Super Smash Bros. Mafia! GAME OVER!!

[Furry]

@Furry: Why is MPR a good lynch?

Because what he is saying we do gives the scum influence over the vig kill regardless of whos hands it ends up in. People will already be held responsable enough for their kill to prevent random shootings, but what he suggests takes the power away from who the town is calling town and giving it to a group that has scum in it influencing the choice.

You guys make me laugh. You and Furry both.

Stop beating the "OMG if there is a mafia bus driver he must be scum" horse. I already said that was the one of the few roles I knew of that could interfere with the smash ball kill

Seriously, I'm glad now I don't know about other roles as if I had mentioned them and there turned out to be one of those roles that the mafia had I'd be seriously screwed

The way you talked about it, made it sound like any driver that existed would be out there to screw up the vig in the hands of town, which only scum would do. You seemed to discount the fact that a driver would be town.

[whoami10]

WHY THE FUCK DID NOBODY TELL ME THIS GAME STARTED
SERIOUSLY? CHRIST.

FUCKING GODDAMMIT.
SOMEONE GIVE ME A TL;DR VERSION. I DON'T DO CATCHUP POSTS.

[frayed]

WHY THE FUCK DID NOBODY TELL ME THIS GAME STARTED
SERIOUSLY? CHRIST.

FUCKING GODDAMMIT.
SOMEONE GIVE ME A TL;DR VERSION. I DON'T DO CATCHUP POSTS.

About time you start, then.

Will post content later, busy atm.

[tanstalas]

You seemed to discount the fact that a driver would be town.

Replace the "would" with "could" and I will somewhat agree with you, it's not that I "discounted" the idea that a driver "could" be town it's that there would be no need for me to bring it up if a bus driver was a "town only" role. There would be no need for me to bring up the bus driver switching the vig kill if it was a town driver - so why would I mention it?

Although, now that you mention it. Say for instance there is a town driver, and he had a really good idea that person X was scum, however the town all thought (or maybe just a slight majority) that person Y was scum, what would prevent the town driver from switching Person X with person Y?

If he is right then he would smile contently to himself that he was correct, if he was wrong, well, he wouldn't say anything (well he wouldn't say anything if he was right either as you wouldn't want scum to know who/what you are) but we would only find out about it at the end of the game. Not saying that a particular town member would go against what the majority of the town wanted, however after seeing some of you post for the first time in this thread, I also wouldn't put it past some of you.

*DISCLAIMER* And also just clarifying the above "he" in my post - could mean a guy or a girl, just I assume the majority of people on the internet are male. So if a MALE "mafia" bus driver does show up - it does not mean that I had advance knowledge about it

*DISCLAIMER for my PREVIOUS DISCLAIMER* I am not sexist in any way, shape or form. If you are female when I refer to you I will refer to you as female, unless I forget, or inebriated at the time of posting

[manho]

[FRIEND]

@manho: No, I (Friend) haven't.

fate always catch scums. [REDACTED]

(i really can't talk about that ongoing games.)

[manho]

3. Smash Ball. Players with a Smash Ball get a Night Kill. If you get a Night Kill,you can use it on anyone but themself. Players with the Smash Ball must use the Final Smash: [Insert Username] command. It is guaranteed to succeed regardless of when you send it in, who you want to kill, what alignment they're part of, etc.

someone read the rule. the smash ball kill is guaranteed to succeed. i really don't think the kill can be redirected, otherwise a scum redirector means another night kill for the scum. maybe someone can ask the mod to clarify it.

i disagree with the second lynch things, it ruin the propose of kingmaking fate.

still haven't decided the lynch vote.

[Furry]

FUCKING GODDAMMIT.
SOMEONE GIVE ME A TL;DR VERSION. I DON'T DO CATCHUP POSTS.

Fate is town
Pikachu is town
Paltry is town

MPR, kirby and diddin are all scummy.

Catchup over.

