Mini 1005: Mafiaphobes! (Game over)

[xvart]

Yes, I wouldn't automatically assume there was a scum in the group either; I just wanted to know if you could parse any reads from the way people participated in that particular part of the discussion.

xvart.

[Oso]

Not really.

I don't know diddin's experience with mafia. Going by his join date here on mafiascum I'm assuming he has a basic understanding of how mafia works but in the night talk, and here in the thread I get the impression he still might not be completely comfortable with the game yet. Don't want to give anyone a newbie card to play but for myself, I have a hard time distinguishing between players that are giving scum reads because they are scum or because they aren't quite comfortable with the game of mafia yet.

That being said, I believe his claim because it does fall right into line with I have seen (and used to do myself) with someone who is familiar but inexperienced with mafia that has a town power role.

Poirot is slightly different but it really has nothing to do with the way Poirot has played (other than what I said about him in my wagon analysis of yesterday's lynch) but with friend before he replaced out. Still can't put my finger on it though so I've pretty much dismissed it but since the neighbor mechanic is out can someone do me a favor and look at friend and his interplay between myself/him and diddin and see if you get any impression at all that he was trying to start shit between diddin and me? Or buddy up to one of us at the expense of of the other?

I'm going to guess that you probably don't and I can dismiss that as being overly paranoid.

[Sotty7]

Sotty? Can you confirm or deny anything in diddin's claim?

Just skimming I noticed the claim and I can't confirm anything diddin said. Gonna read what I missed while I think over this claim. Gut says "JK neighbor" isn't very normal.

[Aranneas]

*facepalms*

Of course. I didn't think to go that far back. Digging deeper...

However, I didn't find much. Oso, is this what you were thinking of?

I see what you're getting at, I suppose. While I don't think not answering the questions is scummy, I think I can see why he does.

What do you think about diddin, Oso?

[Oso]

Yeah, that was trigger. But like I stated, I am pretty paranoid about the whole neighbors mechanic so I've probably over thought the whole thing by this point.

[diddin]

If I were scum, what benefit would I have from claiming a provable power role? I may very well be the only protective role in the game. I would be safer claiming VT if I were scum since the flip of another protective role could possibly lead to my lynching.

[Sotty7]

Oso

, just to clarify here, you no longer find Tazaro's hammer scummy?

And another. Yes, I said vezo was a weak player in this game. That's why he's easy to use by scum to divert attention.

So you don't think vezo is scum in the least?

How should I know?; his game play is VI.

This isn't a very good answer. What do you normally do with VI's then?

= = = = = =

Ok yeah I saw where he missed where KageLord was going to hammer, the hammerpost still looks like an attempt to buy town cred.

I don't understand this line of thought. Say Tazaro is scum, why would he try and buy town cred for hammering a townie? That doesn't add up. Unless you are claiming that hammering to prevent a no lynch is where he is buying the town cred. The fact is that he still hammered a townie, there is little to no town cred to claim here. The point is weak.

= = = = = =

If Tazaro continues to defend vezokpiraka in the magnitude he's doing it, depending on vezokpiraka's flip, it is really going to bite him in the back later on. The main defense Tazaro uses on vezokpiraka is playing the meta and VI card for him and I don't buy the defense, especially when another person is doing it for them. Further establishing the potential connection between both of them is that Tazaro is hardcore defending vezokpiraka. Take notes here as if vezokpiraka flips scum, Tazaro is probably scum as well (Tazaro is still possible scum even if a vezokpiraka town flip happens, since he is scummy independent of vezokpiraka's alignment).

What is scummy about Tazaro independent of vezo?

= = = = = =

Wait a minute, the "neighbour" thing is believable, but the "town jailkeeper" isn't necessarily true.
And I'm willing to bet the "neighbor" thing is used by the mod because at least one of the three neighbors is scum. Or else you could be called masons that may or may not have power roles.

OR the mod put three townies as neighbors to have them doubt each other and lessen the power of giving the town a direct masonary. Basically, it comes down to out guessing the mod and I don't want it all to come down to that.

I have played as a neighbor once before in this game. Basically what happened is that the mod threw in two pairs of neighbors, one pair was made up of two townies (myself and imaginality) and the other was one townie and one scum. The scum LOVED the fact there was neighbors because it did nothing but cause confusion in the town.

The best test for a neighborhood is asking the other neighbors what they think of each other. I managed to read imaginality as town in that game because there is a certain frankness about night talk and I just got a strong read off him. I would like diddin's other neighbors to claim their reads of him ASAP.

One thing that does give me pause for this claim is the way Humble and Oso went at each other yesterday. Seems out of place really for a neighborhood unless there was no trust at all. This is all kinda WIFOMy because I don't see scumdiddin outing his whole hypo scum team like that.

So I want to know specifically what the neighbors think of diddin. Was the JK role discussed in thread at all.

Vote stays for now.

