Scummies Invitational (OVER!!!)

[Incognito]

If we do go by this:

q21 (7) -- Ojanen, mykonian, Empking, populartajo, imaginality, Kinetic, SpyreX

I'm against lynching Ojanen and mykonian. Empking's a meh. The final four, though, are pretty much interchangeable to me.

[Incognito]

Happy birthday, Kinetic lol.

[SpyreX]

...

So, tajo and I are interchangeable for power bus I guess?. Empking is more town than Kinetic meaning you think the whole Kinetic gate was pushing for a mislynch. And imaginality is in there because ?.

Ojanen and myko are town, sure. But so is tajo. Imaginaility and Kinetic give me waaay better vibes than some of the others not there.

[Incognito]

tajo putting his vote on you now can hardly be considered a power bus. You do bring up a decent point though - I can't see why a tajo-scum would vote you while calling me town when my wagon is currently larger than yours. Especially when he's been saying that he hasn't liked things about my play anyway.

I don't have a read on Empking. A no-read lynch is ok with me at this point.

Kinetic I've covered - that said, if either Empking or Kinetic flip scum though, then Kinetic's obviously clear since Kinetic's been at his neck all game.

imaginality has been lurky. I am ok with a lurker lynch on Day 1 too.

Why is tajo town?

[Incognito]

EBWOP: then either Kinetic

or Empking

is obviously clear*

[populartajo]

Unnatural with the image I remember of you, as I said in some of my previous posts. Lets just say that Id expect a player of your level to use the Hoopla questions to scumhunting benefits regardless of Hoopla's alignment.

But you said you didn't even remember playing with me before...

I said in one of my posts that I had an image of you. I had an image of a more reasonable passive guy and not an emotional agressive player.

Now the real question is tajo, why have you been lurking?

Not lurking. Ive been terribly busy. I even asked replacement in another game due to lack of time.

Uhhh, SpyreX, Slicey isn't even in one of those groups that voted for q21. So I don't really get why you a) brought all that up and then b) voted Slicey to begin with. Why not vote someone like Kinetic who's the leading wagon

and

actually fits in one of those q21-voting groups?

Yes. This.

[populartajo]

tajo putting his vote on you now can hardly be considered a power bus. You do bring up a decent point though - I can't see why a tajo-scum would vote you while calling me town when my wagon is currently larger than yours. Especially when he's been saying that he hasn't liked things about my play anyway.

I isolated you before voting Spyrex and I came to the conclusion that I was giving too much weight the image I had from you. Which is even erroneous as you explain in further posts. In the least, Id hate to find a wagon on you when I find you less scummy by far than Spyrex.

Basically I just want Spyrex dead.

[curiouskarmadog]

Updating (re)reading and typing as I go.
Ugh, looks like I need to update form page 8, and these pages are long.

184,

CKD: Explain to me how it wastes a lynch and your argument makes sense. Otherwise it falls on its face. This type of game is unique in that losing a lynch is not as big a set back as in a normal game.

I keep forgetting that we can lynch as many as needed each day. But still, a policy lynch still sucks, a policy vote that leads to pressure, ok, but advocating a policy lynch at this point (page 8) will not provide much information other than, who was on the lynch and who wasn’t. I guess now that we are talking about who was against it and was for policy. There is not a lot more information that can be had at this point. And lets says you policy lynch two people day 1…and both are town…you want to lynch someone because you think they are scum, not because you think a policy lynch is the way to go, or you have the ability to lynch more than one player in a day.

185, Vollkan sums up better what I am trying to say about a policy lynch.

190, 191, OJ, sometimes it is a little hard to understand you. I am not 100% still why you felt Tenchi was town (at this point)

193,

English is my third language, guess it shows sometimes.

Well that explains it.

197,

so at what point if you keep getting the same, do you get suspicious? I am sure he is dying to know.

I don't really expect to get the same over and over again from Empking. I think he's one of those players who needs to be left more to his own devices rather than pressure voted or policy lynched.

My point here was, if he is just left to his own devices, as scum he could ride out the game with little pressure or thought from you…so what is his motivation (as scum) to post anything above enough to keep him from being replaced?

198, general statement on Spy, I have never seen you play so little before, why is that?

