Mini 1021: Battousai's Mountaintnous Mountain Mafia (Over)

[Nexus]

Maybe "My suspicions are thus:" was the wrong thing to say. "This is where I stand" would've been better. Whatever, it was a mistake.

However, if you look at my next two lists, Xite doesn't figure on them. I've also put that Fitz isn't that suspicious in that list. I was just typing as I was thinking, it'll teach me to take my time more.

I didn't say he wasn't suspicious to get him off my back, I said he wasn't suspicious because I didn't find him suspicious. Granted, I was stupid enough not to split it into two lists, but whatever. I'll learn from the mistake.

I think I was misusing the word tunnelling, Prana. Now you've explained it, I understand it better.

As for my vote on LmL. I didn't change it during the RVS because he hasn't convinced me he's town. I then forgot about it, but when it was pointed out, I made the decision not to change it.

[Lateralus22]

However, if you look at my next two lists, Xite doesn't figure on them.

This supports my theory that you just stuck Xite there to get him off your back.

I was just typing as I was thinking, it'll teach me to take my time more.

Does this mean you are rushing through the game? Don't you care about how your actions will affect the game and how it'll affect the town's ability to find scum?

[Nexus]

I'm not rushing through the game-I have a really short attention span, and if I don't get my ideas down, I forget them really quick. I know now that I should take more time, yes, write it all down, but then go over it again and stuff to make sure it makes sense x]

I didn't realise I was making such a hash of things, now I do, I'll be more careful.

The initial list was all the people who I could remember without looking through the thread, which was all the people who had stuck out to me. Saga and the others hadn't, so I didn't mention them in that list.

[Korashk]

Just because you asked:

But on post #29 he decides to go ahead and vote, a random vote. This seems odd to me because just a few posts ago he said he wouldn't vote,

implying (right?) that his future vote would be a serious one.

Nothing game changing had happened between these posts and it was a very short amount of time so I'm wondering why he changed his mind then when he could have given a random vote before.

1.) It wasn't THAT short of a timeframe. The second referenced post came more than an hour after the first.
2.) My satelite internet ran out (don't ask, it's retarded), and I can't access sites like the one I use to RNG until it refreshes. Which it had when I voted.
3.) In reference to the bold: You can read what you like from my posts. It doesn't mean you're right.

[PranaDevil]

An hour IS a short timeframe... especially when you've already stated that random voting "this many people" "accomplishes nothing", only to random vote someone who again isn't already being voted for.

Nothing of signifigance was posted in that time either. Just 3 posts, one being Commie responding to the "commie hate" you jokingly responding to it, and Leech posting his joke vote.

The fact you are seemingly so defensive of it doesn't smell right, and the contradiction in your posts is obvious.

[Leech]

Sorry for the delay, it's been a busy last couple of days. I'm trying to take everything in, and catch up.

I first need to apologize to you (and I hope you enjoyed my sarcastic opening), as I guess I just felt attacked from the get-go from something that was out of my control, and I overreacted. My spoonfeeding comment was rude, and I humbly offer an apology.

There's no need to apologize, actually. I took it as a joke, and replied to it in the same manner.

However, fitz also seems to have missed iam's joke, although he didn't go as far as "roleclaiming."

Did you miss the part where Iam stated, rather blatantly, that he wasn't really joking and he was hoping to catch scum not paying attention? Which makes me wonder. Iam, if you posted that for the reasons you did, how is it I haven't seen you question this:

Seriously...did you expect any town PRs to reveal themselves? Though I do support scum claims. You first?

You claim to have been seriously trying to catch scum off guard, and someone actually posted a comment that fits the bill. Oddly enough, I haven't seen you mention it a single time. If those were really your intentions, why didnt you pursue them when someone did react in the exact manner you described? Clearly with the people laughing at your proposal before Havingfitz replied, that is an indication that he posted before reading the comments about your suggestion being funny. Not reading the thread before you post brings up an entirely new area that you could have pursued. Instead of doing any of this, you just dismissed your idea. I don't see why you'd go to the lengths to actually attempt that gambit just to abandon it so quickly.

