Mini 1009 ÔÇô Popularity mafia (Game over - Mafia wins)

[Blackberry]

Theorizing Blackberry and I are scum together after what has can not come from a town state of mind. He "realizes" BB is scum, and calls me scum as well? And doesn't say I'm obvbussing, just blatant wagonhopping?

I don't think he truly believes I am scum with BB as he

claims as he has made no connections or posts to tie us together. This reads as a half-ass attempt to line up lynches.

The bolded part is actually what I look for typically and leads me to believe "Aha! Scum!" -- Thief stating that he feels that way about someone almost makes me think he may be town (aka I see it as a towntell... I'll have to go back and read everything and digust whether I would come to a conclusion that Thief did and if it's something I think I would see as town if I were in Thief's shoes or whether Thief's words are just something he is saying as mafia that he has used in the past and saw worked). Aka, if I can see Thief being genuine in this belief, I may actually reconsider my suspcions. Although, as I've pointed out, the contradictions and the semantics comments are red flags for me.

It's kind of hilarious how BB keeps repeating this phrase:

A genuine town player

as though using the word "town" as much as possible in a sentence could actually influence anyone's opinion of him (apart from the obvious No True Scotsman argument).
BB has consistently padded his arguments with this kind of drivel. Take this comment from post 123:

* I think the stance that the mafia can not genuinely look for scum the same way town do IS true. You disagree with that? When did I say two people think exactly alike? I find your bolded comment offensive, because you assume incorrect ideas. I am a very open-minded individual and am well aware that no two people play alike, regardless: mafia can not fake the sincere scumhunting that a real townsperson has. I don't see how you could think that stance is wrong.

Bits like "I am a very open-minded individual" accomplish nothing except frame the debate in terms of personal insult. Had the purpose of this comment been to refute Korts' point, he could have done so in one sentence, not five. If you remove the empty rhetoric from the post, you're not left with much.
~
I eagerly await the above promised analysis. I wouldn't mind a lurker wagon if those promises aren't fulfilled.

* I don't use the phrase genuine town to make people think I am town. I use it because I am trying to spread my theory around. The word genuine has more to do with

emotion

and

feeling

. That is my point of using that word.

* The "I am a very open-minded individual" comment was for the purpose of expressing that I was offended by being called otherwise.

* I like to post a lot because I am not afraid to express what is on my mind. I think people that type short things and sum things up in one sentence are typically people who are mafia and afraid that if they express themselves too much something will stick out.

* How you are attacking my post makes me think you're trying to look for small things to use as evidence (something mafia would do- when a townsperson looks at things, they usually point out what they see right away, what you are pointing out are very minor things that one would have to read and used twisted words to make it look like you have a point).

Vote count

(12 players alive = 7 to lynch before deadline)

(2) Thief - eljcko, Blackberry
(2) mothrax - scotmany12, ChannelDelibird
(2) drmyshottyizsik - mothrax, Korts
(1) Blackberry – drmyshottyizsik
(1) Iron Man – Simenon
(1) Korts - Thief

Not voting: Cuethlachtli, Iron Man, tumescence

:arrow: Day 1 – (Deadline is August 10)

[Cuetlachtli]

V/LA 7/29 to 8/24

I will have access, but not sure how much and only on my phone

Seeing how the deadline is August 10th and Days usually last three weeks, Mothrax could potentially be out TWO Days. I think this is grounds to start looking for a replacement for Mothrax.

[Blackberry]

V/LA 7/29 to 8/24

I will have access, but not sure how much and only on my phone

Seeing how the deadline is August 10th and Days usually last three weeks, Mothrax could potentially be out TWO Days. I think this is grounds to start looking for a replacement for Mothrax.

I concur.

[mothrax]

well crap... EBWOP:

V/LA till 8/4 (not 24)

[Cuetlachtli]

well crap... EBWOP:

V/LA till 8/4 (not 24)

aw ok I retract my previous statement then.

