Tenchi 130 wrote:
At this point I read Mykonian's post 99 and I do agree that CKD's reactive playstyle post is scummy.
I will vote CKD if I need to be.
Ummmmm... you had your random vote on vollkan on. Why no vote ckd here, why only if need be?
That's a Tenchi fail. I should've voted him either then, or when I posted in response to my prod. I stopped thinking about the game when I made my I'm sick post. Useless D1 vote, yes.
In retrospect, in the off chance I get sick again
VOTE: CKD
Yes. That same Tenchi.
Reicheru and Tenchi begin to bond more, sending love letters to each other.
Tenchi wrote:That's a Tenchi fail. I should've voted him either then, or when I posted in response to my prod. I stopped thinking about the game when I made my I'm sick post. Useless D1 vote, yes.
In retrospect, in the off chance I get sick again
VOTE: CKD
For getting sick 1 week after the post I asked about you're mentioning it a lot
You're saying you should have, but I just wanna know why didn't you?
Hmph. Everyone on Incog still looks not mafia also after the Kinetic lynch with the possible exception of imaginality who I'm not sure of. It's a bit of a bold scummove to be on that wagon though while having said to think Incog-town, I wouldn't expect that out of imaginality.
Hoopla wrote:Fucking hell. That was seriously a bad lynch.
No it wasnt. Even if Kin is town I needed his flip. The townies that were in his wagon needed that too.
Lynching Incog is stupid regardless of Kin's alignment.
Spyrex is an awesone lynch BTW.
VOTE: SPYREX.
GOGOGOGO SIZE 200 WAGON
populartajo wrote:
mykonian wrote:VOTE: incognito
Lets get that piece of information for tomorrow. Hoopla, lets see if your theory was right. In case both wagons were on town, you will still lynch more accurately tomorrow (as you don't have to assume anything about the Incognito) . If one proves to be on scum you have a lot of information (scum having to pick between both lynches).
Otherwise, I would support a whole series of lynches tomorrow. There are a few townreads that are quite uncontested: these are valuable. Multiple lynches will protect them for endgame.
No.
Stop being silly. We need the Kinetic flip first.
First, I think Incog softclaimed PR. Let him do (or fake) his work tonight.
Second, making a hasty lynch that depends on the flip of the other wagon will only give erroneus reads on the long term.
We should lynch obvscum Spyrex. God. Please.
Am I reading this right? Because if I am there is a glaring contradiction going on. First post he's saying that regardless of Kinetic's flip an Incog lynch is stupid... second post he seems to be saying that before we decide whether we're lynching Incognito we need Kinetic's flip... which he's just said should have no baring on whether or not we lynch Incog. Says an Incognito lynch doesn't depend on Kinetic's flip, then says it does. Yeah. Contradiction.
q21 wrote:
populartajo wrote:
Kin wrote:Lets spot the contradiction here. You don't want a Incog lynch, as we need the Kinetic flip, but you need a spyrex lynch? Come on, who are you fooling?
The Incog lynch is entirely dependant of the Kinetic flip.
If Kin flips scum would you lynch Incog? Spyrex lynch is not based on the Kinetic flip. Its based on the fact that he is obvscum.
myko wrote:Further, I absolutely HATE that you are claiming a PR for him here. 1. you shouldn't be powerrole hunting. Scum only does 2. If he is a powerrole, he clearly doesn't want to be outed. 3. if he wants everybody to know, he'll claim
Why do I feel am I the only one reading the thread?
Hoopla wrote:
populartajo wrote:Are you saying I am scum, Hoopz?
Yeah.
q21 wrote:Am I reading this right?
Lynching Incog today is stupid because we dont have the Kin flip. It entirely dependes on the flip and the information it gives us about the players on the wagons. My position should be clear in the last post. I can understand why you think there is a contradiction there.
"Lynching Incog is stupid regardless of Kin's alignment" means that I think Incog is town and that his lynch is stupid imo.
