Mini #1022- PokeUPick(Game Over)

[mikeburnfire]

/confirm

[mikeburnfire]

You guys are stupid. Stop voting esp, and let me read this game.

[mikeburnfire]

First of all, I agree that a flavor claim might help, since it appears the setup was created after the roles were given. However, it has been reckless to start claiming things when half the town has yet to check in on Day 1. It's exceptionally reckless that some players have already hinted or blatantly described their role. I'm going to comment on the game thus far by picking out what I got from player's posts and commenting as I go.

Page 2:
Prox: Flavor claim? Hey guys, what is your opinion of millers?
bv: flavor claim yes.
Prox: Flavor claim yes.
xite: flavor claim yes. I have powerrole
jimfinn: flavor claim yes.

(I like jimfinn's response, because he actually gives a good reason why, and it is the same reason I was thinking)

nichol: flavor claim maybe not
gandalf: flavor claim yes
xite: flavor claim yes. again. I still have powerrole
gandalf: go ahead and role claim, xite.

(Firstly, xite should have waited until all flavor claims were done. Secondly, gandalf is dead wrong with the line "If you're really important, I'm sure we have a doc". It's the opposite way around.)

xite: I AM WATERTYPE. I AM VIGILANTE
bv: I AM EEVEE
nicol:

(This is a post in which he says vigs should not be directed because scum can influence the kills. While it's fine and dandy to believe a vig should make the kill alone, the reasoning nicol gave is crap. It's like saying "Oh, we shouldn't lynch people because lynches can be influenced by scum")

gandalf: I AM WIGGLYTUFF
nicol:

(This is a post in which he points out lurkers, even though the game has only been active for about 6 hours)

prox: I AM SCYTHER. ALSO, I'M KIND OF A MILLER. vote:nicol for pointing out lurkers
xite: vote:prox for pointing out that nicol was pointing out lurkers
switz: I AM ALSO AN EEVEE.

(In this post, switz tries to throw suspicion on xite, even though his reasoning is terrible)

page 3:
gandalf: claim now nicol

(I don't like this post. nicol obviously feels uneasy about powerroles getting outed by their flavor. Gandalf just says "Do it anyway")

jimfinn: I AM SNEASEL
prox: too much claiming going on!
nicol: I AM GENGAR
prox: why didn't you claim earlier?

(Make up your mind, prox)

gandalf: yeah, why didn't you claim ealier?

(Because he felt that flavor claiming wasn't a good idea, you idiots)

nicol: I didn't feel that flavor claiming was a good idea, and I wanted more input.
prox: that's weak! also xite is basically confirmed town!

(Bullcrap)

espeo: I AM MAGICARP SALESMAN. vote:gandalf
nicol: where's the flavor claim?
xite: vote:gandalf for skimming
espeo: yep, gandalf is definitely scum
prox: Cases should be posted
nicol: What's your case espeo?
gandalf: What's your case espeo?

(RAWRK Polly want a cracker!)

espeo: I don't have to tell you. votes without reason are helpful. I have a reason but I won't tell you why yet.
nicol: Tell us. vote:espeo
gandalf: vote:Espeo

(At this point, I think that espeo needs to present his case, as his vote lacks substance but he acts like he's so sure. However, I'm getting a lot worse vibes from gandalf. His posts so far are either really bad, or just repeating what somebody had previously said)

Page 4
xite: tell us. vote:espeo
prox: tell us. vote: espeo

So, as it stands, I think prox is too inconsistent and gandalf is playing it too safe. I'm going to tentatively

VOTE: GANDALF

because he has earned it in my eyes. But I would indeed like espeo to make a case, or shove it.

Flavor claim withheld until other player show up.

[mikeburnfire]

I'm Office Jenny.

[mikeburnfire]

That's not my claim. I was giving an example of how a flavor claim can lead into a role claim. Gandalf has no way of knowing that a player's flavor won't hint at their powers.

My summary was not terrible. Of course things are going to be lost when I cut a rambling paragraph down to a sentence or two. That's why it's called a damn summary. These are my abridged notes, and if you think I've 'misrepped' you somewhere, you can point it out. I was just giving a quick overview of how the general mood was turning, and my personal thoughts at the time.

[mikeburnfire]

First of all, if the mod allowed somebody to be "Watertype", then two eevee's doesn't phase me.

Secondly, I must repeat myself. If you think a player has been 'misrepped', then point out where. You can't just say that I was wrong, then not say why. If you're going to get your panties in a bunch, then ignore the summary and only pay heed to the bolded words.

[mikeburnfire]

The bolded parts are, indeed, my interpretation of the posts. You keep saying that I've misrepresented people, but you don't cite any examples. I can only assume that you're full of crap.

[mikeburnfire]

Nobody claimed espeon. Do not confuse Espeonage, who has claimed Magicarp Salesman.

Still waiting for kyle to appear.

[mikeburnfire]

MBF: You seem to have some contradictory opinions on nameclaiming. You initially say claiming might help because roles were determined after names were sent in, but have since chosen not to give out your own role name and have stated that you think claiming could be a problem because it could out power roles (a la Officer Jenny). Which is it? If it's the former, what is your role, and if it's the latter, why did you change your mind?

I said that name claiming might help because I've seen flavor claims break a game before. I replaced into a Futurama-themed game, where the protagonist flavor-claims were pro-town roles, and the bad guy flavor-claims were mafia. If something similar happened here, then not only could a bad guy role be exposed by a Team Rocket flavor claim, but also a cop-type role could be assigned on a cop-type flavor claim. It's a risk I'm willing to take. And while I don't think my role can be determined from my flavor, I'm not going to give it until we're all here.

Espeonage is probably not scum. The wagon on him grew too fast.

That's how I felt as well. Although now I'm preparing to jump on it myself if he doesn't start playing seriously.

Mod: Can we get a Milktank-prod on kyle? He's being awefully Snorlax here.

[mikeburnfire]

Responding to prod. Post forthcoming.

[mikeburnfire]

Espeonage is probably not scum. The wagon on him grew too fast.

That's how I felt as well. Although now I'm preparing to jump on it myself if he doesn't start playing seriously.

Again, you mean the wagon of like, 3 people? How is that too fast in a few pages?

Simply because it was easy to attack him, and a lot of the votes were "Oh yeah me too" votes.

If I need that person lynched cause I am sure

I am scum

I will put more analysis stuff.

0.o
HMM?

I thouched the mousepad with kmy hand and it switched words.
That should read.
If I need that person lynched cause I am sure he is scum I will put more analysis.

I can understand if you mistakenly typed the wrong words, but I'm going to call bullshit here. You're saying that accidentally nudging the mousepad changed "He is" to "I am"? How in the world would that work?

heavy FOS vezokpiraka

drmyshottyizsik replaces Kyle99. Welcome him!

Welcome, Drmy.

@Switz: I enjoyed your large post, which really was just a large expansion on my earlier reasoning against Gandalf. It is a strong case, I must admit, and I would enjoy taking him out, if only for curiousity's sake. However, I also see cases on other player and would like to pursue them, and also I'd like to clear out some of these "meh, I won't make a case" players.

That case is kind of hilarious. By taking my posts out of context, you've managed to twist them to sound scummy. I'll show you exactly why in the morning, I've got to eat and go to bed now. And by the way, I believe MBF is 100% town. I just don't like his summary.

I'm leaving my vote on you. Firstly, since his post was mostly a wordier version of my argument, and you said I had a "semblance" of a case, why is Switz's case deceitful? Also, how are you 100% sure I'm town. If you are a cop with an innocent on me, you're screwing it up- you're supposed to act like a townie and only make statements like this if I'm close to lynch. If you aren't a cop, then there's no way to know for SURE that I'm town, is there? I see this as blatant buddying-up.

@Xite
How telling, that you would so readily come to Gandalf's defense. You actually spent time to tear down Switz's case on Gandalf, and really don't seem to give any consideration to the possibility that Gandalf is actually scum. If we lynch Gandalf and he turns up scum, I will look at you next.