@tan - It was one of those things where you assumed what is not the normal assumption, which at times can mean you have additonal information about setup (ie scum). I also doubt most town would be enough of an idiot to drive a vig kill to their preference intentionally. It will result in quite a few problems for the town later. This is not the strongest tell, or any type of a tell at all unless there is a scum driver, just is something that if the situation ever arises to look back at and reevaluate.

[manho]

lynch vote: diddin

he gave the worst vibe out of the 3 given by furry.

[SGRaaize]

However the con is that if the mafia know who we are going to vig kill they can swap that person with another so the vig ends up killing someone else (which may end up with a townie dying from vig kill AND then we lynch the vig the next day who may also flip town)

Please explain.

And I disagree with having a town directed vig kill. If we trust someone enough for them to be voted town by the majority of the players in the game, then I think we should trust them with the vig kill, as far as early game goes. I think that would be a plan to implement D5, when all the obvtown people begin to clear out/lose the ability to have smash balls.

Bus driver

We tell whoever has the ball to kill person X
Mafia Bus driver swaps person X with Townie A
Vig ends up killing townie A
Town gets pissed next day because vig didn't kill person X and instead kills a townie
Town lynches vig because they killed a townie and find out that vig was a townie as well

Not sure who mods handle night actions here, have not played a game on MS yet that has had a bus driver. I would assume the above would happen unless vig PM's mod with his NK before a bus driver switched people?

If vig put PM to mod before bus driver would, would vig get the NK then the driver just swap the dead body with whoever?

That's indeed bad, I wouldn't be surprised if there were redirecters and/or busdrivers around here, maybe we shouldn't do it after all.
Plus, they could make us lynch the one who used the smash ball, because he used it on someone he wasn't supposed to target

[AGM]

Mega FoS: tanstalas

I actually thought of the EXACT same argument as you and agree 100% that we should not have town directed kills. There is absolutely NOO way that the mafia does not have a way to counter this ... other wise the town would just have double lynches, which is broken as hell. HOWEVER, playing the newbie card as the response is a TERRIBLE play. Positively screams scum trying to cover tracks.

FATE response later.

You're giving him a FoS because he said he was kinda newbie in response to not knowing that the Bus Driver is a random role?
Derp

[AGM]

Mega FoS: tanstalas

I actually thought of the EXACT same argument as you and agree 100% that we should not have town directed kills. There is absolutely NOO way that the mafia does not have a way to counter this ...

other wise the town would just have double lynches, which is broken as hell.

HOWEVER, playing the newbie card as the response is a TERRIBLE play. Positively screams scum trying to cover tracks.

FATE response later.

So, you agree with me, but yet you FoS me, actually "MEGA" FoS me Why wouldn't you just give me the HoS?

I was mentioning my inexperience for NOT knowing all the roles, and similar roles. If you read Switz comment he mentioned that the Bus Driver is a random role to just pluck out of the air for discussion. The reason I said I was new was because I was trying to give an example as to why a town directed vig kill was bad IMO. I picked a role I knew about as nacho asked me to explain my previous post. If I knew all the roles like the back of my hand which could negate the kill I would have listed them as well.

Also something about how you worded the above bolded doesn't sit right with me.. Probably the fact you said "the town" rather than "otherwise we would have double lynches" - I'm probably reading too much into your post, or it was a slip. Either way I like my vote where it stands now, however I am going to give you:

HoS: Pikachu

OMGUS, no doubt

[AGM]

@Fate - I have no reason to think OMG YOU ARE OBVTOWN like everybody else does. Especially when this is a SELF-DECLARATION supported by people like Nacho, who loves one liners and not explaining himself and a dude I think is scum.

Soo the only reason I would townvote you right now is because I think you would make a good shot, like you say here:

I'm promising a huge 28 player game that I'll use it in a pro-town matter though. My reputation is at stake, and I won't fail to deliver.

Which is bullshit, because if you are scum and you pull it off, people aren't going to blame you afterwards and say, "OMG U SUCK AS TOWN ... AS SCUM." They'll say, "good play." Not to mention it's not hard to spin a shot on slightly scummy town player as a protown play (while still avoiding shooting scum).

