Newbie 985 Game over

[NashiNashi]

Zachrulez, we are aware that you are also a player. No one expected you to tell people what to do, however you don't even bother to give any explanations on anything which makes me wonder about your priority.

It's possible to teach without "babying", and you are not doing it. People would never learn to swim if they don't do it on their own - but your push into the deep end and watch from sideline attitude is also very unhelpful. All it does is force the players to self-adapt by trial and error, and possibly acquire some pretty bad habits along the way.

Take my FOS as a fourth vote, even though I'm not going to do it before you give an explanation to answer all other people's suspicion.

[FakeGod]

I'm getting town read from zach, so don't expect me to join zach's wagon.

[Zachrulez]

Nashi, how has the game been harmed by my lack of explaining why a no lynch is a bad play? (If someone doesn't understand WHY it's a bad play, then speak up now and I'll explain it for everyone.)

It would be one thing if I was being criticized for this on day 2 after the town had actually voted through a no lynch, but that hasn't happened.

You're just making an issue out of something that isn't an issue.

[Excedrin]

Vote Count

FakeGod (1): Abe27342
Zachrulez (3): DavidParker, Kalofer, tvellalott
Kalofer (3): Nikanor, Zachrulez, FakeGod

not voting: Zombeh-Pug, NashiNashi
alive: 9 majority: 5

Day 1 Deadline, Sun Aug 8 21:21:00 PDT 2010

[Nikanor]

Something, intuitively about him, makes me think scum. Yet because I can’t pin point down why, this is conflicting. In the past I have passed pressing a “gut feeling” who later proved to be the winning scum, so this time I’m not going to ignore this.
Nikanor. Why should I vote Zombie-Pug over you?

Well I can say that it's because I'm not scum, but I doubt you'll believe that.
The best I can do is tell you to look at my meta. Look at a town game of mine and a scum game of mine, compare them to each other, then compare them to my play in this game. That should clear up your gut read on me.
Also, vote for Kalofer, not Zombeh-Pug.

He even asks “where did I screw up”(#195) within the game. I found this far too suicidal for a scum who knows what they are doing.

Does he look like he knows what he's doing, regardless of alignment?

And seriously Nik, why so merciless, isn't there at least a little bit of something gnawing at you in the back of your head telling you "he could be town", cause there certainly is in me for whoever I vote.

It's called "confidence."
Although you saying this makes me think that you could be town, ironically enough. You raise a good point on Zach, too. I'll look into his posts, because I don't remember him being particularly scummy.

[Zachrulez]

To be honest, my confidence in Kalofer scum is actually not as high now as it has been before.

I'm actually going to

Unvote: Vote: Tvelalott

I dislike the most his willingness to slap a third vote on someone while being critical of another player for doing this, while initially finding Kalofer scummy and then changing his mind and attacking fakegod for it. It doesn't smell right.

I think Parker has a strong chance of being scum too, he's taking a very non serious approach to the game while being completely confident that I'm scum. (Even stated 100%) It was countered that I shouldn't have taken that seriously, but if I ask a question and get an answer that's what I'm going to do.

Out of all the stances against me, I can kinda see where Kalofer and Nashi are coming from with their suspicions, but I don't understand why Parker is suspicious of me at all, and Tevlalott's reasoning on me is pretty weak overall, as are his stances on all his previous suspects when I took a closer look.

[FakeGod]

To be honest, my confidence in Kalofer scum is actually not as high now as it has been before.

I'm actually going to

Unvote: Vote: Tvelalott

I dislike the most his willingness to slap a third vote on someone while being critical of another player for doing this, while initially finding Kalofer scummy and then changing his mind and attacking fakegod for it. It doesn't smell right.

I think Parker has a strong chance of being scum too, he's taking a very non serious approach to the game while being completely confident that I'm scum. (Even stated 100%) It was countered that I shouldn't have taken that seriously, but if I ask a question and get an answer that's what I'm going to do.

Out of all the stances against me, I can kinda see where Kalofer and Nashi are coming from with their suspicions, but I don't understand why Parker is suspicious of me at all, and Tevlalott's reasoning on me is pretty weak overall, as are his stances on all his previous suspects when I took a closer look.

Unvote, Vote:tvellalott

I still don't see zach as scum, and I can't let go of the tvell's interaction with the Kalofer wagon that easily.

tvell looks like he's jumping from wagon to wagon, a very opportunistic voter.

