Mini 1005: Mafiaphobes! (Game over)

[Oso]

xvart, why are you suddenly confidant I am scum?

I think we are going to be heading very quickly into mass claim here.

Oso, are you saying you want vezo to claim his result and then you will claim yours?

I'm not exactly sure where you are heading with the above post but if that's the point then I am behind you. I'm willing to believe Kage got an innocent on you, he was outted yesterday and if he had a guilty he would have just come out with it at that point.

Correct. Like I stated above. I have pretty solid evidence of one scum. Solid enough that I don't think I'll have any problem convincing you folks to lynch.

In addition, because of what I know, if vezo names a certain player, then I will know vezo is lying. Not about being being a watcher (I believe that part of his claim), but about being a town watcher, because as town he would have zero reason to lie about it.

As to mass claim, that is where it's headed but let this play out a bit longer. Lynching scum today can put that off until later time if that's what everyone wants. What I know I don't want to happen is me ending up NKed and not giving you folks what I do know, in addition to what I think I know.

Edit before submit. @diddin, don't even think of it totallynotmafia snipped it for a reason.

[Sotty7]

My only issue is that now vezo knows he can't lie and squirm out of this and he will have to tell the truth. This plan will only work if Vezo isn't a watcher, but we already pretty much know he is because of the result he gave yesterday when it comes to Kage.

[Oso]

True and I believe he is a watcher. But I know of one person who has absolutely no possibility of being at Poirot's last night. vezo doesn't have to tell the truth but if he hits on this one player, then I can absolutely say with 100% certainty, the report of a second person is a lie.

[vezokpiraka]

The other person who targetted Poirot is xvart.

Now can you please tell us who is the misteryous person who are you talking about?

[Humble Poirot]

Damn it guys, I'm preparing my post and you already claimed and claimed and claimed... I'll remove the parts where I ask you to not claim till Aran comes in and haves his say... :/

Also, MC sucks.

[Humble Poirot]

Oso

, the point about the PR comment is that it's very hard to outguess a setup and it should not be our priority.

Right now, I'm going on diddin and vezo being town because neither of them have acted scummy enough to override a non-countered, Town PR claim. And there is no evidence in the thread as yet that they have lied about their role.

Yep, but diddin hasn't proven his role either.

I disagree, vezo. If you think it is another protective role then that throws diddin's claim into direct doubt.

Bingo! That's what is going through our minds.

..
I'm not dead. But you're saying scum visited me last night. I'm thinking you're scum RB and want to find yet another town PR.

You said that about diddin. Something I'd like to point out. Yesterday you jumped on me a bit because I said it was possible that diddin blocked Sotty from killing rather than protecting her. What changed that now you think diddin might be scum? If he did in fact protect her (and that is why we have no night kill for night 1) then by that reasoning alone, diddin should be getting a huge town read in your book.

If you think Sooty was saved from a kill night 1, then the only person that could have done it at this point is diddin.

Again, I'm working on the feeling that diddin is acting scummy, that scum probably wouldn't target me at night for a nokill (hence, they should be a town pr, I thought doc) which made diddin probable scum.

But, you have a point, there must be a reason for the lack of kill yesterday and, so far, it has to be diddin.

We're getting closer to the point where whoever targetted Oso must claim. But not yet, we need to know how aran feels about the game.

@Oso/Diddin:

I never actually considered 2 protective roles.

Usual methods aren't working in case you didn't notice. And I'm not advocating we use the PRs to lead us by the nose.

Quadz might've been a usual method but Tazaro was just scummy all over to avoid his lynch. He was posting 20 fluff posts per day and vote hopping like crazy.
@Oso's claim: What. The fuck. I did NOT see this coming. btw, I do not think Kage had a guilty result, I was just questioning his sanity.

I got a result last night (and the night before) so on the face of it, diddin's claim that he jailed me last night is false (please notice I didn't say he lied).

I do not understand.

From what people have said they did and saw last night, I can give town pretty solid evidence of one scum. There is also a certainty, if vezo names one particular player, that vezo himself is lying about the second visitor to Poirot last night, so we have a chance of getting two scum outed today with this. One if vezo is telling the truth (or at least not lying where it can be seen), and two if vezo names that one particular player.

