/Invitational 11: Pick your Poison 5 (Game Over)

[Patrick]

Votecount

Janitor (9) -- SpyreX, Kmd4390, DrippingGoofball, Ellibereth, Papa Zito, Elmo, Rhinox, mith, ekiM
Rolecop (1) -- ooba
Roleblocker (6) -- Kmd4390, Papa Zito, ooba, SpyreX, Amished, VasudeVa
Assassin (8) -- VasudeVa, Rhinox, Amished, Slicey, Elmo, mith, ekiM, zoraster

20 alive, 11 votes to choose.

Thanks to Mr dot Flay for his help.

[Herodotus]

I still don't like the janitor. Suppose DGB is telling the truth, but later one of the scum claims tracker and contradicts her. We lynch one of them, and the result is covered. Then we are uncertain about the other, and uncertain about DGB's results, as long as the other is alive and unconfirmed.

Assuming DGB is telling the truth, the scum now have a field of 15 townies of whom 3 could be assassin targets. A role cop would allow them one shot each day to look for PR's. The field will likely narrow, but whenever the scum hit a PR with their regular NK, the number of targets decreases. There's a good chance that either the assassin or rolecop is lynched, or we are at LYLO, before they uncover any PR's via the rolecop.
So I'm okay with the Rolecop + Assassin combination, unless there's a stronger argument against it.

vote: assassin
vote: rolecop

[mith]

One problem with giving the Rolecop is in the case where DGB is the only Hider claim and is lying. The claim is still testable by Vigilante, but not by Tracker because the scum can just give the Rolecop power to DGB. They could do that with the Assassin too, but the Assassin only has two shots.

If DGB is telling the truth and is countered by a Tracker, worst case is we lynch them both - and scum can already force a 1:1 trade by fake claiming now. Don't want to spell out why it's a bad idea for scum in the not-worst-case (in case they are considering doing it), but they are certainly better making the trade now if DGB is legit and they want to get rid of her.

[Zorblag]

@mith, the rolecop be a day rolecop. Any trackers no should see them as them track night actions. Actually, the janitor be a day action also for what that matters.

If we no want to go with the roleblocker (and Troll can live with that especially as it seems likely that we no will have finished the claim before the day ends) then the janitor and rolccop probably be what Troll would recommend.

Power roles will tend to be outted over the course of the game regardless of what roles we give scum (as they get run up to lynch or need to reveal information to help the town.) The assassin will likely give the scum at least one extra kill and it if them do it will definitely be a power role. The role cop on the other hand starts with fairly slim odds of finding anyone at the start when them would be most helpful and then looses power as roles come out anyhow. If them do succeed then scum will potentially get a chance to kill a power role early but at least them no will gain extra kills of members of the town as them do it. The mafia already have some chance of killing town power roles at night anyhow so it be somewhat hard to estimate the increase in efficiency them would gain.

In any case, Troll no fears the rolecop as much as many seem to. Troll also no has the energy to fight about this one so Troll will simply show what Troll perfers with Troll's vote. Well, and Troll will say that the the assassin and rolecop seems like a particularly poor combination as them do work well together. Having said that, Troll can do something to make that combination less likely to occur.

vote: rolecop

vote: janitor

That should put the janitor at L-1 Troll believes.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Amished]

Unvote
Vote: Rolecop
Vote: Janitor

What troll said. Especially since if DGB is telling the truth the scum only have 3 PR's to look for and still have to NK them as their only choice.

[mith]

Bleh, of course... I keep forgetting the "Day" part of the Rolecop.

In that case: Giving Rolecop/Janitor means a single Hider claim is fully testable by both Vigilantes and Trackers. However, the power role kills due to a Day Rolecop come a night earlier than they would for a Night Rolecop, and I was already leaning toward the Assassin being the weaker of the two. Will unvote so Assassin doesn't get hammered while I'm thinking about it, but I'm still leaning that way.

Unvote: Assassin

[ooba]

Hmm. Surprising - I did not expect a Hider claim. Has everyone done the Hider\No-Hider claim?

Favor rolecop over assassin .. Keeps options of massclaiming open ..

[Patrick]

Janitor has been given to the mafia. I reset anyone who still has two votes out:

Rolecop (2) -- Zorblag, Amished
Roleblocker (3) -- Kmd4390, Papa Zito, SpyreX
Assassin (5) -- Rhinox, Slicey, Elmo, ekiM, zoraster

20 alive, 11 votes to choose.

[ekiM]

Ellibereth, Kmd4390, My Milked Eek, and Papa Zito haven't claimed yet.Ellibereth is V/LA. We just hammered a role without waiting for all claims. Blehh.

[Zorblag]

@ekiM, with Ellibereth V/LA till after the deadline we no were going to finish the claim before choosing anyhow. It also seems somewhat silly to Troll for you to complain that a choice you put at L-2 last page just got hammered.