Unfortunately, with almost 4 votes on zach, this wagon's going nowhere.

[Zombeh-Pug]

Zombeh-pug
You are another lurker. Being a lurker myself, this alone is not enough for me to vote, but it does make my attempt of analysing you difficult. So question. Why should I vote Nikanor over you?

I don't think you can really call me a lurker if you don't know my sign-in dates and if I'm posting at least once per day besides my v/la time. For the question, I don't think of myself as much of a lurker so if you want to make a vote based on a gut-feeling go ahead.

Oh and by the way Zombeh, that was an honest answer, I see no need for townies to lie and so I answered it, and instead of fabricating an answer I gave you the truth. Feel fre to think suspicious for that, If I were you, I'd think myself suspicious, as unfortunately lie detectors don't work over the internet.

I wasn't accusing you of lieing I was saying the apology at the end:

I won't do it again, because it was stupid...sorry.

Sounded like you were hoping I would rejoin your "he seems newbtown" crowd.

I'm going to

Vote:Kalofer

because he seems most suspicious to me after nashi made a couple of posts and tvell still seems suspicious, but not really as much as kal.

[tvellalott]

Two OMGUS votes? LMAO! I knew you two were scummy.
Zach: I've already explained twice how there is clearly a difference between "jumping on the bandwagon" and voting for someone because you think they're scummy. I explained why I voted for you. If I said it was because a magic 8-ball told me to (sorry Parker ) then that would be one thing, but I find both your voting pattern and your conduct up to now scummy.
FakeGod: You're voting for me because you think I'm "jumping from wagon to wagon?"... Are you following this game? My first two votes were completely random. My third vote I immediately retracted because Kalofer has enough pressure for such little evidence.

I'm pretty sure you two are the scum pair.

[Kalofer]

Yeah that's right zombeh, rally to nikanor's banner, smite down the infidel with holy justice. But if you really do find me suspicious go ahead and vote. I have null read on you right now since I haven't seen much from you to make an opinion. On another note I will borrow some of Nik's confidence to keep my vote on Zach whose actions I haven't forgotten or forgiven.
Tvell, you're as of now funnier than Parker lol, I have only this to ask you: are you drunk?
And speaking of David, da hell is he?

[Zombeh-Pug]

Yeah that's right zombeh, rally to nikanor's banner, smite down the infidel with holy justice.

Nik acutally asked if I would put you to L-1, but since zach and fake unvoted I'm only putting you to L-3 with my vote.

[Zachrulez]

Two OMGUS votes? LMAO! I knew you two were scummy.

If calling my vote OMGUS helps you to pretend that there's no actual reasoning for my vote, then feel free to call it that.

[Kalofer]

Where you're "putting me" (as if I'm some household item ) is irrelevant, what's relevant is that you are actually voting for me after Nik asked you to and this leads me to believe that you wanted to vote for me when I was L-2 but didn't...why? And what's the purpose of this vote seriously, just to keep the pressure until Fake and Zach decide to vote for me again?

[FakeGod]

Tvell, you're as of now funnier than Parker lol, I have only this to ask you: are you drunk?

[FakeGod]

Let me show you something, tvell.

My first two votes were completely random.

so you're saying that your DavidParker vote was completely random......

but,

UNVOTE

VOTE Kalofer

- You're very scummy my friend. I smell a rat!

FoS still on DavidParker

UNVOTE

Actually, 3 votes is enough.

FoS on Kalofer & DavidParker

Bold is mine.

If your vote on DavidParker was "completely random", how come you made sure you left

FoS

on David?

... Are you following this game?

Of course. How would I be able to point out

inconsistencies

in your posts (like I just did above) otherwise?

[NashiNashi]

Zachrulez

Can you define "harming a game"? If by that you meant that "your side didn't win", then yes day 1 is far too early for that. Still IMO a newbie game is about guiding and teacher first foremost. On post #12, Nikanor asked you whether you'll going to do an IC intro. You ignored him for 3 posts, then slapped a Wiki and a link in. If that alone is sufficient then why do we need an IC in a game? Anyone can google for those links. You did make some explanations on the first three pages, but after that, it was the SE who did the explaining.

Funny how you mentioned explaining No-Lyching, because that's the one question no one in here needed to ask yet.

Nikanor

I thought this degree of cluelessness is more likely to be a new town, as new scums would have an informed scum buddy who could coach him in private. Posts like #195 would've been asked in private if he's a scum IMO.