@ prox
You've essentially claimed a miller-like role, so you shouldn't be surprised when we scrutinize you. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, because maybe you're a power role who fake-claimed this to avoid mafia targetting. Or maybe you've legitimately got a power that redirects investigations. Maybe you don't have the full details yourself. Whatever the case is, I don't want to inquire any further. But you've already made your soft-claim, and you've been hinting it since your first post. That's suspicious, and I don't like it. I might press this issue later, but for now I think it would be in our best interests to not talk about this claim, and see if you're still alive in a few days. Obviously I would recommend that power roles not target you, but maybe that's what you want.

vezokpiraka - You're inaction bothers me. If Gandalf wasn't so suspicious, I'd go after you. WHY are you voting Prox, WHY did you vote gandalf, and WHY are you pretending your mixup was your computer's fault?
jimfinn - You give me no bad vibes yet, but we're not lynching Xite today. Move your vote.
NicolBolas - Your posts seem to blend into the background with me, so I went back and did an ISO on you. It seems that I'm repeating a lot of what you said already. No questions for you.
Espeonage - You racked up a lot of negative stigma by voting gandalf without actually giving a reason. Your more recent posts have been better, but you're still on the scummy side of my radar and you'll have to work hard to prove to me that you're not just coasting. Right now it only seems like you're riding the Gandalf-bandwagon, of which multiple players have already made better cases.
gandalf5166 - I think you're scum. See my above, and previous posts why if you are unaware.
drmyshottyizsik - I think you're reaction to jim was over the top, but I'll let it slide because of your meds. It's perfectly reasonable to be suspicious of Xite, as his role is easy for a Serial Killer to claim, and if jim believe that he's not doing enough scumhunting, then he should indeed call him on it.
Prox - See above. Nothing else much to say about you; got a neutral read.
bv310 - You need to post more, but I like what you roused from Prox.
Jarti - You call people out when they don't make their posts quickly, but you've barely done anything all game. All you did was say that one of Switz's posts made you uncomfortable, and now you're hounding him. Either play the game or replace out.
Xite91 - You made a good case against gandalf, but not much else. I like the cut of your jib though.
Switz - We'll see what to make of you in due time.
mikeburnfire - Keep being awesome.

[mikeburnfire]

Sorry, I switched your names around.

Switz - You made a good case against gandalf, but not much else. I like the cut of your jib though.
Xite91 - We'll see what to make of you in due time.

If I recall correctly, Espeonage said "No case right now", and racked up some fast votes, which were not meant for pressure but legitimate votes. It certainly felt like a speedlynch was in the works.

[mikeburnfire]

This is probably the most frustrating game I've played to date. Instead of players answering my questions and playing with logic, we've had a bunch of role claims, a handful of role hinting, players hopping on bandwagons without giving reasons, players inciting bandwagons without giving reasons, and meta-attacking like crazy. I'm currently very busy IRL, so I'm not going to waste my time making big posts if nobody's going to read them. Instead, I'll make toothpick comments on what I see until this insanity dies down.

The Lightning Rod claim is strange, but theoretically, if we have a doctor then we break this game. Drmy draws all night actions, rendering all mafia impotent for killing. This depends on if Drmy is telling the truth, and we have a doctor that can protect from multiple kills at once. Since Drmy has, essentially, a provable role, we shouldn't kill him today. If tonight is completely silent, then we will know that he's telling the truth. Even if he's scum-lightning_rod he'll be forced to neuter the mafia each night until such a point as we decide to lynch him.

Even though I think gandalf is still good chance of scum (the way he is attacking as many people as possible seems desperate to me), I am going to unvote him simply on the principle that Jarti's vote was a bit weak and Espeonage has done nothing credible at all yet.

unvote gandalf

[mikeburnfire]

MBF's "heavy FOS" on Vezo is just wrong. First of all, what Vezo said he did to his post is not that improbable; I believe it can be done on accident very easily when you're writing in Microsoft Word, and it could have easily been a Freudian slip of sorts.

How would Microsoft Word make that kind of error? I believe it is the latter: that it was indeed a Freudian slip, and that Vezo lied about it.

And, as I say above, I disagree with your logic on leaving Shotty alive. He is a one-shot lightning rod, as he clearly states, so we'd only get one night of "neutering," not to mention the fact that he could be a scum lightning rod, at which point he would activate overnight, get "confirmed," and then proceed to linger on until scum destroys us.

My mistake. Didn't notice the one-shot aspect. Still, this is a provable role, and one that can essentially SKIP A NIGHT at the cost of his life. I think people who are piling on to lynch him are making a mistake, if only for logic's sake.

Although, to be honest, I can't stand Espeon, shotty, or Vezok's playstyle. I'm tempted to hammer solely because I think the average IQ of the whole town would go up. ;3

[mikeburnfire]

First of all, we have a

claimed

vig. Second of all, if DMSIS is telling the truth, then by lynching him we use up our lynch and cannot force the mafia's kill on somebody else. Frankly, I believe there's too much power role garbage going on anyway. Time to neuter everyone and play the game like it's meant to be played.

[mikeburnfire]

We already have a mass claim going. On Day 1. Might as well just paint bullseyes on our foreheads.

[mikeburnfire]

For the record, I still think Gandalf is scummy. (I realize that if he flips scum, I'm going to look suspicious because he called me 100% town, and I unvoted him when he was close to lynch).

vote: piraka

because even if there's a better chance of Gandalf being scum, I want these useless players gone. I might hammer drmy later, we'll see. I think there's too much focus on his role right now.

[mikeburnfire]

I don't even care. We've got players who refuse to participate, and it's really pissing me off.

[mikeburnfire]

Quick post:
I don't like the hammer, Espeonage is acting sketchy.
Also, I really feel like the lynch on drmy was unnecessary, and that Espeonage alone is not solely responsible for his death.

[mikeburnfire]

Honestly, I'm going to go ahead and call BULLSHIT on this.

Is there anybody with weird nonstandard roles like this? If so, say YES, that's all. Dont say what it is.

My reasoning- So far all roles revealed do normal things. Espeonage's claim doesnt. Therefore, Espeonage is lying.

vote espeonage

Role fishing much? Personally, I'd consider LIGHTNINGROD to be pretty non-standard.

Also- We need more posting from Jarti and MBF. Xite- your vig kill goes there, hmm?

Curious. Why me? I posted pretty frequently day 1, and I had some pretty good posts, I thought. I'm nowhere near as bad as Jarti.

[mikeburnfire]

Okay, have none of you ever seen a Friendly Neighbour role? It's really not that rare.

I've never seen it, but now that you mention it, I think I've heard of it vaguely.

is there a reason all suspicion has dropped from him [gandalf] since yesterday [...]

I still think he's suspicious. He seems very opportunistic, and yes, mafia roleblocker is a common mafia power role.

1) In looking back over the game, MBF and Jarti have thus far declined to nameclaim,

Jarti has already nameclaimed. As for me, I was just wondering how long it would take for somebody to point it out.

Are you willing to nameclaim (and not flavor- or full-claim) now, as the remainder of the game has? If not, why?

Probably. I don't think my role can be determined from my character. What is your opinion on flavor claims? Do you think that they can help find scum?

So, using Occam's Razor and all that philosophical baggage that goes with it...

I don't think we're guaranteed to have scum between Xite and Gandalf. We could have a roleblocker and scumroleblocker. Or the mafia could have a doctor, which is a pretty common scumpowerrole. I doubt that Xite lied about his kill flavor, though. If he's mafia or SK and claims Day 1, it's because he wants to pretend to help the town with his kill. It wouldn't make sense to forfeit his kill, especially since he was given a blank check to kill whomever he wants from a list.

I targetted bv night 0

Night 0 was cancelled, if I recall correctly.

I believe that Espeonage DID send a Magicarp to Gandalf, or at least tried to. He nudged gandalf and practically asked him to confirm his role:

Sadly that didn't work out seeing as we lost a cop. Now I would like to hear from gandalf.

So I believe his role, but not necessarily his alignment. Gandalf quickly shot back:

I roleblocked Espeonage. I suspect that I may have blocked the mafia kill, and that Xite shot vezok.

...which is a lot of assumptions to make, considering the flavor was off on the vezok-kill.

I'm magikarp salesman. Each night I send someone a magikarp. In a mini game with this many power roles scum don't get fairly useless abilities.

Oh, so you could have had your partner say that they had received a fish from you? Good thing you decided to actually read the thread this morning, or your plan would have gone awry.

That's really pushing it. A lie like that would only work once or twice, and would likely unravel the whole scumgroup if used.

