New York 116 - Prozacs Large Normal - Who won?

[Tazaro]

How is that defense? I was answering BenMage's question about why I thought Anon's suspicion of him was valid.

[mothrax]

@TF: I wasn't worried about an early D-1 wagon because they happen. I figured it would bottom out at about l-3/l-4 and oh look, I was right... as per attacking digi and not defending myself, the best defense is a good offense... what I say about myself will be interpreted however you want to interpret it... what I say about others speaks more. Why quit scumhunting if I don't have too?
Also, C: WHAT? I voted for him because he made the comment "I will jump on whatever wagon looks fun." Not because it looked fun... if you are going to attack me, at least do it well... that means reading the entirety of my posts, including punctuation and the last word of a sentence.

Unvote, Vote:Toon Fighter

It seems to me like you are trying to say under the radar a little with only 6 posts in ISO. Also, it looks like you are fishing for reasons to justify your vote... which btw is not for who you say you are the most suspicuous of.

[Wraith]

How is that defense? I was answering BenMage's question about why I thought Anon's suspicion of him was valid.

Oh. *slaps self* Took it out of context, sorry.

However, Benmage doesn't look particularly scummy to me. Sure, he pushed a policy lynch on Lowell, but IMO if you look at Lowell's actions in THIS game alone, I think it can be justified to lynch him on a "lynch all players using craplogic and randomvotes after RVS" policy. Shortly put, if he is going to contribute something he needs to start doing it now, or else I'd advocate lynching him solely for being dangerous is a LyLo situation. Judging by the fact that he hasn't posted in what - three days? - it doesn't look like he's going to contribute at all.

[Wraith]

Excuse me, I'm an idiot, cuz he posted yesterday. But he's posted 9 times for 14 pages of discussion that have absolutely no material.

[Tazaro]

... it doesn't look like he's going to contribute at all.

I find it interesting though, Wraith, that BenMage used his time to cross-examine me about policy lynching Lowell. It's like he saw my suspicion of him in my post saying I would ISO him, and he wants to see if he can stymie another vote coming his way. I'm not liking some ofthe people's reactions to pressure in this game.

[Tazaro]

^OOps: Wraith wrote the quoted thing, not me.

[Benmage]

Anon's point is that you voted for Lowell for a bogus reason. It's bogus to vote someone for something they do when they are town. Scum are more likely to vote for bogus reasons.

^Without using the word "bogus," Lowell's null-tell lack of contribution is no cause for vote.

Maybe in the event that there's a day in which there's a risk of a no lynch. Other than that,

I wouldn't mind doing it on day one if everyone else agreed.

SO on the one hand I acted bogus for attacking Lowell for his "null tell" and on the other hand your down to do it D1 if everyone else agrees. Fence sitting much?

[Benmage]

I'm not liking some ofthe people's reactions to pressure in this game.

I don't like open ended statements. What was wrong with my cross examination, or my questioning of what you found suspicious?

[Tazaro]

1) Hey, the only way everybody is going to agree to policy lynch Lowell is if there's no possibility that's there's something better to do with our votes. It's a moot point really and we have to act as a collective, but I'm not going to suggest that it's good play to vote for Lowell if no one else cares about policy lynching him.
2) I said that Charlie's reaction to pressure made me not know if I can trust him. I have a problem with cross examination if you're doing it just because I said I was suspicious of you in my opinion post of people. You only asked me about suspicions that were about YOU; you asked me about Anon's gist. I don't mean to have a debate here or anything but if you're town play less selfishly because your not doing yourself any favors.

[Wraith]

@Tazaro: While I did bring up the subject of a Lowell policy lynch in my last post, I'm not voting for him on policy, I'm voting for him because he seems the scummiest. Benmage honestly doesn't seem scummy to me, but if you have anyone else who you think is scummier than Lowell (besides Benmage) let me know.

However, I'm not sure if someone brought this up earlier, but I might be better suited putting my vote for someone else. Lowell isn't that active and has drawn fire from most everyone for only his lurking/fence-sitting/wagoning. If we lynch him and he does by chance flip town, we'll have nothing. Maybe we should lynch Benmage after all, since he's semi-active, has drawn fire for multiple reasons, and has enemies. If Benmage flips town, which I find more likely, we'll have more material to work off of during Day 2.