In any case, roleblocker no makes sense to pick at this point and assassin/roleblocker be a poor combination to give scum. Jailkeeper was a good choice.

Troll still prefers rolecop to assassin for the reasons that Troll went over as well as what others have said since but as long as we no pick roleblocker at this point Troll can live with where we will end Day 0.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[ooba]

Vote: Rolecop

[DrippingGoofball]

Wo wo wo

Before you all get excited and change your choices, I'm not actually a hider.

TOWNIES: expected to speculate what role the scum might have picked given the presence of one hider.
SCUM: expected to be overly skeptical because they know I'm making it up.

Enjoy gambit #1!

[Hoopla]

lol.

and now we have locked in janitor. genius.

[ekiM]

UNVOTE:

[DrippingGoofball]

Elmo is definitely town. He has no clue that I may be faking this, he's taking me at my word, and laboring the intellectual exercise of re-figuring the game.

mith's first post is OK, but his second post smells a little more of informed minority. In post #277, he seems rather cocky about the possibility that I may be lying. Also, the fact that the first post is OK, and the second suspicious, shows that his mental process followed two distinct steps...

ekiM's posts are rather cryptic and worrisome. It's like he's working to keep a cool head in the face of something he doesn't expect... a fakeclaiming townie, perhaps?

Herodotus's post rings townie bells.

Troll is town. He's all innocence and trollish bad odor of sincerity.

Amished's reaction is neutral - he's keeping the cards close to his chest.

Ooba... mmm... I'm not sure that a scumbag would come right out and declare my hider claim "unexpected" as this would be rather transparent... but you never know.

Hoopla... I like how she kept a low profile until I de-fakeclaimed. Then pounced.

[Hoopla]

It was pretty obvious you were faking.

[DrippingGoofball]

It was pretty obvious you were faking.

Was it?

How come you didn't say anything, and waited until I was done?

[Hoopla]

Because you wouldn't have got your precious information from your gambit.

[Rhinox]

Seeing as you just got a role locked in that a number of players (myself included) only voted for based on the pretense that a hider exists, I a bit muffed about it. In fact, I'm just going to tunnel on you until one of us is dead based on the idea that this was a scum gambit designed to influence which roles the town gave to scum.

[DrippingGoofball]

Because you wouldn't have got your precious information from your gambit.

So you knew I was fakeclaiming town? ^5

[ekiM]

We should wait for as many of Kmd4390, My Milked Eek, and Papa Zito as possible to claim. If no hiders, roleblocker. Otherwise assassin.

@mod: can you prod KMD and Papa Zito please? It has been at least 48 hours for the two of them.

Done. -Flay

[DrippingGoofball]

Seeing as you just got a role locked in that a number of players (myself included) only voted for based on the pretense that a hider exists, I a bit muffed about it. In fact, I'm just going to tunnel on you until one of us is dead based on the idea that this was a scum gambit designed to influence which roles the town gave to scum.

I didn't expeect such a fast hammer, but in any event, Janitor is harmless (IMO). Breathe.

[DrippingGoofball]

We should wait for as many of Kmd4390, My Milked Eek, and Papa Zito as possible to claim. If no hiders, roleblocker. Otherwise assassin.

And if some don't show up in time??? What's the backup plan? Are we assuming no hiders?

[Rhinox]

I didn't expeect such a fast hammer, but in any event, Janitor is harmless (IMO). Breathe.

Didn't expect a fast hammer? deadline is half a day away, people were going to make a decision either way to ensure that a choice is made. It doesn't matter how harmful or hamless a role is - just because you didn't spend 3 weeks strategizing and searching for the optimal role allotments doesn't mean others are happy seeing all that strategy pissed away.

unvote

Let the other role get picked randomly for all I care at this point.

[mith]

(Discussion on both of these can wait until day 1 is underway, but: Hoopla has been consistently anti-Janitor, yet while she claims to have thought DGB was obviously fake-claiming she remained silent while the Janitor was locked in. DrippingGoofball seems awfully certain that we have no actual Hiders, given that four players haven't claimed.)

Hopefully, some/all of the unclaimed will show up. I suggest we go ahead and get Roleblocker close to hammer, decide on a cutoff time for waiting on that based on how many players can definitely be online [some amount of time before deadline], and hammer at the cutoff time if nothing has changed. It should go without saying (but I'll say it anyway) that if there's a Hider among the unclaimed who doesn't claim in time, keep that to yourself.

Rhinox: While I am annoyed about DGB's play (and really, we all should've known what we were getting into when we made our preference lists) sulking about it and giving up out of frustration is just as bad; at least she's

trying

to catch scum if she's innocent.

I'll be setting my alarm for whatever cutoff time is decided on, so I'll be around to switch if needed.

Vote: Roleblocker