Before you ask - yes I think it could be one smart forged naivity. So right now I am on the side of thinking Kelofer's Town, but as the game progresses I may change my mind.

And yes, I get that it's impossible to defend oneself from "gut feelings", nor I expected you to. I do like your explanation though.

Zombie-pug

"Lurking" is the wrong term .What I should've said is "inactive". Either way, it makes you hard to read because of the lacking of volume .

Lurking was indeed the wrong term for it. My apologies.

[DavidParker]

And speaking of David, da hell is he?

I'm around, just my 8 ball is in the repair shop so I don't have anything to add right now.

[Zachrulez]

Zachrulez

Can you define "harming a game"? If by that you meant that "your side didn't win", then yes day 1 is far too early for that. Still IMO a newbie game is about guiding and teacher first foremost. On post #12, Nikanor asked you whether you'll going to do an IC intro. You ignored him for 3 posts, then slapped a Wiki and a link in. If that alone is sufficient then why do we need an IC in a game? Anyone can google for those links. You did make some explanations on the first three pages, but after that, it was the SE who did the explaining.

You have a differing opinion. It's key to recognize that this difference has no bearing on my alignment or yours. You suspect me for not conforming to your view of what an IC should be. What you should really be doing is looking at me as if I was any one of the 8 other players in the game and deciding what your opinion of me is based on my play... not by IC standards. Cause making the game about me being an IC and trying to judge me based your opinion of proper IC play isn't scumhunting. I do not try to use my IC role to influence newbie games. I've never played that way EVER as an IC, regardless of what alignment I happened to draw.

Before you take this argument any further, I want you to read my play in these links and decide whether you truly feel like this issue is worth pursuing after seeing my play as both town and scum.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 50&t=13465
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 50&t=13008
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 50&t=11742
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 50&t=13761

After reading those links, it should become pretty apparent the things you should look for that are actually signs of me being scum.

[Zachrulez]

And speaking of David, da hell is he?

I'm around, just my 8 ball is in the repair shop so I don't have anything to add right now.

This joke is beyond old now and is not an excuse for your lack of contribution toward any kind of reasoning for your vote.

[Zachrulez]

Where you're "putting me" (as if I'm some household item ) is irrelevant, what's relevant is that you are actually voting for me after Nik asked you to and this leads me to believe that you wanted to vote for me when I was L-2 but didn't...why? And what's the purpose of this vote seriously, just to keep the pressure until Fake and Zach decide to vote for me again?

After having another look at your iso. (and also in light of Tvel's play.) I'm actually leaning town on you now.

I'd urge you to take a closer look at both Parker and Tvel. (Especially their interactions with each other, and Tvel's quickly dissipating suspicion on Parker, whose contributions to the game have dropped rapidly concurrently with this change in read.)

[tvellalott]

@Zachrulez: I think you hit the nail on the head with #319. My suspicion of Parker is directly correlated to his participation in discussion. It could be a clever plan to start conflict and then cruise under the radar, but I don't think so. I went to the effort to go back and read through all the posts and formed new theories. I don't have anything concrete to go on, except that up until me you never voted for anyone first... that's it. You'd have to admit that it was at least partially OMGUS.

@FakeGod: Now that you've set it all out like that, I can see where you are coming from. What you have to understand is all that scum calling, FoS'ing and voting at the beginning was smoke and mirrors. I just wanted some reactions which unfortunately has brought unneeded suspicions on myself. My vote on Zachrulez was the first one where I actually had any reasoning and I admit that it isn't very much to go on. My suspicions towards you were raised by how quickly you agreed with Zachrulez and switched votes.

Now that I think about it, only one or even neither of you is probably scum. I just don't know. x_X

I'm going to stick with my vote for Zachrulez for now.

[DavidParker]

How's that OMGUS on me working out for you Zach?

[Zombeh-Pug]

Where you're "putting me" (as if I'm some household item ) is irrelevant, what's relevant is that you are actually voting for me after Nik asked you to and this leads me to believe that you wanted to vote for me when I was L-2 but didn't...why? And what's the purpose of this vote seriously, just to keep the pressure until Fake and Zach decide to vote for me again?

I get home from school and then make my posts most weekdays, and zach and fake had already unvoted by the time I got the chance to post yesterday. The purpose of my vote is that I find you most suspicious obviously.

[Zombeh-Pug]

Also, where'd Abe go?

[FakeGod]

Also, where'd Abe go?