You did it again. Incog lynch is "entirely dependent" on the Kinetic flip and then you say you think Incog is town, seemingly independent of the Kinetic flip.
Pointed these out at the end of Day 1, but there was no chance I was getting a tajo lynch through then. Now though, its worth the pursuing, I think. His play has felt different to the town-tajo I've played with before and he's had some other minor scumminess, but this to me is the stand out point.
Vote Populartajo
Also, not voting for Spyrex today.
"I can't not give mad props to the murderbot 9000 that was q21." - Spyrex, after Scummies Invitational 2010.
You know those times when you wish you could think of something really funny or interesting to say, but just can't?... Yep, this is one of those times.
Lets get a lynch first, Q21. I'm sure you'd like CKD, Imaginality, slicey etc to go. Lets get that done in the first week, and get some decent scumhunting after that.
Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.
in reference to Empking(has nothing to do with this game), i am never joining another fucking game with him. His lynch yesterday WAS a bad wagon, we can discuss it after the game is over if you like, because right now, scum will paint it like I was defending him....though, I dont think OJ is doing that, pretty sure OJ is town.
anyway.
Tenchi wrote:
I'm up for a CKD vote since I also think people chasing after Kinetic was a huge distraction from CKD's initial horrible posting eventhough Kinetic took a lot of fire for
his
initial posting as well.
yeah, thats why I took my vote of Kinetic.....(rolls eyes).
anyway, i cant say that my lynch is a bad one, I get why I am getting heat and if you dont get rid of me today, fucking scum will just keep brining me up or keep me in their back pocket to push heavily in Lylo.
this sucks, but I get it.
this isnt a flake move...really it isnt. I just feel like we shouldnt linger on me today anymore than you need to...
unvote, vote CKD.
I think of imagin, techni, and spy, (there is at least 2 scum). Probably spy, because as soon are he started getting votes today my wagon kicked harder into gear.
and I strongly suggest you lynch one of those today after me.
also, please someone evaluate the connection between my lynch and Kinetic's.
"I can't not give mad props to the murderbot 9000 that was q21." - Spyrex, after Scummies Invitational 2010.
You know those times when you wish you could think of something really funny or interesting to say, but just can't?... Yep, this is one of those times.
well you dont really know, what is fact is this statement.
"i cant say that my lynch is a bad one, I get why I am getting heat and if you dont get rid of me today, fucking scum will just keep brining me up or keep me in their back pocket to push heavily in Lylo"
I go for genuine. It's too early. He gave no time to bus. Noone else doing it ever ever in this game will get any good will from anything similar again from me. But right now scum-ckd with a scumpal down would have more likely stalled and let us waste time and bicker. imo it's pro-town to get several lynches in today.
Things are still the same. Incog is still town. "I want everyone to damn post why you think I am scum" is protown in a context where Incog is not even slightly scummy.
The only reason why Id want Incog lynched is to have his flip so these scumbags can stop hiding behind the "OMG, you guys lynched Kinetic, SCUMSCUMSCUMSCUM" position.
Spyrex is still scum but my vote depends on what q21 will answer shortly.
Im also pretty sure there is at least one scumbag hidden (Id say 1) in the "Lynching Emp is stupid" clique. It was a very supported position so Im pretty sure scum could get a benefit of it since he/they werent forced to accept Emp was town, only that he hadnt done anything scummy for a lynch. Im also thinking there is one scum subtly bussing there.
So, I compiled this (Im starting in the Kinetic vote in 108 since it was this vote that started the whole debate):
Empking should be lynched: Kinetic (108), Tenchi (130), CKD (178), Spyrex (211)
No comment or I didnt catch it in my reread, please correct me if you shouldnt be here: q21
In my research, I found that KMD posted this:
KMD wrote:Oh, and I should mention that meta tells me Empking is town.
What exactly in his meta told you Emp was town?