Why would you claim all this instead of waiting for him to screw up, in case he was scum?

@Oso:

I seriously don't understand what the rush is. Aran still hasn't even posted. Why not wait to see what develops before going full out? Specially when you were the one holding the Ace up the sleeve.
------------------------------
q21 in his new post about SSBF seems too fabricated. Everything is wrong now. He is just diggin to find bad things and totally tunneling. One man at a time, the way of scum. He even tries to make SSBF look bad for not wanting a replacement to be replaced out near deadline when his was the biggest waggon.

@q21

Says he doesn't want to defend Tasky and then... defends Tasky. Its like he doesn't actually want to call Tasky town because that might serve to decrease his targets for a potential mislynch, but he knows he can look involved if he weighs in on the Tasky situation. What he ends up doing is getting caught between the two.

Dude... Do you even remember why you guys were going after Tasky? You were going at him because Tasky had asked some questions and that was supposed to be a mild attempt to end the rvs (which according to vezok, meant scum).

What you're doing is terrible. You're dismissing the whole context of situations and going for the A did B -> that must be a scumtell.

In context there was little to no reason to believe Tasky was scummy outside of the issues raised around those questions. Friend was defending him with respect to that, but still made sure to say he still thought Tasky might be scummy.

But of course he did... No good player is 100 % sure. It's like when I argued with Oso about his supposed case on Kagelord. I thought it was flawed but that didn't mean he couldn't be scum. It just meant that I would figth against his lynch unless I agreed with it.

You're mildly trying to paint people as scum with arguments that can be twisted either way to your convinience.

Firstly, I didn't say you were obfuscating I said you may be.

"I didn't say you kill unborn children and choke their pregnant mothers, I just said you might be"

I migth be doing anything so what's the point of unfounded accusations but to make someone look bad without actually commiting to it? Another trait of scum.

Secondly, I was not on that wagon. At no point on Day 1 did I vote for Tasky.

I misunderstood. I meant you were on the waggon the last day.

The worst thing is that many of the things you say now, you had the opportunity to say in the past and didn't.

Maybe in game time I had the opportunity, but in RL time I didn't.

I know you can be busy but when you're actually here you don't seem to pay too much attention then. You are just, in my pov, fabricating a case with anything you can find forgetting about the rest of the game.
--------------------------------------------

how about we stop relying on pr's to scumhunt and just scumhunt?

Dude, I missed you. Hope that surgery turned out right.

@xvart:

Hold your horses with connections. You know you can be wrong. Let's try to find scum before we start linking so many people together.
--------------------------------------------

xvart, why are you suddenly confidant I am scum?

I think we are going to be heading very quickly into mass claim here.

Perfect for scum unless this is PR heavy.
--------------------------------------------

Did anyone else see what Kage said before it got snipped? It might be game relevant, but I don't want to post it without the mod's consent.

Yes, I saw it but it's not up to us to consider it it. If it modified in any way how we think it would be considered cheating.
----------------------------
I did some research of Kagelord's posts since day 2 (when he already had a result)

For the moment, I'll say that I'm feeling a bit better about Oso thanks to his late D1 posts. In my book, he's moved up to just plain neutral.

And Oso, I'm sorry you feel that way about my semi-claim position right now, but please be patient. It is very likely that I will end up fully claiming either D3 or D4 if I make it that far.

All I can say is that, even though my role didn't let me know Oso's alignment, I think he is town right now and would rather see a Tazaro lynch.

[/quote]

From my point of view, all this points to a town result from him. It's too bad that we have no information about sanity.

Mod: Does sanity flip or it's a hidden attribute even after death?

------------------------
Edit after the new events.
I still don't know why you needed to claim BEFORE vezok instead of trying to get him in a lie. Also, as sotty said
we have evidence that Vezok is a watcher and lying about his results would not be very smart as scum.

I still need clarification regarding the fact that you got a result despite diddin's jailkeep.

I'm strongly considering voting diddin.

xvart doesn't need to claim for now.