VOTE: dalt54321 for trying to come across so helpless, ex. "so i really don't know whats going on yet," lying about this being his/her first game (http://www.mafiascum.net/archive/viewto ... 2#p1196368) and making simple errors which IMO are intended to convey a sense of being helpless, i.e.getting the length of the first day wrong (granted it could be bad math) and just highting the name saga in the initial vote despite having used the proper format in previous games (once again...http://www.mafiascum.net/archive/viewto ... 2#p1196368).

You consider two posts before getting replaced out a previous game? Literally here are his posts from the game you quoted:

Post 1:

vote omni ovious scum

Post 2:

unvote

vote flyingfoxbat he looks too suspicious.

Would you consider that to be an actual game of mafia? Two posts doesn't make a game, and you don't learn anything from them. So, if he actually participates in this game, I'd say it was his first game of mafia. I'm not sure that I like how you went out of your way to search for a game he was in, but didn't bother to specify that he replaced out after two contentless posts. That is pretty misleading.

I'm starting to get the feeling Xite is actively searching for things to try and comment on, regardless of how small and pointless, in the interests of "scum hunting".

So you pretty much describe early game scum-hunting (the small and pointless issues turn into major ones over time) and state that it's in the interest of "scum hunting" in a negative image? To me you just tried to put a negative spin on pro-town behavior.

Right. I think you're being far too harsh on me, and it's quite unnecessary. I don't really are about how suspicious you are about me, you're wrong.

I really don't like this attitude, at all. It's one thing to feel that you're being persecuted wrongly, but to flat out state that you don't care if you come off as suspicious is entirely different. You should care whether or not the town is overly suspicious of you, as that could be a distraction that can prevent us from actually finding the scum. "I don't care, you're wrong" helps absolutely no one.

I dunno whether it's suspicious that Commie's asked for a replacement. Maybe he thought he wouldn't be able to play scum very well? So, it'll be interesting to see what his replacement does.

Really? Funny, I don't get to play scum very often, so when I have to replace out of games those are the ones that I keep. That could just be me, but I don't see someone replacing out just because they are scum. In any event seeking replacement is a null tell. Also, the last time I saw someone make a comment like that was in a newbie game, when the accuser flipped scum. I have seen this from scum before, so I will:

Unvote, Vote: Nexus

Bolded. You practically admitted to not noticing me until I posted that you were suspicious. And now you're watching me?

What kind of Monty Python logic drew you to that conclusion? He clearly stated that he caught your attention because you are more active, (obviously a lot of activity draws attention) and simply stated you had interacted with him directly. It's far easier to "get into" a game when there's a personal touch. When you aren't interacting with anyone, in specific, it's really hard to get momentum early on in the game.

@Everyone: I'm going to politely ask that you stop posting scumlists. While it can be a benefit to the town, it also goes a long way in showing the scum how well they are blending in, or if they need to improve on it. When they are actually beneficial, is later on in the game.

Korashk posting vote counts really isn't sitting well with me, nor are some of his comments:

With that said I still have two more things that I think we should all remember:
1.) There are ten of us, we need to work as a team. We are not individuals (well we are, but you know what I mean).
2.) There are ten of us, it's okay if we lynch a townie or two on accident. Even a lynched townie garners information for us to analyze.

This just looks like he's adding more content to his post for the sake of adding more content. It's not like he added any theories or concepts that any of us would be unfamilar with, he posted something that is pretty much common sense. This, from my perspective, is an attempt to look like you're helping while adding nothing that will actually help the game progress. This can be a scum tactic to appear helpful while making safe comments that can't bite him in the ass later.

[Korashk]

An hour IS a short timeframe... especially when you've already stated that random voting "this many people" "accomplishes nothing", only to random vote someone who again isn't already being voted for.

Short to you and Later maybe, time is subjective. You're also neglecting the fact that I didn't just random vote, I random voted and asked the person I voted to respond. They ignored this request, which is something I will remember.

Another thing you're ignoring is my reason for not voting in the first post.

[Korashk]

An hour IS a short timeframe... especially when you've already stated that random voting "this many people" "accomplishes nothing", only to random vote someone who again isn't already being voted for.

Short to you and Later maybe, time is subjective. You're also neglecting the fact that I didn't just random vote, I random voted and asked the person I voted to respond. They ignored this request, which is something I will remember.

