Mini 1023 - City Watch Mafia - Game Over!

[Mysterio]

Well, I'm still here. I might as well go back to work.

@Mystery:

You already claimed to have gotten reactions / discussion.

Yes, if you didn't notice, right after I claimed we had two pages of discussion about it, which I think finally took the game out of RVS. But it switched to RCing before those reactions could be fleshed out. However, since my last post, discussion has started up again.


Narsis is obviously jumping on the bandwagon. Even after being pressed, he has failed to give any reasoning for his vote on me. In post #197, he simply repeats yet again that he found me to be more scummy than anyone else. He's clearly appealing to the consensus that built up against me without bothering to actually explain his vote at all. There is also VasudeVa who is also bandwagoning. He jumped on the bandwagon against me, but then switched his vote to Narsis without explaining it at all. He then admits to wanting a bandwagon to form against Narsis in post #186. Not sure how much more transparent that vote could possibly be. You also have to wonder why he decided to vote for me, if he was simply going to change his vote to someone else when I was at L-1.

Putting a vote on Narsis would put him at L-1, so rather than do that I will

FoS: Narsis

. Please give us a clear explanation as to why you think I should be lynched.

@VasudeVa Why did you vote for me in the first place? Do you still think I'm scummy?

VOTE COUNT

Mysterio (5): KHG, Tasky, Narsis, jimfinn, FakeGod
Narsis (4): Plum, Budja, VasudeVa, Thor665
jimfinn (1): Chronopie
VasudeVa (1): TheButtonmen

Not Voting (1): Mysterio

With 12 alive, 7 votes are needed to lynch.

[VasudeVa]

I was voting for you, and now Narsis, in order to gather information about your alignment. Some pressure is needed to properly squeeze out a player's alignment, and I've been abusing my vote for that purpose. Bandwagoning is a legitimate strategy D1 as it is a good way to gather information. There is a way to differentiate scum-bandwagoning from Town-wagoning but that's a story for another day~

I did find you slightly suspicious for being anti-town with the claims and am theorizing of the PR mechanic that is unique to this game. Looking back now, you are now my top Town read.

Query: Do you have any idea why you were chosen for your power? Any other information that you think will be helpful would be awesome.

---

Non-game but flavor related questions: Is this City Watch thing a good read? What's so good about it? *looking for stuff to read*

[Mysterio]

I was voting for you, and now Narsis, in order to gather information about your alignment. Some pressure is needed to properly squeeze out a player's alignment, and I've been abusing my vote for that purpose.

Fair enough.

Bandwagoning is a legitimate strategy D1 as it is a good way to gather information. There is a way to differentiate scum-bandwagoning from Town-wagoning but that's a story for another day~

Please elaborate. What makes your bandwagoning pro-town as opposed to anti-town?

Query: Do you have any idea why you were chosen for your power?

Too early to tell.

Non-game but flavor related questions: Is this City Watch thing a good read? What's so good about it? *looking for stuff to read*

Don't want to get too sidetracked, so I'll just say I highly recommend the

Discworld

series.

[Budja]

@Button, Weak != scummy. VasudeVa should haven't said that either IMO but its not scummy.

Glad the Narsis wagon is building steam. Thor's posting is good posting.

@VasudeVa, read Discworld! Its a humourous parody of pretty much everything and a great series in its own right.

[KHG]

Query: Do you have any idea why you were chosen for your power?

I'd have to guess it was random (or semi-random), considering there was no night zero and no actions that could have taken place.

I'd like to hear Narsis' response before voting for him. I will UNVOTE: Mysterio for now.

[Narsis]

Putting a vote on Narsis would put him at L-1, so rather than do that I will

FoS: Narsis

. Please give us a clear explanation as to why you think I should be lynched.

let's see...

Post #106 was where i first began getting suspicious. it seemed odd to me(and still does) that you thought you yourself should have been suspicious and was pointing it out.

The main thing though was your stance on nameclaiming. You tried bullying someone into nameclaiming with your vote and constantly pushed for a massclaim, even when a strong case was made against it. Even in defeat you won't let it go and even suggests that it is the only way to catch scum this early on in the game(Post #138). To me this looks like rolefishing scum.

In Post #163 is a false dichotomy which Tasky points out in #179. Perhaps not a scum tell in and of itself but it is a logical fallacy.

So yeah not the most bulletproof case, but it's the most i've gotten from anyone in the game so far.