[xvart]

@sotty, 748 - i messed up. i had four oruginaly but had ssbf listed twice, and couldn't figure out who the fourth was supposed to be (forgot about q21 even being in the game). i meant there were four probables (got confused by my notes) by role reveals and town hunting: you, diddin, ssbf, and q21. and humble, these aren't connections to each other but more of process of elimination (and lol at the part about me knowing i can be wrong),

xvart.

[Humble Poirot]

On hindsight, I'm dazzled. There's a lot of things that might have happened and we'll have to hear a xvart claim today. There's too many angles to the situation and I need some clarifications. I'd still like Aran to come in an have his say first (checking his profile, he has been around).

I'm going to go ahead and say that these three are scum: diddin, ssbf, sotty, assuming that ara is lyncher. i am confident on any of their lynches. however, we do need to sort out the ara business, are we in lylo? i don't have the mental function now to do the projections and math.

if diddin flips scum it implicates sotty as partner and that leaves ssbf as the third by town hunting everyone else. the only wildcard is ara, which might screw my reads up.

@sotty, 748 - i messed up. i had four oruginaly but had ssbf listed twice, and couldn't figure out who the fourth was supposed to be (forgot about q21 even being in the game). i meant there were four probables (got confused by my notes) by role reveals and town hunting: you, diddin, ssbf, and q21. and humble, these aren't connections to each other but more of process of elimination (and lol at the part about me knowing i can be wrong),

I do not follow. First I thought you were going in one of your "I guess the whole team so If I'm rigth I'll be awesome" like you did with quadz + ssbf+ diddin.

I understood how if diddin flipped scum sotty

migth

be implicated but I don't understand your clarification at all.

who's probable by hunting? Who's probable by role reveal? What are the connections?

[xvart]

Yes, typing is challenging with only one hand and I.m not getting thoughts clear. I'll have something more clear and substantial (and less confusing) when it's time for me to claim.

xvart.

[Oso]

xvart, why are you suddenly confidant I am scum?

I think we are going to be heading very quickly into mass claim here.

Perfect for scum unless this is PR heavy.

Bingo. We are PR heavy. Unless some of us claimed folks are flat lying.

We can still wait on Aranneas but I'll go ahead and do as I promised.

Full Claim:Town Tracker

(to go along with my neighbor status).

Night 1-I tracked Poirot. He didn't visit anyone. Thinking here was nights 1&2, I was going to track my neighbors and see if I couldn't find some way to trust them before any or all of us were lynched or NKed. I didn't track diddin night 2 as planned because of his claim. I believed him when he made it. I believe it now.

Night 2-I tracked Sotty7. She visited diddin.

VOTE: Sotty7

I believe that she blocked diddin last night. That is why I was able to get results last night despite being jailed. diddin got blocked.

The short version of why I feel this way. No nightkill night 1. Only that we can point to that prevented it was diddin's claimed jailing of Sotty7. Whether you think it prevented Sotty from being killed or killing is irrelevant as far as diddin's action goes because diddin's action prevented

SOMETHING

. Unless you believe scum are pulling some sort of gambit by not killing night 1, diddin is town.

The only reason for anyone to visit diddin as town would be to verify alignment. Not even to role block in my opinion because it would be like blocking a claimed doctor (which is pretty much what diddin is).

Scum have every reason to block him though if they can. He might be jailing either of the other 2 claimed PRs (vezo,Kagelord) so diddin has to be neutralized in some way before they can try to kill either of the other two.

That was short version detailing the conclusions I reached. I'll post a longer version that details my thinking if you folks don't mind stepping in to my head for a bit. And it gives time for you folks to chew over what I said and ask questions if you want. There are some holes in this and I will address them in the longer post.

[Add on before submit]As to why I was so adamant about vezo giving his result, TOO MANY PRS (<- I know, I have to stop saying that ). But it was the truth, if he named Sotty as the second person, then he was outright lying and also, with all the PRs running around at night, I wanted to make sure it wasn't me he had tagged. The way this is turning out, I wouldn't be surprised if somehow I wasn't redirected. I needed to confirm that I wasn't. The only difference that would have made really was I'd be going after Poirot right now instead of Sotty if I had been the second person vezo saw last night.

[Humble Poirot]

I'm not used to Roleblocking roles being blocked. That leads to complex action resolutions. I usually go for RB can't be blocked but what you say makes sense and might explain things. Also, I'm used to people being informed if they were blocked.

