Scummies Invitational (OVER!!!)


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Post Post #400 (ISO) » Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:17 am

Post by Hoopla »

TODAY'S AGENDA


Lynch Incognito
Lynch KMD
Lynch poptajo

Am open to SpyreX and Slicey, but those three need to get pumped through ASAP.

The fact we've got one scum down puts us in a significantly safer position, opening up options for big lynch numbers today or tomorrow. Remembering there is that yucky one-shot role that stops us at one lynch, I think it's a worthwhile idea to lynch big numbers today or tomorrow to try and chew it up early. If it doesn't come on D2 or D3 during these days (or we lynch it), we can play the game normally with one-lynch days from thereon in, neutralizing it's influence. If it comes today or tomorrow, great. We have a bunch of options for endgame depending on our numbers and the scum numbers.

It is still very likely to me we're playing in a 3:12 set-up. Lets get on with it today and power through some lynches.

Vote: Incognito
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Post Post #401 (ISO) » Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:17 am

Post by curiouskarmadog »

vote imaginality
, pretty sure scum is here.

also, would have no problem with a Spy lynch..I have never seen him play this way before.

I still do no agree with the incognito wagon.
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Post Post #402 (ISO) » Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:07 am

Post by Kmd4390 »

Vote Vollkan
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Post Post #403 (ISO) » Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:34 am

Post by imaginality »

Hoopla said:
Remembering there is that yucky one-shot role that stops us at one lynch, I think it's a worthwhile idea to lynch big numbers today or tomorrow to try and chew it up early. If it doesn't come on D2 or D3 during these days (or we lynch it), we can play the game normally with one-lynch days from thereon in, neutralizing it's influence. If it comes today or tomorrow, great. We have a bunch of options for endgame depending on our numbers and the scum numbers.
QFT. I agree with this approach.

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Post Post #404 (ISO) » Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:35 am

Post by SpyreX »

I'm not surprised that Empking was scum. I AM a little surprised that he was a goon considering the Empking defense squad.

IF Tajo, Incog, KMD and Slicey go I'll decend to the darkness without too much issue. Remember Tenchi for the future though.

Vote: Incognito
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Post Post #405 (ISO) » Fri Aug 13, 2010 6:46 am

Post by Kmd4390 »

Not seeing Incog as scum.
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Post Post #406 (ISO) » Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:00 am

Post by Hoopla »

Kmd4390 wrote:Not seeing Incog as scum.
What's the vollkan case again?
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Post Post #407 (ISO) » Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:47 am

Post by Kmd4390 »

Kmd wrote:The first thing that caught my interest on Vollkan is actually why I don't think Vollkan and Hoopla are scum together even though both are scummy. Vollkan asked what Hoopla wanted to accomplish with the survey. He didn't answer the survey, but he didn't give his thoughts on the fact that Hoopla posted it. While it doesn't look cautious at first glance, it really is. If he is scum, he isn't answering the survey because he doesn't know what Hoopla is looking for.

The next thing he does is attempt to discredit me when I say he may be scum. He doesn't ask why like a normal person would. He just says I'm useless and he doesn't understand why I didn't elaborate. No request to elaborate, just a mention of the fact that I didn't.

On Hoopla, the survey kind of reminds me of the new "RQS" trend that I strongly dislike. It distracts from actually placing votes and calling people scum and tends to stall actual reads from occuring. The other thing it does is make some people's subconcious think "this player is town because they are asking questions". I can see Hoopla doing this intentionally. I wouldn't say the same for many players, but Hoopla, yeah.

So yeah, I think Vollkan is scum. Hoopla, while scummy, is town if Vollkan is scum.
Kmd4390 wrote:
Vollkan wrote:Ignoring for starters the fact that, if you had any decent reasons for thinking that I "may be scum" (which, objectively, applies to everybody, thus making it useless), you should have said them yourself rather than waiting for a "request", it's nothing short of ridiculous that you would now attack me because I didn't "ask" you to explain yourself with a question-mark, rather than doing as I did which was attacking a seemingly redundant statement by you.
The point is that you were quick to pull the trigger on me without really inquiring what it was that I had on you. It's like shooting me with a pistol because you see me holding what may be another pistol or may be a squirt gun.
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Post Post #408 (ISO) » Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:17 am

Post by Ojanen »

I did a re-skim. Observations coming now as I have drops of time to type/iso some stuff.
First thing on Incognito: I didn't find his play all that scummy upon reread... (I wish I did, deep down l'm a sheep longing to stay a part of groups.) The emotion at one point against myko seemed sorta mildly townish and otherwise it was pretty neutral. BUT his peak wagon before Kinetic was lynched (Hoopla, me, myko, Kinetic, q21) I feel pretty strongly is free of mafia, which is super unusual if Incog is town. I'm just looking at the shape of the swing.