[Sotty7]

If I were scum, what benefit would I have from claiming a provable power role? I may very well be the only protective role in the game. I would be safer claiming VT if I were scum since the flip of another protective role could possibly lead to my lynching.

How are you provable?

[diddin]

If I were scum, what benefit would I have from claiming a provable power role? I may very well be the only protective role in the game. I would be safer claiming VT if I were scum since the flip of another protective role could possibly lead to my lynching.

How are you provable?

If we lynch you and you flip scum, I'm essentially clear.

Considering I doubt there are two protective roles in a mini normal, another protective role flips, and I'm in trouble. Why would I take that risk?

[Oso]

Oso, just to clarify here, you no longer find Tazaro's hammer scummy?

No, I don't. On reflection, I realized that the negative I got out of it was based on something that had nothing to do with the game. I thought it was rude (apologies to Tazaro) mainly because that was pretty much his first game post. His response showed me that he missed the part where KG said he would hammer before deadline so I nulled out the read. Scum, I would think, would go out of their way to avoid being the hammer on a townie unless they were very secure that it wouldn't come back to haunt them and being a new replacement into the game, Tazaro has a perfect opportunity to lay low that close to deadline and put off participating until the start of the Day 2 and avoid the issue altogether.

As to Diddin, from the nighttalk, I get nothing that says he is anything other than what he says he is. While outing the neighbor mechanic was discussed in regards to RCs, no one claimed or alluded to a role of any kind in any of the talk.

I'm going to accept his RC for the moment. Several reasons, mainly because it does fit in with no NK last night. It's muddled though because it's impossible to tell if his action protected you or prevented you and there is no way he or anyone else in the thread, other than scum, can say for certain if his action prevented a kill on you or prevented you from doing something. And the fact that there is no sort of counter (yet anyway) to his role which is basically a Doctor on steroids makes is more than likely he is telling the truth.

And you hit it on the head, there is zero amount of trust in the neighbors night thread but alot of that can be logged off to Poirot not having access/limited access during the night and we were minus the third neighbor but I got a generally positive feeling from diddin. He didn't seem to be cadging or evasive or manipulative in anything we talked about. Didn't try to hatch any plots is what I'm saying.

The only thing that struck me as off is that he asked if we should hide our neighbor status if forced to RC. But seeing as how we are a group, even if unconfirmed with each other, not so much off that it worries me too much. The 'semi-informed minority' is a cool thing and it's natural to want to conceal that where possible.

[Aranneas]

Not doctor on steroids. Doctor+roleblocker. There are three possibilities if we accept his claim and assume an nk was attempted: Sotty was targetted for nk; Sotty was the mafia hitman; or the nk did not involve Sotty at all and someone else caused it to be stopped.

[Aranneas]

Also does anyone know when Poirot's evening is?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

What is scummy about Tazaro independent of vezo?

Obvious I hated Tazaro's hammer as he just came by and said "Oh, here's the hammer even thought I know the person is probably going to flip town.". Even if it's close to the deadline, a person who genuinely thought he was scummy should have hammered, not a person who has no opinion on anyone's alignment.

His justification for his hammer on quadz08 is very weak. He tries to use static to determind that it will most likely be a mislynch, which is a given since after all, Mafia is a game of the uninformed majority trying to get rid of the informed majority. However, when it comes to scum hunting, static and evidence supporting scummy behavior do not mix with each other. Him treating it as an informational lynch isn't a much better reason either as every lynch we should attempt to hit scum and we cannot afford to lynch someone purely for information.

He suggested that since mislynches usually happen Day 1, we should think that we got a mislynch coming. I really dislike this mentality. Town should never treat Day 1 as a probable mislynch Day, they should put forth all efforts toward finding scums on that day just like in later days, less information or not.

Tazaro's play is scummy independent of vezokpiraka's alignment. He'll look a lot worse if vezokpiraka flips scum.

[Humble Poirot]

I've caught up until the moment I posted from my cell and have made 2 posts about it (one dedicated to my new

It's a mess right now so I'll probably just wrap it up and go to sleep leaving the rest of page 21/22 for tomorrow and post what I have as tidily as I can.

[Aranneas]

I've caught up until the moment I posted from my cell and have made 2 posts about it (one dedicated to my new.

Damnit, now I won't sleep tonight for excitement. I'm intrigued to find out what the rest of that sentence was.

Oh and also two posts. Those would be awesome.

[Humble Poirot]

EBWOP: I meant to say new friend in a sarcastic manner, then erased it and wrote enemy, then erased it and wrote nemesis, then tried to remember of a nemesis of Poirot but couldn't find any. Then I forgot to complete it.

I finally gave up sleeping the hours I should and I'm reading 21-22 (but without developing much)

I'll tidy up the posts in a while and you'll be able to enjoy them forever.

Don't rush to answer. Think first. Investigate first. Then reply.

