Newbie 970 - Quietville - Game over

[[O]rphen]

In your post you made it clear. You thought xite was town, due to the interactions with me. You concluded that these interactions were the work of either 2 town players or 2 scum players. You had a gut feeling xite was town, so you defended him. Xite has been voted off, and flipped scum, and now you are just abandoning what you have said on day 2. No reason for it, just abandoning it. Haven't provided any reason why you no longer think this way, you just dont. Your not adjusting accordingly.

in conclusion: nachomamma8 is scum.

[Nachomamma8]

I thought that the interactions were either 2 town players or 2 scum players, and I decided against 2 scum players because I believed that it would be ridiculous to set up a bus on each other through the entire game like that. So, when Xite flipped SCUM (which went against everything I had decided before), I learned that I was utterly wrong, so I threw out that reasoning completely.

What part of this don't you understand?

[Mirhawk]

Well Nacho I asked those questions you seemed so interested in yesterday. Are you going to answer them?

[Nachomamma8]

His vote on Orphen was after several posts in which they argued a point that Orphen had brought up in the first place.

Yes. He voted Orphen after Orphen brought up a point on him.

His later vote Against Xite was also clearly (as I view it) started before you posted your list with Xite in it. You say he merely was mildly suspicious of Xite, but his whole post (and it wasn't that small a post) was about what he thought she was doing wrong. It was a rather tense post too, I'm not surprised that he followed it up with a Vote.

His ISO 8 was completely dedicated to Orphen. It wasn't a small post either. But he still didn't follow it up with a vote until 7 posts later.

Also Nacho, you say that mine and Xite's position on your chart were reversed. Why then did you post that you had both voted for and laid out a case against Xite in a post that you had lost?

This has been explained already.

[Mirhawk]

His vote on Orphen was after several posts in which they argued a point that Orphen had brought up in the first place.

Yes. He voted Orphen after Orphen brought up a point on him.

His later vote Against Xite was also clearly (as I view it) started before you posted your list with Xite in it. You say he merely was mildly suspicious of Xite, but his whole post (and it wasn't that small a post) was about what he thought she was doing wrong. It was a rather tense post too, I'm not surprised that he followed it up with a Vote.

His ISO 8 was completely dedicated to Orphen. It wasn't a small post either. But he still didn't follow it up with a vote until 7 posts later.

Umm okay I already stated that I didn't think that Rains votes were opportunistic. Also, not what I asked.

Also Nacho, you say that mine and Xite's position on your chart were reversed. Why then did you post that you had both voted for and laid out a case against Xite in a post that you had lost?

This has been explained already.

Yeah no kidding. It was explained to me almost immediately after I asked it..... By Orphen..... During day two.

Yes I want to know what the second half of the case you were going to post against Rain was. All of the things you just quoted from him are things he said after you claimed there was more to your case. I want to know the original reasons.

This is what I'm asking you now. You mentioned more than once during day two that there was a second half to your case against Rain. I want to know what it is.

[[O]rphen]

I thought that the interactions were either 2 town players or 2 scum players, and I decided against 2 scum players because I believed that it would be ridiculous to set up a bus on each other through the entire game like that. So, when Xite flipped SCUM (which went against everything I had decided before), I learned that I was utterly wrong, so I threw out that reasoning completely.

What part of this don't you understand?

the part where you decide where we're either scum-scum or town-town, one flips scum and you throw it out altogether? again, i dont understand your reasoning for abandoning the case

[Rain]

While Nacho hasn't fully explained himself to everyone. I have to agree with him that because xite flipped scum, his cases and the reasoning behind them were completely thrown out and he needs to start looking in a different directions. That being said, it would be good to post the rest of your case against me (even if it doesn't particularly make sense at this point), to, at least, show that you weren't explicitly lying about that and that you weren't just grabbing at straws to defend xite.

All things considered though, I still want to lynch Nacho. With him currently lighting up on everyone's scum radar at the moment, I simply feel that if he doesn't get lynched today, this conversation will just resume tomorrow and he'll just get lynched then. Why wait when we're all so confident? Let's see how he flips and move on from there.

[Nachomamma8]

Umm okay I already stated that I didn't think that Rains votes were opportunistic. Also, not what I asked.

You misunderstood me, so here we go again.

In your response to the first part of my case on Rain, you commented that Rain's vote wasn't opportunistic because they had several posts beforehand arguing a point. I pointed out that the point that they were arguing was a point by Orphen on Rain, making Rain's vote opportunistic because he was trying to get a popular target who suspected him lynched.