Another thing you're ignoring is my reason for not voting in the first post.

[Korashk]

Woah, dunno what happened there.

[PranaDevil]

Another thing you're ignoring is my reason for not voting in the first post.

Alright, I'll bite. What part of your post, the entirety of which is quoted below, gave a reason for not voting?

Just a little Vote Count, the contents of which I find odd:

Prana (1/7) [Lee]
Lee (3/7) [Nexus, Anon, prana]
commie (2/7) (username, Xite)
Dalt (1/7) [Saga]
username (1/7) [having]

That's freaking crazy and random voting this many people accomplishes nothing.

Observations:
- username didn't realize that this game was all vanilla, probably an innocent mistaske but I'm keeping my eye on him/her
- Lee attempting to explain away the random vote thing and giving evidence to substantiate this is trying too hard. A simple "this is how we did it in the day" would have sufficed.
- Having also didn't read that there are no roles in this game, again keeping my eye on.
- Lee is getting pretty defensive, I'm saying that he's town for now.

Will refrain from voting for now.

[Xite91]

1) You claim to have been seriously trying to catch scum off guard, and someone actually posted a comment that fits the bill. Oddly enough, I haven't seen you mention it a single time. If those were really your intentions, why didnt you pursue them when someone did react in the exact manner you described? Clearly with the people laughing at your proposal before Havingfitz replied, that is an indication that he posted before reading the comments about your suggestion being funny. Not reading the thread before you post brings up an entirely new area that you could have pursued. Instead of doing any of this, you just dismissed your idea. I don't see why you'd go to the lengths to actually attempt that gambit just to abandon it so quickly.

2) Really? Funny, I don't get to play scum very often, so when I have to replace out of games those are the ones that I keep. That could just be me, but I don't see someone replacing out just because they are scum. In any event seeking replacement is a null tell. Also, the last time I saw someone make a comment like that was in a newbie game, when the accuser flipped scum. I have seen this from scum before, so I will:

Unvote, Vote: Nexus

3) What kind of Monty Python logic drew you to that conclusion? He clearly stated that he caught your attention because you are more active, (obviously a lot of activity draws attention) and simply stated you had interacted with him directly. It's far easier to "get into" a game when there's a personal touch. When you aren't interacting with anyone, in specific, it's really hard to get momentum early on in the game.

4) @Everyone: I'm going to politely ask that you stop posting scumlists. While it can be a benefit to the town, it also goes a long way in showing the scum how well they are blending in, or if they need to improve on it. When they are actually beneficial, is later on in the game.

Korashk posting vote counts really isn't sitting well with me, nor are some of his comments:

With that said I still have two more things that I think we should all remember:
1.) There are ten of us, we need to work as a team. We are not individuals (well we are, but you know what I mean).
2.) There are ten of us, it's okay if we lynch a townie or two on accident. Even a lynched townie garners information for us to analyze.

5) This just looks like he's adding more content to his post for the sake of adding more content. It's not like he added any theories or concepts that any of us would be unfamilar with, he posted something that is pretty much common sense. This, from my perspective, is an attempt to look like you're helping while adding nothing that will actually help the game progress. This can be a scum tactic to appear helpful while making safe comments that can't bite him in the ass later.

1) Considering he was trying to get a pr claim? Also, so fitz didn't have a clue about it being all townies, that means he doesn't read mod-posts, not that he's scum. I've missed a joke before and he was probably thinking "What's so funny?." Meh, just speculation. That one post does not make him scum, his case on Dalt? Maybe
2) I'll remember that if I end up playing any other games with you/ if I see you replacing out of other games. Also, that's more a what if scenario. I probably wouldn't replace out as scum either, but I also wouldn't replace out as a PR, or if I really like the game I'm in. Other's would rather play town. See where I'm going with this?
3) Read the game again, think, then repost what you discovered. (Lol Lat, remember that?). Anyways, it was discussed by me and fitz if I recall and there was a bit of a misunderstanding and we fixed it.
4) Seriously, this is a debate that has been going on as long as Mafia has, right LmL? It can also be helpful to town by analysis of where suspicions lay yadda yadda yadda, I'm sure there's something about it in mafia discussion, go check it out.
5) I saw it more as an excuse in case he gets a townie lynched. o.o
Also, yes, we are individuals, we're just working to figure out which of those individuals don't belong in the group

[Xite91]

Another thing you're ignoring is my reason for not voting in the first post.