[Humble Poirot]

I saw diddin's claim and this are my notes:

After posting in the neighbour chat I thought this:

The plan -> wait until the absolute last minute before posting in the neighbor chat so that scum would not be able to act upon it.

I stated that I thought there was a scum amongs the 3 of us because that would be a perfect protection against a scumkill. The remaining players would go at each other.

I started a super detailed excel spreadsheet about each vote and it's reasons but failed to continue after page 2.

I ended up doing just a vote detail of everyone to have the basic skeleton of what had happened. I didn't make much of it either.

ChibiSanNub/sotty7:

xvart | vezok, diddin

diddin:

friend, unvote, Tasky, unvote, Vezok, unvote, SSBF, Quadz.

friend/Humble:

SSBF, diddin, vezok | Quadz

jay:

friend, (later voted humble/friend again in the famous post)

Kagelord:

q21, vezok.

Oso:

Tasky, revote Tasky, unvote, Kagelord, quadz.

q21:

q21, Kagelord, unvote, quadz.

quadz:

ChibiSanNub, unvote, vezok, SSBF,

SSBF:

diddin, Tasky, unvote, vezok.

Tasky/Tazaro:

Friend, Vezok | quadz

Vezok:

Tasky, unvote, quadz.

From the top of my head.
Jay is still nothing.
Kagelord and sotty have given reasons for the vezok lynch.
Oso, although I've have plenty of disagreements with him. Seems to be trying to analyze things.
---------------------------------
Then I went away and just forgot about it really, knowing I that I was probably safe due to the mafia-town-town protection I believed to be set up.

Now, I've skimmed a bit and I'm catching up:

- Vezok has been scummy in every way.
- The amount of anti-town players this game is heart-breaking.
- We're losing grasp of the game. That's my feeling. The amount of fluff being posted after Tazaro's incorporation to the game is absurd.
EDIT AFTER COMPLETING THE READ: We might be able to overcome it if we don't jump to conclusions every five seconds.

The whole deal of SSBF pushing hard for xvart's response in case quadz flipped town made me uneasy.

I consider xvart as one of my most town players. Why? Because not only I have evidence that he scumhunts but I see also a commitment that puts him in the spotlight and he doesn't run away from it for fear of persecution. His motive was conviction and has always looked sincere.

That's why SSBF's attitude troubled me. Scum would know quadz flip would not be mafia. That way, they could try to trap xvart based on that knowledge. Anyway, SSBF doesn't do that and more and more, I get the feeling that, although particular, his formatted posts and queries are really looking for something.

Ninja'd by xvart.
Post after I saw xvart's question: I feel very uncomfortable about Poirot. I've tried to reexamine stuff and he seems to be dangerous if he's scum. He seems to be intelligent, but this makes me more suspicious about him

Yeah. The same thing I feel about Oso. Don't you feel the same way about him or am I the only seemingly smart person around? Also, have you read the game yet?

joining the attack against quadz who played rather newbishly.

Oh... so quadz played newbishly but you didn't say (or didn't care about it) so earlier? You just hammered without caring about it?

And xvart, it was either you or Poirot who said that quadz was obvscum; you guys went over the cliff on that one.

No. Clearly you haven't read the game. It was xvart and, so what? He stated he was sure and wasn't.... so? What's the follow up, if any?

Yeah, and you thought he was scum, eh. Mislynches almost always happen on day one, and people should think that they probably have the wrong guy on the noose on day one. But no nightkill? This deprives us of information about the mafia's nightkill strategy. We who survive need to be organized but not pounce on a player like quadz, but pounce on a player who's scumminess can't be just bad gameplay but is actually from bona fide scum tells.

^^ FLUFF ALERT. FLUFF ALERT.

Tazaro, you said NOTHING.

And then you go and keep spamming.

xvart, I wouldn't suggest pouncing on anyone. We still have to watch people.

oh my god... You've replaced a game, hammered someone and now on day 2 say we have to watch people?

Read the Game!!! Play THE GAME!!!

I have to see how Poirot does things later,

What about the things friend/Poirot did so far?

This was followed by more fluff that doesn't need to be posted.

Again, you keep multiposting. STOP IT. PLEASE. I BEG YOU. Use the damn preview button.

Effectively, my scum list is nilch. I have to read more and discard gut feelings. And sleep before doing any of that.

Then stop spamming and read the game.

---------------------
diddin 427: I understand you wanting to analyze me again and I understand the concern but I've never seen how a replacement could be indicative of alignment. I've seen scum and town replace for various non-game reasons.
---------------------
I like this post very much: Nice bandwaggon analysis. I didn't bother to look that much at the waggon on day 1 because I thought that quadz would flip scum but I did note vezok's absurd call that quadz was obvscum later and his lack of anything for the vote. Vezok is the scummiest player I've seen for a while. The worst thing being, that he seems to relish the thought of playing as scummily as possible.

