Mini 1012: Mafia In Soraville (Game Over!)

[Jack]

dh is scum and esurio is a prob buddy, I wouldn't worry about it.

[DemonHybrid]

Then kill me and find out how wrong you are. I'd gladly die to prove ortiz's scumminess.

[ortiz1193]

...

DH you haven't said a thing about me all game. And suddenly I'm scummy. Awesome.

Jack: Can two neighbors be scum? Seems ehh.

[DemonHybrid]

...

DH you haven't said a thing about me all game. And suddenly I'm scummy. Awesome.

Jack: Can two neighbors be scum? Seems ehh.

I don't have to say anything to have thoughts.

In fact, I hadn't really thought about it much until very recently.

[ortiz1193]

DH didn't you say you thought neighbors were masons? I misunderstood earlier.

[Jack]

...

DH you haven't said a thing about me all game. And suddenly I'm scummy. Awesome.

Jack: Can two neighbors be scum? Seems ehh.

I don't have to say anything to have thoughts.

In fact, I hadn't really thought about it much until very recently.

Lol, did you come up with an excuse and then not delete when you thought of a better one?

[esuriospiritus]

Without seeing the ongoing he's referencing, I don't think I can really make a judgement on the "ridiculousness" of thinking neighbours = masons. I don't know if Ortiz and DH received the same role PM as I did, but mine says nothing either way about whether or not Ortiz and DH are confirmed town to me, I just kind of assumed they're not confirmed because I know the difference between a neighbour and a mason (and while starting out the game as three masons would be kinda OP imo, starting out as three town-neighbours wouldn't be unless everyone came to read everyone else as town day 1, which is a read I have but... obviously DH and ortiz each think the other is scum, so meh)

"Everything we know" was a dumbly worded breadcrumb tbqh. <_< "Everything we know" is that DH, Ortiz and I are all neighbours together, and I'm town and I've read both of them as town for pretty much the entirety of this game.

DH, why is ortiz scum, exactly?

[DemonHybrid]

He's telling the truth about the neighbour thing.

I'm one of them.

I admit I'm slightly surprised at that. Any pre game chat from you guys? Aren't you at all suspicious of his ridiculous manner of claiming it? He was trying to make it sound like something super. Neighbor claim is not a towntell.

What's "everything we know" again?

I made it sound important because it is. On the veryyyyyyyyyyy slight chance that all 3 of us are town, it outs all of the PRs. Plus, if the 3 of us are left till the end of the game and we're all town, it's us 3 vs whoever's left, therefore basically outing the rest of the alignments.

3 people is a big number in a mini.

[ortiz1193]

Esurio: Because you defended him and I know he's scum, so when we all claimed he picked you to side with.

[DemonHybrid]

DH, why is ortiz scum, exactly?

His unwillingness to be outed, his case on me and his general attitude towards scumhunting vs. the number of town left. If PRs were such a big deal to him AND if he thought I was scum, outing himself to label me as scum shouldn't put the number of town left with PRs as such a big deal.

It's basically like this:

Neighbor A doesn't want to out everyone. They want to make sure the PRs stay hidden and that there's a big field to choose from and they believe all neighbors are town.
Neighbor B doesn't care about outing everyone, because he believes that there's scum on the neighbor team and it's worth it if he believes Neighbor C is town compared to Neighbor A.

You can't have both. Ortiz cares about the PRs staying hidden AND votes me for being scum.

[DemonHybrid]

DH, why is ortiz scum, exactly?

His unwillingness to be outed, his case on me and his general attitude towards scumhunting vs. the number of town left. If PRs were such a big deal to him AND if he thought I was scum, outing himself to label me as scum shouldn't put the number of town left with PRs as such a big deal.

It's basically like this:

Neighbor A doesn't want to out everyone. They want to make sure the PRs stay hidden and that there's a big field to choose from and they believe all neighbors are town.
Neighbor B doesn't care about outing everyone, because he believes that there's scum on the neighbor team and it's worth it if he believes Neighbor C is town compared to Neighbor A.

You can't have both. Ortiz cares about the PRs staying hidden AND votes me for being scum.

EBWOP: "Neighbor B doesn't care about outing everyone, because he believes that there's scum on the neighbor team and it's worth it if he believes Neighbor X is town compared to Neighbor Y."

[ready2rock]

This is getting complicated.

Preview edit: even more complicated...

I actually think that the best lynch at this point is one of the claimed neighbors. I think you know which one I want to lynch.

[DemonHybrid]

Yep, go ahead. I'm still going to fight it, but I don't mind at this point. Not going to do that "vote myself" martyr bullshit, but I think I've done what I can.

[ortiz1193]

What motivation does a scum neighbor have for not wanting to be outed?

[DemonHybrid]

What motivation does a scum neighbor have for not wanting to be outed?

Trust and safety.

I can say that I think you wanting the PRs to stay hidden is an attempt to look town. Don't want to be caught rolefishing, right?