[Thor665]

I'm okay lynching KHG now as well, which makes me sad. Earlier he seemed townier, now he seems opportunistic and mealy-mouthed, as all scum are - this is science, you cannot argue with it.

Scumlist; Narsis, KHG, FakeGod - in that order

[FakeGod]

aww Thor, I thought we had an understanding going on, us being gods and all.

I'm bit busy, so I'll have to V/LA for today.

[VasudeVa]

Query: Do you have any idea why you were chosen for your power?

I'd have to guess it was random (or semi-random), considering there was no night zero and no actions that could have taken place.

I'd like to hear Narsis' response before voting for him. I will UNVOTE: Mysterio for now.

70% sure this guy's scum.

Hi D2 lynch!

[Thor665]

VasudeVa - do you actually see a scum connection between KHG and Narsis - or are you just competing to set up a wagon on yourself faster?

[jimfinn]

@VasudeVA: How do you differentiate between pro-town and pro-scum wagoning in your opinion
@Mysterio: I'm still waiting for an explanation of your opinions regarding D1 massclaims. Please do so, or I will not move my vote.

[Budja]

@KHG, can you elaborate on your reads?
Why is Narsis scum over Mysterio now?

Looking back, FakeGod is just as guilty as Narsis over the Mysterio wagon. Happy to lynch too.

[VasudeVa]

I'd like to hear Narsis' response before voting for him. I will UNVOTE: Mysterio for now.

If this doesn't sound 'connection-y', I don't know what does. Unwillingness to vote hop on a wagon that's building up on a scummy player who's not yet in any danger is a good tell.

[VasudeVa]

Also, what's a good first book to introduce me to Discworld?

If you want the City Watch ones (my favourites, evidently), you'll probably want to go for Guards! Guards!. The first one in the City Watch series, introduces you to the main characters, etc. If you want other discword, I have no idea, not read many of them.

[jimfinn]

@VV: Please answer the question in my last post: how do you bellieve scum players' wagoning differs from that of town players?

[FD2]

This is an alt of KHG, the post was edited out by request. To find the post, look down. It's KHG's next post. -Mole

[Tasky]

Narsis is obviously jumping on the bandwagon. Even after being pressed, he has failed to give any reasoning for his vote on me. In post #197, he simply repeats yet again that he found me to be more scummy than anyone else. He's clearly appealing to the consensus that built up against me without bothering to actually explain his vote at all. There is also VasudeVa who is also bandwagoning. He jumped on the bandwagon against me, but then switched his vote to Narsis without explaining it at all. He then admits to wanting a bandwagon to form against Narsis in post #186. Not sure how much more transparent that vote could possibly be. You also have to wonder why he decided to vote for me, if he was simply going to change his vote to someone else when I was at L-1.

Mysterio, please take a stance! do you think bandwagoning is scummy or not?

first you say Narsis jumping on your wagon is scummy.
then you say VasudeVa is scummy for jumping on your wagon.
then you say VasudeVa is scummy for jumping on Narsis' wagon.
And then YOU jump on Narsis' wagon (even if you didn't vote, I still consider your attack a bandwagonjump).

this looks to me like accusing other players for doing something and then proceed to do THE SAME THING shortly after...

_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_

I really don't like the Narsis-wagon that is being formed...
looking over the attacks on him

let's take a quick look at the cases against him:

Thor665

this are Thor's post on Narsis

@Narsis - would love to see a bit of commentary from you about your current top suspect.

@Narsis - Was it post 138 or post 142 that made you vote for him?

Or vote FakeGod or Narsis - I see win in those wagons and support their lynch.

You don't see the blatant scum energy flinging from your pores? It got on my face and I wiped it off and saw my napkin was covered in win...*liquid* win. (that and your entrance self vote, you claimed "trap" that revealed a null tell (whoopee) and then you call everyone null as far as reads go and sort of gently drift onto the big wagon of the moment...well, all of that and the napkin - the case is mostly about the napkin)

Who should I be suspecting if not you?

Also, when I wrote out the case on Narsis early I realized how amazingly great it was.

Unvote: FakeGod
Vote: Narsis

I really don't see much of a case here... self-vote is more often than not a town-read, at worst it's a null-tell... in the few games I've played, I remember only town-aligned self-votes
that "trap"... well, I did something similar too in one game (can't link, since it's ongoing)... so it's really nothing...
having null-tells all around on the first few pages isn't uncommon...
I think he provided a decent reasoning for voting Mysterio...
the rest is nothing...

