Ladies Night -- Game Over

[Haylen]

Thank you for proving to me you're more valuable as scum than town. Why do you think this is? Do you think you're a poor scumhunter or lazy as town?

I suck as town. I've been trying to improve for over a year but I'm just stuck :/ I've memorised every mafia theory page there is on the wiki and in MD, studied it over and over again but for some reason I can't put it into practise very well. So I create my own little ways of finding out whether or somebody is scum but because people don't understand why I do something, my arguments don't hold very much stance.

I'll give you a cookie if you can work out what the self-voting and claiming is about. I'd be thankful if you don't tell what it is though. It's something that's worked for me before though, on multiple occassions.

I've tried taking a very aggressive approach to mafia as shown in Newbie 848. I attacked VRK over a period of about 5 game days based entirely on gut, tunnelled on him. Then Charter joined the game and I tried a more logical approach. Logic told me Charter was scum, gut told me VRK was scum. So I voted Charter in lylo and it turned out I should've listened to my gut. Because for all of the tunnelling and attacking I did on Vel, it wasn't for nothing.

[Haylen]

Hoopla...I calculated my win rate yesterday and found I have a 26.1% win rate as town, 92.9% win rate as scum and a 75% win rate as third party. Do the calculations show I'm easy to catch as scum? ~_~

Looking at your wiki, I count your mafia/werewolf record as 9/4 which is about 69%. You're back at 6/4 if you remove newbie games, too. Is your wiki up-to-date or did I just count wrong? If you're exaggerating or including games from somewhere else, why?

I included newbie games. I counted the game I won as scum on my Alexithymia alt. If that's not right, then my statistics are wrong, which wouldn't surprise me (I failed my statistics course last year having only got 21% >_> My maths caused me to fail my entire course last year as all of the coursework included it.), I got Jordan to check though and he said I was right

[Hoopla]

It's not really statistics, though. It's just adding up how many games you've won and lost. You can do that can't you?

[Haylen]

i counted the ones I won, divided them by the number I played and multiplied them by 100. Except I can't really divide properly. I've got Dyscalculia (maths dyslexia). Also, I'm thinking you didn't include the game where I was Outsider (Mind Screw 4). Considering me and Cobalt had to kill the town, I considered that as being a scumteam.

[Hoopla]

Well, those two bump you up to about 73%. How do you know I didn't include that game?

[Haylen]

I know you didn't include that last game because you only said you included my mafia and wolf games You said nothing about my games as Outsider.

I'm gonna be V/LA for Saturday only this weekend. Usually, I'm on V/LA all weekend. But it's mine and Jordan's engagement party this saturday and I got the weekend off work.

Noted

[Hoopla]

Did you genuinely believe your scum win rate was 92%?

[Haylen]

Yes.

Do you believe that I believe you're patronising me?

[Hoopla]

I just don't understand how you could mess up that equation. Can you explain Dyscalculia to me more, and how it affects you? (I'm not trying to be rude)

[Sucrose]

The rest of you

, I don't care about so much. But I am willing to take an interest in you now. Tell me about your playstyle, your in-game experiences and what you offer the town by being alive.

Vote: Haylen

You don't care? Well that's mean of you. Anyway, honest assessment: I tend to be a pretty obvtown townie when I don't lurk. I'm often NK-bait, regardless of my role. I've got a 50/50 average for scum and slightly better for town. I'm pretty happy about winning as an SK in Mini 930, but it was mostly due to dumb luck. I like to think I'm pretty good at finding scum based on gut feeling.

VOTE: Hoopla, for having an eternal birthday

[esuriospiritus]

Y halo thar.

Tell me about your playstyle, your in-game experiences and what you offer the town by being alive.

I empathize with a lot of what Haylen says. I suck at being town too, but that's partially because I fucking LOATHE playing town. Deception is much more of an interesting concept to me than deduction, and I am better at it. I kind of float around in a pool of cluelessness as town sometimes, and like Haylen that's something that no amount of reading up on theory has really helped me with. I've realized lately that I am more likely to find someone town than I am to find someone scummy enough to start a new wagon on, so lately I've been trying to figure out who the town is and work backwards through PoE rather than trying to figure out who the scum are directly. We'll see how that works.

