Open 227 - Friends and Enemies

[ZeroFang]

I am the last

mason

. I tried to breadcrumb this a little and thought I might die last night for it, but whatever.

You've told us that breadcrumbs exist without providing any examples. Typically, they exist so you can refer to them later to back up your claim. You didn't, which makes your post sound like desperate scum.

Needless to say, I approve as well.

[Ythan]

Is that an Oct hammer? Regardless, I approve. I'd rather not drive out the last mason for Low's sake.

[Miyu]

Wow Octupis. Not even giving others a chance to see it before you hammer.

[Ythan]

Low if you're town it'd be good for you to show us those crumbs asap.

[TheButtonmen]

The Day Ending Vote Count:

ZeroFang:
AKnottedRope:
Sanxion:
chauchaudotcom:

Lowell (5): ZeroFang, Ythan, chauchaudotcom, Sanxion, Octupis

Ythan:
Miyu:
Octupis (2): Lowell, AKnottedRope

That's a lynch.

[TheButtonmen]

Another one bites the dust.

Lowell is

Scum

Day Three is over, Night Three ends August 3rd 07:00 EST.

If you have a QT you may use it until that time, if you have a night action submit it in the QT in bold.

[TheButtonmen]

Day Four Start:

The scum have struck agian!

During the night someone has killed

Miyu the townie.

Deadline is August 16th.

If you have a QT stop using them until end of Day 4.

[chauchaudotcom]

Okay so now that there's only one scum left the proper play would be for the mason to claim right?

[ZeroFang]

There are four townies, one mason, and one scum for a total of six players. If we mislynch, that's five players going into night, the mason has a 3/4 chance of surviving. Assuming he survived, he could claim during lylo where we'd get much more use out of him.

I'd suggest we wait. The mason shouldn't claim today unless he's about to get lynched.

[chauchaudotcom]

No. Waiting until lylo will allow scum the chance to counter claim without our ability to check which claim is true which would be far worse for town. The mason should claim today to narrow our suspects down so that we can lynch scum today versus waiting until we're cornered in lylo.

[Ythan]

Saving the claim for lylo is a mistake. All that will do is narrow down our lynch to the claimant and inevitable counterclaimant.

[TheButtonmen]

Ugh for the second time a replacement fell through, the search continues!

Though if any of you know any interested parties by all means have them PM me.

[ZeroFang]

*facepalm* right.

So the mason claims today.

[Sanxion]

Well, your reasoning looks good at first Zero. Nevertheless, I agree with chau and Ythan, the mason should claim today because of the claim-counterclaim issue.

[ZeroFang]

I'm not the mason for the record.

[Ythan]

Should we do popcorn, or pick scummiest players to claim earliest?

[Octupis]

I'm going to be V/LA until tomorrow. I'm decorating today, and out this evening. Sorry about this, I'll post tomorrow.

[Sanxion]

Eh, considering Zero already claimed not mason, maybe it'd be best if he pick the next person, and so on...
or it could be en mass. I don't see why holding off the claim with a mini game benefits town. Just, if we do it that way, we could have zero pick who goes next.

[ZeroFang]

ISO 1
States I'm town, and that chacha and don are scum

ISO 3
Big post, does a full evaluation
AKR is town
CSL is town (later flipped scum)
Smash bugs him (later replaced, to lazy to check who )
Octips is scummy for voting, then unvoting Lowell (who was scum), and for editing his posts a lot before he posts them
chacha.com is scum for being timid and overreacting

ISO 7
FoS's Xite
Tries to link chau to CSL if he flips scum (and he did)
Revotes chau

ISO 11
Votes Octipus, makes a big case on him
"I agree with knotted that this is the place to start." (may I reiterate the AKR connection here?)

By the way, this is all while AKR attacks Octipus. Just throwing that out there.

ISO 12 and ISO 13
Further attacks Octi, says I'm very scummy

And the rest are fluff, i.e. why we lynched him
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

In my mind, his constant attacks on chau and Octi pretty much confirm them as town. His lack of attacks (and his agreeing with) AKR makes him the scummiest via connection to Lowell. They've both been really pushing for a Octi lynch. Infact, ISOing AKR reveals that he's been tunneling him since the game began.

Vote: AKR

[ZeroFang]

Crap, I forgot the mason thing.

At this point, the mason should just come right out and claim. There's no point in having us pop-corn claim as there's only one role to claim and the rest are going to claim townie anyway. I say the mason claims outright.

The mason has to claim today.

[reason]

No. Waiting until lylo will allow scum the chance to counter claim without our ability to check which claim is true which would be far worse for town. The mason should claim today to narrow our suspects down so that we can lynch scum today versus waiting until we're cornered in lylo.

