/in-vitational Game 8 - Nito City (over) after 1015

[Zachrulez]

COUNTER ATTACK!

Vote: Sotty7

[Zachrulez]

I don't see how either Sando or Jack are scummy from that exchange. Jack's rolefishing accusation doesn't really make sense to me, but I can't see a scum motivation for it either.

Porochaz and Sotty's votes on Jack look opportunistic to me.

[Zachrulez]

I'd also like to point out that Zach is lurking. Normally with a game only just opening I wouldn't go as far as calling someone on lurking, but he has posted in all this other games today but is avoiding this one. Zach's scum meta is to lurk, he hates playing scum and will only contribute to the thread if called upon. The thing is, he knows that I know this is his scum meta because I poke him about it all the time. SO I am feeling very WIFOM'ed right now.

Zach, where are you?

Just coming around to looking at this game, that's where.

[Zachrulez]

I could care less about who I'm thrilling really.

Anyway, after looking back through the sequence of events, I think Porochaz is more likely scum than Sotty.

Unvote: Vote Porochaz

[Zachrulez]

I don't really like the way he attacked your reasoning for your Jack vote as your reasoning was clearly the same as his.

He misreps you here.

Unvote, Vote: Jack

Not a good reason

Which is a good way to make you look bad except for the fact that right before the vote you posted this.

Jack, are you being serious?

And Poro's stated reason.

This is a ridiculous argument, Im not even sure Jack is being serious but

vote Jack

anyway, I do not see any rolefishing.

[Zachrulez]

I don't think there exists a game outside of C9 where I post about everyone and everything. Also I have had active scum games, granted they are not common. I have also had less active town games, granted they are also not common.

Anyway you seem quite focused on me when it comes to lurking, but I should point out that you've pretty much ignored everyone else who didn't really post all that much yesterday.

[Zachrulez]

As it is, Sotty tends to try to convince people that I'm scum with other types of reasoning when she's scum, (I don't think I've ever seen her use a lurking argument against me as scum.) so I think it's likely that she's town.

I'm getting that feeling from Jack and Farside too.

I think Sando needs to post more. The issue that spawned Jack vs Sotty stemmed from Jack accusing him of rolefishing. Beyond a single response to that, Sando hasn't posted anything since.

Pretty much everyone else hasn't posted enough for me to get a solid read.

[Zachrulez]

Can you show examples of said games that ‘disprove’ the scum meta read that Sotty is presenting? No, I’m not going to hunt through your Wiki for them.

Off the top of my head. Newbie 846, 859, and 885 are games where I was active as scum. Mini 734 and Open 124 are games I recall being lurky as town. It's a pretty small blip in the game record as a whole.

[Zachrulez]

Sotty: I agreed that in my experience, scum-Zach is less active. That wasn't my problem with what you said. I felt there was something off about the way you brought it up. It didn't ring true to me, the tone I got was 'Sorry for calling you a big scummy lurker this early, Zach, but I'll do it anyway'. If you want to create pressure, why not just call him out for his lack of activity? Why is a townie bothered about making accusations early? To me, it felt like getting in an excuse for your attack at the same time as making it, which I find scummy.

Again, I've never seen Sotty make an attack on me for lurking before and I think the reasoning for that is clear. If she were scum and knew I was town, she would know that should she wake me up and my activity permanently increased, it would hurt her status with the town in the long term. In this scenario can you see a scum motivation for her play? Cause I can't.

[Zachrulez]

Zach is playing a passive, fairly content free game so far. Far too much defense of his own meta and not any significant inquiry into others.

Oh you mean the excessive defense you fueled by asking me for game links?

Locke and Charlie seem by far the weakest votes reasons for voting Sotty.

I don’t feel Sotty is scum at this point so they both bear scrutiny.

So their suspicion can't be legitimate because you think she's town?

Both also aren’t setting the world on fire with post volume. As evidenced above Charlie I feel is a stronger current scum read than Locke.

Neither are you. Your whole scumlist pretty much consists of attacking lurkers.

Unvote: Vote: MOI

[Zachrulez]

Farside, does Jack get better later at least? Or do we have to put up with this the whole time?

Zach, you were listed as one of MOI's top suspect, yet you accuse him of only attacking 'lurkers'. So you're saying that you're a lurker?

Well I was kinda classed as one wasn't I?

[Zachrulez]

Zach: a couple already spring to mind for Sotty-scum: it could be a conscious effort to depart from her scum meta and in doing so make you, and others, think she's more likely town; or you could be scum together and she's saying "hey Zach, don't lurk or I'll have to bus you". Plausible scenarios, plenty of WIFOM, so let's not go there. Also, I don't really see why it hurts her status with the town if she prods you into activity and you respond with lots of activity. The fact that she brought it up at all seems to have given you a town read, so as far as I'm concerned it would be an effective move by Sotty-scum.

Fair enough. I can see the mindset, but I don't see it being the case here.

As it is I'm very suspicious of MOI at the moment, particularly after his response which basically tried to paint everything I said into the scummiest light possible. It just seems like he's trying to make people think he's more sure of his picks for scum than he really is or possibly could be.

[Zachrulez]

Even thought he is V/LA I’d like to officially note that Zach has once again dropped his actively level once the attention has shifted off him.

That's pretty cheap.

[Zachrulez]

Charlie put Magna at L-1 right around when I went V/LA, so that's where I have to read from to catch up. It's late and I'm tired plus I've spent a good portion of time catching up elsewhere so I'll catch up here probably later today. (It shouldn't take too long to read once I get around to it.)

[Zachrulez]

After catching up I'm still happy with my Magna vote.

I'd also be happy with a Zajnet or Porochaz lynch today. Porochaz's play has bothered me for reasons I've already pointed out (and has since faded out of the spotlight) and Zajnet seems to be posting just enough to stick around but hasn't really been doing all that much. Magna's reactions to him and the way he attacks him but never actually pressures him is something that's bothering to me...

After reading Charlie's play, he's done some strange things... but I can't really classify him as likely to be scum. His actions just seem too blatant to me, actions that draw a lot of attention, which is something scum generally don't want.

[Zachrulez]

Magna: I don't see it. How does your first question lead on to anything to do with widening the meta field? Was your original objection similar to mine or not?

The above post diminishes my opinion of Zajnet further, if that was possible. Perhaps I'll put the issue in a different light; can anyone tell me why we shouldn't lynch him?

I actually prefer this lynch now.

Unvote: Vote: Zajnet

I still wouldn't mind Magna or Porochaz lynches at this point either, however with the lack of movement recently, I'm seeing contentment with the top wagons and it's bothering me a bit.

[Zachrulez]

My post in iso 14 pretty much sums up my thoughts on Charlie.

Replaced by jasonT1981. - Incog-mod

[Zachrulez]

So I feel like celebrating, even though I technically didn't win...

[Zachrulez]

I tend to think the scum were lucky to win this game. Goon Cop, weak doc, (which is much more powerful than a normal doctor.) and town roleblocker (Which is basically a 2nd set of cop and doc combined) is a tall order for scum.

[Zachrulez]

I appreciate Zach’s replacing (I’m assuming it was to try to save the slot), Jason’s handling of the bussing and Erg0’s play until he got fingered by Sotty.

That wasn't why I replaced. It didn't have anything to do with anything that happened in game, or any RL issues. It's also something I'm not exactly willing or comfortable talking about on public forum.