I have two scum games on this screenname and another on an alt that I replaced out of. I won both of the games on this account, though one of them I don't really credit to me, as ... sotty of all people (hi sotty!) pretty much pulled our team through for the win. That was my first newbie on this site (I had played four town games on another site previous to joining here).

I don't keep track of my town win/loss record, because frankly I just don't care about it like I do my scum record. <_<

I have yet to play third-party.

I will probably go for a stretch of three days without posting at least once throughout the duration of the game. If I can't think of anything interesting to say, I'll just stay silent rather than post "I don't have interesting to say. x y and z are still town and q is probably scum. Nothing has changed from where I'm sitting."

I am bad about leading bandwagons, unless something seems really really obvious to me. I am more likely to follow someone I perceive as a strong obvtown player, and I realize that's something I need to work on, but I have to work on getting more confident in my own reads first.

Umm... that's about it for now. <_<

Vote: Sotty

Hi. Are you scum?

[esuriospiritus]

Oh, one more thing: You can tell how interested I am in a game by the length of my posts. <_< Long posts = having fun. Lots of one-liners = "oh god scum, plz kill me and save me from this AGONY"

...Oh, and I suck at handling pressure. And that's pretty much as both alignments, although I think I'm probably worse if anything as town because I know everyone is accusing me wrongly.

[Hoopla]

Esuriospiritus: Do you think any of my argument with Haylen has been relevent or telling of alignment at all?

[esuriospiritus]

Relevant, maybe, in that it shows Haylen is at least capable as scum. Telling of alignment... nope, can't say that I've gotten any tells out of it.

With any conversation like this it's important to keep in mind that unless someone actually goes and reads a person's meta, they can pretty much make it out to be whatever they want it to be, and this could be a useful tool as scum. "Oh look, I told them I'm a weak town player, now I can get away with playing weakly even though I'm actually not that bad" would be a probable scum line of thinking in Haylen's or my case. I'm aware of that, so I'm taking her description of her town play with a grain of salt (like I'm expecting people to take mine), but I don't really get a read from it.

I have seen her do the self-vote/crazy claim thing before, so that's not telling to me in any fashion, either.

[Haylen]

I just don't understand how you could mess up that equation. Can you explain Dyscalculia to me more, and how it affects you? (I'm not trying to be rude)

Well, what I actually have is a combination of Dyslexia, Dyspraxia and Dyscalculia - they overlap pretty badly with me. Dyslexia I have an intriguing version of because my spelling is generally perfect, it's just whether or not I get the correct word that's the problem. One might suggest using a spell check, but that's not going to work if the words spelt right. For example, I got penalised in my coursework because I wrote 'phonetic' rather than 'problematic'. My memory is absolutely shit. That's where the overlap with Dyscalculia comes in. If I need to transfer a number from a page to the calculator, there's an extremely high chance I'm going to write the wrong number. A lot of the time, this will show itself by me writing the number in backwards ie. 24 would become 42. One mistake like that could throw my whole coursework off synch. Having somebody read the number to me is much worse because I also have Auditory Processing Disorder which means my brain doesn't process things like it should.

To make this easier to understand, these are the symptoms of Dyscalculia and how they affect me:

* Poor understanding of the signs +, -, ÷ and x, or may confuse these mathematical symbols.

You wouldn't believe how many times I've used add rather than multiply and vice versa.

* Difficulty with addition, subtraction, multiplication and division or may find it difficult to understand the words "plus," "add," "add-together.

Can't do long multiplication or Division, my addition is generally fine, it's subtraction that confuses me the most but I can still just about do it but only when it's written down on paper and when I have the use of my fingers to count down on.

* Difficulty with times tables.

I can do my times tables up to 12x, if I'm given 13 x something, no matter how easy it is it'll still throw me.

* Poor mental arithmetic skills.

Ah, the days at school when my teachers and classmates would ridicule me because the highest I'd get in mental arithmetic tests was 2/20. No matter how hard I tried. Maybe they should've figured out there was a problem then.