Also, for meta, you don't need to read scumgame. You just cross-reference town game with whether or not you think the player is capable enough to take advantage of that town meta as scum. Relevant facts
-You usually come under fire at some point
-Self-declaring as town is something might do
-Possible scum play is, get the shot by being loud and self-declaring yourself as town, then not shoot scum, people hate you but who cares you stole the shot from town and were probably going to get lynched anyway so oh well.

Again, this doesn't prove you are scum and it isn't even the LIKELY SCENARIO. It is just POSSIBLE. And given that I have no OTHER reason to vote for you as town, why would I?

BUT HEY, WE'RE JUST ONE VOTE. IF YOU GET THE GUN ANYWAY AND SHOOT SCUM, THEN FINE YOU'RE RIGHT AND I'M WRONG.

tl;dr

I have no reason to believe you are town.

´
Even if he's scum, giving him the Vig Kill will probably do more good than bad, tbh, we can just lynch him if he, "by mistake" kills someone else, and well, if he kills scum to be less suspicious, I don't believe that would work, considering its a very risky move

On second thought, I'l go with a

HoS: Moongoose

, considering he's been warned about his wagoning, he said he was sorry and that he just voted because he thought everyone else was right, and then

he did it again

QFT.

TBQH, my seth vote was more to see who would jump on the bandwagon than anything. Mongoose came out looking the worst for his response to my vote, for reasons SGRaaize beat me to (lol @ people voting someone for the same thing they just did <_<). Gandalf is neutral, MPR comes across as overeager town imo. Also relatively certain SGRaaize is town (though not quite certain enough to feel willing to dole out a townvote yet).

Unlynchvote; Lynch Vote: Mongoose

Tanstalas gives me bad vibes, too. I'm just not sure I buy his apparent confidence that there's a anti-town bus driver stemming from being new rather than from being

aware

that there's an anti-town bus driver. However, Furry's most recent post is probably on the mark and there are certainly bigger fish to fry right now.

FOS: Tanstalas

@Furry: Why is MPR a good lynch?

Thank you

On second thought, I'l go with a

HoS: Moongoose

, considering he's been warned about his wagoning, he said he was sorry and that he just voted because he thought everyone else was right, and then

he did it again

QFT.

TBQH, my seth vote was more to see who would jump on the bandwagon than anything. Mongoose came out looking the worst for his response to my vote, for reasons SGRaaize beat me to (lol @ people voting someone for the same thing they just did <_<). Gandalf is neutral, MPR comes across as overeager town imo. Also relatively certain SGRaaize is town (though not quite certain enough to feel willing to dole out a townvote yet).

Unlynchvote; Lynch Vote: Mongoose

Tanstalas gives me bad vibes, too. I'm just not sure I buy his apparent confidence that there's a anti-town bus driver stemming from being new rather than from being

aware

that there's an anti-town bus driver. However, Furry's most recent post is probably on the mark and there are certainly bigger fish to fry right now.

FOS: Tanstalas

@Furry: Why is MPR a good lynch?

You guys make me laugh. You and Furry both.

Stop beating the "OMG if there is a mafia bus driver he must be scum" horse. I already said that was the one of the few roles I knew of that could interfere with the smash ball kill

Seriously, I'm glad now I don't know about other roles as if I had mentioned them and there turned out to be one of those roles that the mafia had I'd be seriously screwed

I never even knew of a role called a "redirector" before you mentioned it Furry, so I guess by your logic - if there turns out to be a redirector and he is mafia then that must mean you are scum? See how stupid that logic is?

However, all this might be good, maybe if I get enough suspicion on me I will be investigated and then you will see that I am pro-town.

Note to all - don't mention what roles mafia may have, because if you do, and it turns out there is one then Furry, Zaziesurio and others with that mentality will probably BW you

Even if you got investigated, no investigator would admit that he found you Pro-Town, and if he did, you would be obviously a scum target for the next night.
So yeah, either that was a bad bluff to try to make you look as if you don't care, or you're kinda new at this

FoS: Tantalas

[AGM]

ARHGHHHHHRUGHREUWAIRUGHspojdask;lqwresdoksc.

