Mini 1005: Mafiaphobes! (Game over)

[Tazaro]

I would posit that if he's jailing someone then that someone is protected from any actions, even a mafia nightkill. And I was saying that attacking Humble can very well be a losing battle. But diddin's claiming to want to reread Humble based on the FLIMSY reason of Friend's replacing out is, and then seeing nothing is wrong with Humble, is fishy

[xvart]

If I were scum, what benefit would I have from claiming a provable power role? I may very well be the only protective role in the game. I would be safer claiming VT if I were scum since the flip of another protective role could possibly lead to my lynching.

Because it is not provable. You were asked to claim, you claimed something that has ability that is provable, but not that the alignment is provable. Jailkeeper is a typical scum claim for a scum roleblocker because the outcome is essentially the same. Just because it is a common scum claim does not mean you are not a Jailkeeper, though; but neither does it clear you by any sense of the word.

OR the mod put three townies as neighbors to have them doubt each other and lessen the power of giving the town a direct masonary. Basically, it comes down to out guessing the mod and I don't want it all to come down to that.

I think it would be best to just assess each player's scumminess level independent of the neighborhood. It could just be chasing shadows; but if anything relevant comes up in the neighborhood it should not be withheld.

Considering I doubt there are two protective roles in a mini normal, another protective role flips, and I'm in trouble. Why would I take that risk?

This sounds a lot like doctor fishing. There was something else someone said (I think it was you) earlier that I will have to go out and find along the same lines.

@Humble/Ara - I was going to say something along the lines of what Humble did, essentially that it seems you did a lot of digging and case explaining for someone who only posted three or four times. I think Ara is trying to deflect the attention while still keeping some suspicion to setup a lynch another day. I still think he is a Lyncher.

First of all, I don't think it was prudent to claim when you did vezok.

People who don't want me to claim results: [0/3]

This

wasn't part of the deal. It was supposed to be at least 3 people agreeing regardless of whether it just three.

Second of all, Tazaro seems awfully intent on getting vezok's results, jumping at the opportunity to get some results and then being worried that vezok might not reveal.

You should have tried to fish out if Oso had anything happen to him last night first.

So KageLord did something, and diddin claimed to do something. These two can easily be theorized as planning this in their conversing with each other at night... again, KageLord and diddin, that's my tag team of scumminess.

Conspiracy theory much?

KageLord - do not claim now. I don't see the need and this mass claim is starting to irritate me. I do think if you can confirm or deny that whatever you did was successful or not would be beneficial, i.e. do you know if you were roleblocked?

Tazaro is increasing in scumminess as he spouts of his conspiracy theories and his response to getting more information from the claimed power roles.

xvart.

[Tazaro]

Well, I think that at least me and Sotty and Oso believe that it makes sense for vezo to give us information. And I was a little peeved that vezo seemed to be hedging with his "People who don't want me to claim 0/3" tally after he was indicating a desire to reveal info at the request of 3 people including me and Sotty who also thought that vezo was stalling.

[Tazaro]

edit: Actually Oso was talking about KG giving information, but his "info not hurting town" I think applies to vezo's information as a principle too.

[KageLord]

I would posit that if he's jailing someone then that someone is protected from any actions, even a mafia nightkill. And I was saying that attacking Humble can very well be a losing battle. But diddin's claiming to want to reread Humble based on the FLIMSY reason of Friend's replacing out is, and then seeing nothing is wrong with Humble, is fishy

Yes, we can agree that diddin's reasoning there was suspicious. This has been said a couple of times already. I don't know how that involves me though. The only link I can see that you've given so far is that we both voted for vezok early D2. And that's about the worst scumbuddy link I have ever seen.

Preview edit: xvart, as far as I know, I wasn't roleblocked and my role wasn't tampered with. Saying more though would not be beneficial to town. I may be able to say something about what happened tomorrow, if I'm still alive.

[Tazaro]

I going to admit to confirmation bias. But I think suspicion of Aranneus is odd, xvart? I would think he's a diligent townie because I seem him browsing a lot?

[Tazaro]

I'm not suspicious of Aranneus at all. Who is he a mafia suspect? He seems to like to play is all ,and scumhunt, too, and that strikes me as a town read.

[Tazaro]

edit: HOW is... I wont triple post again.

[Oso]

Ok, after a quick read through.

Diddin, I'm willing to believe at the moment.

Vezo, if he has true claimed then only one, AS IN A SINGLE PLAYER, targeted me so if KageLord can come up with some way to show he wasn't blocked then I wasn't targeted for an NK last night as I AM NOT DEAD.

KageLord, see above.