In summation, I believe Espeonage's role claim. I also believe that one of two things is likely true: That we have a mafia doctor, or a mafiaroleblocker (likely Gandalf)

[mikeburnfire]

And are you going to nameclaim then?

Probably.

I feel that Switz is scum. It is hard to quantify, but I'm uncomfortable with how switz has been posting.

We have a claimed vigilante who insists he was sabotaged, a Salesman who claims he can prove his role but did not, a dead cop, and a suspicious roleblocker; and you choose to vote Switz because you feel uncomfortable with his playstyle. Nicol, I thought you were playing well yesterday, but I take it back.

Everyone, look back over Nicol's posts. Check out the crazy amount of his early defensiveness of Gandalf early on. After votes start adding on, he vote Gandalf, but tells him not to claim. I can tell he really wants to unvote him, though. He keeps saying "If you make a defense, I'll unvote you!". He has stated on five occasions that he wants Gandalf lynched. Now that we have a new day, all that willingness to lynch is gone. When it became a case of Espeonage vs Gandalf, he took Gandalf's side, rolefished, tried to direct a vigilante kill (at lurkers instead of scum), and now quickly hops on switz for lousy reasoning. All of these are reasons to believe Nicol is scum with Gandalf.

On the other hand, Gandalf has only addressed Nicol once all game: just recently, when he attacked espeonage. Not talking to/about your scumpartner is a rookie scum mistake, and Gandalf says that he'd attack Nicol once Espeonage is killed and revealed to be scum, which is convenient if Espeonage is killed and revealed to be town.

vote: Gandalf

[mikeburnfire]

Well, since you're so perceptive on this, maybe you feel more inclined to give your opinion on others?

[mikeburnfire]

Anyone. I haven't seen much scumhunting from you all game except on Gandalf. The hammer on Drmy doesn't count since you never gave any reason other than "meta". Also, the fact that you called it a "deliberate mislynch" makes you look incredibly scummy. Now is not the time to be holding back opinions.

[mikeburnfire]

Espeonage, You

just

said that you were withholding your suspicions of Nicol until I pointed mine out.

Nicol, I don't believe you, probably because I think you're his scummate. How do you 100% guarantee we're wrong? No, I am genuinely curious as to how you cracked it. Do tell.

[mikeburnfire]

Please claim to be a Mason with Gandalf. This will confirm to me that you are liars, and I can proceed to stab you in the eye.

[mikeburnfire]

Yeah, I was rolefishing. I was hoping that you'd fakeclaim masons with Gandalf, which would be foolish since Gandalf said I was 100% town yesterday, and a Mason should only think that about his partner. I would have caught you lying.

I still say that your reasoning for voting Switz is super-weak, and your backtracking on Gandalf is evidence of scummery.

[mikeburnfire]

his refusal to nameclaim is striking me as more due to arrogance than scumminess.

I... don't recall refusing to nameclaim?

Switz- I have role-based information that 100% confirms that gandalf is town. I don't see what there is to disagree with that.

I don't know what kind of information would give you 100% confirmation on Gandalf's alignment overnight. I'll leave my vote on him.

I'm leaving my vote on at least until Gandalf flavorclaims though, I think that's an omission we let slide.

What are you talking about?

[mikeburnfire]

Because who the hell would protect Espeo?

A scumdoctor.

[mikeburnfire]

Well, that's good enough for me to

unvote

. An inventor role is plausible, and Gengar is pretty cool. Though, Dream Eater only works (in the games) if the other pokémon is asleep (IE after using Hypnosis), so what that role would do is beyond me.

With this new information, I'll review the case on Espeonage and see how I feel about it now.

[mikeburnfire]

If Nicol says Gandalf is 100% town, and Gandalf says that I'm 100% town, then that means that Nicol thinks I'm 100%

QED Nicol.

[mikeburnfire]

I'll probably give this game my attention this weekend, but I'd like a quick re-confirmation.

Nicol, are you sure that Gandalf is 100% town? As in, there's NO possible way for him to be scum in your eyes? Your investigation is guaranteed normal sanity, and there's no way your result could have been tampered with?

[mikeburnfire]

TLDR Version:
Xite is most town-looking right now. Switz is good too. Nicol and Gandalf are almost assuredly on the same team, be it scum or town. Espeonage has done a lot of scummy things and I don't have a problem with people voting for him. Prox is almost definitely a Nexus, but also behaves like a scum nexus. If that's the case, then Jarti is scum too. jimfinn looks bad, and BV needs to post more. Even with Gandalf looking incredibly scummy, I'll leave him alone with Nicol's investigation claim. As it stands, Im fine with lynching Prox, jimfinn or Espeonage today.

My flavor claim is Missingno. I would have given it sooner if somebody had asked.

=========================================================

In post 34, Gandalf states emphatically that it certainly couldn't hurt to perform a flavor-claim. This was almost immediately after Nicol had speculated that flavor could be related to role in this game, and seeing as how Gandalf's flavor was connected so strongly to his role (Wigglytuff is the evolution of the popular Jigglypuff, whose most famed ability is to sing people to sleep, IE roleblock), it seems odd that he would state such a thing. If Roleblocking Wigglytuff is a fakeclaim, he hasn't created it at this point.

In post 36, Gandalf states that he is sure that we have a doc if Xite is an important role. No roles or flavors have yet to be revealed at this point, and this statement is also WRONG, from a game balance standpoint. A really powerful role would be countered by an ABSENCE of a doctor.

In post 52, Gandalf calls NB out to full claim. After Xite had just fully claimed. On post 52.

On page 14, Drmy makes his Lightning Rod claim, and gandalf immediately sets into him, calling the role unbalanced, suicidal, conflicting, anti-town, and desperate, before attacking his meta. It's an attack of large magnitude for seemingly very little.

My reasons for suspecting Gandalf are:
Parroting other players day 1
Buddying up to me (he called me 100% town yesterday)
Opinion on flavor claim that doesn't match his flavor.
Lying about the possibility of a doctor.
Pressuring other players to claim inappropriately
Being a major influence in the Lightning Rod lynch (who would have been a useful role)
Possible roleblocking of town vigilante (and subsequent setup of espeo's lynch today)
Lack of scumhunting (He's mainly just attacking people as the game progresses)

The only reason for me to suspect Gandalf to be town is Nicol's claim that his investigation turns up a town-gandalf. Nicol could be lying to protect his scumbuddy, or just had his results tampered with. Or he could, as Farfetch'd as it might seem, be the truth.

Nicol attacked Gandalf all throughout yesterday, then suddenly stopped today. If Nicol was scum, then I would expect him to continue distancing, so that's a point in his favor. The roleclaim itself is a little fishy, as there was no reason to send in a list of moves to the moderator. That part seems made up to me. Also, inventor-type is a way cool fakeclaim for a scum to make. I've done it before, and it's cool because you don't have to tell anybody what your moves do because you convieniently don't know either. It's great for making stuff up on the fly.

If Nicol is scum, then Gandalf is scum. There's no reason for scum to make up a desperate claim to protect a town roleblocker who was under heavy suspicion. That's just crazy.

==============================================

In post 47, Prox states that most abilities won't affect him as they should. He also says that he doesn't think roles have much to do with names, which fits if his name is Scyther and role is Nexus. The only role I could think of that matched this description was Miller, but Nexus also fits. If Prox is lying about his role, then he had it planned from the start, and either got very lucky that another Nexus didn't exist, or had prior knowledge. I believe his role-claim whole-heartedly. I'm not sure about his alignment, though. A role like his benefits from remaining hidden, as he has the potential to bounce a mafiakill back at them. However, he hinted at it early and often, almost like he wanted us to drag it out of him. I can see a mafia-nexus doing this, as it makes him seem extremely valuable to the town (an unkillable townie!), but also gives him an aliby when he doesn't die quickly. It also helps keep cops and vigs at bay (he even stated in his second post that his role would mislead scans). So I really do believe his role claim, but have serious doubts on his alliance.

=============================================

Espeonage just looks like a bad player in general. He voted Gandalf, and getting his reasoning was like pulling teeth, but he DID eventually give it. Also, with regards to the Day one speedwagon, Prox voted Espeonage without a case and was subsequently voted by Nicol, Gandalf, Xite, and Prox. I jumped in and said to stop. I still think I made the right choice. All other active players (4) were rushing onto the wagon, and their reason for doing to was because Espeo had not given reasoning for his vote. While such an action might be suspicious, it's not uncommon for a Day 1/Page 3 action, and I personally believed that the wagon was growing to rapidly.

