1. I still can't believe that everyone's making this out to be such a big deal.ortiz1193 wrote:DH wrote:2. That was a little bit of a different situation. -everyone- in this game is connected to Pie in some way, as opposed to half of the SHM crowd that was comprised of lurkers and people who didn't really care, so I think this is a tad more of an appropriate situation to want to lynch for information, ESPECIALLY with so many arguments being fired around. It'd help clear the air just a little bit. You have to remember that not a single person is dead still. A counter question: Lets say that Pie dies today. If Pie flipped scum, who would be your new targets? If he flipped town, who would be your new targets?1.I think the concept applies just as much here, maybe more. The point was that we kept saying to lynch for information just to get the lynch through, and then we avoided going back to it by saying "Townies reads aren't always right anyway" - its a scummy reason to try and support a lynch. Plus there were like 6 mislynches in that game, and I think there's generally 3 in a mini. Its not a big deal to kill a VT on day 1/2 of a 25 person game, but every lynch is important in a mini. Its just a bad/scummy reason in general to push for a lynch.
I'd have to reread to answer that. I wasn't in the game through the first 15 pages so I only read everything one time, I don't remember small details here and there. I remember Fugi tunneling Pie from the beginning, so for example if Pie flips some expendable role like a goon I would be suspicious of Fugi for bussing, because Fugi would do that. I don't really know off the top of my head who's been defending him, but I'd look at that, subtle defenses, etc. If he flipped scum I'd probably take some heat as well because I've defended him a little.
Anyway, the same could be said for any person. You could sacrifice yourself since you'd probably give off more information than anyone else. (I obviously don't think you should do that)
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DH wrote:You completely missed where I said "we can wait for more information (a claim) or we can lynch him with the information we have" since he was v/la
2.I forgot to point this out earlier. This is a scummy post. (Not this one, but the one you put in quotes) "Or we can lynch him with the information we have" is kind of a feeler. You don't push it, but you throw the idea out there to see if someone else will jump on the idea. Its like making a case on someone, not voting them, and wait until someone else votes the person before you do to make sure there's support behind it. I make a lot of posts like this as scum, so that's particularly telling to me.
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3.Alright, reading through the thread to check up with your case on Pie.
In your first two quotes, I can see what you're getting at, but its not really a scumtell as far as I can see. Maybe paranoia? But Pie is by far competent enough to not be paranoid over something like that. I can see him legitimately misinterpreting your post.
Reading through I noticed something that I haven't seen mentioned.
Pie wrote:Jack, I can't tell if you're:
- trolling
- actually scum
- town reaction testing
...but at this point, it's starting to get on my nerves for some reason.4.This prefaces his policy lynch suggestion. I'm not really sure if its town telling (his feelings/read gradually increasing vs. him setting up the suggestion as scum) or scum telling. Occam's razor suggests town telling though. I don't know why anyone would try to set up a policy lynch in advance...especially someone who knows how scummy it is to talk about policy lynches.
The next point with the Jack/Pie thing just looks like Pie fail to me. I find it strange he's done that twice this game.. which is actually pretty opposite of Piescum meta. That's one reason I think he's town... Pie plays pretty well as scum and pretty scummy as town. I'll probably get attacked for using Meta to defend someone but I'll stand by my theory that meta is legit.
DemonHybrid wrote:Wow, what?InflatablePie wrote:Top 5 suspects: TL, Jack, Kov, Fugitive, r2r.
Kov for his fencesitting-ish post about me way back there.
Where did this come from? It sounds rather familiar.
All of a sudden after so long, Kov is a suspect for the same reason I suspect him for (and after no one else said anything about him)5.Actually he posted about Kov being scummy about a page before this, not just when he was asked to put out a scumlist. Not to mention you're calling him scum for being suspicious of the same person you are. I just don't get it. Preview edit: Wait, Pie did point this out later on. You ignored it.
His two bandwagon votes are scummy as hell.
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TO SUMMARIZE:
-Yes, I realize I'm fucked if Pie's actually scum
My point of that post was to demonstrate that a scum flip of Pie would be much more valuable than a scum flip of everyone else. Having him flip town is a relatively small risk in comparison. Stop taking that post out of context.
And yes, I would die if that meant that scum would be found the next few lynches after my death. I have a win condition that says "You win if all scum is wiped out". It doesn't matter if I'm alive or not. You know that's how I play, and I honestly think that someone's death would be worthless if I thought they were -somewhat town- and weren't connected to a lot of people...because it wouldn't tell us much.2. Or it's simply opening up options to what to do. Everyone seems to mistakenly think that I was against not lynching him. Kind of getting tired of people putting words into my mouth.
3. That kind of thinking put you and Fugitive in the position to completely destroy us last game. Just saying.
4. Setting up policy lynches in advance is scummy in itself because at that point, there is no need for a policy lynch. Policy lynches are last resort "this guy needs to die because he's completely fucking town over" lynches. How can that be the case when he needs to -set it up-?
5. Why does everyone keep saying that "it's weird that you're calling someone scum for suspecting the same person"? I'm seriously starting to question everyone's sanity. There are things called wagons. Reasons for scum to vote for the same person others are.
To be honest, I had forgotten that Pie had posted before about Kov (I remember there was discussion about it before), but it doesn't excuse the fact that he hopped on the wagon when it picked up. You asked for a case against Pie, I gave you a full-game case against Pie, including wagon hopping.
Oh.
AND I HATE HATE HATE HATE that bolded quote of yours. If you have a doubt that Pie may be scum to the point where you think you'll be fucked if he flips it, then -why are you letting his scumminess go unanswered-?!
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