Volkan is an special case. He is one of the heavy Kin attackers and they both waste a lot of space in the Emp debate but I cant decide if Volk is indeed defending Emp or attacking him. VOLKAN, can you precise your position (with quotes preferebly) in the Emp department?
Also imaginality is very likely confirmed town for this post:
imag wrote:That will make it easier to spot any scum players who use "let's lynch Empking" as an alternative to scumhunting or listing other suspects.
No scum would assume Emp is town and further generate reasoning based on this fact. (they know Emp is scum).
Finally, Ojanen what made you go to dislike a lynch on Emp (191) to like his lynch in 336?
tajo wrote:Finally, Ojanen what made you go to dislike a lynch on Emp (191) to like his lynch in 336?
Read pls.
I 191 wrote:Also, I'm optimistic enough about there being means to read people through in-game analysis that I don't see myself supporting policy lynching Empking
for out-of-game reasons
(this without playing a game with him as far as I remember).
In 336 I was pretty sure Kinetic is town and the swipe statement on who'd I'd rather lynch that included Empking had 5 people from Kinetic's wagon. And town-Kinetic over any Empking is pretty self-evident.
CKD is probably town for reasons Ojanen went into - going into a tailspin right now doesn't add up.
Tenchi
needs
to be lynched today after that amazing piece of contribution.
Slicey needs to go.
Tajo may have one more day. May. I'm still debating because I'm not stoked at all with these blinders.
I'm saying we clean house and then talk about lynches that seem to have some real opinions attached.
Unvote, Vote: Tenchi.
Make this happen, fast like and then we can move on (to Slicey)
Ran short of time this weekend, grr. The more from me will be tomorrow. For now, I'm happy to see Tenchi lynched:
Vote: Tenchi
Agree with the posts above: ckd's self-vote feels genuine. I'm definitely not in favour of lynching Ojanen either, and I have no desire to lynch q21 (though there's still a possible SK concern there, so he's worth keeping an eye on). Not so strongly town about Hoopla but think there plenty scummier players to occupy us today at least.
I think at least one of Slicey and SpyreX is scum but probably not both, and I lean much more towards Slicey there; happy to lynch him.
I think probably one of myko or Vollkan is scum, and lean slightly more towards myko. Also I noticed Empking speak up in myko's defence at one point and I think he's more likely to have done that for a scumbuddy.
Kmd and tajo I'm feeling fairly neutral about. Between the two of them I'd lynch Kmd first.
"holy shit this entire time i thought imaginalitys profile was a purple seahorse" - camelCasedSnivy
I'm a little disappointed the Incognito fell away this easily after everyone came out so forwardly with their desires to pump through a big list of lynches. I'm still relatively confident he is scum, and even if I can't convince you all of that, I'll try to sway you on the grounds of his lynch being necessary information. Lets flash back to when q21 was leading the race;
After q21's claim, his wagon collapses with time ticking, closing in on the end of day one. With a scramble for votes likely to occur, players dropping off the q21 lynch make this is a pivotal point in the game, as there is a fresh new column of votes that need to be redistributed. This is a beautiful time to be scum and to influence a wagon, as normally changing votes to a second or third 'suspect' is difficult to do if you've invested yourself in a wagon. But here, it is a fresh slate where votes are more liberally thrown around. Lets see what happens next;
The column of q21 voters slowly starts to sift into the crowd, propping a couple of players up to two votes. At this stage, I think Kinetic, Incognito and SpyreX (and possibly imaginality, as he collected a couple of votes soon after) were the only real chances of being lynched here, with Incognito being Kinetic's best competition. This is important to note, because Empking is the fourth voter on the Kinetic wagon, which serves as a soft defense to whoever else would be likeliest lynched if that wasn't pushed.
