really shot two scum then we should just keep him around and direct his kill for now. I think he's probably an SK, but useful.

SSBF, what DO you say to shooting vezo tonight?

Also,

Unvote, Vote: Unsight

@miku - I'll come to you later today when I get some time. Apparently my ginormous ego isn't finished with you yet.

Any reason in particular you're seeming to trust SSBF's hokey claim, and voting Unsight instead? Also looking forward to what I bolded. Hope it means we get to do lunch.

vote SSBF

[vezokpiraka]

unvote

Whoa.
Post coming

[vezokpiraka]

Now that it's clear we are not lynching SSBF I don't want someone to hammer him by accident.
Mikujin is a much better target.

Vote Mikujin

[MagnaofIllusion]

But I'm not sure what you mean by that last part. That you see a scum motivation for pushing for a Cow scan or putting myself in a 1 v 1 with him?

I don’t like it because it just because there isn’t a non-WIFOM scum motivation for you to express your theory of a Lannister on the Kingsguard and to push so hard for Cow. Your theory makes sense I think. If Cow does scan as Town that leaves you as the only “unaccounted for” Kingsguard member. The heavy WIFOM involved with whether you would push for Cow’s investigation to ‘clear yourself’ is something I would not put past a good player using to their advantage. All this said I still feel you are Town but I’m not going to outright dismiss that little bit of gnawing doubt in the back of my mind that this scenario creates.

My only alignment is Town (or Innocent as my role pm puts it) so your vote on me is catching no scum.

What is the purpose of this statement? Should we just take your word for it? And why go out of the way to claim Innocent when you have exactly 1 vote on you (at the time you made this post)?

BULLSHIT. Deers first post was scummy as hell, your going beyond scumhunting here and saying i couldnt have accurately gotten a scumread off him, for that megatell post. This was not a RVS vote

Hard as hell to tell what that vote was when it consists solely of “Vote: Deer” and nothing else.

That IS a scumtell, and i wasnt the only one to point it out. What are you saying here, that it wasnt?

The point is that it potentially inadvertently betrays inside knowledge. Only a Greyjoy or a Lannister would have reason to suspect (before dana’s flip) that dana was being strung up for incorrect linking logic. I was sure he’d flip Greyjoy based on the whole Raivann / Budja posting dana had done.

If others also made similar statements please point them out because I missed them.

Arya also is the only character that interacts with Jaquen. Considering Jaquen was a HIRED assassin, I wouldn't be surprised if Arya was the one who hired him.

SSBF

– I’d like you to directly comment on this statement by diddin. Did you have any ability to influence Kleedrac / Budja?

REGARDING SSBF’S CLAIM –

Has Town gone completely stupid? Thor and Locke are the only ones I see thinking clearly on this issue.

SSBF has claimed the “Hacked to Pieces” flavour. Let’s examine the history of that flavour’s kills.

1. Killed Greyjoy scum Raivann who claimed Vig.
2. Killed Lannister scum I Doubt It.

The flavour is obviously not scum aligned with either faction.

People fake-claiming Vig don’t survive long in this game. If SSBF is fake-claiming possession of the flavour I have no doubt he will be hacked to pieces tonight. If he is properly claiming the flavour does it matter if he is SK or Vig right now? If he makes a kill that isn’t in the Innocents’ best interest (Locke or Thor for example) we can string him up. And as it gets closer to endgame he can always be lynched then also.

I would suggest that SSBF would be well served in killing Vezo tonight if he is really the Vig / SK.

Unvote, Vote: Unsight

I like where this vote is but could you provide some reasons as to why made it?

Any reason in particular you're seeming to trust SSBF's hokey claim, and voting Unsight instead? Also looking forward to what I bolded. Hope it means we get to do lunch.

vote SSBF

Has brings up a good point, and at this time I can't deny how scummy SSBF has been. Vote: SSBF

These are HORRIBLE votes for the reasons I outlined above. I’ve already given my review of Rifka (another bad SSBF vote) and Ben gets an initial pass since he’s more or less cleared as non-SK scum.

I guess I have two more players to dig into …

[Rifka Viveka]

Magna

Hard as hell to tell what that vote was when it consists solely of “Vote: Deer” and nothing else.