I need to think over what you say. All in all, I think that xvart's and mine's are the most town-ish votes of that waggon. Oso's vote came after a Kagelord disagreement and that change of mind made me think highly of him.
-------------------------
Oso's 1,2,3... of this post are unnecesary in my opinion.

No kill. Let's enjoy. No use speculating. At least, not for town.
-------------------------

I am even more unsure now about vezok though. A lot of this stuff against him could be blamed on just bad (if you don't want to give me that, then at least awkward) town play. I am just sort of unwilling to give him that free ride though since his play could just be somewhat bad scum play as well. If he doesn't show improvement here as far as scumhunting efforts go, I would still be willing to try for his lynch D2.

Dude. Why would you be much more unsure about vezok? You were an important pusher of his lynch yesterday and now you are acting all shy about it.

A doc should NEVER reveal himself but in Mass Claim. Period.

What just happened?
It doesn't make sense. What is happening?

You're enjoying this, aren't you? What's the purpose of this? Keep in anti town character in hopes that people won't lynch you for being just too scummy?

Tazaro 433, 434, 435 triple post.
So? What information did you gain?
434 is actually a good question, too bad you had to waste 2 posts to ask it, specially when the second post only makes it harder to be understood.

I hope nobody despises my triple posts> I can stop if asked.

Please. Please, do.
Also, you voted diddin, what can you tell us about his play on day 1?

I keep procrastinating with the reading. And I'm not going to make a list of official suspects unless those suspects are on that list for more than gut feeling. My suspect list is diddin, ?, ?. My people to look out for are everyone, my people who are probably town are Oso and Sotty.

If you haven't read the game yet... Why are you posting so much?

Imagine if Sherlock Holmes tried to catch up a suspect with just the name of the client that brought up the case.

Client A: Hi Mr.Holmes, I'm Dave Mulbarry, A strange thing happened to me that needs your skills.
Sherlock: Oh!!! Ms. Mulbarry did it! With the Candle stick, in the kitchen!
Client A (confused): I'm single.
Sherlock: Ohhhh... Never mind then. Go on...

443: More fluff from Tazaro makes me nervous. I thought Tasky was town. He looked eager to find scum even though he used lame techniques. But you, you look like you never stop to think about anything.

This game will not judge you by how quick you answer but it WILL judge the content. If it were just for your play, you'd be up on my scum-list right now for extra spam and mildness. You talk but do not do.
-------------------------

The Humble reread is coming, I have Band Camp today and WILL do it this evening. Trust me on this one. The reason I'm rereading Humble is my only read on him in the past was town, but that read wasn't a very strong one. I like to have better reads D2 than D1.

Seriously?
Are you kidding me?
You are now trying to deflect the wagon from you to Hubmle?
Half of the people here consider him town. I don't want him lynched.

This isn't working today diddin.

Vote diddin

Are YOU kidding us? How did he deflect a waggon on me? Why aren't you deflecting a waggon on him? You don't want me lynched because half of the people think I'm town? So what? Do you think i'm town? Why?
----------------------
Kage votes vezok and all is back to it's place.

Now, diddin... You vote vezo in 448 but... weren't you going to reread me in ISO first?
-----------------------

diddin and KageLord, engaged in tag-teaming vezo, a weak player? I believe it.

Have you EVEN READ THE GAME? You have no concerns about vezok's unexplained posts and votes? You disagree with Kagelord's vote and reasoning? If so... explain how, where and why!!!

That's just another fluff post that doesn't face any issue but appeals of emotion that would suggest Kagelord-Diddin scumteam and Vezok-town without explaining why.

I'd like to quote Penn & Teller now...

quick reread of Humble reinforced my townread. I can't find a single thing in his posts that's blatantly scummy.

tazaro, vezo has been scummy all game and you can't deny it. Saying "we lynched obv scum" when he was only voting quadz to help the wagon and he's never mentioned me or SSBF, but he thinks we're obvious scum too. Not to mention this last vote is a thinly-disguised wagonvote where he blatantly lies saying I'm trying to deflect attention to Humble.

Diddin. You're right on the 2nd paragraph but... The first one... Seems a bit poor. As if you just wanted to eliminate the issue.

And another. Yes, I said vezo was a weak player in this game. That's why he's easy to use by scum to divert attention.

What makes him weak town and not scum? I'd like to know because all I'm seeing he is confortable with the situation.

This is something I'm trying to keep an eye on, who is confortable when town is fucking up. Almost always: Scum.
----------------------------

You say I am a weak player.
Scum always try to force a mislynch on me.
If diddin flips town tazaro should be the next to go.

Another bullshit make-no-sense-at-all post from scummy-guy. Appeal to emotion and no explanation for a lynch candidate.

Also, you make no mention about the whole quadz is obvscum when he was hammered when you had never mentioned him before.