This:

His later vote Against Xite was also clearly (as I view it) started before you posted your list with Xite in it. You say he merely was mildly suspicious of Xite, but his whole post (and it wasn't that small a post) was about what he thought she was doing wrong. It was a rather tense post too, I'm not surprised that he followed it up with a Vote.

was also in response to the first part of my Rain case. You say that his post on Xite was clearly leading up to a vote because of the length and aggressiveness of the post. I pointed out that Rain made a post about Orphen of similar calibre, but it wasn't followed up with a vote until 7 posts later.

Yeah no kidding. It was explained to me almost immediately after I asked it..... By Orphen..... During day two.

I explained that in post #332, but it seems you didn't read as closely as you should have.

[Nachomamma8]

Ok, I had slight suspicions against computing and shotty's entrance (and quicklynch attempt) has done nothing to change that...

If this was true, then why did you attack Xite for it?

You're right, I did attack Xite for jumping on the RS wagon. However, I was focusing on how eagerly she did it, without a thought for her previous cases and targets, not for attacking RS...

If this was true, then why didn't you call Xite scum or even scummy in your first post against Xite?

Wait, did I attack Xite or didn't I?

It can't be true when it supports your case and false when it doesn't...

This post is a misrep.

The first quote was referring to you attacking Xite for a flimsy reason when you voted with a flimsy reason yourself.

The second quote was referring to your attack on Xite which supposedly was going to be followed with a vote.

[Nachomamma8]

Oh yes, there's no way in hell that I'm going to retype a case that I don't even believe in anymore. There are a few new things that happened, and I need to do rereading, and redo my reads.

I will say that the fact that none of you have anything on me except for "he defended Xite" shows that the rest of you should do some rereading yourselves...

[Incognito]

Nachomamma8 (2) <-~ Rain, [O]rphen

Not voting (3) <-~ Mirhawk, Sleepless Assassin, Nachomamma8

With 5 living, 3 votes will do it.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Nacho, a massive connection to known scum is hard to ignore which is the only reason I suspect you over mirhawk. I think you need to claim.

[Nachomamma8]

Explain my connection to Xite first.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Really? You didn't get it the first time I pointed it out?

Her wagon was the dominant wagon and all of the sudden you have a revelation that shows xite and orphen to be either both town or both scum (which you dismiss when xite flips scum, why?) And a case on rain out of nowhere, which eliminates any chance xite is scum because you say rain can't be bussing. All of this when xite is the leading candidate for a lynch. It looks like a scumbuddy protecting his partner and giving a new lynch option instead all at the same time.it was bad logic to begin with and the timing of it just looks sketchy.

[Nachomamma8]

which you dismiss when xite flips scum, why?

I threw out the scum-scum possibility in my ISO 28.

And a case on rain out of nowhere, which eliminates any chance xite is scum because you say rain can't be bussing.

Does Rain's votepost look like bussing to you?

[Mirhawk]

Oh yes, there's no way in hell that I'm going to retype a case that I don't even believe in anymore. There are a few new things that happened, and I need to do rereading, and redo my reads.

I will say that the fact that none of you have anything on me except for "he defended Xite" shows that the rest of you should do some rereading yourselves...

The thing I "have" on you is the fact that you keep refusing to post that damn case.

The way I look at it the fact that you defended Xite during day two

could

be excusable if you had been acting on a solid case against Rain. From what I can see, the stuff that you posted on Rain is not only not solid. But I disagree with a few key parts of it completely. However you keep alluding to a second part of the case against him that may or may not be better than the first half. I cannot see how not posting this case is helping your credibility.

Personally I don't think there ever was a second half to the case and it was only a bit of flimflam you tacked onto to make your reasoning seem more legitimate.

Does Rain's votepost look like bussing to you?

So you say that Rain wasn't bussing. But you also say that he was being opportunistic with that vote. Since we know Xite was scum, this pretty much cant be true.


Anyways, I'm done. Unless you post that case on Rain I don't really have anything else to say. Do any of the rest of you have any questions for Nacho, or should we just lynch him?

[Nachomamma8]

The thing I "have" on you is the fact that you keep refusing to post that damn case.

Because there's no way in hell that I'm going to write a case on someone that I think is town.

But I disagree with a few key parts of it completely.

I countered these key points. Why aren't you responding?

I cannot see how not posting this case is helping your credibility.