All my votes are dead serious...IIRC i thought the RVS was well over by the time i posted that

The point is that it potentially inadvertently betrays inside knowledge. Only a Greyjoy or a Lannister would have reason to suspect (before dana’s flip) that dana was being strung up for incorrect linking logic. I was sure he’d flip Greyjoy based on the whole Raivann / Budja posting dana had done.

If others also made similar statements please point them out because I missed them.

I would have to reread that area, but in reference to the post i quoted, the scumtell is that a scum gets upset for being run up ''for the wrong reasons'', such as a false link to a dead mafia of another alignment. This scumtell can be applied without the third party observer(me) knowing the link is false, because i can see dana strongly believes its false.

Edit;whoops, the only player i found that agreed with me was percy on post 1132

And the fact that he flipped (your) Godfather shouldn't have any bearing on this series of events, hmm?
Also, Rifka beat me to the punch, but this is "you caught me for the wrong reasons".

...

Mikujin, what part specifiably do you find bogus about the claim? Macavitar said he was probably a SK, then you called him too trusting, so i really dont get it?

[Mikujin]

And the fact that he flipped (your) Godfather shouldn't have any bearing on this series of events, hmm?
Also, Rifka beat me to the punch, but this is "you caught me for the wrong reasons".

...

Mikujin, what part specifiably do you find bogus about the claim? Macavitar said he was probably a SK, then you called him too trusting, so i really dont get it?

I don't like how convenient SSBF's claim seems to be - and I don't know how simple the Town/Innocent would be to make, but it's more null than anything. It could just as easily be townie mistake as it could be a scum/SK one. The fact that several others have mentioned that the flavor for his claim doesn't seem to fit certainly doesn't make me think better of him.

The reason I called Macavitar too trusting is because he calls SSBF out for "probably" being an SK, then wants to see what he can do for directing SSBF's kills. Assuming SSBF is the SK, what incentive is there for him to listen to such ideas? He

still

doesn't win, because we'll likely lynch him before LYLO, so why not just kill whomever he wants? If he's the SK, why do we let him live to kill someone else (likely a townie), rather than lynch him now to stem the problem at its roots? Just seems counterproductive. That's why I don't like Macavitar's suggestion/said he was too trusting of SSBF.

[Benmage]

@SSBF

if we are to let this claim unravel and see if you continue to act town-y are you willing to kill from a short list including people like:

#1Vezo.....CSL....etc etc?

[Benmage]

@miku - I'll come to you later today when I get some time. Apparently my ginormous ego isn't finished with you yet.

The town aint big enough for two giganto egos!

[MagnaofIllusion]

I would have to reread that area, but in reference to the post i quoted, the scumtell is that a scum gets upset for being run up ''for the wrong reasons'', such as a false link to a dead mafia of another alignment. This scumtell can be applied without the third party observer(me) knowing the link is false, because i can see dana strongly believes its false.

Are you saying that dana couldn’t strongly argue against a link between himself and Raivann if it had been true? Because that’s a necessary requirement for you to identify that dana was being voted for the ‘wrong reasons’ without having inside knowledge.

I don't like how convenient SSBF's claim seems to be - and I don't know how simple the Town/Innocent would be to make, but it's more null than anything. It could just as easily be townie mistake as it could be a scum/SK one. The fact that several others have mentioned that the flavor for his claim doesn't seem to fit certainly doesn't make me think better of him.

The reason I called Macavitar too trusting is because he calls SSBF out for "probably" being an SK, then wants to see what he can do for directing SSBF's kills. Assuming SSBF is the SK, what incentive is there for him to listen to such ideas? He still doesn't win, because we'll likely lynch him before LYLO, so why not just kill whomever he wants? If he's the SK, why do we let him live to kill someone else (likely a townie), rather than lynch him now to stem the problem at its roots? Just seems counterproductive. That's why I don't like Macavitar's suggestion/said he was too trusting of SSBF.

Regardless of whether Mac (or anyone else) buys SSBF’s claim or not you can’t show me a Pro-Town reason to lynch SSBF today.

1. If he’s fake-claiming scum he’s a walking dead man as shown historically by Raivann’s death.
2. If he’s properly claiming flavour he’s already done more for Town (2 dead Mafians versus 1 lynched Mafian) than Town has, regardless of whether he is SK or Vig.
3. If his flavour makes a bad NK we can lynch him the next day.
4. SSBF can potentially be handled in a variety of other ways, including tracking / scanning.