203, imagin, promises posting., 206 give a page by page break down of opinions., 208, jumps on biggest wagon (again?)

228, Kinetic puts Q21 at -2

232, after an Emp urging, Spy puts Q21 at -1 (no call for a claim?)

244, OJ bring Q21 to -2

249,
This

Why don't you agree with the SpyreX hate? What's he done that's town-ish?

…my pregnant wife wants me to do chores…soooooo..

Part 2 coming.

[Ojanen]

A quickie for the multiple questions on why I don't hate SpyreX: I once lynched him for stuff including a gut-case on mykonian based on a single line upon replacing to a 30+ page game that wasn't factually all that solid. He was town (and myko was scum ugh). the slicey case totally reminds me of the style of that case. not treating it as a scumtell. inside the small effort he has made, he's made zero effort to look good, quite the opposite, and very little effort to be charming which I would expect to be his trademark survival thing.

---

First thought about the vig claim was to wonder how much sense a vig makes in a game of already multiple lynching possibilities for town every day. Hell if I ever knew anything about balance, though.

Rereading.

[SpyreX]

It wasn't factual but it was RIGHT.

I don't have a read on Empking. A no-read lynch is ok with me at this point.

Kinetic I've covered - that said, if either Empking or Kinetic flip scum though, then Kinetic's obviously clear since Kinetic's been at his neck all game.

See, here's the deal with this and why I brought it up - it runs counter to the other post. Everything about this says Empking is a better lynch than Kinetic based on the meh factor but Empking was the one you were less interested in lynching.

Why is tajo town?

It was a gut thing, mostly. I'll freely admit some paranoia with how the initial "gut" scum read on me which *gasp* was actually part of the town feel is sliding into things like:

- His case on Slicey is COMPLETELY BS (Using same terminology than Incognito, and he thinks Incog is town?) and a lame attempt to fake his town meta. Trust me, if there is someone who can read Spyrex very well is this guy called Tajo.

- Why the hell is Spyrex listening to Empking? WTF?

- Yeah DISINTEREST. Spyrex hates to be scum and he really cant fake his shiny-lulz meta to this game full of superstars.

And the meta angle always, always, always bothers me. Gut scum read? Sure. Bringing that plastic wobbly sword with META on the hilt? Ehhh. Real ehh.

If there was a lot more time it'd be worth looking farther in. A slicey scum flip would be interesting as well. As it sits though? Not a d1 lynch by any measure.

[Hoopla]

First thought about the vig claim was to wonder how much sense a vig makes in a game of already multiple lynching possibilities for town every day. Hell if I ever knew anything about balance, though.

Rereading.

That's exactly what I was thinking. I don't think a 3rd party role exists in this set-up and I have seen Patrick use a 2-shot Vig before, so that gives it some credit as a claim. And it is provable too, so it's not a big deal leaving q21 alive.

Can I have my Incognito lynch now?

[curiouskarmadog]

Updating (re)reading and typing as I go.
Ok, finishing I hope, from post 249

250-256, Incog tussles with Mykon and hoopla a bit.

257,

However, I've been pretty clear. I don't like Tenchi. I don't like Slicey. If I thought with a little energon and a lot of luck I could swing this q21 that way I would. However, q21 isn't a

bad

lynch and the scatterplot on it will be interesting to parse.

fell off Spy's scum list for some unknown reason, maybe because my wagon died down.

258, Q21 claims a two shot vig…knew that wagon was scum laden.

260,

@ pop, for the record pop, I wasn’t disinterested when I made the post about wanting to hear other’s cases, however after that I got super busy…does that affect my “rating” on your scale?

Definitely so because its the basis of my read on you. Why did you ask then these questions instead of reading the thread?

I dont get why I am in your scum reads? Explain pluz.

First part is a silly question…one is a 5 minute commitment, the other an hour…..so now that I told you I wasn’t disinterested (just busy) I am scummy now correct? Why?

In reference to the last question…gut. I mean it is day one, but I am getting some vibes from you that you don’t want to splash too much lest the little fishes will know you are coming. This isn’t the pop I know. I also don’t think the pop I know will ask silly questions for the sake of questions.

261,

In other news Spyrex is scum. And after an iso of Incog, I think he is prob town.

of course, that being said, I agree with this statement...soooo..(Shrug)..or did.