That makes me think you're scum trying to disguise yourself as if you had no real knowledge about quadz alignment. If you've lasted this much playing like this, maybe you're smarter than I thought you were.
----------------------------

Look at vezo's meta from games past. I'm just saying...

Saying what? That vezok is town? Why? Point examples as town and scum and how is his play this game indicative of the former.

I.E, vezo is VI.

What about you? Again, What gives you the impression Vezok is VI and not scum? Even if he was, why not lynch him yesterday instead of quadz who was just "an information lynch" according to you? Who is scum if vezok isn't? Why are they scum and not VI's?

Triple Post: Don't mean to offend vezo at all.

I'm starting to think you do this triple post thing on purpose. look at the damned timestamps.
-----------------------------
Hi Aran.
Again, I don't think speculating about town PRs that saved the night is healthy. Let's stop that.

Aran, you're fosing diddin for his first post of the current day. Have you read day 1? Why not? You act as if it didn't exist. What about Jay's actions?
----------------------------

quadz08 could have been an information lynch, but I really don't see anybody mentioning him anymore. I couldn't expect what people were going to say, but just like other lynches that happen so early in a game, it seemed to be good to get it done with.

It looks like you're changing your excuses fast. Read your own ISO and tell me if you've been consistent regarding that hammer.
----------------------------
-LONG ANSWER TO Aran follows this post.
----------------------------

And another. Yes, I said vezo was a weak player in this game. That's why he's easy to use by scum to divert attention.

So you don't think vezo is scum in the least?

How should I know?; his game play is VI.

Is he the only one? Who must we lynch? Why? Define his playstyle and why it's VI.
----------------------------

I like everything about the quadz wagon except for the Tazaro hammer. It just looked like a big HEY LOOK AT ME post and it seems like he was trying to buy towncred by hammering even when KageLord was committed to the hammer already. Overall I don't have much else to say about the quadz wagon.

Oh, so Vezok's vote was nice and dandy then?
----------------------------

Ok yeah I saw where he missed where KageLord was going to hammer, the hammerpost still looks like an attempt to buy town cred.

How would he win town cred (if he was scum) by hammering town?
---------------------------

Vezo lynch is looking better and better because tazaro's insistence vezo is just a VI could be a potential scumlink.

I assume you've never played with vezo before.

Did you? What do you gain from that experience?
---------------------------

I hope you have good insight about diddin, Humble Poirot. He's rubbing me the wrong way.

Forgive the outburst but... What the fuck is this? If he is rubbing you the wrong way then explain to others why he is.

Also, didn't you say I was smart scum or something? Are you asking ME to lay out a case for you?
--------------------------

If Tazaro continues to defend vezokpiraka in the magnitude he's doing it, depending on vezokpiraka's flip, it is really going to bite him in the back later on.

This is extremely mild considering the emphasis you put earlier when you said "Defending is a scumtell". Anyway, what I think is that there's no reason for Tasky/tazano to be so adamant about the defending a possible VI whose alignment he is not confident about. The worst part being, Tazaro does not explain anything although he does post as if he wanted to break a record.

[Humble Poirot]

Read it closely Aranneas.

On the quote from my predecessor that's getting tossed around a bit: it's been bugging me as well, I will say that much.

Bugging you how?

He obviously got a very strong read out of something the man put up.

Did he now? What EXACTLY gives you the impression he had a strong read against friend/me. He

hardclaimed

a role and asked for protection. He apparently claimed a day actioning role with knowledge of scum. He said 100 %.

If you're not claiming anything it's because you do not possess such certainty. Therefore, the whole thing is moot.

I've been digging through his ISO and I think I may know what it is, though whether or not I share his opinion is still in question

Funny. Because Jay's wasn't an opinion. It was a borderline (bullshit) claim.

leaning towards yes, however, contingent on his responses to the following.

No, no no... Jay needed no responses from me. He said I was scum. Period.

You're pretending to carry a torch of suspicion when Jay never did such thing. He just CLAIMED that I was scum.

The possibility of a lyncher is starting to really form. Let's see what your reasons for "leaning towards yes" are...

q21

started mild and is getting into the game. I dislike his defense/attack on xvart, which appears to me as if he was accusing whoever questions his motives.

Lets analyse the responses to that self vote... 9 out of 11 players other than myself moved on without so much as a comment (maybe they laughed, maybe they didn't; I don't know, I don't have little cameras at everyone's computers to see if they're laughing). 2 out of eleven people called me out for it. Even if neither you not SSBF are scum, those numbers still prove that most townies paid it very little mind.

So... What's the relevance of this? What do you gain?

What do you think was gained by this statement? Perhaps it was simply a throwaway statement; perhaps there was an actual agenda behind it. I don't believe you have no opinion on the topic, however, especially since you're the one that called attention to it. The fact that whatever you may be thinking, you keep it back... I dunt liek sekerts.

