Mini 990: YuGiOh! The Abridged Mafia - (OVER)

[charter]

Good stuff. Now we need to get Bv in here.

MOD, request prod on Bv please.

ATTENTION DUELISTS

MY HAIR WOULD LIKE TO ANNOUNCE THE VOTECOUNT!

Brandi (0) -
bv310 (2) - Charter, Fishythefish
charter (0) -
FakeGod (1) - bv310
Fishythefish (0) -
MaxMouse (0) -

6 alive, 4 to lynch

[bv310]

I've been ignoring bv because his claim doesn't feel like a scum claim. But this case is basically conclusive.

vote: bv

lulz. If that's how you play mafia, then I'd give up now.

Allow me to respond to this "conclusive" case.

Exhibit A: This point basically hinges on you saying that my using meta is a scumtell. I've played games with Dram where he was a pro-town PR and he played nearly identical to how he did in this game. The last time I played with him as scum, he was nearly opposite to this, so I hoped to avoid running up a pro-town PR (as I thought he was at the time) to a claim on D1.

Exhibit B: I only "proclaimed with certainty" based on a post by Dram when I reread him after he flipped scum. Also, it's a beginning of day vote, aka the time when you usually look at D1 plays and look for connections.

Exhibit C: This one is based on my believing AlmGM's claim of doublevoter after it was quite clear that we had a double voter. When there was no CC, it's rather clear that he's telling the truth. I've never seen a scum double-voter before, so his un-CC'd claim is pretty compelling evidence for his alignment.

As for your "massive red flag", I don't see why it's so inconceivable that I could, you know, actually

think about the game

and change my opinions on a claim. I read a few other games with siblings in them. The Joey claim makes a mild amount of sense, except for the "turned vig" part. I think he's either a sibling-turned-SK, like in Whedonesque, or is actually telling the truth about his role (CONSIDERABLY more unlikely, at least to me)

Seriously, if that's the best case you have, I'd really like to see your worst.


PREVIEW EDIT: So impatient, Charter.

[charter]

No.

This is our last scum. Brandi, FakeGod and Maxmouse, if you have any questions, I'll be happy to elaborate.

[bv310]

No.

Just no? Not even going to try and defend your case? If I'm scum, then you're the SK.

[charter]

That's fine. I'm the SK.

[Fishythefish]

I'll defend his case.

lulz. If that's how you play mafia, then I'd give up now.

Allow me to respond to this "conclusive" case.

Exhibit A: This point basically hinges on you saying that my using meta is a scumtell. I've played games with Dram where he was a pro-town PR and he played nearly identical to how he did in this game. The last time I played with him as scum, he was nearly opposite to this, so I hoped to avoid running up a pro-town PR (as I thought he was at the time) to a claim on D1.

Exhibit B: I only "proclaimed with certainty" based on a post by Dram when I reread him after he flipped scum. Also, it's a beginning of day vote, aka the time when you usually look at D1 plays and look for connections.

Exhibit C: This one is based on my believing AlmGM's claim of doublevoter after it was quite clear that we had a double voter. When there was no CC, it's rather clear that he's telling the truth. I've never seen a scum double-voter before, so his un-CC'd claim is pretty compelling evidence for his alignment.

As for your "massive red flag", I don't see why it's so inconceivable that I could, you know, actually

think about the game

and change my opinions on a claim. I read a few other games with siblings in them. The Joey claim makes a mild amount of sense, except for the "turned vig" part. I think he's either a sibling-turned-SK, like in Whedonesque, or is actually telling the truth about his role (CONSIDERABLY more unlikely, at least to me)

Seriously, if that's the best case you have, I'd really like to see your worst.


PREVIEW EDIT: So impatient, Charter.

No. Your defence of dramonic relies on your meta. The point for me is that you defended both scum, and have defended noone else in the game, and that your reasons for defending the scum are pretty weak.

For the AGM vote; that's not particularly conclusive for me. It's a bad vote - you don't give any reason at all why you have jumped to bussing as an explanation for AGM's play, and bussing is less common than not bussing.

Exhibit C you misunderstand; the point is that you tried to throw doubt on FG's claim using the terrible argument "you don't get mason groups in a 12 player game".

If you thought about the game and changed your opinions, you gave zero indication of that. Here is a synopsis of your arguments:
FG: claim to be Serenity's sibling
bv: That's never true! You aren't Serenity's sibling!
Pie: claim to be looking for Seto as Mokuba.
bv: That's probably true. We have one pair of siblings, we might well have another.
You jumped from strongly believing FG's claim was false to assuming it was true with no indication that your mind was changing - and indeed, being absent for post of the time between those posts. I simply don't buy that.

[Fishythefish]

EBWOP: you jumped from strongly believing

the sibling aspect of

FG's claim was false to assuming....