272,

Don't have much time, q21 lost steam and don't have much of a back up lynch at this time. I can't read right now to find something until at least the 11th, but I'm getting mixed feelings about Pop and Imagine right now. However, neither have votes on them right now. I'm going to place mine on imaginality right now just to see if there is anyone else seeing what I see, but I'll try to be around to change it to get a lynch if needed.

unvote; vote: imaginality

I also agree with this vote and reasoning....

283, this

First thought about the vig claim was to wonder how much sense a vig makes in a game of already multiple lynching possibilities for town every day. Hell if I ever knew anything about balance, though.

Along with pop’s “who claims protown” has me worried about the claim. It is speculation though, but that is giving a lot of power to the town. But claim aside, I don’t think q21 was scum. At the very least, the claim is provable.

After that read, I would have no problem lynching imaginality or Spy…maybe pop.

Unvote, vote imaginality

I will jump on the Spy lynch if the vote is needed.

[vollkan]

vollkan, what's your read of Kmd?

Neutral to somewhat scummy. I give a range because while I think his case on me is crap, I'm frankly undecided as to whether it is scummy-crap or tunnel-vision-townie-crap.

For those of you who didn't catch it, or *gasp* didn't read it. My Role is: 2-shot protown vig.

Claim is believable; but one question: why the massive wall of flavour?

unvote vote vollkan

Sorry Q21. That post was made to get a lynch soon (though it asked for you to post something to change things, like a claim, well before deadline), but I don't want to lynch you now. The role would make sense, I think, as the mod can't really determine how many nights there are, and a 2 shot vig gives him some control over that.

it is quite late now, and the above vote is purely gut, but my vote is certainly not going to support a lynch on: spyrex, empking, tenchi.

By rough lookover, you've had two main gripes with me:
1. RVS thing (by no means you exclusively)
2. The "me not being important enough" thing

I've been over the RVS issue again and again now. To get somewhat theoretical, this hits on one of the reasons I hate gut. I can see why, at a psychological/emotional level my RVS stance appears at first blush strange (Vollkan says he doesn't like RVS, but also RVs?), but I've explained my thinking and there is no inconsistency. I'm concerned that that may not be able to overcome an instinctual reaction.

On the second of the points above, I have already said that the period of my inactivity was one of V/LA (which I referenced in thread). I've given my opinion on every major development. And as an aside, your argument seems to assume that I have a meta for being "more important" as town, which I think is at the very latest untrue and, I suspect, may even be the inverse of reality.

Disinterested Spyrex is Scum Spyrex

I've only played with SpyreX once before. He was town then and I remember coming out of the game with a really positive impression of him. Do you have meta-evidence to support this?

Don't have much time, q21 lost steam and don't have much of a back up lynch at this time. I can't read right now to find something until at least the 11th, but I'm getting mixed feelings about Pop and Imagine right now. However, neither have votes on them right now. I'm going to place mine on imaginality right now just to see if there is anyone else seeing what I see, but I'll try to be around to change it to get a lynch if needed.

unvote; vote: imaginality

I also agree with this vote and reasoning....

What reasoning? Nothing in that explains why imaginality is a good lynch

[q21]

FTR, Q21 (who is obviously telling the truth in the killing department, not so sure about the alignment) needs to shoot Kinetic. TIA.

Personally I'd rather lynch Kinetic. He wasted vast chunks of the day trying to get Empking policy lynched. That expenditure of time and space is a significant portion of the reason that we're in this deadline rush for a lynch. Yes, I know the other significant portion of the reason is my inactivity, difference is that I didn't have a choice in that.

I also dislike his vote on Imaginality... why? What did you see? What is giving you those mixed feelings?

Unvote, Vote Kinetic.

If he doesn't get lynched I will take pop's suggestion under advisement - along with the suggestions for nightkills of anyone else.

[Mr. Flay]

Votecount

vollkan (2) -- Kmd4390, mykonian
Kinetic (3) -- vollkan, Slicey, q21
q21 (2) -- Empking, imaginality
Incognito (2) -- Hoopla, Ojanen
Hoopla (1) -- Tenchi
SpyreX (2) -- Incognito, populartajo
Slicey (1) - SpyreX
imaginality (2) - Kinetic, curiouskarmadog

Not voting -- nobody!