Still, for now I'm going to keep my vote on Lowell unless I find a better suspect or a better reason to vote for someone else.

Mod, what's the deadline for this again?

[Benmage]

1) Hey, the only way everybody is going to agree to policy lynch Lowell is if there's no possibility that's there's something better to do with our votes. It's a moot point really and we have to act as a collective, but I'm not going to suggest that it's good play to vote for Lowell if no one else cares about policy lynching him.

Okay, lets take a few steps back. Are you willing to do it D1 only if there are no alternatives,a nd everyone agrees to it? If this is the case than I return to my question. When do YOU think it would be most ideal to lynch a player like Lowell.

2) I said that Charlie's reaction to pressure made me not know if I can trust him. I have a problem with cross examination if you're doing it just because I said I was suspicious of you in my opinion post of people. You only asked me about suspicions that were about YOU; you asked me about Anon's gist. I don't mean to have a debate here or anything but if you're town play less selfishly because your not doing yourself any favors.

I have a real problem with people making blank open ended statements. If your going to put pressure, put pressure. I wanted to know if you even knew the reason Anon was voting me, or if you were just piggybacking suspicion.

I don't mean to have a debate here or anything but if you're town play less selfishly because your not doing yourself any favors.

Not sure what your getting at here. But I am experienced and don't need to be told how to play this game. I don't need a mislead poorly executed easy scum piggybacked wagon. I'm questioning the others voting me, you just happen to be present while they're away.

[Tazaro]

1) Hey, the only way everybody is going to agree to policy lynch Lowell is if there's no possibility that's there's something better to do with our votes. It's a moot point really and we have to act as a collective, but I'm not going to suggest that it's good play to vote for Lowell if no one else cares about policy lynching him.

A)

Okay, lets take a few steps back. Are you willing to do it D1 only if there are no alternatives,a nd everyone agrees to it? If this is the case than I return to my question. When do YOU think it would be most ideal to lynch a player like Lowell.

2) I said that Charlie's reaction to pressure made me not know if I can trust him. I have a problem with cross examination if you're doing it just because I said I was suspicious of you in my opinion post of people. You only asked me about suspicions that were about YOU; you asked me about Anon's gist. I don't mean to have a debate here or anything but if you're town play less selfishly because your not doing yourself any favors.

B)

I have a real problem with people making blank open ended statements. If your going to put pressure, put pressure. I wanted to know if you even knew the reason Anon was voting me, or if you were just piggybacking suspicion.

I don't mean to have a debate here or anything but if you're town play less selfishly because your not doing yourself any favors.

C)

Not sure what your getting at here. But I am experienced and don't need to be told how to play this game. I don't need a mislead poorly executed easy scum piggybacked wagon. I'm questioning the others voting me, you just happen to be present while they're away.

A) Okay, fine. Day one would be the time for it in an ideal context. Ideally (which we're not dealing with) I think Day One is obviously the time . It just that I think that's moot because it's a real

hypothetical

.
B) I've read enough before that second post of mine to know people's (like Anon's) explicit thoughts about other people. And I'll use pressure how and if I want.
C) Well, If your point is that this place is a slow moving place where people just check in

whenever

, I've come to have that thought too.

[Tazaro]

But what do YOU think of Charlie, BenMage?

[Tazaro]

I mean, do you think Charlie would merit a policy lynch for being stiffnecked and needing pressure to analyze?

[Benmage]

A) Okay, fine. Day one would be the time for it in an ideal context. Ideally (which we're not dealing with) I think Day One is obviously the time . It just that I think that's moot because it's a real

hypothetical

.
B) I've read enough before that second post of mine to know people's (like Anon's) explicit thoughts about other people. And I'll use pressure how and if I want.
C) Well, If your point is that this place is a slow moving place where people just check in

whenever

, I've come to have that thought too.

C - Game days can last three weeks or such because the game can be slow paced.
A/B - So in this back n forth between you and I, you in B state that you've read enough to have a good understanding of Anon's thoughts(vote on me). Which you piggy back on by saying you are suspicious of me for the same reasons. Now in A you yield that D1 would be the most ideal time to lynch Lowell. Sounds like you agree with me. Therefore at least from my perspective I see inconsistencies in what you are saying.