Please, start focusing people, we have 2 claimed PRs, 1 Unclaimed PR and a whole lot of rubbish and good information that might contain some gold in it somewhere. I'ma throw in with Sotty and xvart at the moment and make a suggestion. Take as many theories as you want and go back to diddin's claim (or even the start of Day 2) and read from there (that's what I'm going to do and I have a couple of whopper theories myself) and then see if they fit.

/me goes back to reading

[Edit after preview]I see KG addressed about not being blocked so for now, I'd say really like to know what his targeting me revealed to him. But it can wait until we have sorted through some other things first, in my opinion. There is enough in the thread as it stands right now to keep us busy for the moment without adding more.

[Oso]

EBWOP should have included this above.

@KG and vezo, if I missed this or haven't gotten to it yet then I apologize but..

Why me?

[diddin]

I'm thinking Tazaro is the best lynch for today. His tunnel vision of me is causing him to make up these crazy conspiracy theories that make absolutely no sense, and he can't even keep consistant with his own theories.

VOTE: Tazaro

[Tazaro]

My suspicion of KageLord was by association with you. But you're scum is not indirect, but direct. Trying to get me, are you?, arr arr arr!

[Sotty7]

Ah screw it. I will claim anyway. Now I am just more suspicious of you and Sotty.

If you didn't want to claim your results why ask the town if they wanted you to or not? It's counterproductive. It is also noted how quick you were to spew your results even though you “didn't want too”.

Double post: By the way, claim KageLord, you've been outed. And it's interesting you targetted diddin's neighbor Oso.

Interesting how?

I have seen mafia watcher a few times before but I wouldn't class it as common role. Jail keeper on the other hand is becoming more a more common these days, at least in my experience. A lot has happened and I think I will need to re-read a few times to process it all a figure out where my vote should go.

[Humble Poirot]

Tazaro: 54 posts in 5 days. Mosts of them do not even make sense, have plenty of mistakes, contradict earlier posts, don't take into account anything that's happened but the last few posts.

Tazaro. Seriously, stop spamming.

I'm just passing through and won't be able to post until tonight or tomorrow. I foresee a page 30 if you keep this absurd trend.

Posting a lot does not make you town, in fact, most of your posts are making you a very strong scum suspect in my book. Stop it. You are not even reading what people post about you. You just ignored my posts.

I see there's been a lot going on but I urge everyone to STOP before acting and take time to read and think.

Don't claim for the sake of it.

I'll come back with clear posts for people to understand and answer but try and realize not everyone can post 10 times a day (and it's not healthy either).

[Oso]

You should have tried to fish out if Oso had anything happen to him last night first.

I know that was directed at vezo but I'll go ahead and answer it anyway. Nothing happened to me last night from my point of view.

To the rest, I'ma go out on a limb here and believe that both vezo and diddin are true claiming so I'm going to take them off my list of potential for today. Why? They are both town roles and with no counters there is absolutely no basis to lynch the claim. We know that if vezo is lying, then KG is as well but since KG did confirm that he targeted me then vezo's claim is probably true (no matter what you may think of vezo's play up to this point) if you grant that they are not partners. The only way to tell would be to flip one of them and I am not in favor of doing that today unless we get close to the end of the day an KG hasn't claimed his role.

Yes, I do want KG to claim his role before the day is out for one very basic reason. He targeted me and I want to know what he got out of it before I get lynched or NKed. Whether it is in the town's best interest or not, I don't really give a fuck at the moment. Town in this game gives every indication that is well along the road to self-destructing and scum isn't going to have to do much more than sit back and laugh their ass off. Best I think I can hope for is to try and help get one of them before they make a concerted effort to start eliminating the players that are an actual danger to them.

Having said that (and yes, I do see the irony of doing this after my last sentence)

VOTE: Sotty7

As I said, I'm going to go ahead an believe diddin and vezo. We have KG outed as a PR but no claim as yet. That is 3 PRs outed and none of them contested (pending KG full claim that is).

So, unless town is way overpowered in this game for some reason one of them is lying OR diddin managed to prevent the mafia night killer instead of protecting a target of the NK. quadz flipped as a VT so we know this isn't a non-vanilla game. We have too many PRs if Sotty is not scum. This is a start to trying to prove/disprove the various claims we have out here.

If you guys can come up with a way to do this without lynching either the claims or the targets, I'm all ears.

[Sotty7]

So... You don't actually have a case on me? Weak vote is weak.

[Oso]

Nope, process of elimination and borrowing some of the thinking on a cop claim with a result. If you grant (and I have at the moment) that diddin, vezo and KG are all town PRs, then the likelihood that diidin prevented a kill rather than protected a target goes way up, at least in my opinion.