It's at this point mykonian moves to Incognito (closing the margin to 4-3), which is where it starts to get interesting. Incognito then pushes Kinetic back ahead by 2 with this vote;
Incognito wrote:Blah blah blah.
unvote, vote: Kinetic
He soon after defends his vote under the 'him vs. me' clause, citing both their wagons had jumped to the top, when there was a whole tier of players lurking behind on two votes, that he could have propped up. It's strangely early to be locking himself into that scenario, because when Kinetic would flip town, it was quite obvious he and others pushing the Kinetic wagon would come squarely into the forefront of the game. And with Empking riding the tilt vote to get Kinetic ahead, it's not the sort of attention he'd want to bring to that area of the wagon. I can see town motivation in locking the lynch into a two-horse race, as surely scum would desire more options, but this is as far as I'm willing to concede for Incog.
If you're undecided on Incognito's lynch, here is my appeal to information: Incognito was the main rival for Kinetic, and knowledge of his alignment is necessary for constructive POE cases as him being town or scum, gives us greater insight into scum's D1 motivations. If he flips scum, this heavily incriminates the back half of the Kinetic wagon, those deliberately avoiding the Incognito wagon and/or lurking before the D1 deadline. A town flip means our two leading, competing wagons were both town, which gives scum no urgency to commit to ugly quicklynch scrambling. I'd say the back half of the Kinetic wagon looks increasingly town, as they are horrible places to be as scum, knowing Empking was slotted in at number 4, and knowing those late votes will be scrutinized heavily. Scum knew the Kinetic wagon was going to look bad, so if Incognito is town, they had no reason to occupy those 'bad positions' and I expect them to be sitting back at the start of the Kinetic wagon or someone on the side not affecting the Kinetic/Incog situation.
Empking's Kinetic vote can be interpreted as a soft defense on Incognito, and though I'm not as bloodthirsty for his lynch as I was yesterday, I don't understand why he is getting off the hook being one of today's lynches when we should be lynching at least 3 people. And of those 3+ lynches, one of them really needs to be the competing D1 wagon.
imaginality wrote:I think probably one of myko or Vollkan is scum, and lean slightly more towards myko. Also I noticed Empking speak up in myko's defence at one point and I think he's more likely to have done that for a scumbuddy.
Oh My God U Suck.
unvote vote Imaginality
. A it is called buddying. B Vollkans overall play consists out of a single big movement against Kinetic, textbook scumplay. You dismiss the whole game to "lean slightly more towards myko" because of the buddying of Empking.
Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.
imaginality wrote:I think probably one of myko or Vollkan is scum, and lean slightly more towards myko.
Also
I noticed Empking speak up in myko's defence at one point and I think he's more likely to have done that for a scumbuddy.
Oh My God U Suck.
unvote vote Imaginality
. A it is called buddying. B Vollkans overall play consists out of a single big movement against Kinetic, textbook scumplay. You dismiss the whole game to "lean slightly more towards myko" because of the buddying of Empking.
Note the bolded; your assessment is not correct. I saw you as scummier (well, at that point as less town) than Vollkan in my D1 read, and I do so still, except less sure that Vollkan is town than I was yesterday. And there's something about the way the two of you are interacting that gives me a gut feel it's not a town vs town thing.
"holy shit this entire time i thought imaginalitys profile was a purple seahorse" - camelCasedSnivy
imaginality wrote:I think probably one of myko or Vollkan is scum, and lean slightly more towards myko.
Also
I noticed Empking speak up in myko's defence at one point and I think he's more likely to have done that for a scumbuddy.
Oh My God U Suck.
unvote vote Imaginality
. A it is called buddying. B Vollkans overall play consists out of a single big movement against Kinetic, textbook scumplay. You dismiss the whole game to "lean slightly more towards myko" because of the buddying of Empking.
Note the bolded; your assessment is not correct. I saw you as scummier (well, at that point as less town) than Vollkan in my D1 read, and I do so still, except less sure that Vollkan is town than I was yesterday. And there's something about the way the two of you are interacting that gives me a gut feel it's not a town vs town thing.