To anyone questioning SSBF’s claims please explain the following – How does I Doubt It’s death (when viewed through SSBF’s interactions with him Day 1) not make total sense to be coming from SSBF?

[Rifka Viveka]

Are you saying that dana couldn’t strongly argue against a link between himself and Raivann if it had been true? Because that’s a necessary requirement for you to identify that dana was being voted for the ‘wrong reasons’ without having inside knowledge.

Before we go any further here, are you or are you not familiar with this tell?

[hasdgfas]

Question to everyone: how many scum do you think the Greyjoys/Lannisters have? We have 2 dead on each side right now, from 26 total

[MagnaofIllusion]

Are you saying that dana couldn’t strongly argue against a link between himself and Raivann if it had been true? Because that’s a necessary requirement for you to identify that dana was being voted for the ‘wrong reasons’ without having inside knowledge.

Before we go any further here, are you or are you not familiar with this tell?

Don't dodge the question - are you asserting that dana couldn't strongly argue against a link that was in fact true?

[Thor665]

Question to everyone: how many scum do you think the Greyjoys/Lannisters have? We have 2 dead on each side right now, from 26 total

Isn't the usual concept about 25% being anti town in some manner? I'd probably expect three per team with an independent thrown in, but this is my first large game so I certainly claim no expertise in this.

[vezokpiraka]

I guess 4-4 with one SK?

[Rifka Viveka]

Are you saying that dana couldn’t strongly argue against a link between himself and Raivann if it had been true? Because that’s a necessary requirement for you to identify that dana was being voted for the ‘wrong reasons’ without having inside knowledge.

Before we go any further here, are you or are you not familiar with this tell?

Don't dodge the question - are you asserting that dana couldn't strongly argue against a link that was in fact true?

Not at all. Now are you really pretending you dont realize that scum get upset sometimes when fingered specifically for something that in hindsight, couldnt really implicate them?

How can i differentiate between scum upset at facing a false link and a scum arguing against a real link? Cause i can read, and more importantly analyze. Ive seen this tell before, and i recognized it in danas behavior here. You realize your argument that a townie couldnt do that is going to be utterly repudiated the moment i flip town, right?

...

Question to everyone: how many scum do you think the Greyjoys/Lannisters have? We have 2 dead on each side right now, from 26 total

3+3+1 VS 19 with a day vig seems lightweight to me. Plus a town vengefull and a multilife townie...right now id say atleast 5 scum alive.

[Benmage]

I guess 4-4 with one SK?

This is what I was thinking.

[Benmage]

right now id say atleast 5 scum alive.

So 2-2-1 left?

[Macavitar]

I say he kils macavitar so we get one of the hard to read persons out of the game. We already have cow so...

I think we've been pretty transparent actually. What makes our slot hard to read? Do you have questions you'd like to ask that would assist in your read? Also, that's really dumb vig strategy....

Any reason in particular you're seeming to trust SSBF's hokey claim, and voting Unsight instead? Also looking forward to what I bolded. Hope it means we get to do lunch.

Well, I mean, I expressly said that I DID NOT trust his claim. I believe he's an SK. That being said, if he kills who we direct him to kill at night there is no reason he can't be allowed to live for now. Perhaps my giant ego prevents you from reading the words that I say.

While we're at it:

The answer ends up being WIFOM no matter how I answer it (coulda-woulda-shoulda).

95% of this game is WIFOM. Stop dodging questions and freaking answer them. Hope you are noting all of this sidestepping Mina. I honestly don't see how I could be highlighting Miku's scummy behavior anymore than I already am.

You want me to answer questions that are going to give you no information, whatsoever. Regardless of how I answer any of your questions, you've made up your mind. Just to feed your gluttonous ego, though:

Do you think you would have stepped forward had I not said anything? When you posted then, had you noticed everyone else in the game had a bolded Step Forward in their posts?

Yes, I would've. No, I hadn't.

First, let me determine what questions give me information and what questions do not. You don't know my train of thought, so it might be worthwhile to not think you do. Second, pouty scum is pouty. Third, how do you think you would have figured out the need to step forward if you didn't see it in ~20 players posts and didn't read the OP for the day?

Has Town gone completely stupid? Thor and Locke are the only ones I see thinking clearly on this issue.

Thanks for ignoring me and calling me stupid.

I like where this vote is but could you provide some reasons as to why made it?