I'm willing to vote you for this inconsistency itself, (I think the inconsistency yields that you are guilty of piggybacking illogical suspicion that you yourself disbelieve)but I still want to look at some other players first(Anon for example).

Which ding ding ding might take a couple days, or whenever I get around to it, cause oh hey its the weekend.

[Tazaro]

The "inconsistency" is not there. I want to post in other threads for now, so I'll be busy.

[Benmage]

I mean, do you think Charlie would merit a policy lynch for being stiffnecked and needing pressure to analyze?

Policy may be the wrong word here. I disliked that Charlie only responded to pressure. Which I've already stated.

This is a reason why I need to take a better look at this game to see whose guilties, because right now I see several scummy people. I also have lingering questions I want answered with others.

[Benmage]

The "inconsistency" is not there. I want to post in other threads for now, so I'll be busy.

Take your time, but your leaving quite the accusation on yourself... unanswered.

[Toogeloo]

@TF: I wasn't worried about an early D-1 wagon because they happen. I figured it would bottom out at about l-3/l-4 and oh look, I was right... as per attacking digi and not defending myself, the best defense is a good offense... what I say about myself will be interpreted however you want to interpret it... what I say about others speaks more. Why quit scumhunting if I don't have too?
Also, C: WHAT? I voted for him because he made the comment "I will jump on whatever wagon looks fun." Not because it looked fun... if you are going to attack me, at least do it well... that means reading the entirety of my posts, including punctuation and the last word of a sentence.

Unvote, Vote:Toon Fighter

It seems to me like you are trying to say under the radar a little with only 6 posts in ISO. Also, it looks like you are fishing for reasons to justify your vote... which btw is not for who you say you are the most suspicuous of.

You are most certainly not out of the woods yet mothrax. There are plenty of people who still consider you the best lynch of the day. It appears to me that one of the scummiest looking people in the game is just looking for an easy person to vote with an easy reason.

Unvote
Vote: mothrax

[AGar]

He initially tried to push a very scummy policy lynch on Lowell for reasons that do not benefit the town in the least bit.

This is an inaccurate statement.

Let me ask you something. Do you value meta at all? Do you ever use it in supplementing cases or gut reads or even defense of players?

I value meta quite a bit. Which is why I'm against lynching Lowell - IT'S FUCKING NULL.

Since his policy lynching attempt has all but failed, Benmage has disappeared. I know he's blaming the /in-vitational game for taking up his time, but the game really wasn't that much of a time constraint, and it got shut down. Two days ago. The fallout shouldn't be absorbing all of his time, and he doesn't appear to be in any other games. In other words, he should be posting. And he's not.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Benmage

Disappeared is such an exaggeration. People get consumed elsewhere. In life, in other games. A few days is nothing. There are also way worse non-contributors than myself. This looks like a pathetic attempt at tossing a vote my way. Again, you love the misstatements for I am in several other games. Did you even bother to look, because it should've been soooo easy to see this. But you just like to make baseless statements to make your points sound better. It’s quite the fallacy.

Actually I did. You aren't in any of the queues that list players, and I didn't feel like going through every open and large theme. So apparently you're playing in 3 of them, but regardless, you're only excuse for taking time away was "invitational was interesting and distracting."

[Benmage]

IT'S FUCKING NULL.

Woah let's ease off that throttle buddy. Breathe.

Since his policy lynching attempt has all but failed, Benmage has disappeared. I know he's blaming the /in-vitational game for taking up his time, but the game really wasn't that much of a time constraint, and it got shut down. Two days ago. The fallout shouldn't be absorbing all of his time, and he doesn't appear to be in any other games. In other words, he should be posting. And he's not.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Benmage

Disappeared is such an exaggeration. People get consumed elsewhere. In life, in other games. A few days is nothing. There are also way worse non-contributors than myself. This looks like a pathetic attempt at tossing a vote my way. Again, you love the misstatements for I am in several other games. Did you even bother to look, because it should've been soooo easy to see this. But you just like to make baseless statements to make your points sound better. It’s quite the fallacy.