[Cuetlachtli]

Alright

vote: Korts

for soft-selling and wagon-hopping. I will give details upon request.


People I would like to hear more from:

Channel
Tumescence
Eljcko (on vacation until Aug. 1?)
Iron Man
Scotmany12

[Simenon]

* How you are attacking my post makes me think you're trying to look for small things to use as evidence (something mafia would do- when a townsperson looks at things, they usually point out what they see right away, what you are pointing out are very minor things that one would have to read and used twisted words to make it look like you have a point).

You're doing it again. That impulse to over-explain, with statements like "this is something mafia would do," or "this is my mafia philosophy," is still cheap and insecure padding. It allows you to take an authoritative tone, without having to make reasonable arguments. You're incorrect to say I'm "pointing out very minor things," since this is an issue in almost every post you've made.
Point specifically to a comment that you believe has been "twisted."

* I don't use the phrase genuine town to make people think I am town. I use it because I am trying to spread my theory around. The word genuine has more to do with emotion and feeling. That is my point of using that word.

So you claim.

* The "I am a very open-minded individual" comment was for the purpose of expressing that I was offended by being called otherwise.

Exactly.

* I like to post a lot because I am not afraid to express what is on my mind.

This is not an issue of post count. I don't care how much you post, so long as you say something meaningful.

I think people that type short things and sum things up in one sentence are typically people who are mafia and afraid that if they express themselves too much something will stick out.

Please don't express yourself. Emotion is easily contrived, and even worse, it's an excuse to justify bad arguments. I would like every town player to "sum things up in one sentence." Why is it so much trouble to be precise?
Of course, if you are scum, it will be much easier for you to go on posting like this, and then accuse anyone who brings it up of "not expressing themselves."
The conditions you provided on your support of the Thief wagon have been noted.
~

I will give details upon request.

Request.

[tumescence]

Please don't express yourself, [Blackberry]. Emotion is easily contrived, and even worse, it's an excuse to justify bad arguments. I would like every town player to "sum things up in one sentence." Why is it so much trouble to be precise?

BB's emotions and "drivel", as you call it in another post, helped me to get a read on him, and might help others to get a read on him. I don't see how you're justified in restricting BB's self-expression, when it potentially helps other players, and is nowhere near such a quantity as to hinder the gameflow.
==============================

@Cuetlachtli

: can you give your reads on other players too?

[Simenon]

Please don't express yourself, [Blackberry]. Emotion is easily contrived, and even worse, it's an excuse to justify bad arguments. I would like every town player to "sum things up in one sentence." Why is it so much trouble to be precise?

BB's emotions and "drivel", as you call it in another post, helped me to get a read on him, and might help others to get a read on him. I don't see how you're justified in restricting BB's self-expression, when it potentially helps other players, and is nowhere near such a quantity as to hinder the gameflow.

If he proves to be scum, I do think it has been enormously helpful. But if he is town, I can't see how his playstyle has been anything but a distraction.

[Simenon]

I don't mind verbosity or post length, but I would like highly concentrated arguments.

[Korts]

So Cuet, you completely ignored my last reply to you; your attack on me is basically for me having noted your overreaction; and you have contributed nothing of value other than being outraged first at Ecto, then at me for taking a closer look at you. Can you explain to me how any of this is helpful to the pro-town cause?

[scotmany12]

Cuet, explain your vote on korts.

[Simenon]

Vote count (12 players alive = 7 to lynch before deadline)

(2)

Thief

- eljcko, Blackberry
(2)

mothrax

- scotmany12, ChannelDelibird
(2)

drmyshottyizsik

- mothrax, Korts
(1)

Blackberry

– drmyshottyizsik
(1) Iron Man – Simenon
(1)

Korts

- Thief

Bolded are those regularly producing content.
This game is lagging. We need a wagon on someone quiet.

[Cuetlachtli]

Alright

vote: Korts

for

soft-selling and wagon-hopping

. I will give details upon request.