It's really easy to ignore something that's not there tho

[PranaDevil]

Okies, how'd that quote block in my post get stuffed up? Both quotes should be from Korashk, bad, stupid quoting fail.

Note to self, don't try posting late at night when you're half asleep, you look like a tit.

[Lateralus22]

1.) It wasn't THAT short of a timeframe. The second referenced post came more than an hour after the first.
2.) My satelite internet ran out (don't ask, it's retarded), and I can't access sites like the one I use to RNG until it refreshes. Which it had when I voted.
3.) In reference to the bold: You can read what you like from my posts. It doesn't mean you're right.

1. An hour was a rounded done time. Though I don't really think that an extra thirteen minutes is a very groundbreaking difference. Comparing one hour and thirteen minutes to the whole game time (18 days) it IS a short time. Even in general it still is when you look at the content displayed. Though this is more of an opinion I will try to leave it alone since it's not very important.

2. Thanks for explaining.

3. All you said was "I will refrain from voting", I believe that you notice you did not explain why right? Now considering you didn't explain this leaves me and the rest of the people here to wonder why. Was he too lazy, was he busy, maybe he's thinking up something evil, or perhaps he doesn't feel the need to make a rvs vote, did you expect us all to come to the conclusion of "Oh wait, his internet sucks, thats why!". (Again this falls back to the time frame but it seems you don't agree that it was short). Note, there's a reason I added the (right?). I was asking you if you were, but it seems by your reaction and explanation, you were not.

----

I'm not rushing through the game-I have a really short attention span, and if I don't get my ideas down, I forget them really quick. I know now that I should take more time, yes, write it all down, but then go over it again and stuff to make sure it makes sense x]

Alright I understand, I assume you made all of your posts in a fast way?

I was just typing as I was thinking, it'll teach me to take my time more.

[LoudmouthLee]

Did you miss the part where Iam stated, rather blatantly, that he wasn't really joking and he was hoping to catch scum not paying attention? Which makes me wonder. Iam, if you posted that for the reasons you did, how is it I haven't seen you question this:

Seriously...did you expect any town PRs to reveal themselves? Though I do support scum claims. You first?

You claim to have been seriously trying to catch scum off guard, and someone actually posted a comment that fits the bill. Oddly enough, I haven't seen you mention it a single time. If those were really your intentions, why didnt you pursue them when someone did react in the exact manner you described? Clearly with the people laughing at your proposal before Havingfitz replied, that is an indication that he posted before reading the comments about your suggestion being funny. Not reading the thread before you post brings up an entirely new area that you could have pursued. Instead of doing any of this, you just dismissed your idea. I don't see why you'd go to the lengths to actually attempt that gambit just to abandon it so quickly.

But I didn't think that; I was fully aware of the setup. My thought was that there was a pretty good chance that at least one person wouldn't be, and therefore some chance that a scum player would be one of those people, and therefore a minute chance that by encouraging an immediate massclaim, we could trick a scum into outing themselves straight away by claiming a power role.

Well, we didn't get that, and if you don't know what mountainous mafia is... shame on them However.. we got... "something", and if anyone wants to metagame this player (as I know nothing of his playing style), please do so..

VOTE: iamausername for rolefishing.

Seriously...did you expect any town PRs to reveal themselves? Though I do support scum claims. You first?

Could be a joke (especially if HF is that type of guy), but could also be careless. I haven't made a decision on it yet, so

Minor FoS: HF

as a quick aside before bed, I brought this up on page one with no response from anyone.

FoS: CA

Here's what I notice so far: We're currently attacking a non-posting Dalt.

Mod, can Dalt be prodded? He is needed here.

He either needs to explain himself or be replaced. I do feel that the "scumtell" on him is currently very weak, and people are looking to push for a lurker lynch.. Or a newbie lynch. Either which way... I don't like that play right now.

Some random questions to be posed to some people...