Near the end of day 1, he said that he had a drmy-town read, but the very next post he was willing to hammer. Then he hammered. The next day he called it a "deliberate mislynch". There's absolutely no way I can pretend that this is a pro-town action. Now he's playing in a survivalist mentality, voting anybody who looks like they could be the potential lynch instead of him.

I started off defensive of Esp because I thought he was being speedlynched for a terrible reason, and that gandalf was just taking advantage of an easy lynch, but I'm done now. He has done nothing to redeem himself, and I believe it's entirely possible for him to be scum.

==============================================

Post 144, Vezok basically admits to not paying attention, and votes Gandalf without reason. This seemed like distancing to me. Later he would also make that "I am scum" slip. Also, throughout the day it seemed like he was a worthless asset to the town at best with his terrible posts. Frankly, I'm surprised he flipped cop.

===============================================

There's not much to work with on the topic of Jarti. He doesn't have many posts, but his actions basically boil down to voting switz, giving up, voting gandalf, giving up, and voting jimfin. His most recent post asserts that he believe the nexus claim, and also that he's fine with the claim because it complements the lightningrod. If we lynch Prox and he turns up scum, then we should look at Jarti as well.

===============================================

Jimfinn is another player who doesn't give me much to work with. He votes DMSIS for voting Xite, even though DMSIS said we weren't going to lynch him. This is hypocracy, as Jimfinn was doing THE EXACT SAME THING. In the morning he was against an esp lynch, but doesn't really try to defend him. And yeah, his directing of Xite recently is suspicious, especially considering that Jim didn't really believe him yesterday.

===============================================

Like I said, I doubt that Xite lied about his kill flavor. If he's mafia or SK and claims Day 1, it's because he wants to pretend to help the town with his kill. It wouldn't make sense to forfeit his kill, especially since he was given a blank check to kill whomever he wants from a list. He could be lying about having the ability to kill, but that would be crazy to announce that you could on Day 1 with no intention of doing so. I believe that Xite is telling the truth, but was blocked.

===============================================

Switz seems to be playing fine enough for now. BV needs to do more.

===============================================

[mikeburnfire]

We're going to kill you, Espeonage, but don't worry too much. I would rather lynch someone who is a less important member to town than a potentially more important member which could swing the game towards scum.

[mikeburnfire]

I was being sarcastic, but please elaborate. I'm curious as to how you believe sacrificing yourself benefits the town.

vote: Espeonage

[mikeburnfire]

I'll grant you #34 (Bulbapedia confirms it). For post 36, you are missing the logic. You say that if Xite is a really important role, then we will have a doctor, which is contrary to the logic in game balance. Post 52 I will also grant you. Your defense for page 14 is an OUTRIGHT LIE.

Also, there's still all that other stuff I listed which causes me to suspect you. Even excluding the forcing-Nicol-to-claim part and flavor-claim-doesn't-match-flavor part, the following is still true:

Parroting other players day 1
Buddying up to me (he called me 100% town yesterday)
Lying about the possibility of a doctor.
Being a major influence in the Lightning Rod lynch (who would have been a useful role)
Possible roleblocking of town vigilante (and subsequent setup of espeo's lynch today)
Lack of scumhunting (He's mainly just attacking people as the game progresses)

when I am confirmed town be it through NAs or lynch this game should be breakable. There have been enough close interations for us to break the game open once either I, gandalf or Nicol habe been confirmed.

How.

Even if you prove your role, it can still be a mafia role. And even if you're town, Gandalf can also be town. We gain no real information from your death unless you are scum.

[mikeburnfire]

Gandalf's the one who said we had no VTs. It's still unconfirmed speculation. And your "It's too worthless to be a mafia role!" is WIFOM because that's exactly what a mafia member would want us to believe.

[mikeburnfire]

Okay, let's ignore your role for now. How do you explain this:

Near the end of day 1, he said that he had a drmy-town read, but the very next post he was willing to hammer. Then he hammered. The next day he called it a "deliberate mislynch". There's absolutely no way I can pretend that this is a pro-town action. Now he's playing in a survivalist mentality, voting anybody who looks like they could be the potential lynch instead of him.

[mikeburnfire]

jimfinn, given your ominous statements about me, I feel it prudent to warn you that night-action paybacks can be a bitch.

[mikeburnfire]

I would still like to lynch jimfinn, he hasn't actually shown any desire to scumhunt this d2 as has been all set-up speculation. 'Oh mbf picked missingno...interesting.' and then later saying he has a 'new plan' based on the claim.

I could see espy/jim as partners.

It wouldn't surprise me if two of [you/jim/espy] was scum, considering how little scumhunting I've seen thus far.

I lol'd... Anyway, I do need to know what changes or additions (more so additions) people want to make to my list.

Obviously I would prefer not to be on it. If the kill were in my hands, I'd avoid Prox definitely, I'm near-certain he's nexus. If I had the kill, I'd go for Jarti, jimfinn, or espeonage. Maybe BV, since he's a wild card to me at this point. Of course, this is all assuming you don't get blocked again tonight coughgandalfcough.

[mikeburnfire]

Why would I block Xite if I were scum?

Cuz he can kill you. Duh. It's why you did it yesterday, ya know?

*Also, I will be V/LA until Sunday.

[mikeburnfire]

You're not confirmed town. You're not even confirmed RB.

Just saying.

[mikeburnfire]

The thing is, I think nicol will probably be the NK tonight. Granted, scum will be confirming me, but they'll also be stopping him from using his other abilities, which could be very damaging.

Nicol will not be the nightkill tonight. Scum has other power roles to worry about. Nicol only has 3, or so he claims, and he doesn't know what they do. He's a lesser threat.

[mikeburnfire]

jimfinn,
1) there has zero scumhunting from your corner
2) except when trying to get Xite killed
3) and you did a total 180 on Espeonage when day began.

I'm not opposed to lynching you, and will hammer if need be. I just think that somebody who announces that he deliberately mislynched a townie is worthier of my vote.

[mikeburnfire]

1, 2, and 3 are all correct, and all are suspicious actions. You need to give a reason for your 180 on Espy.

[mikeburnfire]

Hello, my name is jimfinn. My ability is that I can detect when people are lying about their flavor. Night 1 I investigated Espeonage and found that he was indeed telling the truth about being a Magicarp Salesman, and that alone convinced me that he was town. Regardless, I have shown no interest in stopping his lynch as the day has progressed.

unvote, vote jimfinn

[mikeburnfire]

I have been trying to scumhunt, just slightly less active than some other players.

Name one person you have even expressed suspicion of Day 2. Because looking through your isolated posts, I see nothing.

[mikeburnfire]

That's not scumhunting. Scumhunting is trying to find scum. Even if you were 100% sure that Espeonage is town, there are still 8 players out there, and three(?) of them are scum. Who are they?

Also, are you claiming to be flavor investigator or role investigator?

[mikeburnfire]

I am a thief who steals a flavor related item from a player without preventing the use of their role. I stole a magikarp from Espeonage last night. Role connection: sneasel using the attack thief.

Sounds like a fake role. You're stealing people's pokémon? You know who else does that? The evil Team Rocket. And what would you steal from Scyther, Gengar, or Ampharos? Hell, what could you possibly steal from "water type"?

[mikeburnfire]

It's plausible, but also easily fake-able, and looks hastily thrown together. Claim aside, I agree that his actions have not helped the town.

[mikeburnfire]

Hey, you know what I don't see?

Scumhunting. Hop to it.

[mikeburnfire]

People I am willing to lynch today:
Espeonage - Totally willing to off this guy. No scumhunting, complete waffle yesterday, admits to deliberate mislynching-- c'mon, this guy's a good choice.
jimfinn - Also a good choice. No scumhunting, complete coasting through game, waffling, inconsistency.
BV - Lurker, no scumhunting.
Prox - Definitely a nexus, likely a scum-nexus. Of course, if he's town then

THE MAFIA

would be trying to get him lynched the hardest, since that's the only way for them to kill him.
Gandalf - Maybe. I have a really hard time believing this guy to be town, even with Nicol's investigation claim. See my previous huge post for reasons why.