Mod? Do players get this type of info?

I confirm what Oso said. I did not visit anyone night 1.

Sotty needs to claim ASAP.

I still can't imagine how Vezok would lie as scum about his watch. It would serve no purpose. If vezok was scum, he would know who his partners were actioning on and avoid going for the same person. He would try to find a PR and have no qualms about outing them when asked. My point is that your trap wasn't very likely to succeed even if he was scum for his best bet is to play the role.

So far:

Confirmed Roles:

Cop(Kage), 2 dead townies(quadz, Tazaro).

claimed:

tracker(Oso) + watcher(Vezok) + Jailkeeper(diddin) + (...)xvart + (...)sotty.

4 unknown:

(Aran, q21, SSBF, HP).

And I'm trying not to wifom myself with the setup (sanities, scum roles, Town PRs). We never know how mods think. The closest thing we might do is research games where he has played to see what influences he might have (and that's not really helpful either). That's what I did when I was trying to investigate what he thought about neighbors although I didn't find anything relevant.

[Oso]

I still can't imagine how Vezok would lie as scum about his watch. It would serve no purpose. If vezok was scum, he would know who his partners were actioning on and avoid going for the same person. He would try to find a PR and have no qualms about outing them when asked. My point is that your trap wasn't very likely to succeed even if he was scum for his best bet is to play the role.

Agree with most of that. You have to consider the secondary reason in there, I was also trying to confirm that I wasn't the second person that vezo saw (see the edit before submit in my last). My part of the deal in this is come completely clean about my results, my role and my thinking. That was pretty much inherent when I asked for vezo results before giving my own.

So, you guys are going to get it all. Including all primary, secondary, tertiary reasoning. What I know, what I think I know, what I suspect and what I am keeping an eye out for. I've taken what I have as far as I can on my own. So, I'm giving it to the game and see what you guys can do with it.

[Oso]

Apologies, this is going to be a bit long and it may rehash some of what I have said before (and this is just up to my last post, any info that comes out while I am writing this isn't going to be included).

What I know, that you folk know.

The deaders and their alignments.
Vezo is a claimed watcher.
diddin is a claimed Jailkeeper/Neighbor
I am a claimed Tracker/Neighbor
Poirot is a Neighbor
----
diddin jailed Sotty7 Night 1 (action, from what we can see in the thread so far, prevented a kill in some manner)
KG investigated me Night 1 (results ambiguous)
vezo watched me. (found KG visited me)
I tracked Piorot (he stayed home)
quadz08 lynched
There was no Night 1 kill
----
diddin jailed me Night 2 (action failed)
vezo watched Poirot (finds KG and xvart visited)
xvart visited Poirot (action unkown)
KG visited Poirot (investigation unkonwn)
I tracked Sott7 (she visited diddin)
Sotty7 visited diddin (suspected by me as a scum roleblock but action unknown to the rest of the thread)
Tazaro Lynched
KageLord Night Killed

What I know that you folks don't know

Nothing. If I know it as true to the best of my ability in regards to my role, you folks know it too.

What I think I know.

Diddin is exactly what he says he is:Town Watcher in addition to being a neighbor with myself and Poirot. So far we not only have evidence in the thread that his ability works (no Night 1 kill) we also have no evidence in the game that contradicts what he has said, other than his play might be called into question but, in my opinion, that doesn't get anywhere near justifying overturning his claim.

Poirot: Going to go out on a limb here and say he's town. He has been the focus of considerable night activity and in the process, nothing has come of that that would point to his being scum. His play, while I would consider it borderline, isn't outright scummy. I have had my disagreements with some of his reasoning (and his skepticism of some of my reasoning) but that isn't scummy. Just irritating to me personally.

xvart: also leaning strong town. Pretty much because of his play so far. He puts thoughts into his post and doesn't seem adverse to changing or modifying his positions based on new information or a different interpretation of his post by another player. By far, in my opinion, the only player that deserves "Obvious Town" based on his play alone. But someone I am keeping a watch on. Why have IGMY on him? Paranoia mainly. I have no doubt that vezo is a watcher but I do have some doubts about his alignment at this point. That relates to xvart in that vezo tagged him looking over Poirot last night. If vezo flips scum at some point, I'm going to have to look back at xvart. Call me a paranoid bugger but I don't like coincidences and that vezo and xvart both chose to look at Poirot last night is a coincidence. I know they happen and that they do quite frequently (diddin's save/block on Night 1 is a good example from this game) but I still try and look for enemy action in them. The good side of that is that xvart previously expressed some doubt about Poirot so his presence there (as a Town PR) is easily explainable depending on what role he ultimately cops to. Not so vezo, but I'll get to that in a bit.