15 alive, 8 to lynch. Day 1 ends on August the 10th at 11 pm GMT.

(approx. 29 hours)

[mykonian]

people who I could vote: Vollkan, Incognito, CKD. Not in any particular order. On CKD it is my points against him from some time ago, and there is a post coming (2 hours from now, I hope) which explains why the other two might be possible lynch candidates. I have no idea's about imaginality, but I don't see a spyrex-lynch working right now.

[Hoopla]

Your vollkan lynch isn't going to happen myko. Jump on the Incog wagon and make your vote count. Wanting a q21 lynch instead isn't an excuse now.

[SpyreX]

Volkan doesn't make sense for a lynch at the mo'. However, neither does incog. Of those 3 it'd be CKD by a margin.

[Hoopla]

Volkan doesn't make sense for a lynch at the mo'. However, neither does incog. Of those 3 it'd be CKD by a margin.

CKD is pretty obvious lurky, clueless townie. I think the tell Ojanen picked up of him being confused at the start of the game is genuine, and something that wouldn't have happened if he had a QT talking session before the game. I've seen CKD lynched Day 1 as town for similar play - it feels like a mistake.

[SpyreX]

Well we could hold hands and lynch Tenchi? That'd be pretty sweet.

[Hoopla]

Well we could hold hands and lynch Tenchi? That'd be pretty sweet.

Nah he's town too. But I will still hold hands.

[SpyreX]

I'll always hold hands. <3

vollkan (2) -- Kmd4390, mykonian
Kinetic (3) -- vollkan, Slicey, q21
q21 (2) -- Empking, imaginality
Incognito (2) -- Hoopla, Ojanen
Hoopla (1) -- Tenchi
SpyreX (2) -- Incognito, populartajo
Slicey (1) - SpyreX
imaginality (2) - Kinetic, curiouskarmadog

It really dawned on me how ridiculous this is. We've got about 30 hours to turn this into something useful.

And with q21's claim the only one I REALLY want to lynch out of that whole list is Slicey. Sigh.

[Empking]

unvote
vote kinetic

[SpyreX]

OR THIS ABOVE.

Seriously can we do this I can make lots of arguments however you want but if I can't have Slicey and or Tenchi I'd sure eat an empking.

Unvote, Vote: Empking

[mykonian]

a vollkan lynch is never going to happen, this way.

---

My problems with vollkan and incog are in a way similar. I feel they are making it themselves too easy, and they would be capable of better scumhunting.

vollkan starts slow, with some questions about the questions Hoopla asked, a random vote, and some theory talk about that. (iso 0, 2, 3 and 5). iso 2 is an example of using a question to defend one self against an accusation and basically not saying anything with it. We see this repeated in iso 4:

I can't see your point at all.

You seem to be assuming, without any apparent basis, that because I commented on something non-RV-related, it thereby became illegitimate to RV. But, at a point in time when I hadn't any actual suspicion formed and when there was nothing preventing me from RVing (ie. Hoopla's survey occurring was not incompatible with RVS also occuring), it was perfectly legitimate for me to RV as well as engage with Hoopla's survey. Sure, my RV will be (and, in hindsight, was since RV stage has now passed, Unvote, ) ineffective, but you've failed to explain at all why that is relevant.

Or, to condense everything down into a simple question: In one sentence, what did I do that was scummy?

the question used to stall and defend.

The keyword in this quote is "legitimate". Vollkan cares about if he

should be allowed to do

, not if it makes sense, or if it helps town forward.


In iso 5 we have a lot of defense, and Vollkan his first "scumhunting", when he votes Kinetic (for quoting a part of a post):

and here vollkan stops

. He never goes off Kinetic, never looks

at anyone else

. With post 7, vollkan shows what he is capable off, as he goes all out on Kinetic's "policy lynch-strategy". This is EASY. Everybody has been taught policy lynches are bad, and vollkan simply makes a wall of text about it.

---

Conclusion

: Vollkan takes the easy way. He seems to be scumhunting, but only attacks Kinetic, and writes out a single point to a wall of text: it seems he is doing a lot, but he isn't.

Kinetic is town, and the victim of scum needing to make a case. His policy lynch- strategy wasn't clever, but mostly made him an easy target.


Next post: incognito.