Kinetic 3 (vollkan, Slicey, q21) - Incog 2 (Hoopla, Ojanen) (at 2 votes also: imaginality, SpyreX vollkan, q21 before Emp switches)
Emp
=>Kinetic 4 Incog 2
Myko=>Kinetic 4 Incog 3
Incog=>Kinetic 5 Incog 3
Kinetic=>Kinetic 5 Incog 4
imaginality=> Kin 6 In 4
tajo=> Kin 7 In 4
q21
switch
=> Kin 6 In 5
Spy=> Kin 7 In 5
Aand Kinetic self-lynches.

Emp's vote can't be read as Incog defence in that vote dynamic as much as liking to get rid of Kinetic, who hates him.
Let's see. imaginality, tajo and Spy are the only possibilities for extra mafia influence explicitly benefiting Incog in this situation through wagoning town instead.
-Spy and Incog aren't mafia together. (I doubt Spy is at all, but I'll get to that a bit later.)
-imaginality and Incog aren't mafia together (imaginality would have shut the hell up and not brought Incog to L-2 in the quickwagon just before deadline - he even had a perfect excuse due to Kiwi timezone)
=>tajo and Incog is the only possibility if there was explicit influence on wagons (
due to Incog
, not just getting rid of Empking hater/very strong player). this is possible. tajo's reason for liking Incog as town (the emotion to myko) wasn't horrible though.
so my passion about it has decidedly waned.
It might be most cost effective to just lynch him now because there's a block with clear towns wanting it and wanting it now without wasting time and it's an information wealth either way. but let me type out some other stuff, too.

will be continued in a sec.
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Post Post #409 (ISO) » Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:38 am

Post by Incognito »

Ok, so if I'm going to be Today's lynch, you can bet I'm not going down easily, and I'm going to do the best job I can to ensure that every dripping morsel of information is gotten from my lynch. Because seriously, I
am
pro-town and this wagon on me
is
crap.

To start off: I'd like every person voting me currently to state their reasons. Likewise, I'd like every person who says they're NOT seeing me as scum to say WHY they say that also.
I'm not stupid to believe that all of the scum are voting me and all of the townies are supporting me - it's pretty obvious that there's probably some scum-support on my wagon and some scum-support off my wagon too.

I'm LESS concerned about Hoopla's and mykonian's reasons because they've stated them previously but I'm particularly concerned about imaginality's and SpyreX's reasons.

With respect to imaginality, you previously had the following to say about me:
Post 208, imaginality wrote:* Incognito I read as strongly town
Why am I suddenly lynch-worthy?

Yesterday you said my lynch was good because it might be "informational" - that's a decent reason Yesterday but that reason
TOTALLY DOES NOT FLY TODAY
especially since any mod-confirmed information that could be obtained from my lynch will take FOREVER to come about if we're doing multiple lynches. So why am I scum?




With respect to SpyreX, you previously had nothing but good stuff to say about me too. Then suddenly you're "vexed" because of one line from Yesterday, you stated the following with respect to lynches Yesterday:
Post 366, SpyreX wrote:This stops now.

We are not lynching anyone else today. Period.

The time for that was long past and the simple fact I threw down a vote because I was worried about 0 lynches sure as hell doesn't mean two.
...but yet you went ahead and voted me anyway when you KNEW I wouldn't be around to claim? Why? What's scummy about me now?

I'm starting off with this:

vote: SpyreX

12,000 FINGERS OF SUSPICION: imaginality/Hoopla


You guys claim I'm scum. Back it up with valid, legitimate reasons. Now.
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Post Post #410 (ISO) » Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:41 am

Post by Incognito »

Incidentally, I'll be at the Caff-Wagon over the weekend. I'll be back on 'Scum by Monday.
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Post Post #411 (ISO) » Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:48 am

Post by mykonian »

Ojanen wrote:This wagon would almost too good to be true if Incog is scum - we'd get so many likely towns from present people, even Slicey's piping.
tajo, that quote is a survival comment, not a softclaim.
This is a post to remember. Who on your wagon yesterday were scum, incog?