Sotty7: Scum role blocker. Diddin had a successful action Night 1 and not on Night 2. The simplest way to explain this is that he lied about Night except I know that Sotty7 visited him on Night 2. Assuming he did prevent the kill Night 1 (either through his save or his block) the simplest reason now becomes that he was blocked by Sotty, preventing his Jailing of me from being successful. I'm willing to listen to Sotty's explanation but I have to be honest, it's going to take a major amount of decent reasoning to get me off this. If Sotty is town, she knows there is a decent chance that diddin saved her from a night kill so any doubts she had about his alignment should have been put on the back burner until she had more evidence that pointed to him being scum, at least in my opinion. She certaily shouldn't have been out blocking him (the assumption I'm making). The easiest and simplest explanation is what I put forth yesterday, she KNOWS he prevented the night kill because she was the scum tapped to make it. Visting and blocking diddin makes no sense as town at that point but it makes a lot of sense if you are scum and you need to make sure the JK is not jailing the unknown PR so that he remains Nightkillable and you can off him before he gives any role related results. Is there a hole in my theory, yes there is. There is the possibility my conclusions are wrong because I have based them on incomplete information or have made a wrong guess based on the information that is there.

vezo: Number 2 on the scum parade. Why? Why the hell was he watching Poirot last night instead of KG or diddin? Answer: Denyability. Only reason I can think of. Town Watcher should have been been watching either KG or diddin like a hawk. Scum watcher wouldn't want to get near either one of them so they don't have to give out any info and possibly make a mistake. Easiest way to do that is avoid watching them altogether and choose someone else to watch. Whether vezo lucked out and got yet another town role exposed or was using that to help set up xvart for an innocuous RC in addition to avoiding KG and diddin, is yet to be seen and really can be looked at down the road. But this possibility is why I am keeping an eye on xvart. But I will stress, xvart remains firmly in my 'town' pile as of this moment.

q21: Would be my third choice right now and the weakest scum read in my pile right now. He's not off enough to warrant a lynch out of hand but he has lurked around pretty much during the game and I would be fully in favor of pressurizing him enough to get some activity out of him after the rest of this is dealt with. In all honesty, he has landed in my scum pile by default of his lurking. I haven't concentrated on his post too much so far because the main focus of my game started off as trying to get something to use on my neighbors to either trust or distrust them and got sidetracked from that point.

Aranneas: Again, like q21 but more so. Since jay flaked so early in the game, I haven't given his posts the attention I should have so I have even less of a read on him than I do q21.

SSBF: Dead neutral. He has gotten some attention from me in reading the thread and the main problem I have with him is pretty much the same as I have had with Poirot. His playstyle irritates me a bit, but he hasn't, in my opinion, done anything particularly scummy, or particularly town either. I can see where some of his ideas can bite town in the ass (dealing in absolutes as seems to be his habit being one of them) but scum? No, not at this time.

So, lynch Sotty. She's scum.

Take a good look at vezo and decide based on his answers of why he is playing watcher the way he is and decide if he is scum. I'd lynch him right now if for some reason folks don't want to lynch Sotty, but I can see where others might want to hold off.

Past that? Too far into the future and that is pretty much my belief as to the state of the game at the moment.

[diddin]

Vote: Sotty

I have a STRONG feeling Oso is town based on Kage, as I think he would have been voting Oso had he gotten a guilty and the likelihood of cop sanity is too little to care. Oso's reports explain my failed jailkeep as well as the no kill night 1.

I am also beginning to doubt Vezo's claim, mainly due to the faact that it is common sense for a watcher to watch a claimed PR, and instead he watches Humble? Not even vezo's VIness can explain that.