People I am not willing to lynch today:
Xite - I'm still waiting to see what this guy can do, although recent actions have been stupid.
Nicol - While his claim is easy to fake, I feel that he wouldn't stick his neck out for Gandalf in such a way unless he was telling the truth.
Jarti - lynch Prox first.
Switz - He's playing good enough for me.

[mikeburnfire]

I want to see more from mbf,

You know what? I've been an active player, giving my beliefs on the setup and suspicions on all players constantly. I made a huge post yesterday and a huge post today. You started acting like it was time to end the day, and I posted a list of players I was willing to lynch. And I'm still on V/LA. So if you expect to see more from me, you're going to be disappointed.

It feels like you've already planned to kill me tonight no matter what I do, even though I'm doing a lot, and you've essentially given up.

[mikeburnfire]

My mistake, I thought you meant that I wasn't doing enough scumhunting and took offense to that.

I suppose I can't help my playstyle. I am who I am. Calculating, but impatient.

No defeatism here; just irritated that there are too many people who just aren't even playing the game.

[mikeburnfire]

We just need to have BV replaced and Espeonage and jimfinn killed. That's all.

[mikeburnfire]

Jim is at Lynch-2. Before we end the day, I'd like to either see a really good post from BV, or have him replaced.

[mikeburnfire]

Prox, jim, and BV need to vote somebody. Nicol needs to move his vote because Switz isn't going to be killed today.

BV DEFINITELY NEEDS TO START PLAYING.

Gandalf, I still think that there's a good possibility for you to be scum. In addition, if Prox is pro-town, it would make sense for scum-you to try to get him lynched, since you can't kill him during the night, nor roleblock his ability. Also, your main reason for attacking Prox is hypocritical. He suggested lynching somebody who hasn't claimed. You act like that's scummy, but Xite, jim, Nicol, Espeo, and Prox had all claimed, and you said that you didn't find any of them to be scummy. The only ones left were the ones who hadn't claimed.

So what's the deal here? Do you have any better reasons for wanting Prox dead? Your main reason is bunk.

Don't lynch jim. He's not scummy.

Why.

I had this idea, but when I think aloud too much, I sound stupid/scummy. Let me think on this.

Huh?

Esp lynch works for me.

Why.

I've never seen a game with a scum nexus before. Wouldn't that punish good town play?

With all the power roles on the town side, I feel that scum nexus would help balance things out.

[mikeburnfire]

There are other reasons to lynch you. Don't think that I won't hammer you if deadline looms, because I will.

I believe his role-claim whole-heartedly. I'm not sure about his alignment, though. A role like his benefits from remaining hidden, as he has the potential to bounce a mafiakill back at them. However, he hinted at it early and often, almost like he wanted us to drag it out of him. I can see a mafia-nexus doing this, as it makes him seem extremely valuable to the town (an unkillable townie!), but also gives him an alibi when he doesn't die quickly. It also helps keep cops and vigs at bay (he even stated in his second post that his role would mislead scans). So I really do believe his role claim, but have serious doubts on his alliance.

What do you find scummy in Espeonage's ISO that doesn't also exist in jimfinn's iso?

[mikeburnfire]

I'd like a prod on BV, Nicol, and Switz.

[mikeburnfire]

Hey, is it too late to change my vote to Espeonage?

[mikeburnfire]

What are you talking about?

[mikeburnfire]

I'm not really going to switch my vote this close to the end of the day. I just find that last post by Espeonage to be damningly suspicious.

[mikeburnfire]

Okay, I think first of all, we need to decide right now if we believe Xite or not. The lack of water kill for the last two nights implies that he's lying about his role, unless he's being roleblocked by the mafia. Since we would presumably be at LyLo after a No-Lynch, an actual vig would need to temper their role anyways. Essentially, Xite has never killed, and now has an excuse never to kill. It would be pretty ballsy to claim Vigilante Day 1 without actually having the ability to kill, though. *IF* we DO believe Xite's role, then we should lynch today, and Xite should try to kill again tonight. Third time's the charm, right?

Of the players alive, I'm finding it difficult to pick out scum. I'm kinda feeling a Gandalf-Espeonage-Nicol group right now, since they've been keeping their abilities within their circle. That's probably unlikely based on Day 1 interactions, though. I believe Prox's role, but not necessarily that he's town. I think Nicol's making his role up.

Either way, there are only 3 players alive right now who haven't claimed their role: Jarti, Switz and myself. If we are indeed close to LyLo, perhaps we should consider a mass claim right now. I have reason to believe that

Switz

Andrius is scum.

[mikeburnfire]

My post yesterday was in reference to Espeonage's line "2. If you think I am scummy then you should think jim is as well because we have played quite similar.", which just screams scum to me.

I definitely, DEFINITELY, don't like Xite claiming to have forfeited his supposed lynch. Not only is he forfeiting a shot at killing scum (even if he just kills at random), but he still has yet to confirm his role. Deciding not to kill puts us in the situation we are now: forfeiting a lynch to sure up numbers.

It feels to me that he's trying to get me lynched to win the game, perhaps by linking me to his scumparter Espeonage. Need to review past interactions.

[mikeburnfire]

Xite, you are so full of crap. The entire day yesterday you were yelling about needing more flips and that we didn't have any information. You threatened to kill me if Jim came up town. Jim came up town, so I presumed I would die. But then you claim to forfeit your kill last night because you weren't sure who was scum. And now you're saying that you

would love to see how MBF flips

and that you

feel we should lynch MBF

and that

believe you're[mbf] scum

. Either you are only pretending to think I'm scummy, or you can't actually kill me. Which is it?

I'd much prefer to see what scum do one more time. Yes, we would be forfeiting the lynch to sure up numbers, but also to get a little bit more information, information we DESPERATELY need.

So, instead of killing somebody to get information, you want to let the scum kill one more time. WHY. What information could we get from their kill that we couldn't get from yours, with the additional benefit of possibly killing scum?

*vote: Xite* the lying scum who doesn't actually have vigilante powers

Just for the record...

As I said, I have seen little to no scumhunting today, and I feel it would be better for the town to just wait until tomorrow to keep hunting. That way we have more flips.

how many of us have a strong idea of who scum are right now? Do you? If so, where's the case? I honestly feel like more flips would be the way to go at this point because we've got practically nothing else

... which is exactly why at this point the only thing that can move us forward in scumhunting is more flips...

(no offense jim, but you are probably the most likely to be scum at this point, and more flips = good at this point because we have nothing to go off of)

Honestly, I would love to see how MBF flips based on what happened yesterday after we hit the lynch

PPE: Gandalf beat me to it.

[mikeburnfire]

It's just you, me, and Prox I believe, well short of the 6 vote minimum. However, I still think scum-nexus is plausible, so Prox's vote makes me uneasy. It's too early to end the day anyway, we still haven't heard from Andy, Jarti or Nicol.

[mikeburnfire]

Okay then, Xite. If mafia kills are so much more telling than vig kills, what information did you get from BV and Vezok's death?

[mikeburnfire]

While I think Xite is terribly scummy, I didn't realize he was so close to lynch.

UNVOTE

. As I said before, I have reason to believe that Switz was scum, so I'd like to get a roleclaim from his replacement. So I suppose I'm in the MassClaimYes group. As for postponinging the lynch, I dunno.

[mikeburnfire]

Andrius. I believe that you, or rather, your predecessor targeted somebody last night. What is your role?
SnakePlissin. Welcome. What did you do last night, and to whom?

I'm willing to full claim before Jarti.

Xite, the answers you gave for those two kills are a little specific. I was expecting something like "the mafia are killing lurkers", which is what I had assumed. Instead, you go deep about how they targeted Vezok because they thought he was cop (which I don't see at all) and how they thought BV was a power role (even though until his death every townie thought this was no-vanilla) and are setting up Prox to be the next lynch today. That's quite the insight.

[mikeburnfire]

I'm really getting sick of you not paying attention, Prox.

[mikeburnfire]

Oh. If Andrius didn't target anybody last night, then it neuters all my evidence about him being scum.

While I still think that there are some aspects of Xite's role that are suspect, I have changed my mind about lynching him. I think that not killing last night was an incredibly anti-town move, but he's explained why he did it, and while I don't agree, it's a reason. I can't seem to provoke anything more out of him.