I'm trying to read people by asking questions. I gain insight. What on earth do you mean by "agenda behind it"? It's hard to understand what's your point. Is it because I didn't reask him a question he didn't answer? If it's that, I just missed it like I miss so much of the questions people ignore (vezok is a great example, Tazaro is another). Even though I may forget things my posts are always useful to remember what I noted.

I call bull here. Has anyone actually clicked the link? What about that post smacks of 'lacking conviction'? I'm having trouble seeing it and am hoping someone could elaborate for me.

You call bull??? Ok. I'll just post quadz post again:

Ok, I've now done a re-read of the whole thread. woooooo! Dang, we spent a long time arguing about Tasky's questions. Ugh.

My number one suspect right now is SSBF. First and foremost is this:

Defending people is a scum tell, period.

This is part of his ISO #9. To me, what this statement boils down to is that if a player has a reasonable point saying that a player is not scum (or may not be scum, or whatever), he shouldn't bring it up if that person is thought to be scummy. That makes no sense to me. "Gee, I have this opinion that, if brought up, may keep us from lynching a townie. But that's a no-no! Only scum defend people!" I just don't see how forcing out opinions is pro-town in any way.

There is also this (found in his ISO #8):

Absolutely hate this. I see absolutely no purpose of that self-vote, especially since we're already getting something to work on in this game.

SSBF made a pretty big deal about what was clearly a jokey vote. Like someone (diddin, maybe?) said earlier, it seems like he's grasping at straws. Yes, we were in the serious stage. But come on, it's a game, dangit! Let a man make a dumb joke. It meant nothing and did no harm to scumhunting. Not worth the attention it's gotten.

I also have an eye on KageLord, xvart, and vezok, but nobody has really exhibited any huge scumtells that I've seen. SSBF seems to me the wisest D1 lynch, at this point.

A)He votes him for one phrase that SSBF "shouldn't" say.
b)He says SSBF is grasping at straws for taking a jokey vote seriously
C) He says he has his eye in more people (kagelord appears for the first time)
D) He calls SSBF the "wisest" lynch but doesn't say anything else.
Addendum: He didn't push SSBF later (claiming he was "waiting for more scumtelles to show up")
I hope that was elaborate enough.

Is it the fact that he voted for the guy? (sarcasm, for the tone reading impaired) Because that's about as much conviction as it's possible to convey in this game, short of an investigation claim.

You think you're being sarcastic? You're being purposely blind.

You think quadz showed equal or more conviction than xvart?

It's a mafia discussion that pertains directly to what's going on in the thread. You've stated an opinion based on your interpretation of apparent emotional context, but you haven't backed it up with anything. I would like to hear the deeper thought process behind this.

No. Seriously, No. Don't lie so much in one paragraph. You're the one who isn't backing up things and just throwing words around. Read my ISO with a clear head instead of looking for reasons to support what you say was jay's suspicion. I explained many times how and why quadz was mild.

Read the game. You haven't talked about anything related to it. It's plain that after Oso asked you about Jay's crazy accusation and dissapearance you only ISO'd me to see what you could say against me.

You're ignoring everything about quadz and xvart and vezok and everoyne that happened during day 1 because you don't know about it.

He doesn't stick to the known bandwagon and tries instead to dig into the motivation behind the post. This is normally a very good thing. Unfortunately, it doesn't come off sincere to me here. You imply (and explicitly state) scumminess without really telling us why. Now I use gut reads as much as the next guy, potentially more than some of the mafiaborgs you have around here; but when the man flips town, it does not end up reflecting well on you. You need to be prepared to either chin up and take the suspicion that follows, or explain further. I would greatly prefer the latter.

No. This is NOT happening. You're telling ME to avoid using gut reads? REad the game. Read about Oso and me. Read the game.

This is all fine from my perspective, especially in light of the diddin issues that came up later on which I've commented on (which I will update in a separate post, since this one looks hella long in preview). However, there is one slight problem: you never followed up on any of this. As town it's somewhat excusable; you simply found better reads and decided to stick with those.

Great! You CAN think for yourself. Tell me if at any time, you think I stopped scumhunting because who I wanted was getting lynched.

Personally I would try not leave such things aside until I acquired enough information that I was satisfied, but that may just be a playstyle difference, I don't know.

sure, although you do leave AN ENTIRE GAME aside to make this lame ISO attack.

You don't look like you knew the context of anything outside My ISO.

Vezok has my potential vote if I can't get a quadz lynch. So for all intents and purposes Vezok and Kagelord are tied. If someone chooses to vote, they can't claim it's because someone has got the lead or any other excuse.

Has anyone mentioned this before? If so, please speak up. You imply negative connotations for quadz's voting pattern, and in the next line of the same post say that you're prepared to do the exact same thing to ensure a lynch of someone you think is scummy.