The only reason I'm not unvoting is because I believe we benefit from having a lot lynches today. I'm having my doubts, and my current first choice is never going to be quicklynched (vollkan is scum)
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Post Post #412 (ISO) » Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:12 am

Post by Incognito »

Probably my last post before the weekend.

mykonian, of the people on my wagon Yesterday, I'm suspicious of the three people I mentioned in my above post (SpyreX, Hoopla, and imaginality). Do I think it's likely that all three of them are scum together? Probably not. But I really wouldn't be surprised if 1 or maybe even 2 of those people are scum. I still think you and Ojanen are very likely town.

Quick reasons before I run off: SpyreX for the reasons I mentioned Yesterday along with the new reasons I pointed out above, imaginality for being lurky all during Day 1 and the contradiction I also pointed out above, and Hoopla for not scum-hunting at all Yesterday. You can read through her posts and you'll note that once she began attacking me, she pretty much completely stopped trying to figure people out and instead used her supposed Incog-hate to generate content. Could she be tunnel-visioned town? Sure. But I could see her being lazy scum too who just wanted to get her Incog mislynch in. She hasn't asked me a single question since she began voting me nor has she accounted for anything I've done since that time. That's pro-scum behavior.

Also, does anyone else find it weird that Hoopla brought up the idea that we should ONLY LYNCH ONE PERSON during Day 1 but then she goes ahead and tries to get me lynched too during Day 1 WITHOUT A CLAIM?

I'll be back on Monday to look things through more closely. mykonian, can you put together a case against vollkan in the meantime?
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Post Post #413 (ISO) » Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:18 am

Post by imaginality »

Unvote


Incognito's not scum. I wanted to see how he and others responded to this wagon on him. His response feels pretty genuine to me.

I think Ojanen's post is good, and I'm keen to read the 'more stuff' in her next post, especially re. SpyreX = town. I looked back on another game I was in with him and he was more active and helpful as town in that one, so I'm starting to have my doubts about him here.

More from me later.
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Post Post #414 (ISO) » Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:29 am

Post by Slicey »

Vote: SpyreX


Nothing has changed since the end of Day 1.
Taking a temporary retirement from playing mafia games... damn you invitationals.
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Post Post #415 (ISO) » Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:47 am

Post by Kmd4390 »

imaginality wrote:I wanted to see how he and others responded to this wagon on him.
Somehow, I doubt this was why you voted Incog.
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Post Post #416 (ISO) » Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:55 am

Post by Ojanen »

So, is Empking sneaky as scum?
There were 2 quick votes on ckd after myko's case (wagon: vollkan, myko, imaginality, kmd)
Empking 106 wrote:
FoS: CKD

Myk make somes good points and CKD is definitely doing some misrepresentation with regards to Myk but Hoopla is still by far the scummier of the two.
This reminded me strongly of the FoSsing instead of voting buddy, but it's an überbasic scumcliché.

In any case I took an interest to curiouskarmadog.

it seems to me ckd is less agressive towards Emp than others.
Playstyle self-description:
5.) passionate to the point of anger
This is true. He reacts strong.
ckd to myko wrote:well if there is going to be a lynch Day 1, it might as well be mine, you are going to be embarassed at the end of it, mykonian, curious what was your scummie for?
and when you say "X has just as much of a chance to be scum" and you want to policy lynch, that is not scummy hunting....I dont care what you say. have we ever played before? i could throw out some meta bullshit, but it is just that, bullshit.
ckd to me wrote:I think you are missing my point...if Kinetic flips scum that unvote and such a late date says something does it not?...so get off my fucking back about paying attention, I was just making a note.
but
ckd to empking after an easily vague and then false argument:
[Empking is saying ckd is misrepresenting stuff, the FoS post.]
[quote=""ckd"]who really is misrepresenting? and again...because people seem to be missing them:
[insert questions][/quote]
vollkan (not even ckd himself) asks Emp to quote the misreps and Emp does.
ckd posts a quote making the claim of misrep false and
ckd wrote:maybe we have different definitions of "never said that".
I haven't had time to comb ckd's posts thoroughly to find more direct retorts to attacks, if they exist. but there's a lightyear of difference in aggressivity of tone in how he talks to Emp here, from myko and me, at least.

ckd posts a wall that includes all this:
ckd wrote:[...]106, Empking states I was misrepresenting mykon, but never does not demonstrate how…only get an FOS from him
[...]
135, Empking posts and completely ignores my post to him….how the fuck did you win a scummie?
[...]
148, Empking follows mykon…again.
[...]
[...]and the people who joined it for bad reason (empking).
[...]
169, Empking makes a horrible post.
[...]
172, Kinetic is cool with lynching q21 and attacks Empking’s playstyle
[...]
My thoughts on scum at this point: Kinetic, Empking, and Pop (sorry bud, just got that mojo off of you) (if I had some money, I would lay down that there are 2-3 scum amongst this grouping.