@Nexus: You still say you find people scummier than I am, and we're well passed the RVP. Your vote on me is still very curious (with your I forgot and i wanted to see how you reacted.) Well, you saw how I reacted, and you see how everyone else seems to be reacting. I'm curious how this is all part of your master plan. So, rook... you're move. What's next? Your vote is on me, and I'm curious to why you haven't voted for people you found SCUMMIER.

@Leech: Do you find HF's post a scumtell, or do you find CA's lack of a response a scumtell? Or do you find them both nulls?

@CA: Much has been said that you've retracted your amount of posts while under heat. To be fair, I've been so wrapped up with how scummy Nexus is, that I hadn't bothered to follow up my FoS of you. With that being said, I would love for you to explain what you think of HF's post, and other questions posted of you in thread. If you need post numbers, I will be happy to oblige.

Oh yeah.. @Xite, Scumlists are a nulltell... generally (IMHO), unless they change drastically from post to post. It looks like someone is trying to throw a rock around until someone gets beaned.

[Xite91]

@LmL - What did that last sentence mean exactly? Was it in referral to what I was saying, or was it in referral to when scumlists change?

[LoudmouthLee]

That scumlists are generally a null tell, but when they change from post to post (as in this case), they can be a scumtell.

[Xite91]

@LmL - What did that last sentence mean exactly? Was it in referral to what I was saying, or was it in referral to when scumlists change?

[LoudmouthLee]

Sorry, late here. Yes, it's been going on forever. I think, personally, that in general, it is a null tell. However, in this case, I think there's merit to it.

[Xite91]

@LmL - What did that last sentence mean exactly?

Was it in referral to what I was saying, or was it in referral to when scumlists change?

*facepalm*

[LoudmouthLee]

Oh Hai! I'm a moron.

Yeah, what I meant (and yes, it's 2:15am and I'm way too old to be up this late) is that when someone changes a scum-list that quickly (as I checked before, it was within 2 posts of each other) it seems like the changer of the list is looking to find someone, anyone, to start a bandwagon on. The change in the list of names represented by Nexus throwing a rock.

Dude, I'm tired. leave me alone.

[Xite91]

Ok, so these are the lists.

My suspicions are thus:

Dalt. He's lied, he changed his RVS for no real reason, and he has been quiet since.
Korashk. He totted up the votes twice, for no real reason. Posting them in the thread just adds clutter, and at a RVS, it's even more unnecessary.
LmL. He got very defensive when the wagon rolled around. Since then, he had an argument with Prana which didn't really achieve much.
Prana. Same as LmL. When challenged about his wagonning, he got really defensive.
CA. He didn't take kindly to the wagon. However, not that suspicious.
Xite. I don't find you suspicious, I can see what you're trying to do.
Fitz. Has highlighted suspicions of fitz. Not really suspicious.
Lat. Hasn't posted yet, but is lurking the thread. Suspicious.

This one points out these as suspicious
Dalt
Korashk
LmL
Prana
CA
Lat.

The other two (me and fitz) were chimed off as not suspicious

My list is:

Dalt,
Korashk,
Lat,
CA,
LmL,
Prana,
Everyone else.

They are pretty close in order and it's the same exact people. Although neither of them were clarified to be most scummy to least scummy, I'm assuming the second one is more likely to be, but the first one could be.

Alright, Lateralus, I'll move you down the suspicion list now that you've explained yourself. I just wanted to highlight it to begin with until you had a change to respond.

Dalt,
Korashk,
CA,
LmL,
Prana,
Lat,
Everyone else.

All he did was what he said. Just sayin.
Same exact people on the list, just Lat is lowered

[LoudmouthLee]

He listed CA as not that suspicious, yet is 3rd on his list?

[Xite91]

Oh, ok I missed that part

[Nexus]

I already answered that one, LmL. I reread his posts, after I'd written the "not suspicious" one, and decided he was more suspicious. I'm not doing very well at explaining myself at all.

The reason I haven't unvoted you now is that I assumed that if I did, now I've been challenged, I'd be seen as scum. However, as I'm getting close to being lynched, I'll

unvote

and vote the person who I think is most suspicious once I've reread the thread again.