Of the five players, SnakeNicol, Espeonage, gandalf5166, Prox, and Jarti, I think Espeonage and Prox are the scummiest right now. However, I want Jarti to full claim now. He's the person I have the weakest read on because he's been lurkier than most. Upon a quick review, I actually think he's scum with Espeonage.

I'm willing to claim before or after Andrius.

[mikeburnfire]

So, your role is vaguely described as "Switch", and you have the ability to flip a single switch on or off. Therefore, you jump to the conclusion that you are a Vigilante-Enabler. I have no idea why you would make such a huge leap in logic. This is such a terrible, obviously fake claim.

So now that we've determined that Jarti and Espeonage are in the scumgroup, I wonder who the third is.

[mikeburnfire]

Actually, Gandalf, no. I quickly looked through Jarti and Espy's interactions and didn't like what I saw. The only time Espeonage said anything to/about Jarti, was when Jarti directly asked him to explain himself. Jarti's post in question looked like it was trying to get Espeonage to play better, while trying to enforce a jim-Espy connection.

Plus, they're both scummy in their own right. Jarti for his recent role claim, and Esponage for wagon hopping, sudden unexplained hammer vote on shooty, admission that it was an intentional mislynch, etc.

And I read the wiki article on my role when I got it and it seemed fairly logical to me that I could be controlling a killing role: http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Switch

From said article:

Switches who win with the mafia are not unheard of, either.

coughcough

[mikeburnfire]

Also, I'd probably have been more understanding about Prox if I'd have known his ignorance stems from technical issues, rather than him not caring.

[mikeburnfire]

Hey, if you reread Jarti's claim, but switch the words "OFF" and "ON" around, it reads like a confession of sabotaging the Vig!

Also, no. We are not killing Gandalf today. Try again.

[mikeburnfire]

One more, did anyone else target someone and not get a result from it? Just testing a theory.

Technically, I did. Although mine is not a role where I would normally be notified afterward anyway.

[mikeburnfire]

^I think I need to be more specific. Somebody might read what I said as "I did get a result", which is not what I meant. What I meant was that I DID target somebody and not get a result.

[mikeburnfire]

I'm a Role Redirector. I can choose one player, and choose who their new target will be. If my target has a night action, it will be redirected and affect the other player I chose. I've been trying to use it to redirect the Mafia's kill back at them, but I can't make a player target themself, so it's been difficult.

First night I redirected Vezok towards Gandalf. I had a suspicion that they were on the same team, but that Gandalf would be busy roleblocking and his scummates would make the kill. I don't know if I successfully redirected him since he died. Last night I targeted Switz because he suddenly went quiet, and redirected him towards BV. Since BV ended up dead I thought that maybe I had redirected the mafia kill. But now that Andrius has claimed VT, I think it's just coincidence.

[mikeburnfire]

Here's all the information so we are all up to speed. This is mostly for Andrius.

DEAD
drmyshottyizsik, Ampharos (One Shot Lightning Rod), Lynched Day One
Vezokpiraka, Sabrina (Cop), Mafia Kill Night One.
jimfinn, Sneasal (Town Theif), Stole a Magikarp from Espeonage Night One, Lynched Day Two
bv310, Eevee (Vanilla Townie), Mafia Kill Night Two.

ALIVE (the following information is unconfirmed)
SnakePlissen (NicolBolas), Gengar, Jack of All Trades, investigated Gandalf Night One (Innocent), actions from last night not yet revealed
Espeonage, Magikarp salesman, Magicarp giver, Gave Magikarp to Gandalf Night 1 (Roleblocked) and Night 2
gandalf5166, Wigglytuff, Roleblocker, Blocked Espeonage Night 1 and Jarti Night 2
Prox, Scyther, Nexus
Jarti, Ash Ketchum, Town Switch. Flipped Switch on Night 1, Did nothing Night 2
Xite91, Water Type, Vigilante. Targeted Espeonage Night 1 (failed), did nothing Night 2
Switz, Eevee, Townie
mikeburnfire, Missingno, Redirector. Made Vezok target Gandalf Night 1. Made Switz target BV Night 2.

[mikeburnfire]

I'm not going to quote my PM, but it describes me glitching another player, and causing them to unknowingly hit somebody else.

[mikeburnfire]

We don't have that kind of time, man! So unless you have a pocket full of rare candies, let's be realistic!

[mikeburnfire]

Okay, so we can all agree that if the switch was turned on, it would be to my vig kill?

In that case,

Unvote, Vote Jarti

If you promise not to lynch me today, I can tell you why.

I promise no such thing. You must be daft, thinking you can bargain in such a manner so close to endgame.

Are you saying that you believe Jarti's claim? Or do you think he's the reason you haven't killed yet?

[mikeburnfire]

Oh, so we now have TWO people who claim to be Unkillable at night. Methinks one of them be lying. Gonna go back and check, because I think there's evidence that contradicts Xite's sudden change.

Oh, and I think Andrius being forced to target BV and BV dying are coincidences because I sincerely doubt that Andrius killed BV. If he did, then I believe he would have tried to fake an investigative type role when I was insinuating that I tracked him. He could still be scum, but I believe Andrius is town. He's certainly one of the least suspicious players thus far.

[mikeburnfire]

That post just says "lying is okay in certain circumstances". Nothing about Bulletproof is hinted.

Which is why I wanted to claim, I want it to be town directed, and I don't think the doc should worry about me, the kill still goes through if I'm NK'd, and I'm sure there's better PR's to protect.

Okay, this

does

This supports the idea of Xite being a bulletproof trying to attract the mafia kill.

First, I feel that I'm the NK of the night, so I'm getting my opinion out there.
Second, you guys are directing me, but only to a group of people so it's harder for scum to change events.

I targeted Esp.
I figured he was the most likely scum. Why my kill didn't go through though.... I have no idea.

Wow... this game is ridiculous.

Vote: Esp

Why would my kill not work on you?

Okay, now this is evidence of a lie. If Xite knows he has no actual kill, what kind of answer can he possibly expect from Esp? He's starting a bandwagon based on a lie.

I'll wait on prox (I don't really remember what was scummy about him and I'm kind of too lazy to go back and check),

Xite, you

did

try to vig someone N1, didn't you?

Night 1? Yes, and I claimed it.
Last night? Nope.

Reaffirming the lie

I'm not too sure, maybe I was RB'd or maybe Espy is lying about his role?

Again, lying about his role to get Espy lynched.

I was jailkept wasn't I?

huh? where'd that come from?

Why your kill didn't go through.

That might make sense, but that would mean that gandalf would need to be a jailkeeper and not a roleblocker. I'm confused right now...

Why would you be confused about this if you already know why your kill didn't go through?

I would like everyone's reasons why they are still voting me.
Also, considering it takes 5 to lynch, I would like to point out that there is probably at least 1 scum voting me. ...

Xite is put at L-2 in MyLo, and still sticks to his lie.

Except how do you know I'm lying? You don't do you? [...] Also, I'm of a mind that Gandalf is not a RBer at all. Because there's no way to confirm that he roleblocked who he did either time. Unless Espy got his magikarp back or something like that.

Sticks to his role, then insinuates Gandalf roleblocked him.

Honestly, neither, but We've lost a cop and the RBer and Vig have claimed, what else is there gonna be? Doc? Obviously, they haven't been doing a good job (or they doc'd espy N1 why?)

So many things being said that don't indicate that you know you don't have a vigkill.

Boy, I don't know. It's obviously that either Prox or Xite is lying, since I don't see two unkillable townies in the same game. Earlier, I'd have said that Xite was town and Prox was scum, since Xite played the role properly, trying to attract the mafia kill, and Prox played it poorly, coming out of the gate screaming his role instead of trying to get the mafia to waste their kill. However, now that I review Xite, he looks like a liar. He knows he lied about his ability, but is using that lie to incriminate other players. When Prox claimed a nearly identical role, Xite never addressed it, or mentioned it. I think I will vote Xite today. I don't know who his partners would be though. Nicol and Jarti?

[mikeburnfire]

I have a reason. We still haven't heard what Snake's action last night was.

Also, I'd like to respond to Xite's post when I have time tomorrow. Her actions have been suspect, but he still played the role better than you played it, Prox. The role of bulletproof/nexus/hider/untargetable is a role in which a player benefits if the mafia targets him/her, and to do that best, one would imply that they were a powerful role. Xite just took it one step further and actually claimed it. Still debating on whether or not to believe it. More on this tomorrow.