Vote kinetic
All he says on Kinetic is that he likes Incog's vote on him, and he likes this vote on him:
Slicey wrote:Kinetic, what I don't understand is, is that you keep talking about how bad Empking is in other games and how much of a liability he is, yet you're not commenting on him in THIS game, which is what actually matters. Empking has made enough posts that you can comment on, whether you think it's townie posts or scummy posts, yet you have said nothing on him in this game. You're voting him and attacking him for nothing he's done in this game, but his meta and reputation alone.
For that, I will
Unvote, Vote: Kinetic
. I'm not liking anything he's saying
.

DINGDINGDING bullshit Kinetic wagon follower.
DINGDING major cognitive dissonance: 2-3 scum in Kinetic, Empking, populartajo (Kinetic and Empking scum together????)
DING scumbuddy as 2nd suspect, loads of points against Empking that lead nowhere?
ckd's answer to Kinetic a bit later wrote: I meant "attack" I put the post number there...if anyone reads the post it is obvious that you are attacking him, not defending him. I think my problem there (why I wanted to note the post for later) was (like Mykon) you are supporting a policy lynch on Day 1. yet I didnt see you actually touch on his scummy actions today. Empking usually sucks across the board, that is why I never join games with him in it. Because you are right that he does hurt the town...but I am not going to waste a lynch based on a policy of me not liking him in game (like mykon, that isnt scum hunting).
Now this particular game though, he actual has made some scummy maneuvers. I am not voting you because of your opinion of empking.
What exactly is the 2 last sentences supposed to mean, except inconsistent backpedaling?

After a while he switches from Kinetic to imaginality, stating that he agrees with Kinetic's vote which basically says nothing other than that Kinetic has mixed feelings about imaginality. ckd has now dropped Kinetic and Emp from lynch list.
Never takes a meaningful part in the wagons end of D1 again, while coming in to say:
ckd wrote:also about a half a page behind, I see that kinetic is at -1 and the vanilla claim....not sure what happened to push him to the lynch.
sure Imagin and pop have something to do with it.
still good with my vote.
..the wagon's reasons have not changed since he was advocating it.


TL;DR

-ckd sheeps on crapcase on Kinetic early, contradicts himself all over on it, retreats for non-plausible reasons, stays out of doing anything meaningful late D1.
-ckd treats Empking with markedly different tone to others
-Empking treats ckd like noobscum treats buddies

vote: curiouskarmadog
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Post Post #417 (ISO) » Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:04 pm

Post by Ojanen »

Little things I couldn't understand for the life of me:


@imaginality
imaginality 69 (referring to 65) wrote: Hoopla, are you voting Tenchi for contradicting himself in the post you quoted?
Hoopla said yes and you never came back to it. Why did you ask this?

@tajo
poptajo 72 wrote: Post 37 at 11:17 is kmd telling you to vote hoopla. Post 38 at 11:19 is vollkan justifying his random vote and answering to your accusation. Post 39 at 11:23 is you answering two lines to kmd (shouldn't have taken more than 20 secs) and not directing a single word to volkan, which leads me to think that you didnt read volkans post when writing your post.
So why did you take 6 minutes to answer kmd?
Why were you questioning SpyreX about this; what in here could possibly be scummy?