Third spot I'm unsure about, we can think about that later.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@q21: How come you were able to interact with the game more Day 1 then Day 2? I don't remember you announcing any sort of V/LA's Day 2.

---

Has he now? When? I haven't seen that. He talked in his first post (where he voted Tazaro) about some of the last posts and then poof.

I'm assuming that you're talking about if he has talked about other people. Am I reading you right?. If so, here is where he goes after other people then you and Tazaro:

ISO: 0: The same post where he voted Tazaro, he also attacked diddin and gave him a FoS. He also goes after vezokpiraka as well.
ISO: 2: Attacks diddin a little here as well.

Granted, it isn't really that much, but it is something.

Why was he pro-town?

I personally thought his case on Tazaro (At least early on) was decent and showed evidence supporting his case on Tazaro. And this:

Would you folks feel comfortable summarizing the neighbour chat from last night for our benefit? Why/why not?

Sounds like a good idea here. Unless the mod forbid us from letting that happen, this could give us information we may never know about if this didn't happen and I believe those information could be beneficial to the town.

But to be honest, thinking about it more, Aranneas is more of a null read to me. For example, I really hated his attack on you and felt it was severely reaching and especially unconvincing.

---

Anyway, onto my analysis of the Tazaro's bandwagon:

Tazaro

(6) Aranneas,

diddin

,

q21

, Super Smash Bros. Fan,

KageLord

,

vezokpiraka

Confirmed Townies

Town Reads

Scum Reads

Tazaro and KageLord are confirmed townies. As for me, no need to analysis myself when I should be looking at other people, that's for you to judge.

Aranneas:

Started out strong in his case on Tazaro but I'm surprised he makes little mention of Tazaro after ISO: 2 untl ISO: 12 and to be honest, I'm not sure why that's the case. He probably got side-tracked going after Humble Poirot. So to be honest, I'm pretty null. Positive already mentioned, with the negative being that he didn't consistency push for Tazaro's lynch Day 2 even thought he sounds like he's in full support in it.

diddin:

Probably the most well-developed case on Tazaro. Unlike Aranneas, he was somewhat consistent with attacking Tazaro and actually mentioned that he was suspicious of him before voting, so it doesn't feel like he voted him out of the blue. Based on his support of the Tazaro's lynch, I'm getting a town read from him alone (Which is supported by his jailbreaker claim, which I believe as well).

q21:

Agree with others that his vote on Tazaro sounds like it came out of nowhere. He makes no previous reference to Tazaro Day 2 before placing a vote on him. I can only remember him doing two things to support the case against Tazaro:

1. Parrot other people's reason for voting Tazaro in ISO: 25.
2. Say that AtE isn't going to win him any points.

To be honest, I don't like how he coast throughout the entire day without further push of his lynch. This sounds like scum trying to gain town cred without doing much to support the lynch himself. He's a good lynch candidate.

vezokpiraka:

His hammer on Tazaro was no short of lynch-worthy on him. He didn't even check the thread before placing a vote on Tazaro. Not checking the thread usually results in bad things for the town, especially when it comes to votes. Like q21, this vote was seriously surprising, but he's even worse then q21 because he doesn't even provide

one

semi-decent reason for voting Tazaro. Another solid lynch for today.

---

Currently I suspect vezokpiraka, q21, and to a lesser extend, Sotty7. After reading Oso's latest major post, it kind of clicks to me that Sotty7 may very well be scum and I can see the arguments for Sotty7-scum. This also renforce my scum read on vezokpiraka, which I once again agree from Oso. Combining that with his very scummy play and he deserves to be lynched today.

Vote: vezokpiraka

[Sotty7]

Well I am a roleblocker. I have blocked diddin on both nights which is mostly why I couldn't confirm if he blocked me or not. I didn't buy his JK claim and still don't considering I could have easily blocked the night kill on night one.

All these power roles can't be town. It is too freaking ridiculous.

Vote: diddin

[xvart]

Sotty is scum, but I don't agree with Oso's reasoning.

Consider this post:

Okay this is what I was looking for, you seem to trust him, if only a little bit so I am willing to swallow that. With his claim and no counter, it makes the most sense to me that he protected me from a kill and so is probably telling the truth.