Make a case for me, please. I can't properly OMGUS vote you if you don't.
Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.
Hey Hoops, I've been undecided on the Incog front. I went to look at the wagon specifically earlier. The quickwagon is Awesome for information. What do you think about this post?
Basically I was looking at the tipping point after Empking's vote on Kinetic, and the only people who would have benefited Incog on the Kinetic wagon if they were his scumpal were populartajo, imaginality and SpyreX.
However I'm near ruling out imaginality and SpyreX as Incognito scumpals - they were on the QL Incog wagon, it would have just been waaay too easy to lurk through a couple of hours. So the only possibility would be tajo. Who is very blatant at Incog's defence so I dunno, not that likely to me... but within possibility I guess.
Also, something I saw is that if Incog is scum, everyone except Empking becomes very green on the q21 wagon with the exception of tajo who would be imo likely green. That's a lot of green.
Hi Ojanen, that post redirects me to the top of page 17 for some reason, rather than to post 408 which I assume is where it was supposed to go to.
I'm not sure whether there
needs
to be another scum on the Kinetic wagon if Incognito was scum. Infact I'd be quite wary playing as scum with Incog/Empking, watching them bundle on to the Kinetic wagon - that's the last place I'd want to be, and I'd only be there if necessary to prevent Incognito's lynch. The entire scumteam guiltily camped out on that wagon would be a bad result, so I guess we have to work out whether the other scum was thinking Incognito would lose that race. You make a good observation about imaginailty/Incognito scumteam not working, due to imaginality being on the quickwagon, and the L-2 vote, no less. That probably makes the back-end of the Kinetic wagon look townier
if
Incognito is scum, because we can reasonably deduce there was less chance of Incognito being lynched over Kinetic than we thought, ergo less reason for an Incog-buddy to contribute to it. I'll explain;
I feel imaginality's vote is the one that 'tips' the Kinetic/Incognito race in favour of Kinetic (at least for that point in time), making tajo's involvement on the wagon less scummy. Incognito spent most of his time 2 votes behind Kinetic, and whenever he drew closer, someone almost immediately put Kinetic back ahead by more. Empking did it first to take Kinetic to 4-2. Incognito did it second to take it to 5-3, and then imaginality did it shortly after to take it to 6-4. So, assuming Incognito is scum, we have those three tipping voters covered alignment-wise, which means the other scum is never in a tricky position - never having to consider getting on the Kinetic wagon or not, because it always sorted itself out.
To illustrate that point; when mykonian voted Incognito to 4-3 (one behind Kinetic), it took only 4 hours for Kinetic to get to 7, with only 4 individual players posting in that passage of time. And of those votes on Kinetic, only populartajo's is in doubt - because Incog and imaginality were the other voters. My point here is, that it would be reasonable to assume that
if
Incognito is scum, his partner wouldn't be on the back end of the Kinetic wagon with Emp and Incog if they could help it, and would be instead lurking elsewhere or not even having the chance to be on it if they wanted to because of how quickly it happened.
The q21 switch is interesting, taking it from 7-4 to 6-5, but again, that window of a 1-vote-gap only lasted 3 hours, before SpyreX jumped on. That could mean SpyreX-scum, but again, like imaginality, he was on that attempted quicklynch too. This would mean that two townies controlled the tipping votes, which wipes out scum's hiding places at the back end of the Kinetic wagon.
Vollkan, Slicey, Tenchi, KMD posted very little, most of them not at all during the exciting parts of the Kinetic/Incognito race, and if Incognito is scum, that is precisely where I'd be looking, rather than the back-end of the Kinetic wagon as I said before, because I think now only populartajo makes sense as scum with Incog of those three, but it is very blatant. Ugh, Ojanen, you're making me less sure. The amount of prob-townies we get from an Incog-scum flip seems too high for it to be real. But if it is true, we basically win the game.