FINE.

MY EXPECTATIONS ARE HIGH. THIS MOVE HAD BETTER NOT MAKE ME DISSAPOINT.

Town Vote: Fate

Pretty much, as I said before, if Fate fails to kill scum and then stays alive for quite some time, I'm gonna try to vote him off as quickly as possible

3. Smash Ball. Players with a Smash Ball get a Night Kill. If you get a Night Kill,you can use it on anyone but themself. Players with the Smash Ball must use the Final Smash: [Insert Username] command. It is guaranteed to succeed regardless of when you send it in, who you want to kill, what alignment they're part of, etc.

someone read the rule. the smash ball kill is guaranteed to succeed. i really don't think the kill can be redirected, otherwise a scum redirector means another night kill for the scum. maybe someone can ask the mod to clarify it.

i disagree with the second lynch things, it ruin the propose of kingmaking fate.

still haven't decided the lynch vote.

Yeah, I was also fairly sure the Smashball couldn't be redirected, but, the rules are unclear

Unless there is a mafia bus driver.

People keep missing the forest for the trees, or is it the other way around, I dont remember. My point is, him bringing up a bus driver messing things up on its own is not suspicious untill you look at it closer. He says that a driver will use it to make the SB user kill a town player over their intented target if we lay out a necessary claim, this assumes that the bus driver is scum. Not that we have a bus driver. I would fully expect either a driver or redirector to be in this game, tans is expecting one that is anti-town. Huge difference. If an anti-town driver ever shows up, tans is probably scum. If not, this is all a null to very slight town tell.

And:

Because what he is saying we do gives the scum influence over the vig kill regardless of whos hands it ends up in. People will already be held responsable enough for their kill to prevent random shootings, but what he suggests takes the power away from who the town is calling town and giving it to a group that has scum in it influencing the choice.

Sorry for being dumb, Furry, but tell me something
Do you believe in the existance of a Scum Redirector or Bus Driver?
If so, why are you trying to lynch MPR?

[Furry]

Sorry for being dumb, Furry, but tell me something
Do you believe in the existance of a Scum Redirector or Bus Driver?
If so, why are you trying to lynch MPR?

I have no reason to believe in one. If I thought there was one people would know, im not that big of a fan of subtelty when it comes to getting things done.

Due to that im still figuring out which of the three I mentioned needs to be lynched. Currently MPR hold that esteemed honor.

[tanstalas]

@SGR - Nice read, I will reply to the two parts that concern me:

How is that HoS an OMGUS? I thought OMGUS was reserved for
A)A vote, not a HoS
B)A vote with absolutely no reason for the vote, I gave reasoning for the HoS

Also, for the investigation thing, we have no idea what roles are in this game, with 28 people there is a chance that there may be town-masons in the game and a cop may be in with that group, if so, he can advise that group that I am XXXXX and pro-town, which would mean that scum wouldn't target me as I haven't been "verified" town in public.

As far as the "scum" taking me out, you are assuming that I do not have any night power to prevent myself from being NK'd or that I may also be protected.

I know I have thrown a lot of "if" scenerios out there, however I am trying to encourage as much conversation as I can so we can get down to scumhunting by looking for slips and scum-tells.

[tanstalas]

@ Mod

- Can you clarify the rule about the smash ball, can it in ANY way be manipulated by anyone else in the game that is NOT the person who has the power of it?

There - depending on the mod response we can either dismiss my bus driver scenario or if mod says it can but doesn't tell us what roles may affect it I will be very wary and probably retract my town vote.