@Tenchi
Tenchi 130 wrote: At this point I read Mykonian's post 99 and I do agree that CKD's reactive playstyle post is scummy.
I will vote CKD if I need to be.
Ummmmm... you had your random vote on vollkan on. Why no vote ckd here, why only if need be?
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Post Post #418 (ISO) » Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:13 pm

Post by Ojanen »

SpyreX isn't getting lynched today, because I'm pretty sure he was the first to call out the crapcase on Kinetic in a substantial way; right after Empking's no-explanation Kinetic vote 30 hours to deadline (Kinetic at 4 votes, everyone else at 1 to 2, volatile vote climate) he posted this
spyrex 298 wrote: OR THIS ABOVE.
Seriously can we do this I can make lots of arguments however you want but if I can't have Slicey and or Tenchi I'd sure eat an empking.
Unvote, Vote: Empking
SpyreX 366 wrote:Take a shot if you want tonight q21 - I'm not going to cry if I die but a Kinetic town flip better be a damn bullseye on Empking.
I'm not naive about bussing and SpyreX has maneuvered lately pretty wildly on the getting lynches done front. But I don't see scum.
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Post Post #419 (ISO) » Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:32 pm

Post by SpyreX »

I'm actually having a night out on the town so don't expect too much but:

1.) Slicey votes under the guise "nothing has changed since d1". Roger that A++ effort would read again.
2.) Having good feelings about Incog evaporate real quick when its "I'm not claiming, you're all just the scum trying to find PR's (although I'm gonna spin this as not a PR claim promise)" If I felt really cool and decided to iso and you were silly enough to have ANY posts on site between that post and deadline you'd be lynched without conversation.
And sure there's "an issue" with me trying to get you lynched after saying there wouldn't be another lynch because GETTING ONE THROUGH was like pulling teeth and Kinetic opted to raise the "I'm town yo" flag before the flip and I loooove murderin people so you're damn straight I would have got that lynch through.

Today needs to be a swath of blood. I'd be willing to gamble ohh half the players out if I had my way. As it sits I want these wagons moving. 2 lynches isn't even enough. I want 3. I'd love 4 - hell I'd even jump on the sword as #5 if I could make that happen.
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Post Post #420 (ISO) » Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:38 pm

Post by SpyreX »

And if someone has some druthers and wants to invest a little time go back and look at how many people (and which ones) were on Kinetic for "policy lynching".

There IS 100% absolutely .nofoolin' another scum in there.
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I always lynch scum... sometimes they're just not mafia. :P

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Post Post #421 (ISO) » Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:08 pm

Post by vollkan »

Mykonian wrote: unvote vote incognito. Lets get the obvious lynches done fast. There is no use in waiting for the deadline. More lynches=more chance you are right.
Why is Incog an obvious lynch?
Kmd wrote: Vote Vollkan
As I recall, the only one of your points left standing (if you can call it that) against me was that I wasn't very nice to you when I said your post was useless. You're voting me on that?
Incognito wrote: To start off: I'd like every person voting me currently to state their reasons. Likewise, I'd like every person who says they're NOT seeing me as scum to say WHY they say that also.
I don't find you as scummy because I haven't seen anything in your play so far that I consider a scumtell? I'm not sure what you're after in terms of an explanation as to why I don't suspect you; that's just the default position. It's like asking why food goes to room temperature if you leave it out of the fridge.
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I lost a bet.
Posts: 14493
Joined: July 2, 2008

Post Post #422 (ISO) » Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:19 pm

Post by Kmd4390 »

Vollkan, you are assuming your defense changed my read of you and that I agree with your interpretation of the point you are listing.
KMD is the coolest dude who ever lost a bet to me - vonflare
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mykonian
mykonian
Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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mykonian
Frisian Shoulder-Demon
Frisian Shoulder-Demon
Posts: 11963
Joined: August 27, 2008

Post Post #423 (ISO) » Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:15 pm

Post by mykonian »

this post was made while I was tired. This makes me lazy.

@incog: it was the case before the case on you, yesterday.

@Vollkan. you ask a question that has already been answered in my previous post or the post before that. Read the thread first, and don't ask silly questions that won't find you scum anyway.

@Ojanen: thank you, well done.
unvote vote CKD
He's the first lynch today.
Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.
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Tenchi
Tenchi
Mafia Scum
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Tenchi
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Location: California, USA

Post Post #424 (ISO) » Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:21 pm

Post by Tenchi »

First of all I'm back. Second I have lots to read but I've kinda read the last day shenanigans. And I really think the last minute push on Incognito was full of craptasticness. I do not think that it was horribly put but I do not think Incognito's flip would be beneficial/informative to us (as opposed to CKD or Empking lynch).

I'm up for a CKD vote since I also think people chasing after Kinetic was a huge distraction from CKD's initial horrible posting eventhough Kinetic took a lot of fire for
his
initial posting as well.
Yes. That same Tenchi. :D

Reicheru and Tenchi begin to bond more, sending love letters to each other.

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