You're asking me to write a case on someone who I think is TOWN. How is that supposed to help my credibility? I said in ISO #36 that I didn't want to pursue a case that would be thrown out if Xite flipped scum. So why are you still trying to ask me to?

So you say that Rain wasn't bussing. But you also say that he was being opportunistic with that vote. Since we know Xite was scum, this pretty much cant be true.

At that point, I thought Xite was town. So, the fact that I was wrong is a moot point. However, you haven't proven my logic to be scummy or weak although you've said repeatedly that it is.

Anyways, I'm done. Unless you post that case on Rain I don't really have anything else to say. Do any of the rest of you have any questions for Nacho, or should we just lynch him?

Why do you want to stop discussion?

[Mirhawk]

Because there's no way in hell that I'm going to write a case on someone that I think is town.

You're asking me to write a case on someone who I think is TOWN. How is that supposed to help my credibility? I said in ISO #36 that I didn't want to pursue a case that would be thrown out if Xite flipped scum. So why are you still trying to ask me to?

It would help you credibility in my eyes at the very least. Because as things stand right now, I don't think that the case ever even existed. I think you lied about it. So what if you think Rain is town

now

. What I care about are the reasons behind your case yesterday. Whether they are still valid now is not the point, its whether they were valid yesterday.

I countered these key points. Why aren't you responding?

Because I have repeatedly told you that I DON'T find Rains votes opportunistic. Nothing you've said has swayed my opinion on that either.

Why do you want to stop discussion?

I never said that other people weren't free to talk. There was only one thing I wanted to ask you today and since you refuse to answer it I don't really have much else to say.

[Nachomamma8]

Because I have repeatedly told you that I DON'T find Rains votes opportunistic. Nothing you've said has swayed my opinion on that either.

I'm not trying to prove that Rain's vote isn't opportunistic because I don't believe that anymore. I'm trying to find where my logic is "weak" or "not solid".

[Mirhawk]

"weak" and "not solid" are probably misnomers. A more accurate description would probably be opinion. At the time it was your opinion that Rain was being opportunistic. While after looking at it myself I formed the opinion that he was not. There was little in the way of hard facts in your case, it was mostly based on questions like: "Do I think Rain voted too quickly for Xite?" Or. "Was Rains vote against Orphan justified?" None of these seemed very compelling to me so I called the case weak, but that is only my opinion.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Nacho whether rain looked like he was bussing or not isn't the point. The point is the way you used a lack of a connection between xite and rain in combination with a case out of thin air on rain to decide that xite was town because she couldn't be scum unless orphen was too or whatever it is you were trying to do. It just doesn't add up.

Also, claim.

[Nachomamma8]

Mirhawk, here's a hard fact for you: Rain has not made a single vote, save one in the RVS and a vote on Computig that lasted exactly one post, on someone who wasn't heavily under scrutiny.

When he voted Orphen, he already had the strong backing of Xite.
Reverse isn't that strong of an example, but it certainly isn't an exception.
When he voted Xite, he had the backing of most of the town.
When he voted me, he had the backing of most of the town.

Whether you believe he voted for someone too quick or whether his voting was justified or not, you have to admit that this example alone strongly points to opportunistic voting.

Nacho whether rain looked like he was bussing or not isn't the point. The point is the way you used a lack of a connection between xite and rain in combination with a case out of thin air on rain to decide that xite was town because she couldn't be scum unless orphen was too or whatever it is you were trying to do. It just doesn't add up.

No, the point isn't that I was wrong. Townies can easily be wrong. What you SHOULD be trying to figure out is if my logic was genuine or not, and if the purpose of my defense of Xite was to save a scumbuddy, or to save someone I genuinely thought was town.

Sleepless, I'm not claiming yet. I still believe that there's a chance that the lynch on me won't go through, especially after I post the second half of the case on Rain (I'll try to stop procrastinating now, I swear :/). Claiming will either A) Take away my chance to make a game-winning investigation/save without scum interference, or give the scum the knowledge that I can't do either of those things, thus making it more likely for them to out/kill/block the REAL cop/doc.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Lol.

Pretty sure "the way you used the lack of a connection..." doesn't mean "you were wrong". Whether or not it was genuine is exactly what I'm looking at and I don't believe you were based on the fact that xite was so close to a lynch when you came out with this crap.

[[O]rphen]

posting so i dont get prodded...

[Mirhawk]

Waiting for Nacho's case.