/Invitational 11: Pick your Poison 5 (Game Over)

[Patrick]

Votecount

Janitor (5) -- SpyreX, Kmd4390, DrippingGoofball, Ellibereth, Papa Zito
Rolecop (1) -- ooba
Roleblocker (6) -- Kmd4390, Papa Zito, ooba, SpyreX, Amished, VasudeVa
Assassin (4) -- VasudeVa, Rhinox, Amished, Slicey

20 alive, 11 votes to choose.

[Hoopla]

I am not a Hider, either.

[ekiM]

Meh.

I am not a Hider.

2 claims: The best then is rolecop and assassin I think.. way less likely to be useful to scum when they're looking for 2/14 players rather than 4/16.
1 claim: Ehh, I guess we don't give a roleblocker then, which sucks a bit. In which case it's janitor/assassin. Unless we feel like letting our hider just die N1.
0 claims: Roleblocker and... something. Someone should round up the arguments for Janitor vs. Assassin there.

[Zorblag]

Troll no be a hider.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[VasudeVa]

Not a hider

[Herodotus]

Wasn't it 9-9 on the hider claim?
But I suppose time is important, so if we're going to do this, we shoud get it done.

I'm not a hider.

[SpyreX]

I am not a hider

[Elmo]

Fair enough, I guess - I don't think it's strictly best, but I'm pretty sure it's not outright awful either. Honestly, I'd prefer for people to have spent more time on what to give the scum (shrug)

Troll, I assumed the hider would announce their targets before hiding each night, so we knew what was going on. If we give out the RB, the mafia can just block them when they target a mafioso, and falsely confirm someone, so we wouldn't be able to trust the 'confirmed' innocents. If not, then I'm not sure how we know who we're supposed to be confirming. I also think using a RB to kill the hider is stronger than you, but the above seems a bigger deal to me?

I'm worried about the very real possibility of there being no Hiders, and scum knowing this, deciding to claim it.

I guess this is a bit nasty; a tracker would help. I haven't worked through it, but the selection of roles given out if we have no tracker and no hider might be kinda strong in combination? Don't like this much, though it's nontrivial to fakeclaim hider if they're told to target a mafioso.

I am not a hider

.

Unless we get a hider claim soon, I'm probably going to vote RB & Assassin because time's getting quite short. Zorblag, if we got 0 or 1 hider claims, what power roles would you advocate giving out?

[ooba]

Not a Hider

[zoraster]

not a hider

[Slicey]

not a hider.

[populartajo]

I suppose I support the hider claim.

@Tajo: I'm doubtful of the benefits to the question in 238. The disadvantage I see is that scum could pick their fakeclaims more convincingly if they know what the townies expect the PR's to be.

I dont get this. Could your rephrase/example/etc?

Im not a hider.

[Rhinox]

Remaining:
1). Amished
2). DrippingGoofball
4). Ellibereth
8). Kmd4390
10). My Milked Eek
12). Papa Zito
13). Plumegranate

Not Hider:
3). ekiM x
5). Elmo x
6). Herodotus x
7). Hoopla x
9). mith x
11). ooba x
14). populartajo x
15). Rhinox x
16). Slicey x
17). SpyreX x
18). VasudeVa x
19). zoraster x
20). Zorblag x

[Plumegranate]

Not a Hider

.

I

still

don't like Assassin, but I have a feeling I might be outnumbered on that one.

[Amished]

Not a hider

[Herodotus]

I suppose I support the hider claim.

@Tajo: I'm doubtful of the benefits to the question in 238. The disadvantage I see is that scum could pick their fakeclaims more convincingly if they know what the townies expect the PR's to be.

I dont get this. Could your rephrase/example/etc?

Yes.

Suppose the scum gave out 2 of role A, and 2 of role B. Or maybe 1 of role D, etc.
Then suppose most of the townies say "if I were scum, I'd have given 1 (or 2) of role C."
Then when the scum are deciding on fakeclaims, one of them claims role C.
It's not a huge difference, but I'd think they might be slightly more likely to be able to mislead the town if they know that everyone is expecting role C to appear.
On the other hand, I don't see what there is to gain by the hypothetical selection.

[DrippingGoofball]

I AM a hider.

[Elmo]

The plot thickens. A mass unvote of roleblocker is probably necessary at this point? Unless we can't get enough votes on the other options, heh. I would not hesitate to use a single RB to kill a single hider if there were no protective roles, but on consideration I think that would require the mafia to have given out a hider and either 2 trackers & vig or tracker & 2 vigs.. I would be reticent to do that as scum, trackers ain't cops but I wouldn't willingly double up on the only info role when I could give out something like a weak doc, and two vigs is dangerous for obvious reasons.

Roleblocking the hider without killing seems a bigger deal. I can't think of a way round that. The appeal of the hider claim, to me, is in large part due to generating confirmed innocents. I think it's much stronger without giving out the RB. Maybe I am just missing something.

Please note that we have about

19 & change hours until deadline

, and no hammer by deadline means random picks.

As such, I will

vote

:

Assassin

which I feel quite happy with and

vote

:

Janitor

which I'm dubious about (it's hard to evaluate) but is pound-for-pound probably better than rolecop. I may be on again before I leave about 7 hours before deadline, but no promises.

I

still

don't like Assassin, but I have a feeling I might be outnumbered on that one.

I can't really find an argument from you in ISO; clearly if the assassin lands the shots, it's bad, but the meat of the argument for it is that it's fairly hard for that to happen. I think we're out of time, though :\

[Rhinox]

vote: Janitor

So my two votes are for janitor and assassin, whether we get another hider claim or not. I argued from the beginning that the power in a hider is confirming innocents, so it would be pretty pointless giving a RB.

[Patrick]

Votecount

Janitor (7) -- SpyreX, Kmd4390, DrippingGoofball, Ellibereth, Papa Zito, Elmo, Rhinox
Rolecop (1) -- ooba
Roleblocker (6) -- Kmd4390, Papa Zito, ooba, SpyreX, Amished, VasudeVa
Assassin (5) -- VasudeVa, Rhinox, Amished, Slicey, Elmo

20 alive, 11 votes to choose.

Deadline 11th of August at 11 am GMT. Elmo and I are setting off tomorrow; Mr Flay will be keeping an eye on the game, and randomising anything that wasn't picked at deadline. If you do pick both choices before deadline, feel free to start day 1 straight away, and scum feel free to start choosing who gets which role straight away.

[mith]

In the case of a second claim, Rolecop gets weaker, but so does Assassin, so I think Janitor/Assassin is the play in both cases. I'll go ahead and vote (and will be on frequently enough to change my vote if I have some flash of insight or if the vote is going another way and it's necessary to reach 11).

Vote: Janitor
Vote: Assassin

[ekiM]

VOTE: Janitor
VOTE: Assassin

[zoraster]

Why jan over role cop? Either way

Vote: Assassin

[ekiM]

Rolecop + Assassin seems pretty bad. They'd likely get both shots off at some point.

[Mr. Flay]

Mr Flay will be keeping an eye on the game

That'll be Mr

.

Flay, actually. I don't trust that other bugger.

(just posting to get this game on my threadlist)