Plum wrote:Dislike Tasky's attempted defense of Narsis against Thor. Self-voting may be null, but joking around and having only null reads at that point in the game, when some serious material was under discussion, is generally likely to be a scummy action. Thor's case focused on Narsis' lack of commentary on his top suspects and in general the fact that he's contributed nothing to this game while latching onto the largest wagon . . . you attempt to excuse him for the 'trap' clumsily as well. Oh, and your attack on my case on Narsis:
As I already explained, he had given a decent explanation for his jump on the wagon, and not having top suspects is not necessarily a scumtell...
for the "trap-thing"... it's just that I found myself in a very similar as Narsis (maybe bad play) and therefore I understand him... so I wanted to point out that that isn't a scum-tell.
Plum wrote:
The difference is that scum may feign lightheartedness and lack of concern early in the game to avoid actually participating. Narsis was in a position where contribution was basically demanded, but instead attempted to fool around. Again, self-voting is not a nulltell if in context it is aiding and abetting scum behavior, like avoiding scumhunting. I'd be on Narsis' case just as much had he voted then quickly unvoted anyone in the game that way; the one he happened to do that to was himself. My case on him further includes his commplete lack of reads. He's simply not scumhunting and not trying to scumhunt. Townies have direct motivation to scumhunt. Scum don't have
direct
motivation to scumhunt, so generally speaking avoiding scumhunting is a MAJOR SCUMTELL.
I'd really like to see some statistics on self-votes, since I think they definitely aren't done by scum more than by town.
You are right on Narsis' lazyness, but being lazy is not a scumtell...
For the being jokey thing, it isn't enough to say why scum does it, you have to say why scum does it more than town... in the few games I've played, jokey players have often enough been town (actually more often than they were scum).
Mysterio wrote:Tasky wrote:Mysterio, please take a stance! do you think bandwagoning is scummy or not?
first you say Narsis jumping on your wagon is scummy.
then you say VasudeVa is scummy for jumping on your wagon.
then you say VasudeVa is scummy for jumping on Narsis' wagon.
And then YOU jump on Narsis' wagon
(even if you didn't vote, I still consider your attack a bandwagonjump).
This is weak. Suspecting someone is NOT the same as bandwagoning.
it's
almost
the same in this phase of the game:
since people aren't going to get lynched atm there is almost no difference between voting for someone and putting a FoS on them... the point still is that you attacked Narsis after a lot of people did, and that's called wagoning.
Plum wrote:Budja wrote:The whole "defend Narsis" post by Tasky was odd but on the whole I don't think it was scummy, just weak.
The arguments were weak, yes. But an entire post devoted to knocking down every single person's reasons for voting Narsis? I just don't see why, from a normal Town perspective, even one with strong Town read, for whatever reason (heaven help me if I know how someone could get a better than neutral read on Narsis at this point) an entire post would be a sort of lowgrade attack on everyone who voted Narsis/their votes on Narsis.
the attack was weak... to show that I had to take all the posts containing some content and prove them to be basically nothing.
I just think the Narsis wagon is bad... it could be caused by scum or simply by bad play...
Plum wrote:
A few other Tasky things have been slightly on the odd side (like unvoting from a 5-player wagon on page 3 which he later stated was probably mainly Town-driven . . . again, worry about a quickhammer then? And if so, unvote a wagon which didn't seem shady/scum-driven?).
here comes the nonsense again... just because a wagon isn't scum-driven, it doesn't mean it's a good wagon. And an RVS wagon going to L-2 in the first few pages just doesn't seem right to me. So you think it's scummy to unvote a random vote on a random wagon if that wagon isn't clearly scum-driven... your standards are certainly different from mine.
Thor665 wrote:@Tasky - I grok that you think the cases on Narsis are weak, but this is Day 1 and cases tend to be a little fluffier at this point. Why do you think Narsis is so likely to be town?
I don't know whether Narsis is town... but if he is scum then he isn't for the arguments brought up against him up to this point...
I really don't like the wagon that's building up against him based on this fluffy cases.
PS: what does "grok" mean?