No. No. No. You're getting on my nerves. I showed what was scummy about vezok and I showed was was scummy about quadz. They were second and first on my list and I tried to lynch the first. If I couldn't, I'd accept lynching the second

AS OPPOSED TO KAGELORD who at the time was tied and then first in the votecount but, of course, you wouldn't know anything about that since you didn't read anything but my ISO

.

This is one of the most blatant hypocritical contradictions I've seen and makes me more uncomfortable than anything else you've written. The problem continues below in a more in-depth discussion of Kage's reaction to the same.

No, this is one of your more farfetched lies to date and I'm really angry about it.

The only reasonable explanation I can find for such poor lies is that you're a desperate lyncher.

As scum OR town that post is a disgrace for the game.

To top it off, he continued to use this argument against quads right up until he gets lynched, and no-one called him on it (if I missed someone who did, I apologize). Is anyone getting good vibes off this in context?

yara, yara... you keep saying that I'm wrong without talking about why and where but, to give you credit, this time you realize THERE IS a context (which you don't care to read, surprisingly...)

This is all fine as a defense in normal circumstances; except for the fact that you're responding to what you see as an appeal to emotion with emotionally charged language. Will someone play a really fast game of word association with me? I say 'fanatic'. What are the first three words that pop into your head?

If you had planned to play the 'logic vs instinct' card, you're kind of circumventing your own argument here. On it's own I would just say you probably just got carried away with your argument and didn't think too much of it. In light of my suspicions above I'm less inclined to let it slide.

blah blah blah. You HAD to say something about it even though you're not to sure what to say. Actually, this shows that you wrote this post as you read my ISO, otherwise, you wouldn't have brought the whole point about gut earlier. Which shows you know squat about the game. Which shows that post wins the records for amount of lies in one post".

Congratulations!

Summary/conclusion: His manner of play makes me nervous from his opening post. He does make strong points and logical conclusions a good portion of the time, but I cant't help but be scratching my head at some of the apparent throwaway reads he puts in. Would reeeally like to hear from him on this, because if he is town he may be one of our biggest assets and I'd like to get this stuff out of the way asap.

Oh no you didn't. After throwing crap at me for every detail without caring about context or about making sense, not even having read the game... You come and say that I "throwaway my reads"? Where does that leave the rest of the players?

In five words:
I just can't believe it.

Nice Big Fos: Aran

[Humble Poirot]

I've skimmed 21-22 and will say a few things just so you know.

In any case, I will read more carefully and develop later on.

@Oso: I clearly explained that your case on KG and my case on quadz are nothing alike.
You attacked KG for not claiming to be sure about himself and the 6-minute thing. But KG did keep pressure on vezok which quadz didn't (amongs other things, but that is the only relation I could find).

My defense of vezo is justified by the attacks on vezo by diddin that are of the same bad character as the "direct contradiction" that q21 pointed out.

... What?

Do you think vezok is town? YES OR NO? Why?
Who is scum? Why?

Thank you very much.

As you know, I confirm We're neighbors (alignment not confirmed).

diddin, why didn't you try and push sotty today if you had a possible explanation for the no kill?

I believe his claim. Especially since Neighbour was spelled with a "u." The mod is Australian, I think.

UNVOTE: diddin

He can be neighboUr scUm, you know. Also, Oso confirmed it 4 minutes ago. You make no sense.

Would you folks feel comfortable summarizing the neighbour chat from last night for our benefit? Why/why not?

I'll post the entire thing if it's allowed. I meant to ask the mod about this but then went away.

MOD: Can we? We're not breaking any rules.

No, as I said in the QT, do not directly quote anything from the QT. Paraphrasing is of course fine.

In fact, I still need to give it a good read.

Wait a minute, the "neighbour" thing is believable, but the "town jailkeeper" isn't necessarily true.
And I'm willing to bet the "neighbor" thing is used by the mod because at least one of the three neighbors is scum. Or else you could be called masons that may or may not have power roles.

FoS: diddin

. I'm not sure, but you could be making up the sotty thing on the back of the no-nightkill that could have another explantion.

Couldn't you have thought about this EARLIER? Why the FOS?

I am going to re-iso the poirot and oso confrontation in light of this. I suggest others do the same.

Oh my God... Are you going to ISO me AGAIN? Will you read the game this time or that's still not worth your time?

Were the neighbors able to talk pre-game?

Yes. But nobody said much. I'll be more specific later. If I can, I'll just copy paste it.

I get the impression that it was pretty much agreed upon that someone in the neighborhood was scum. Is that correct?

It was my safe assumption and I declared my suspect was diddin within the chat.

If I were scum, what benefit would I have from claiming a provable power role?

Good point. One half-smart alternative I can find is that you were in a scumteam with sotty and nokilled to set the claim up but I think it might be a bit farfetched. Another that looks more likely is that you wanted to out a real doctor. I'm willing to trust the claim for the time being.

If I were scum, what benefit would I have from claiming a provable power role? I may very well be the only protective role in the game. I would be safer claiming VT if I were scum since the flip of another protective role could possibly lead to my lynching.