[SGRaaize]

@SGR - Nice read, I will reply to the two parts that concern me:

How is that HoS an OMGUS? I thought OMGUS was reserved for
A)A vote, not a HoS

It really doesn't matter, what matters is that you are suspecting him directly because he's suspecting you

B)A vote with absolutely no reason for the vote, I gave reasoning for the HoS

Your reason for HoSing him was even lamer than his reason to HoS you

Also, for the investigation thing, we have no idea what roles are in this game, with 28 people there is a chance that there may be town-masons in the game and a cop may be in with that group, if so, he can advise that group that I am XXXXX and pro-town, which would mean that scum wouldn't target me as I haven't been "verified" town in public.

A mason with a cop in it? Jesus Christ, you really like going with improbable setups, don't you?

As far as the "scum" taking me out, you are assuming that I do not have any night power to prevent myself from being NK'd or that I may also be protected.

Why would you imply that? That'l only make the Mafia more curious, assuming you're not Mafia, of course

I know I have thrown a lot of "if" scenerios out there, however I am trying to encourage as much conversation as I can so we can get down to scumhunting by looking for slips and scum-tells.

[/quote]

You're just creating pointless discussions, something Mafia likes to do a lot to stall the game

[SGRaaize]

Sorry for being dumb, Furry, but tell me something
Do you believe in the existance of a Scum Redirector or Bus Driver?
If so, why are you trying to lynch MPR?

I have no reason to believe in one. If I thought there was one people would know, im not that big of a fan of subtelty when it comes to getting things done.

Due to that im still figuring out which of the three I mentioned needs to be lynched. Currently MPR hold that esteemed honor.

But MPR was the one to suggest the idea of Night Lynch, and you seem to agree that it would be very improbable for them to be able to use that idea against us
So, you just disagree with the idea? Or is there another reason why you vote MPR?

[manho]

I self-townvoted as a gambit to end RVS early and generate discussion.

It's not harming anybody now and I'm too lazy to un-townvote so I'll keep it where it is.

it is really scummy. i don't believe in any RVS-ending gambit. and after re-reading the original post, i really don't think it was an intentional gambit, so diddin is lying and should be lynched.

[Kocc42]

Could someone explain the MPR wagon? Cause I thought that it was just a joke, but some people have stated that MPR is scummy.

[Pikachu]

[FRIEND]

I also would like to hear why MPR is scummy, haven't really seen that yet.

About diddin: I don't find the idea of a self townvote necessarily scummy - anti-town, yes, but not scummy. However, I think the way diddin did it was scummy - he played it off as a "gambit" when the vote and the subsequent posts sounded pretty serious to me. It's like when people called him out for the self-vote he called it a "gambit" to cover it up and take off suspicion ("don't worry guys I was just trying to end RVS! That's not scummy!"). Additionally, I find his case on kirbyoshi to be a HUGE stretch (as others have pointed out). Not sure if I want to change our vote at this juncture but IGMEO diddin.

[Nero Cain]

town vote: Fate

We see no scum in MPR.

[SocioPath]

I'd like for my votee to be posting more.
/disappoint

[diddin]

What's the point of a gambit if you're not serious about it? I certainly generated discussion by self-townvoting, which meant I met my goal of ending RVS. I think had I not been so serious about it people would dismiss it as random RVS behavior.

[Framm 18]

I need to reread through this again, but I would still like to hear more from BunnyLover especially about his original reason for voting for MPR. I will hopefully post something more useful in a little while.

[Bunnylover]

Framm 18, its pretty much that I was fooled the last game I played in with friends so I understood why Fate hated him.
It was pretty much an RVS vote.

[Zaziesurio]

A mason with a cop in it? Jesus Christ, you really like going with improbable setups, don't you?

I've been cop neighboured with mafia traitor before (Avatar Mafia, for those interested in looking it up). For some reason the mod didn't predict that my neighbour would of course be the first person I scanned.

/off topic

I'm down with a diddin lynch, but I want to hear more from this Mongoose fellow.

[Kocc42]

I'm not seeing how diddin's selftownvoting was any different from what Fate is doing.

[SGRaaize]

I'm not seeing how diddin's selftownvoting was any different from what Fate is doing.

The difference is that he said everyone should do it themselves
Meaning, everyone should self-vote
Meaning, everyone should give the edge to the scum