Because Unsight is scum. Look at me being obtuse! I haven't put a full case together or anything like that (nor will I probably). Unsight has just continually been on my shortlist for scum because every time I read one of his posts I find it unbearably scummy. He's taken a ton of shots from the sidelines without doing much real scum hunting and has shown to me several times that he's not reading the thread very closely (ie, inspecting for scum).

OOooo oooo, here's a thought: @Unsight - What do you think of Mikujin over these last few pages?

Assuming SSBF is the SK, what incentive is there for him to listen to such ideas? He still doesn't win, because we'll likely lynch him before LYLO, so why not just kill whomever he wants? If he's the SK, why do we let him live to kill someone else (likely a townie), rather than lynch him now to stem the problem at its roots? Just seems counterproductive. That's why I don't like Macavitar's suggestion/said he was too trusting of SSBF.

Translation: "Don't tell SSBF kill my scumbuddy tonight! Not fair guys!"

I'll break it down for you, if SSBF is an SK and we lynch him today, he has a 0% chance of winning. If he's an SK and we let him live on his "vig" claim, which he holds up by killing who the town tells him to kill, he has approximately a 0.0001% chance of winning because he's STILL ALIVE. Which of these numbers is greater Mikujin?

The town aint big enough for two giganto egos!

Psh, you call that an ego?

Question to everyone: how many scum do you think the Greyjoys/Lannisters have? We have 2 dead on each side right now, from 26 total

I think common distribution would be 3:3:1 in terms of scum. Of course, you could have something like 4:3:1 if one team is powerful. If SSBF is telling the truth, it could be 4:4 or even 5:4, though the latter would require the town to be pretty well stacked.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

About the kill choices, I can kill whoever I want to kill, it is my own choice. That said, I am willing to kill either vezokpiraka or CSL, leaning toward CSL.

To MagnaofIllusion, I had no ability to influence Kleedrac/Budja.

And to hasdgfas's question, a 3/3 Greyjoy/Lannister team sounds plausible with one remaining from each factions. Although given the size of the game, I wouldn't be surprised if there was two scums from both factions alive (AKA, started with 4/4 for both scum factions and 2/2 remaining).

[Rifka Viveka]

right now id say atleast 5 scum alive.

So 2-2-1 left?

Thats the highest number south of 35% that i can think to arrange the groups into. A 3+3+3+1 setup would be 38%. Or if there isnt a SK, 3+3+3 could make sense. I think it has to be between 25 and 35 percent.

[Thor665]

About the kill choices, I can kill whoever I want to kill, it is my own choice.

I don't think you understand the concept of pet SK.

Presuming we buy that you're really the Vig, why not kill whom town directs?

That said, I am willing to kill either vezokpiraka or CSL, leaning toward CSL.

How come CSL?

I'm pretty down for either Unsight of Rifka as lynch, both make my toes curl. Will read them sometime this weekend to figure out actual preference between the two.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Not at all. Now are you really pretending you dont realize that scum get upset sometimes when fingered specifically for something that in hindsight, couldnt really implicate them?

How can i differentiate between scum upset at facing a false link and a scum arguing against a real link? Cause i can read, and more importantly analyze. Ive seen this tell before, and i recognized it in danas behavior here. You realize your argument that a townie couldnt do that is going to be utterly repudiated the moment i flip town, right?

I’ve never said what you are asserting in the first part. In particular I find scum to get animated in general when fingered as such in a way that they can’t refute easily. Being accused for ‘wrong reasons’ certainly falls into that.

Amazing how superior your reading and analyzing skills are to most ever other player. Because the only other player who asserted that dana was upset at being caught specifically for the ‘wrong reasons’ was Percy. He, of course, had inside information.
I’ve never said that it was impossible for Town to make that assessment. What I am saying is that it is much more likely an assessment to come from scum.

1. If you recognized this behaviour as scummy by dana why didn’t you vote for / pursue dana Day 2? You didn’t, and only hammered at deadline when it was obvious Percy could use his second vote to hammer. Late bussing perhaps?
2. Nice AtE in the last section about you being ‘right’ when you flip Town.

Thanks for ignoring me and calling me stupid.

First off you are correct … I missed including you. But from my standpoint you aren’t confirmed as are Locke and Thor (as much as anyone can be in a multi-scum environment).

I’m coming around though … especially in light of Muki’s play today that you have been harping on.