Alright, well I dunno if any of you have noticed or not, but Korts has concurred with every wagon and FOS thus far (BB, Monthrax, Iron Man, Thief, and me). In fact, he has even parroted some of the arguments for these wagons. In ISO's 0 and 1, he paraphrases Ecto's argument against BB and Monthrax. While in ISO's 4 and 7, he soft-sells an Iron Man, Thief, and Cuet lynch:

Thief's first two votes don't seem to be serving any scumhunting purpose. His lash out against Ecto is stupid as well. I could see myself supporting this wagon.

I also tend to agree with Simenon about Iron Man and Cuetlachtli. I'm surprised Cuetlachtli's overreaction to Ecto didn't raise more eyebrows.

Looks like Korts is eager to lynch.

And one other thing. Korts case against me is that I was overreacting to Ecto's attack. He basically qualifies an emotional response as scum behavior. He then goes on to contradict himself by replying to my questions with a emotional outburst of his own:

If you thought my response to Ecto was a overreaction, why didn't you vote to lynch me?

The fact that you're a low priority doesn't mean that you're not on the radar. Fuck off with the stupid questions, the world doesn't revolve around you.

I am not going to explain in detail anything, because I don't want to get into walls of text. I am going to give clear, concise responses. Why I think it was an overreaction is simple: your response was disproportionately large, detailed and emotional in comparison to Ecto's post.

And what the fuck do you mean by soft selling a lynch? I am not a salesperson, I just have multiple suspects.

Classic scum strawman tactics if you ask me.

One last point. Korts said that my "response [to Ecto] was disproportionately large, detailed and emotional in comparison to Ecto's post." Umm...I responded to everyone of Ecto's points against me, therefore the size of the post was justified and sufficient. It was also detailed, which is good for the town. And yes it was emotional, but every player plays with emotion.


Any more questions folks?

[Cuetlachtli]

@Cuetlachtli

: can you give your reads on other players too?

Will do this tomorrow.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Just posting to say I'm alive. I'd share my thoughts on everything, but nothing regarding my views has changed

[Blackberry]

I don't mind verbosity or post length, but I would like highly concentrated arguments.

If he proves to be scum, I do think it has been enormously helpful. But if he is town, I can't see how his playstyle has been anything but a distraction.

These statements are very telling to me about you as a person. You come off to me as someone who is very close-minded to how mafia should be played and what should be done.

We need a wagon on someone quiet.

I agree with this. This game seems to have lagged quite a bit.

Just posting to say I'm alive. I'd share my thoughts on everything, but nothing regarding my views has changed

Share your thoughts on everything. Also- what are your "views"?

[Simenon]

These statements are very telling to me about you as a person. You come off to me as someone who is very close-minded to how mafia should be played and what should be done.

I know a couple ways it shouldn't be played. Please prove me wrong.
However, I can separate your playstyle from your actual comments, which to my mind have been consistently scummy (if you want me to re-state examples, I can do so).
The "close-minded" accusation is pretty rich coming from someone who said:

I think people that type short things and sum things up in one sentence are typically people who are mafia and afraid that if they express themselves too much something will stick out.

I agree with this. This game seems to have lagged quite a bit.

Who would you suggest?

[Blackberry]

These statements are very telling to me about you as a person. You come off to me as someone who is very close-minded to how mafia should be played and what should be done.

I know a couple ways it shouldn't be played. Please prove me wrong.

How shouldn't it be played? How can I prove you wrong? If I can correctly identify one or two mafia members via my method before I die will that prove you wrong? (I'll make a big bold post saying that this person is my guess based on my method)

The "close-minded" accusation is pretty rich coming from someone who said:

I think people that type short things and sum things up in one sentence are typically people who are mafia and afraid that if they express themselves too much something will stick out.

If people say things in short snippits I can't get a good read on them and can't identify them as mafia. This is me encouraging people to express themselves more and talk.

I agree with this. This game seems to have lagged quite a bit.