[Brandi]

I would still really like for MaxMouse to tell us the flavor of his role pm before making any sort of decisions.

[bv310]

He claimed Confirmed Townie with her. That's the part I still don't believe. I believe his name claim, but not his role claim.

[MaxMouse]

@Fishy: You made a point earlier regarding BV's roleclaim giving you pause. Does this still bother you? Why or why not? Also, does it concern you that FG could possibly register as an SK? A sibling who turns SK is not uncommon, I'd just like to know if you've considered it.

@Charter: Does his actual claim (not the time of the claim) factor in to what you think of this situation? It follows up to Fishy's question.

@FakeGod: Where are you and what do you make of this sitauton?

I've been V/LA because i have limited internet access but has FakeGod been V/LA as well and I missed it? He hasn't posted since tuesday

@Brandi: Oh sorry, I missed this before. I had some flavor concerning my (nonexistant) ability to see the future and not doing anything because I don't want to be involved in the plot.

Following this, can you answer the same question I posed to Fishy and Charter

@All: Apologies if I missed something I asked you in my re-reading as I've been with limited usage.

[charter]

Bv's actually claim is really weird. That role seems like it's fabricated, since it relies on randomness, and roles that rely on random chance are bastard modding, of which I enter every game assuming isn't the case.

And then there's the fact that no one can confirm his role, and it's a really weak claim.

Did you read post 744? What is your opinion of it? I ask because you managed to come back from not posting and say not a damn thing.

[MaxMouse]

Regarding 744: I think you bring up a good point regarding BV's attempt at Alamaster, who was more of an aggressive obvtown at that time. He went after someone who was very much a long way away from a suspect at that point. I think the real issue at that point was there is no good reason to run that gambit on D1 and bus your scumbuddy. For one it'd be a douche move, and for another reason it would just handicap you as scum if you were. Those reasons were pretty obvious at that time but he went after Alamaster anyway.

Personally I think thats a bigger red flag than his hypocrisy but the flag you pointed out is probably close to as big in my mind anyway. You can't literally be attacking one person for something that you're defending another for. Its either awful town play with a tinge of stupidity or really obvious scum play.

However, I'd like to hear from FG before getting moving on this. I think FG is a part of this accusation due to the "red flag" concerning his case and BV's accusations. I think his commentary at this point is important.

Mod: Can you prod FG since he hasn't posted in over 3 days or is he V/LA?

[charter]

This is getting a little ridiculous. We have Brandi waiting for Maxmouse to start talking. And we have Maxmouse waiting for FakeGod to start talking. Both of you don't need someone else in order to participate.

[Brandi]

Well I was suspicious of Maxmouse, and since he didn't give any flavor I wasn't just going to drop a vote without being sure of him. So yes, I do(did), at least. His flavor satisfies me, though.

BV is the only one that seems the most suspect at this point, and now I get the feeling that his only reasons for defending me before were to deter me of being suspicious of him. There have been too many games where I trusted scum too easily. >_< It makes sense for scum to incriminate someone and then defend them, I guess... and it would make even more sense that BV would want FG lynched today instead of me since as a vig he would pose a problem for scum.

unvote

,

vote: Bv

[MaxMouse]

@Charter: I understand where you're coming from but I believe that FG is an important part of this case and I'd like to hear his take before simply rushing BV off to a lynch. After all he is at L-1.

[FakeGod]

I am indifferent who we lynch today.

I'm actually rereading heavily in order to shoot scum tonight should we mislynch.

[FakeGod]

If bv could further explain his claim, more than "decide someone's fate", that would be nice.

[bv310]

That's all the explanation I was given. I PM'd the mod about it, but he said that he couldn't reveal any more and that my role PM told me everything I needed to know. Quite frustrating actually.

[charter]

Hammer

[FakeGod]

bv is there anything else you received from the mod when you rolled dice on people?

[bv310]

Nope. For N1, all I got was some flavour about how I had decided that MM was the most suspicious, so I decided to let the dice decide. Concentrating on him, I rolled the dice, turning up a 5 and a 1, for a total of six. N2 was basically the same, except it said that I was shocked to see the dice staring back at me, and that I felt an ominous reaction from the result coming into this day.

[FakeGod]

That is such a weird and obscure flavor that I don't think scum would be claiming stuff like that....

Lynching a PR doesn't........feel right.

bv, if you could, give us two foses.

[charter]

FakeGod, anyone can claim any role they want, that doesn't make them scum. Why do you think scum wouldn't continue the charade?

[FakeGod]

Of couse scum would. But there's an off chance that bv's actually some sort of a cop.

charter, if you had to lynch between the VTs, who would it be?

[bv310]

I would go FOS: FG & Fishy. FG for the reasons I've stated previously, and Fishy because he seems quite content to sit back, fly under the radar, and let me get mislynched without actually committing himself.