Also, I don't know what to think about Jarti. My initial reaction was that his role was a lie, but I've never legitimately played with or even heard of a switch before. Even if Xite is telling the truth, that doesn't mean that Jarti's claim is proven false. His assumptions are utter garbage, though, and I have no idea what he would be controlling if he actually was a switch.

[mikeburnfire]

That's Lynch-2 again.

Snake, have you read the thread? Do you have anything else to say about anyone else? If not, I think you shouldn't be voting people yet, in what could be our last lynch.

Do you perhaps have a result from last night? How sure are you of your result?

[mikeburnfire]

Xite, it's hard to take you seriously when you switch your vote every post.

[mikeburnfire]

Hey guys, let me thank you for the speedlynch. No really, it's cool. We don't need to discuss possible scum partners. We certainly don't need to give MBF the chance to address Xite's replies. Nah, we'll just lynch as fast as possible whenever we're in LyLo phase.

Based on the speed at which this build, I bet Xite's town and Prox is scum. In which case, Good game, scum.

[mikeburnfire]

I'm not sure I follow your logic

[mikeburnfire]

Oh really? So you were told, after you chose to use that particular move, that you roleblocked Prox?

By the way, if you were town, you'd wouldn't be voting right now, after the obvious speedlynch that happened yesterday. There's a lot going on here that needs to be discussed.

[mikeburnfire]

By the way, hai Gandalf. I tried to target you yesterday, but it didn't go through. It's okay though. We both know what's going on.

[mikeburnfire]

Heh. Snake, please explain to us why you would target somebody who claimed to be a Nexus? I still believe Prox wasn't lying about that aspect of his role.

[mikeburnfire]

So, to clarify, you told the mod "I want to ShadowBall Prox", and the mod responded, "Shadow Ball was a Roleblock". Is that correct?

Oh hey, who got the fish from Espeonage? I'm just dying to know.

[mikeburnfire]

Gandalf claimed to get one. Whether he did or not, I dunno.

[mikeburnfire]

So, would you say that this is evidence that Prox lied about being a Nexus?

[mikeburnfire]

Snake claimed to block Prox. Maybe Prox is the attempted killer?

[mikeburnfire]

I'm already sure that Gandalf and Prox are scum. I have no idea who the third is, but that's because no other townies actually seem to be paying attention. Andy and Esp can't do the work themselves, Snake seems to baffled on how everything works, and Jarti's the only one who seems to be doing it right. I hate his role and think this "Switch" business is crap, but sadly his play has been the most townie.

Vote: Gandalf

[mikeburnfire]

I don't mean to be patronizing, but my patience is thin, and you've already admitted to not reading the game thoroughly. You can look in the Wiki to see how Nexus works, or check previous discussion in this game.

Gandalf is scum with Prox. His roleblocking ability has never been proven, and the investigation result on him is either a lie or altered. I currently think the third might be Esp.

[mikeburnfire]

Good post Jarti. Certainly strengthens my belief that Esp could be scum. Prox could be town too, but then Snake would be the third, which would make sense, given his investigation claim.

[mikeburnfire]

Wow, wall-o'text flailing? You complain that Jarti colored his name green in his own VC analysis, then you try to discredit all VC analyses by mentioning one time when a different player had a bad analysis. Then you call his role useless because we've never seen it work, even though the exact same could be said for you. Your quick-lynch yesterday and recent attempt today only serve to expose you more; maybe next time try not to be so obvious about it.

[mikeburnfire]

The more I think about it, the more Prox seems town. I mean, I believe he's a Nexus, and if he were scum, then it should obviously be him making the kill because he can't be roleblocked. With Andrius off my radar, that leaves:

SnakePlissen (NicolBolas)
Espeonage
gandalf5166
Jarti

Gandalf, who do you believe to be in the scumgroup, if it isn't Jarti-Espeonage-Snake?

[mikeburnfire]

Jarti-Espy-Prox. Why would Snake be on there? I'm starting to suspect that we might be in a 10-2 setup though. The only reason I assumed 9-3 was because I thought it was vanillaless. And no, I don't think your speculation means anything. Maybe he's like a suped up ninja, where he can only turn on his ability every other night? There are plenty of possibilities as to why Jarti made the kill.

Really? In a setup in which we have had a town lightning rod, a cop, a town thief, and a bulletproof townie, a town redirector (in addition to claiming a town roleblocker for yourself and believing Nicol's town inventor claim) you think we're in a 10-2 setup? Seriously, that's far too unbalanced, especially if you think that Esp, the fairly useless Neighbor role is one of the scum.

I also think you're grasping at straws with the "suped up ninja" speculation. Given that we were down to 7 players, a 3-man scum team would only need 1 kill to win, and if you're town, then they have to worry about being targeted by a roleblocker. Prox making the kill is the only sane option, if he was scum.

[mikeburnfire]

If Prox was scum and his ability wasn't permanent, I don't know why he'd claim it ASAP on Day 1.

Show me a finished game with a 10-man town that includes a sane cop and a 2-man scumgroup, and I'll eat my hat.

[mikeburnfire]

I'm confused. Are you calling Prox a godfather while also calling him a miller?

[mikeburnfire]

Everyone voting Gandalf is town.
Everyone voting Jarti is scum.
Everyone voting Snake is okay, but should help lynch Gandalf first

[mikeburnfire]

Because Gandalf is scum, and there are probably 3 scum. So getting a quick lynch is their best bet, and Gandalf is forcing Jarti so hard.

[mikeburnfire]

Jarti pretty much nailed it a solid case on Gandalf.

Well no quicklynch of any sorts has happened; gandalf pretty much confirmed scum unless you think MBF & I are scum together with someone else for some dumb reason.
[...]
Yeah, gandalf been mislynchin' like mad. Sadly it looks like Espy has been on every mislynch too, so I'll go ahead and stop insisting he's town. You can probably put MBF as green too unless you wanna go bussing yada yada (very doubtful in this situation but whatever).

I'm having my doubts about Prox being scum, and beginning to think it's Gandalf-Snake-Esp. While Prox's hop-on-hop-off is highly suspect from yesterday, Gandalf's speedlynch yesterday and most recent attempts today indicate he's almost definitely aligned with Snake.

[mikeburnfire]

^change that last part to "definitely scum and probably aligned with Snake, given that Snake is helping with the speedlynch today"

[mikeburnfire]

Also the speedlynching.

This game seems to have died. Prox, are you still willing to vote Gandalf? Esp, do you think neither of Gandalf/Jarti is scum and why/why not? Andrius, are you still here?

[mikeburnfire]

If Jarti is scum town have already lost so there is no reason to question that and get ourselves in a bad spiral of mistrust.

Can repeat this in a language I understand?

[mikeburnfire]

It would be hammer, and yes. Please hammer.

[mikeburnfire]

What.......... ?!?!?!?!?! I was pretty sure everyone had decided we were in LyLo.

Three days ago...

Jarti-Espy-Prox. Why would Snake be on there? I'm starting to suspect that we might be in a 10-2 setup though. The only reason I assumed 9-3 was because I thought it was vanillaless.

[mikeburnfire]

Super busy today, but glad we killed Gandalf. Shocked he was a Godfather and not a roleblocker, though. Something's not quite right about that. More later.

[mikeburnfire]

Player	Status	Role	N1 action	N2 Action	N3 Action	N4 Action
drmy	Lynched D1	Town Lightning Rod	-	-	-	-
vezokpiraka	Stabbed N1	Town Cop	?	-	-	-
jimfinn	Lynched D2	Town Thief	Confirm Esp flavor	-	-	-
Bv	Stabbed N2	Vanilla Townie	-	-	-	-
Xite	Lynched D3	Bulletproof Townie	-	-	-	-
Gandalf	Lynched D4	Mafia Godfather	"Blocked Esp"	"Blocked Jarti"	"Blocked Jarti"	-
Snake/Nicol	Alive	Claimed JoaT	"Gandalf=Innocent"	Forfeit	"Blocked Prox"	?
Prox	Alive	Claimed Nexus	-	-	-	-
Espeonage	Alive	Claimed MagikarpGiver	Gave to Gandalf	Gave to Gandalf	Forfeit	Gave to Andrius
Jarti	Alive	Claimed "Switch"	"Turn on switch"	Forfeit	Forfeit	?
Andrius	Alive	Claimed Vanilla Townie	-	-	-	-
MBF	Alive	Claimed "Redirector"	Vezok Gandalf	Andrius Bv	Gandalf Andrius	Forfeit

I have opinions on who scum could be, but I think voting no lynch to get an odd number is a good move for today. Thoughts?