This doesn't sound like a town roleblocker response with her inside information, especially if there are

two

supposed town roleblockers. Why would a town roleblocker trust the results of another town roleblocker?

You lynch me and I flip town that doesn't tell you a thing about diddin's role at all. You don't seem to think I am scum, so why are you suddenly embracing the POE?

Furthermore, this post makes Sotty obvscum. Sotty's flip would tell us

everything

about diddin's role.

Unvote
Vote: Sotty7

xvart.

[Sotty7]

No it wouldn't. Just because I am a town roleblocker doesn't mean diddin couldn't be a town JK. Keep in mind this was on day one. Things have progressed well since then, I think diddin has to be a scum JK.

I am also someone that likes to hide my role when I have one. I will only claim if needed, like just now. I don't breadcrumb. The only exception to the rule is the cop guilty/innocent crumbs.

[xvart]

That's exactly my point though, your (town) flip would tell us that diddin was scum no questions asked since it is highly highly unlikely that there would be two town aligned roleblocking roles. And if you flip scum, it makes diddin's claim more likely to be true. If you both are roleblockers like you both claim to be, you are not on the same side. Knowing what you knew at the time, there is no way someone aligned with town would say that these circumstances would yield no information about the other's alignment.

xvart.

[Sotty7]

That's out guessing the mod though isn't it?

Looking at this set up, I can already see that this mod isn't one you can predict.

[Oso]

..
I am also someone that likes to hide my role when I have one. I will only claim if needed, like just now. I don't breadcrumb. The only exception to the rule is the cop guilty/innocent crumbs.

Not buying that explanation. You may very well do that, but it fails in this case, in my eyes, as instead of giving me a reason to disbelieve my theory yesterday by saying that you had blocked diddin Night 1, you attacked me instead. Granted, I have demonstrated I am bulldog in this game when I get something in my head it is not easily dislodged but did you think I would give your claim no consideration?

[Sotty7]

Why would I be thinking about claiming when you attacked me? Sure, I would have claimed if I reached lynch-1 but not before. I prefer to debate points, in my mind claiming should happen when you are in danger of being lynched and there is no way out of it. Then you claim your role so the town has all possible info before lynching. I know not a lot of people buy into this thought process as proven by this game, but that's how I play. I'm a little old school like that.

There was no part yesterday that I felt in any danger from your attack Oso because it was so bad and just ignored a chunk of what could have happened. You stretched it to suit your conclusion on me instead of looking at everything objectively. However if the town had picked it up and ran with it I would have claimed. To me, your reasoning was very poor and it felt like you were attempting to rid the town of me because you were worried that I could have been seen as a confirmed townie that was protected. So instead you attacked me. Your scumminess yesterday doesn't stop diddin from being scummy, but the set up continues to confuse me.

Why else do you think I was talking about mass claim today? I am starting to believe we have

very few

straight VTs in this game.

[vezokpiraka]

Do you know why I didn't watch the claimed PRs?
Because I thought the doctor will go after them.
I was sure KG was going to be doc protected.
I considered diddin scummy and I wouldn't watch him because even if he was town scum won't kill him.

I watched Oso night 1 cause he gave me strong town vibes.
I watched Humble Poirot the second night because of that too.

Also why did xvart visited humble ?

[Humble Poirot]

Well, I hereby present the award of best post in the game so far to Oso for #761

clap, clap, clap. (standing ovation)

I think that you have pretty much nailed two scum.

If that's the case, there's no way in hell you're scum. Which is great.

You had me pretty much convinced to vote sotty after that post, only one thing about a possible PR that xvart could have made me think diddin was scum, but then I looked at the whole game and decided it wasn't likely based on xvart's lack of conviction in one of his cases.

@diddin: At this point, I feel you're 99.99% town which will be confirmed when sotty flips scum RB. Instead of thinking that kage brings credibility to Oso, I prefer to think that his claim when he was not pressured (which contributed to finding the diddin or sotty issue) earns him almost infinite town points.

to be honest, about Vezok's watch over me, I kind of dismised it due to the fact that I was afraid I would die (thinking some of the PRs might be scum) and wasn't putting myself in a watcher's feet. Added to that, I've come to expect bizarre things from vezok.
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Now comes a poor and incomplete claim of what I believe to be a resigned player.