Actually I did. You aren't in any of the queues that list players, and I didn't feel like going through every open and large theme. So apparently you're playing in 3 of them, but regardless, you're only excuse for taking time away was "invitational was interesting and distracting."

So I should let you know every time I'm wiping my ass?? Are you serious right now with this crap. The invitational ate my time keeping me away from here. You can't argue that. Should I list everything that distracts me? Clearly you aren’t worried about the last line about the invitational alone being interesting and distracting or you wouldn’t have looked to see if I was in any other ques/games. So your point now that my other games and RL is null…is bullshit.

You forgot to answer these:

@Agar what do you think of Wraith's vote on Lowell?

@Agar what do you think of Anon?

@Agar what do you think of the other players saying Policy lynches D1 are the best time for one. And or would be for a policy lynch.

Could you also say when you think would be the best/most ideal time to lynch a player like Lowell.

[Benmage]

I meant to say in the top part with the valuing of meta. That you just witnessed a game, yes get mith-ended, that had me as a townie pushing an early policy lynch. Just cause you couldn't grasp my points or see eye to eye with me there, or here, doesn't make me scum nor early policy lynching scummy.

I was town there, does that weigh into your beliefs about this game at all?

[Wraith]

Hey, everyone, why don't we stop the flamefest before it starts getting ugly and discuss things properly please. It doesn't matter if you think Lowell's play in other games is bad or scummy or what, what DOES matter is the fact that LOWELL'S PLAY IN THIS GAME IS ANTI-TOWN. How about instead of focusing on player-focused policy lynches and meta we focus on the only policy lynch everyone follows - lynch the scum.

[mothrax]

Everyone who finds me scummy (or finds me to be the "scummiest person in the game") please explain to me what exactly it is you find me scummy for. Since multiple people are claiming that they "don't like" such and such about me and that I have apparently failed to properly defend myself against attacks, I would like to know specifically what those attacks are, since all I see are "reaction to vote" as well as "needs more pressure"
I can't defend myself if I don't know why you are attacking me...
I will say this (again.) My reaction to the bandwagon was relaxed for multiple reasons.
A)It wasn't that large of a wagon, L-4/L-3 are not worrisome numbers for me, especially relatively early D1.
B)If the wagon had been succesful, it would have aided town anyways... I have people claiming I am just looking out for myself which I don't see. Yeah, it would be nice to stay alive, but if I die, I die and can still win. My death would have also allowed the town to analyze the wagon on me, and analyze my interaction with others (i.e. who came down on me hardest, etc...) IMO voting patterns and interactions with confirmed players are some of the most resourceful tools for town to use.

[Toogeloo]

Everyone who finds me scummy (or finds me to be the "scummiest person in the game") please explain to me what exactly it is you find me scummy for. Since multiple people are claiming that they "don't like" such and such about me and that I have apparently failed to properly defend myself against attacks, I would like to know specifically what those attacks are, since all I see are "reaction to vote" as well as "needs more pressure"
I can't defend myself if I don't know why you are attacking me...
I will say this (again.) My reaction to the bandwagon was relaxed for multiple reasons.
A)It wasn't that large of a wagon, L-4/L-3 are not worrisome numbers for me, especially relatively early D1.
B)If the wagon had been succesful, it would have aided town anyways... I have people claiming I am just looking out for myself which I don't see. Yeah, it would be nice to stay alive, but if I die, I die and can still win. My death would have also allowed the town to analyze the wagon on me, and analyze my interaction with others (i.e. who came down on me hardest, etc...) IMO voting patterns and interactions with confirmed players are some of the most resourceful tools for town to use.

I personally don't like the vote on Toon Fighter is my primary reason. It's a lurkish vote. There are plenty of other hot issues you could have taken a part in, but you decided to go after someone with no other heat at the moment. It's a kind of way to appear active like you are hunting, but you aren't. You haven't even backed up the reason with content since I voted you over it. It's telling me that you have no conviction for your current vote, and were just trying to put your vote somewhere that wouldn't draw any attention, and maybe you might slip through the day forgotten amongst the masses bickering about Benmage and policy lynches. That is ultra suspicious to me, and your previous behavior which brought you scrutiny and a wagon earlier keeps you on my radar. I only unvoted you earlier because I detested the stalemate that had formed between you and digi.