Saving the claim for lylo is a mistake. All that will do is narrow down our lynch to the claimant and inevitable counterclaimant.

[/reason]

[chauchaudotcom]

Mod: who are you trying to replace right now?

I really don't think a claim order matters because the chances of scum fake claiming mason today are slim since it's virtually suicide for them. So the mason should just claim now.

In any case, I'm not gonna say much until the mason claims because who claims mason will determine my vote.

[TheButtonmen]

AKnottedRope asked for a replacement.

[Octupis]

AKnottedRope asked for a replacement.

Isn't he going to be back in a few days? If a replacement can't be found, I wouldn't mind waiting for him. I have some questions.

Anyway, I claim mason. I haven't really planned any formal or deliberate softclaims that can prove my innocence, because my game isn't that sophisticated, and I've had trouble just surviving the pressure that I have endured, let alone incorporating subtle, yet substantial softclaims. However, certain aspects of my behaviour point towards my claim being true. For example:

• In post 254, I asked about whether or not the masons should claim because I didn't know and I was concerned about doing the wrong thing for the town, and giving the mafia the advantage.
  
  
  
• Here, I ask for a second time, about whether or not the masons should claim, because I appreciate the importance of the masons in this setup, and as I say in the post, I'm not familiar with the mechanics of the game.
  
  
  
• In post 479, I ask again about mason protocol for that particular day, because I'm unsure.
  
  
  
• This quote illustrates my point well (post 485):
  

  First, the asking the last mason to claim, to me, is beyond indefensible as a strategy. In general I don't think "proposing a horrible plan" is scummy (just horrible), but in this case I think he may have been trying to suck out the last mason before anyone had time to say "uh, wait a minute, that's dumb." But to be clear, it is dumb for the last mason to claim. Don't.

  Quote the passage where I asked for the last mason to claim. I was asking others what they thought on the subject because I am uncertain as to the best approach. It seems now though that it is unaminiously thought that the mason claiming is a bad idea for whatever reason. That's fine. I am not advocating that the last mason should claim, I just want to know more about why AKR has said what he has said. His intolerane of actual discussion seems to be prohibiting it at the moment though.

However, the most conclusive evidence is my uncharacteristic confidence in regards to Lowell's scumminess (here). I have made a point of my indecisiveness in this game, yet I was so sure that Lowell was scum because he claimed mason, so I knew he scum. I would have given everyone else a chance to comment on his claim, but I knew it was false, and I didn't want him getting off the hook, in case he was bluffing, and we didn't lynch because of that.

---

I have a case to make on AKR, which has kinda been made by Zero already, but I'll clarify my case that I started yesterday, but it's back to the decorating for now. Sorry about the delay with my claiming. I'll check back tonight.

[chauchaudotcom]

Good. My suspicions were right.

Now my vote will go to either AKR or Ythan. I've been really busy so I haven't had time to go back and look for connections but I shall do that today.

[chauchaudotcom]

Actually, I change my mind. Looking at the Wagons I really don't think AKR is likely to be scum. He stayed off both CSL and Lowell's wagons though I feel scum were more likely to buss at least one of their partners, especially given the way things went down. Furthermore, the claimed 'buddying' to AKR is far too obvious for me to believe that it's legit scum buddying. Seems like Lowell was trying to fabricate connections in case he died. So my top picks are Zero and Ythan.

Skimming through their posts though, I gotta say Zero seems more likely to be scum to me.

Vote: ZeroFang

Zero Analysis:
- 2 RVS votes, claiming "I felt bad cause I voted Ythan as my RV but then someone else voted him too. I'd feel weird if I just unvoted, so I voted someone based on something arbitrary, like the dead line." and "I noticed two other people voted him." (worrying about an rv wagon)
- Voted don for misread reasons, later on when he realized he misread he was still set on keeping his vote on don
- Post 17 mason rolefishing
- Post 21 people commentary - Ythan scummy (kinda), CSL scummy, Oct town, Chau town, Xite town, AKR no comment
- Post 22 "As for who's scum, I honestly have no idea." ..fence sitting, then claims top scum are CSL, Chau and San based off 'gut'...contradicts post 21
- Votes Lowell
- "Going with gut, I'd say Sanxion is the townie in that group (though I still suspect him, so he stays)." This comment bothered me...a lot
- "I still have yet to explain the Sanxion-AKR-Lowell alliance I was talking about. Damn, I'm lazy. Lowells at L-2 btw, so your vote would take him to L-1." seems to be purposefully putting it off.