How are you provable?

If we lynch you and you flip scum, I'm essentially clear.

Seriously? That's what you meant by provable? I thought that you could prove yourself if he was a blocked PR.[/quote]

Considering I doubt there are two protective roles in a mini normal, another protective role flips, and I'm in trouble. Why would I take that risk?

Unless you wanted to out that role, no reason. As I said, I trust you for now.

-------------------------------
-------------------------------
Forgive the lack of tidyness. I'm usually tidy if I'm up to date.

Lame Summary:

Vezok is my lynch candidate for the reasons I've had all game and the reasons he keeps adding with every post. He is not trying to find scum but to lynch everyone but him. He is calling conspiracies and probably using the too anti-town to be scum excuse.

Aran is lying just too much for no reason.

SSBF has gained some town points lately.

Xvart is still strong town read.

Oso Diddin are still great questions. I was practically certain one of us HAD to be scum. I'm not sure now. I'm not willing to test diddin when there's much more scummy people around and he has claimed a VERY pro town role.

sotty, so far, I've seen town. He could've been protected. Need to read his ISO and see how he is connected to people (friends and foes)

Tazaro needs to stop spamming. I need to understand him.

KageLord still looks town to me. I need to make sure later I'm not just skimming him because I've made my mind or something. But he keeps acting town.

q21: I need to pay attention to him again but he has somehow gotten lost between all the crap that's been flying around.

I don't even know if I'm forgetting someone.

I'm not even aware of the votecount. I won't rush my vote.

I need to sleep.

Good night.

.............................Humble Poirot.............................

PS: If I offended someone in any way. This is just a game, I'm sorry. I try to not get irritated about games but it sometimes beats me momentarily.

PS2: Forgive the horrendous spelling mistakes.

[Aranneas]

Post to indicate I have read and understood what you've written. If I reply in depth right now it will look like a rage-filled ball of rage. This is not my intent. Will sleep on it and respond in morning.

[vezokpiraka]

This neighbour thing is weird. Jailkeeper is the single most easilly claims as scum reolblocker. I thing diddin is scum .

[KageLord]

Geez... a lot (admittedly some of it was fluff or pursuing questioning) has been said in the past 24 hours. I have read all of it up until now, but I will definitely need to read some of it again to actually get much out of it. Humble's posts here were actually did make me pretty sad about how the game has been going so far. And, without some of the harsher words, I found that many of his points here were the exact ones that I was thinking when I was initially reading these pages. Though he is clearly emotional about Aran, he does a good job of calling him out on some of his biggest BS. My thoughts on jay after his famous post (and a bit of info from the rest of you about possible roles) was that he was almost certainly a lyncher. As Aran entered, I was surprised by his not mentioning Friend/Humble and considered that I might have been wrong and he might have a different role. Clearly, Aran's recent posts about Humble have bolstered my original belief that he is a lyncher. If not for jay, one or two points of Aran's case and the whole neighbor situation may have made me spend a good deal of time investigating Humble, but as it is, he remains solid town in my book.

Now, on the topic of Tazaro, I actually consider him my second or third scummiest read at this point. The reasons I would give have already been said many times over. His refusal to even consider that vezok may be scum instead of just VI (an annoyingly hurtful term for someone, though I can sometimes understand its necessity), his "informational" hammer without having read the thread (he claims he just missed my saying I would hammer, but seems to also have missed other peoples' similar statements and my feelings toward vezok D1), and his sometimes apparent sheeping and possible attempt to buddy up to (one of) our lead scumhunter(s) would be the main ones.

As for diddin, I had been rethinking his position in my reads while reading some of the stronger points of the case against him, but for the moment I see no reason to disbelieve his claim.

Preview edit:

OMG... I want vezok lynch so bad it hurts.

@Everyone (other than vezok):

As a favor to me, would you say what you think of vezok's alignment and why? Also, please state whether you would be open to a vezok lynch for D2 or not.

[totallynotmafia]

Vote count 2.3

Oso (0)
Tazaro (1) Aranneas
KageLord (0)
Humble Poirot (0)
q21 (0)
Aranneas (0)
xvart (0)
diddin (4) Sotty7, vezokpiraka, xvart, q21
vezokpiraka (4) Oso, KageLord, diddin, Super Smash Bros. Fan
Sotty7 (0)
Super Smash Bros. Fan (0)

Not voting: Tazaro, Humble Poirot

With 11 alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch.

Deadline is August 13th, 10:30 AM (GMT + 10:00).

[vezokpiraka]

Should I claim now guys?

[Tazaro]

Should I claim now guys?

Fine with me. We'll see if they make you a distraction from diddin as a result of the claim, you are neck and neck with diddin, who as far as I know gave no sufficient explanation for why he targetted Sotty. I don't believe that Sotty being targetted by a jailkeeper because he's dangerous as scum is a good answer.