Blocking diddin and not trying to destroy him after the no kill was weird. Specially after he claimed Jailkeeper.

Okay this is what I was looking for, you seem to trust him, if only a little bit so I am willing to swallow that. With his claim and no counter, it makes the most sense to me that he protected me from a kill and so is probably telling the truth.

This makes no sense at all in context. He unvoted because Oso trusted diddin after the claim?

If sotty believed diddin was town, then there had to be YET ANOTHER cause for no kill day 1, which probably had to be a doc, but doc + JK + RB makes little to no sense.

I'm going to be doing an in-depth read of sotty's ISO later to check what connections does he have but, overall, a vezok connection makes sense in the way he tries to distance himself but do not attack him too much.
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Xvart's find about him flipping town and that meaning nothing about diddin is great.

No it wouldn't. Just because I am a town roleblocker doesn't mean diddin couldn't be a town JK. Keep in mind this was on day one. Things have progressed well since then, I think diddin has to be a scum JK.

It was not on day 1, it was on day 2. Still doesn't make sense, as I explained, after the no kill of night 1.

I am also someone that likes to hide my role when I have one. I will only claim if needed, like just now. I don't breadcrumb. The only exception to the rule is the cop guilty/innocent crumbs.

No one asked for a crumb. But it's funny how you're trying to cover your tracks this way.

That's out guessing the mod though isn't it?

Looking at this set up, I can already see that this mod isn't one you can predict.

Oh, so what good would counter claims be? What if 3 people claimed doc? lame.

Overall, don't feel bad, you had me totally fooled. diddin and Oso specially, deserve the merit for nailing you.
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I'm assuming that you're talking about if he has talked about other people. Am I reading you right?.

Yes, I'm talking about that. Those were not cases, just commenting on one or two things that had happened involving vezok(scummy and anti-town), tazaro(anti-town at that point), diddin(somewhat scummy at that point). You can think that someone is town for the first post where they talk about recent events without much else, specially when there's no development whatsoever.

Why vote the possible scum watcher and not the most likely scum RB? We can tie the hands of the watcher but we can't do the same with the RB.
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Do you know why I didn't watch the claimed PRs?
Because I thought the doctor will go after them.

which doctor?

I was sure KG was going to be doc protected.

by whom? Jailkeeper diddin?

Also why did xvart visited humble ?

How can he explain without claiming? Do you want him to?
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Vote Sotty7

.

As for the probable third member (Based on the amount of PRs). I was in between q21 and Aran. Xvart has been a town read all along and, as I said, I don't think scum would go at me for a no killing action (Specially both scum). I know what Oso said about setting up a claim is a possibility though. SSBF is also a town read but I'm worried about the fact that he would not react to the whole diddin-sotty-both-blocking-roles and instead go for Vezok. q21 has lurked and stayed under the radar, but his late attack on SSBF has a concerning air of fabrication. Aran has also fabricated a terrible case against me and then dissapeared. Both need inquiry. Both need to be active.

As for the 3 neighbors being town (which now I'm certain), I'm really surprised. Of course, you don't know my alignment but it's good enough for me to use the night chat confortably (which I ran away from in the past)

I'm still debating if xvart should claim or not. Now that I think he is not a role that would hurt town, if claimed, I believe that whatever information his role can provide is better than dying. Specially when there's so many town targets.

My idea is to force Vezok to watch Oso tonight. If he doesn't, he gets lynched. Oso and diddin can do whatever they like.
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Mod: We need a votecount and a prod on Aranneas.

Regards,
A happy Humble Poirot.

[Humble Poirot]

I forgot about something.

If diddin blocked sotty night 1 then sotty is lying about blocking diddin because he himself had to be blocked for a no kill to happen.

I mean...

Night 2 -> Diddin blocks Oso but Oso gets to act because diddin was blocked by sotty.
Night 1 -> diddin blocks Sotty. no kill. If sotty had blocked diddin, then there should've been a kill.

That leads to the conclusion that sotty blocked someone else night 1.

I don't know if we can do something with it but, it's there.

Also, Sotty, I'm expecting you to answer who stopped the nightkill on night 1.