Who would you suggest?[/quote]

Not really sure (I would suggest

drmyshottyizsik

, mostly because I don't feel he's doing anything on top of him voting me and me not liking his explanations - but that is bias in terms of who is being active and who isn't). I am under an assumption

Iron Man

is on some sort of V/LA because he disappeared in another game he was participating in.

I think I am more concerned with wanting everyone to just post more and put in input.

[Simenon]

How shouldn't it be played? How can I prove you wrong? If I can correctly identify one or two mafia members via my method before I die will that prove you wrong? (I'll make a big bold post saying that this person is my guess based on my method)

I know that you're trying to show I have a simplistic attitude towards the game, but obviously there is more than one way for a playstyle to be successful. Provoking content, for example, or analyzing lynches effectively.

[scotmany12]

I'll be home tomorrow, so I'll be able to focus more, but I just want to say I disagree with cuet's vote on korts.

Also, I'm not finding the theory discussion between BB and Sim to be necessary at all.

[Simenon]

Also, I'm not finding the theory discussion between BB and Sim to be necessary at all.

It's pretty boring, but he's asking the questions. Also,

nobody else is talking.

[Korts]

Classic scum strawman tactics if you ask me

Well I don't know about strawmanning, but the questions that those replies were in answer to seemed to be terribly loaded ones.

Nor am I claiming that emotions are scummy. They are just another point of reference in analysis, and your reaction to Ecto didn't seem appropriate. I do find it interesting that you lash out at Ecto when he makes a case on you, and when I first make a comment about your overreaction, you immediately start building a case against me. This, really, is the sum of your contributions to the thread.

As far as me supporting most wagons that emerged, that's entirely true. but my motives weren't what you make them out to be. This game needs a catalyst of some kind, and I'm trying to find something that I can stick to. I'm not particularly suspicious of any of the people I've voted or expressed willingness to vote so far, just more suspicious of them than the rest.

vote: eljcko

I remember him posting some, but I don't actually remember what he said. Reading back, it's all marginal stuff. He also hasn't posted since the game slowed down, namely since the 23rd. Seems like he wants to stay under the radar and has no intention of promoting discussion if it dies down on its own. Support plz.

[Cuetlachtli]

I told Johoohno earlier but i will not be here for a week with limited internet access.

I will be back Aug. 1st.

Did you look over this Korts?

[Cuetlachtli]

Reads

Town

Cuetlachtli

Scummy Part 1

Korts

Simenon

scotmany12

Scummy Part 2

mothrax
Blackberry

Null Tell

Iron Man
tumescence
eljcko
Thief
drmyshottyizsik(

Ectomancer

)
ChannelDelibird

Explanations

I think my reaction to Ecto's argument or case against me was sufficient because I answered all of his points against me. The folks mentioned in

Scummy Part 1

don't have a problem with my argument, yet they seem to think that I overreacted, which doesn't make sense to me. All three of them go on to "soft-sell" my lynch:

I also tend to agree with Simenon about Iron Man and Cuetlachtli. I'm surprised Cuetlachtli's overreaction to Ecto didn't raise more eyebrows.

I don't think your framing this right. I think on the third post of a game, a player is entitled to both agree that the RVS is useful and not immediately begin analysis (although given your lengthy first post your might disagree with this).
That being said, Cuet is flailing badly.

drmyshottyizsik needs to start contributing. Also, I was never impressed with ecto at all, and I really did not like his vote on iron man, or his vote on cuet. Though cuet's reaction was horrible.

Scummy Part 2

is mainly based off this:

I feel like my being defensive of BB is going to cause trouble later in the game, especially if by some weird chance he flips scum

If Mothrax or BB flip scum, I wouldn't be surprised if the other flipped scum.

Null Tells

are because either the player hasn't posted enough or I don't buy the case against them.

Alternative Theory's

My scum team theory's posted above may be wrong. Since half the players participating in this game haven't posted an adequate amount of content, it is likely that a combination of 3 or less of my

Null Tells

are scum.


I encourage everyone else to post their reads. Since the game has slowed down a bit, this could help facilitate discussion.