Budja:

unvote, vote Narsis

, commented early, voted later.

this is the point where he votes for Narsis saying he already commented on him... looking through his ISO I didn't find any mention of Narsis...

Glad the Narsis wagon is building steam. Thor's posting is good posting.

the only explanation (which comes

after

saying "commented early, voted later") for the vote is this post... and I don't see any contribution at all.
what exactly about Thor is "good posting"? the napkin thing?

Plum:

UNVOTE: jimfinn

VOTE: Narsis

Attempts to be casual, jokey; ignores everything that's gone on, even the chance to acknowledge that stuff has happened for a complete nothing. He doesn't even end up with a vote on anyone.

what's the difference between attempting to be casual, jokey and actually being it? if you are referring to the self-vote, as I already said... it's an absolute null-tell
is it scummy not to vote in the beginning of the game?
this is your whole case on him...

VasudeVa:

Vote: Narsis

well, that isn't much of a reasoning, is it?

I was voting for you, and now Narsis, in order to gather information about your alignment. Some pressure is needed to properly squeeze out a player's alignment, and I've been abusing my vote for that purpose. Bandwagoning is a legitimate strategy D1 as it is a good way to gather information. There is a way to differentiate scum-bandwagoning from Town-wagoning but that's a story for another day~

I think this reasoning is ok for voting... but it still isn't a case...
and as jimfinn already stated, how do you differentiate scum-bandwagoning from Town-wagoning...
SIDENOTE: for now you go back on my "about-null-tell-pile" for now, but I still expect a good answer to that question

Conclusion:

the Narsis wagon is a bad wagon... Mysterio's is much better

[KHG]

Query: Do you have any idea why you were chosen for your power?

I'd have to guess it was random (or semi-random), considering there was no night zero and no actions that could have taken place.

I'd like to hear Narsis' response before voting for him. I will UNVOTE: Mysterio for now.

70% sure this guy's scum.

Hi D2 lynch!

What does a post like this contribute? I'm 45.7% sure you're scum. My sources are the Easter Bunny and Ty Cobb.

I'd like to hear Narsis' response before voting for him. I will UNVOTE: Mysterio for now.

If this doesn't sound 'connection-y', I don't know what does. Unwillingness to vote hop on a wagon that's building up on a scummy player who's not yet in any danger is a good tell.

Not yet in any danger is hyperbole. My vote would be L-2. It's perfectly reasonable to want to hear someone's responses to the questions asked before voting for them as opposed to hopping on their wagon.

@KHG, can you elaborate on your reads?

Which reads are you referring to exactly, Budja?

[KHG]

Mod can please delete that post from FD2 (old account never used) and edit it into the post above.

[jimfinn]

@ Mod: would it be reasonable to delete the post made by KHG's alt, since it is quoted in full later, just so that we don't become confused later?

I'd love to delete it, however, the forum won't let me. I'll get onto that.

[jimfinn]

EBWOP: haha same thing same time.

[KHG]

Mod, you could simply edit out the post to remove everything if you like, and just copy what I wrote their into my next post.

Done. Continue.

[VasudeVa]

I'm not entirely sure I can say, since I want to catch scummy bandwagoning in its purest undiluted form.

And I haven't seen much, yet. But hey, put some pressure on me if you think I'm suspicious.

@KHG: Was it L-2? Man, I rely on these vote counts too much.
Why didn't you put him at L-2? (IMO, L-3 is a threat but squeezing out info happens best the closer to lynch ).


---

I am very much against a Mysterio lynch. He's obviously Town based from his reaction to the bandwagon(Explanations come when needed.). Anyone still voting for him should be ashamed of themselves.

Plum seems like Plumscum. She is very vocal about her dislike about rolling scum. When people get a role they don't like, they tend to lurk/post fluff which is

exactly

what she is doing. Plus I've seen her as scum before~

FoS: Plum

[VasudeVa]

EBWOP: @KHG: Aside from 'wanting to hear from him'. Even with your vote, He'd still be alive and we WILL hear from him unless he gets a coordinated scum speedlynch which is an awesome scum-tactic which all scum should totally do when I'm Town.

[VasudeVa]

Also, triple post: What is the problem with saying that your vote is a pressure vote? Unwillingness to lynch aside, that is STILL one vote closer to lynch and your arguments that it 'weakens the vote' make little sense to me.