[mikeburnfire]

Statistically speaking, yes, there are times when voting no lynch is a good idea.
http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=No_lynch
What was your action last night, Snake? And how do you think Gandalf's flip affects you?

[mikeburnfire]

What is "Dream Eater"? Vig? Protection?

[mikeburnfire]

^ This is the actual mafia roleblocker.

[mikeburnfire]

I GUESS IT DOESNT WORK IF I START A NEW PAGE, HUH?

[mikeburnfire]

Apparently. I'm willing to vote no lynch, but I'm also willing to lynch you, Snake.

vote: Snake

Mod: Please prod Jarti

[mikeburnfire]

Well, I'm hoping to get Jarti and Andy on the wagon, and either Prox or Espeonage to hammer.

*Looks serious*

[mikeburnfire]

It's been a week since Esp, Prox, or Andrius posted. And I need two of them to help me take out SnakeRoleblocker.

Mod: Mass prod please

[mikeburnfire]

Andrius, it's okay. You don't have to do a massive re-read. We've pretty much already caught the scum.

[mikeburnfire]

Ugh, I'm going back to my initial assumption of Prox/Espeonage

[mikeburnfire]

I'm going to have to do a read thru, because frankly I think you're all scum. Prox and Esp are the pair I've suspected for awhile. Should have gone with one of them, despite Snake's stupid moves. I only feel good about Jarti because of the interactions between him and Gandalf, but I can't remember it that well, could be distancing, need to check it again. And Andrius's predecessor did take easy claims, not to mention I may have redirected his kill that one night.

So yeah, I don't know how we're all still here, but this is probably our last chance.

[mikeburnfire]

Prox, Esp, MBF, Jarti, Andy

I should have just stuck with my initial read of Prox and Gandalf being scum together. I went through with half of it, then let Prox go so that I could go after Snake. Looking back, Prox is the scummiest. He claimed his role early when he should have kept quiet, and his claim makes him a SECOND bulletproof townie.

Andrius looks town-meh-scum. His claim of Eevee is really meh, but the interaction between Gandalf and switz on Day 1 looks really good for him, but definitely could be distancing.

Jarti seems really town because of the way Gandalf was trying to speedlynch him yesterday. Could be distancing, but seems far too strong. That role claim is still horrible.

Espy is meh to scum. He has been on all the mislynches, afterall, and called his hammer vote an intentional mislynch. His role, confirmed by various peeps, seems like legit town, but I'm still on edge.

I believe Prox is very likely scum, with Espy or Andy as the partner. Jarti is not likely at this point. So I propose a Prox lynch today, but won't vote until we've reached an agreement.

[mikeburnfire]

I just want this game to end already.

[mikeburnfire]

Screw it. I'm ready to vote Prox. Failing that, I'd be willing to settle for Esp. I think those are our last two. Take your pick Jarti.

[mikeburnfire]

Assuming you aren't scum yourself; you don't know that Prox isn't scum, and if he is indeed scum, then you've only got a 33% chance if you shoot randomly.

If neither of you are willing to go for Prox, then Espy is the only choice we can agree on.

[mikeburnfire]

That argument is hard to validate, since Prox would be immunte to Nks and also the scum haven't successfully killed anyone for the last three nights for some reason.

Eh, looks like Jarti beat me to it.

[mikeburnfire]

cough

[mikeburnfire]

Frankly, I wouldn't mind lynching his slot since I think he's scum. But since I'm apparently the only one, we have to go thru this arduous process of finding somebody willing to replace into a huge game that's almost done, get all read up, and then post. I t would be a helluvalot easier if you dudes would just see him for the scumbag that he is.

So, no I don't care if you stick Bv in that spot. Anything to get this game over the last hurtle.

[mikeburnfire]

BV replaces Prox.

BV, welcome back. Esp, Me, you, Jarti, and Andy are left, with probably 2 scum in the group of 5 there. I think it's Esp and you.

Are you willing to lynch Esp today? Y/N

[mikeburnfire]

Let's finish this already.

vote: espeonage

[mikeburnfire]

unvote

Could it be Andy and BV? The way Andy threw the second vote on quick right after BV posted leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

[mikeburnfire]

Well, you're Syther. You would fit the 'stabbed' kill pretty well. And I still say that the way Prox claimed his role Day 1 is anti-town behavior. But for some reason I'm the only one who is willing to lynch you, and we have 2 days until deadline.

[mikeburnfire]

I think it would be a bit hard to get a read on BV2 since he's only made one real post.

[mikeburnfire]

My scumteam has been for the longest time Esp and Prox. I really believe that we should kill Prox, now BV.

[mikeburnfire]

I would be willing to lynch to avoid deadline, preferable Esp.

BV, what did you mean about not understanding why you're a nexus?

[mikeburnfire]

Vote: Espeonage

BV, I agree. That is another reason why you are likely to be scum. Not that you needed another one in my eyes.

[mikeburnfire]

Voting is a stupid idea right now. It's pretty clear to me that the mafia can't kill, so mislynches are the only way for them to win. If we don't vote, they can't win. At this point, I'd settle for a draw.

[mikeburnfire]

I don't think that's right. The say that you flipped the switch Night 1 and did nothing N2 and N3, so even if there was a one-night delay it would not be the reason.

Well, what do you guys think? Should we forfeit the lynch and try for a draw, or vote and try to win? If we keep voting, who is the lynch today?

[mikeburnfire]

Thanks for not being scum, Jarti. I didn't think you were scum, but I was getting worried that perhaps Gandalf did some last-minute heavily bussing on you before he died.

We could be in MyLo, but we could also be in 2v2, with scum unable to kill, and thus, unable to win unless one more townie gets lynched.

I'm not going to vote you today, and if you won't vote me today, then there are only three options
1) convince BV to unvote me and vote Andy
2) convince Andy to unvote me and vote BV
3) forfeit the lynch.

I've thought that Prox was scum for the longest time. The way he claimed his role in the beginning is a big tipoff to me, and I don't but his lame excuse. Andy's claim is weak, and both the flavor and role seemed to be copy-pasted from our other dead vanilla. I think they're both scum. And if I'm wrong and we're in MyLo, I propose making it LyLo.

[mikeburnfire]

Well, mafia wins. Good job idiots. At least this game is finally over.

[mikeburnfire]

Prox was scum. No shit.

I'm not so much mad that I lost as a SK, but I'm fucking pissed we let Jarti get away with his goddamn retarded role claim, and nobody would help me kill Prox. Scum won, but for all the wrong reasons.

Did you guys have a killing restriction, or are you just stupid and tried to kill me 5 nights in a row?

[mikeburnfire]

I knew it.
I figured there was a 3rd party out there.
But hey, what could we have done?

You could have TAKEN MY GODDAMN DRAW OFFER.

[mikeburnfire]

SORRY MIKE. I DONT DO DRAWS IF I CAN HELP IT. AND YOU WERENT TOWN, SO I WAS RIGHT.

Yeah, but if you had been less hasty, we COULD have had a 3-way tie.

But, yeah, next time.

[mikeburnfire]

My assumption is that the mafia tried to kill Xite twice, until the actual claim, then tried to kill me four times in a row. But that would make the scum stupid, so surely they had a restriction.

[mikeburnfire]

A draw is still better than a loss. I was seriously considering just full claiming, but then everyone just voted me. So meh.

[mikeburnfire]

I knew MBF wasn't town, at times it felt like everyone was following him blindly at times.

Because I was obviously not Mafia, of course.

[mikeburnfire]

Then all the other nights we spent trying to kill MBF

God, this makes me hate the scumwin even more. "Well, he seemed immune to our first three kills, but I've got a good feeling about number 4. He couldn't possibly be immune to NKs. Nope"

[mikeburnfire]

The original reasoning was that we were afraid that MBF would redirect our kill to us.

Damn, sabotaged by my own fake claim..