[esuriospiritus]

DH, who's to say there aren't other power roles? Just because mini normals get reviewed for "normalcy" doesn't

necessarily

mean they are balanced.

Out of everything in Ortiz's play, the

only

thing that has given me pause was his unwillingness to be outed, and with that I don't even think I could put words to why that sets off my radar, because there are town reasons to not want to be outed, too. The rest of his play has been fairly exemplary, and I don't think one unexpected reaction is enough to think he's scum.

[ortiz1193]

Why would I need to rolefish if I already knew our roles? Bad attempt to put suspicion on me.

[DemonHybrid]

DH, who's to say there aren't other power roles? Just because mini normals get reviewed for "normalcy" doesn't

necessarily

mean they are balanced.

Out of everything in Ortiz's play, the

only

thing that has given me pause was his unwillingness to be outed, and with that I don't even think I could put words to why that sets off my radar, because there are town reasons to not want to be outed, too. The rest of his play has been fairly exemplary, and I don't think one unexpected reaction is enough to think he's scum.

Ortiz is a competent scum player. So is MvK, from what I hear.

Just keep your eye on him, is all I ask. I still say that he shouldn't be voting for me if he didn't want to out town PRs. Something doesn't add up about his priorities.

[DemonHybrid]

Why would I need to rolefish if I already knew our roles? Bad attempt to put suspicion on me.

Rolefish the other townie's roles.

[esuriospiritus]

Buh. How was ortiz rolefishing?

[ortiz1193]

1. You didn't answer earlier. Did you think neighbors were masons until recently?

2. I didn't expect you to out us when you claimed, so they don't contradict.

3. So you're saying me wanting to not out us, is because I do not want to rolefish? That doesn't make sense. I wouldn't want to rolefish regardless of my alignment... I don't see the point there. Like I said, just looks like you trying to put suspicion on me over nothing.

[ortiz1193]

He's saying I'm scum because scum don't want to rolefish.

[esuriospiritus]

fwiw he only half-outed us, I outed myself because it was a better option than trying to get away from Jack's persistent questioning regarding my terrible attempted breadcrumb thing. <_<

But yeah, I concur with the sentiment that the rolefishing thing doesn't make sense. Town shouldn't want to rolefish either.

[TheLonging]

*shakes head*

I'm not claiming or saying anything about my role, but obviously I claim town. You guys can try to make sense of my role if you want, but it's in town's best interest if I just don't say anything about it (trust me, if I do, it could mean the end of town).

Don't like it? Deal. Go ahead with your lynch.

Final scumlist:

Kov, Twomz, IP.

e_e

After a quick wiki readthrough, I found out that my other game's sadly mistaken about my role.

My claim is Town Neighbor. I had originally thought that soras just made up a name for masons, but this other game that I'm in came to the conclusion that neighbors just tell others that they're town, and that's their power.

I need to read into things a lot more.

e_e

[TheLonging]

Now, DH's claim yields some interesting scenarios. I'm thinking out loud here, so forgive me if I forget anything.

Possibility One: DH is lying and is therefore scum. I don't see this scenario being very likely, because sooner or later his scumbuddies would have to pretend to be his neighbors, and that's uneccessary risk this early in the game. Therefore, we go to...

This is actually pretty likely

Possibility Two: DH is indeed a Neighbor. Neighbors aren't guaranteed alignment, so now we have three subscenarios:
2a) All of the neighbors are town.

This would make for the most unbalanced game of mafia ever

2b) DH is town, and at least one of his neighbors is scum.

Less likely[/b[
2c) DH is a scum neighbor.

If a neighbor at all

If scenario 2a is correct, then I think that makes TheLonging's claim less likely; that would give four townspeople powerroles while leaving nobody but the Mafia for TL to track.

Like I said, if all the neighbors were town, this would be unbalanced, for me or them otherwise

If scenario 2b is correct, then DH can narrow down at least one scum to a small group of people.

I like this, but I think 2c is better

Scenario 2c is possible, but I still see Kov and Twomz as better lynches today.

e_e

I'm partial to 2a myself, but that's partially because I don't believe his claim and 2a lets me keep TL as a major suspect. I think I need to mull it over for a little bit and reread some people in isolation.

So what you think is, 2a is the best scenario because it makes me scum.

wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow

Scenario 2a sounds most likely given everything we know. I'm definitely with Haschel on still not

really

trusting TL.

Meh. I am going to change my vote to

unvote; Vote: Twomz

because I still don't think DH is scum, whereas I'm not so sure about Twomz.

2A IS THE BEST SCENARIO BECAUSE IT MAKES MR SCUM GAUISE

GAUISE???

And ortiz is the other.

Ortiz is scum.

Actually with essi and ortiz being neighbors, ortiz is likely to be town. essi is the scum one

Then kill me and find out how wrong you are. I'd gladly die to prove ortiz's scumminess.

e_e (note; this e_e I CAN explain)