I'm wanting to test diddin's claim in the same way we test a cop's claim and investigation. By lynching the target, regardless of the previous reads of the players involved.

[Sotty7]

You lynch me and I flip town that doesn't tell you a thing about diddin's role at all. You don't seem to think I am scum, so why are you suddenly embracing the POE?

[Oso]

I quote myself.

If you guys can come up with a way to do this without lynching either the claims or the targets, I'm all ears.

And to answer you, I think it does. I repeat, there are too many PRs, in my opinion, in this game if you are not scum. I'd like to test that but I will go so far as to say that I'm not married to lynching you to test diddin's claim (I really don't want to lynch one of the few players I'm actually enjoying playing with until the need is apparent). Since KG and veso both targetted the same person(me) I'm also open to arguments that is some sort of set up but alot of that has to do with the question I asked them earlier, why target me?

In this case, I'd rather go after one of the claims rather than the targets but there is no basis. Cases could be made against both diddin and vezo because of their play but their play isn't bad enough to override the claims at this point. Neither have been countered, neither has been proven to have lied about their roles. KageLord is in limbo because we know from vezo and KG himself that is a PR just not what sort of PR.

Maybe ignoring the claims at this point and just going with the players that aren't claimed is the better play, I don't know. Any suggestions?

[Tazaro]

VOTE: Sotty7

What?! And Oso is trusting diddin too much, me thinks. Or is Oso really playing us? I think Oso and diddin is another possible scum pair. I mean, diddin targets Sotty and Oso is trying to lynch Sotty? Bulls***

[Oso]

VOTE: Sotty7

What?! And Oso is trusting diddin too much, me thinks. Or is Oso really playing us? I think Oso and diddin is another possible scum pair. I mean, diddin targets Sotty and Oso is trying to lynch Sotty? Bulls***

Valium is good. You should try some.

[Tazaro]

This game just vexes me kinda.

[Oso]

Think about it for a second. If I and Diddin were partners, and we wanted sooty7 dead, we wouldn't no-kill and then try and get sooty lynched day 2 with a jailkeeper/lynch the target scam,we would have NKed her.

If we did do that, well all I can say is that a complicated gambit like that is going to come unraveled before endgame and would surely bite us in the ass. Town gets confused and scum do use that but that is stretching it. One person might fall for it but not a whole thread.

[Tazaro]

That makes sense. I'd prefer to pressure KageLord with votes to force a claim (we don't know if his information is anti-town as he says, and it's probably not going to make much of a negative impact in comparison to the value of the information anyway), I'd prefer for that to happen rather than lynch Sotty.

[xvart]

edit: HOW is... I wont triple post again.

This will actually mean something to me when it becomes true as opposed to the other times you said it. Most of the times, we don't need edit after edit changing "him" to "her" or "insert this word here" type stuff as we can usually figure out what you were intending to say (at least I can. Maybe I shouldn't speak for everyone else). Seriously, players will take you a lot more seriously if you think about your posts before posting. The only thing I can picture when I think of the person sitting behind your computer is a 13-year old kid who hasn't taken his ADD meds frantically pounding away at his keyboard.

I'm not suspicious of Aranneus at all. Who is he a mafia suspect? He seems to like to play is all ,and scumhunt, too, and that strikes me as a town read.

This is the most bizarre read yet. And what prompted this? Was it something I said?

Diddin - how come you never mentioned anything about sotty prior to your claim and results?

vezok is most likely telling the truth about being a watcher; unless KageLord and him are both scum and this is an elaborate plot, which I doubt.
diddin is most likely telling the truth about the portion of his ability to roleblock, but this is unconfirmed at this time since his target (sotty) was unable to say anything either way about being roleblocked.

I going to admit to confirmation bias. But I think suspicion of Aranneus is odd, xvart? I would think he's a diligent townie because I seem him browsing a lot?

Did I say I was suspicious of him? He is most likely not scum, but a third party Lyncher who is not going to win because his target is Humble and Humble is not getting lynched. Are you intentionally trying to drum up scandal?

Sotty is either the scum who submitted the kill or the person that scum diddin blocked. I find it hard to believe that he would be the kill choice for mafia last night. Sotty being the kill choice just does make any sense to me from a scum POV. I'm thinking that diddin is lying, and if diddin flips scum then I think Tazaro is trying to fish out the actual protective role. I'm not going to go full speed ahead with connections at this point, but I do not believe diddin is a town Jailkeeper. I think the best bet when determining who to lynch is to not only consider the roles, but also who has been the scummiest.

xvart.