* May have trouble even with a calculator due to difficulties in the process of feeding in variables.

I often press the wrong button when I'm doing something and don't realise it. As a result, I never trust calculators.

* May reverse or transpose numbers for example 63 for 36, or 785 for 875.

Already spoke about that. It's also a symptom of APD. I have both.

* Difficulty with conceptualizing time and judging the passing of time.

Anyone ever wonder why I quickhammer, thinking the deadline is in about 5 minutes? It's because of this.

* Difficulty with everyday tasks like checking change.

To make it worse, I work on the tills in a shop.

* Difficulty keeping score during games.

The reason I don't play table tennis or badminton competitively. I find keeping track of vote counts difficult too because of this.

* Inability to comprehend financial planning or budgeting, sometimes even at a basic level, for example, estimating the cost of the items in a shopping basket or balancing a checkbook.

The reason why I accidentally spend £200 in 2 weeks and am short of cash very quickly after getting paid.

* Inability to grasp and remember mathematical concepts, rules, formulae, and sequences.

The only way I can grasp a mathematical concept is if it's put into some sort of ridiculous picture. Me and my friend in maths at school quickly found out that the only way I could do trig was by drawing a very screwed picture of an ice-cream and labelling the sides. Ironically, out of all the concepts I have managed to grasp, it's Standard Deviation and Simultaneous Equations.

* May have a poor sense of direction (i.e., north, south, east, and west), potentially even with a compass.

This one doesn't actually bother me. I'm fine in this area.

* May have difficulty mentally estimating the measurement of an object or distance (e.g., whether something is 10 or 20 feet away).

I have been known to be stuck by the side of the road for 15 minutes not knowing whether or not it's safe to cross.

------------

Btw, me arguing with people and taking offence is not a tell of alignment. It's a sign that I'm PMSing. >_> (Seriously. The first day of Day One in Ladies Mafia and my stomach is fucking killing me and silly little things make me want to cry...like this post )

[UncertainKitten]

@Hoopla: It's more accurate to say that I read as obv town within a couple posts if I'm town, and tend to be considered null as scum, in my experience. Perhaps it's different to you, but that's the trend I've noticed as of late.

I'll also note that any recent scum meta I have is rather awkward because of the circumstances surrounding it. I don't believe I've been caught out by sheer scumhunting recently, and it's been more often things outside my control. Well, actually, zoraster's bastard game was my fault for using a terrible strategy. Another game where I've flipped scum in is ongoing but also had things that were indeed outside my control. I still did rather valiantly I think given the circumstances. I can't think of much more in the way of scum meta, though I have some third party as well.

Anyway, probably also of note is I tend to be polarizing, but as of late I've also mostly stuck to my mod vote until something piques my interest, which can take as many as 10 pages depending on how long it takes for someone to show scum intent.

So far it's all chaff.

[Hoopla]

Dyslexia I have an intriguing version of because my spelling is generally perfect, it's just whether or not I get the correct word that's the problem. One might suggest using a spell check, but that's not going to work if the words spelt right. For example, I got penalised in my coursework because I wrote 'phonetic' rather than 'problematic'.

That isn't dyslexia. And I feel like you're strongly exaggerating with these;

* Difficulty with conceptualizing time and judging the passing of time.

Anyone ever wonder why I quickhammer, thinking the deadline is in about 5 minutes? It's because of this.

* Difficulty with everyday tasks like checking change.

To make it worse, I work on the tills in a shop.

* Difficulty keeping score during games.

The reason I don't play table tennis or badminton competitively. I find keeping track of vote counts difficult too because of this.

If you have such difficulty counting and keeping track of votes and money you wouldn't be running newbie games, and you wouldn't be working on cash registers in shops after your boss realises your till is always out random amounts of money. Even if you are lying/exaggerating, I feel like this is a dead end, because it's something you'd probably be telling me regardless. We're shifting away from the exaggeration of personal statistics, and it's probably my fault there. So, moving back on track - I struggle to believe you messed up that one equation, especially after having someone else check it for you.

I don't think it's inherently scummy, but it is an anti-town mindset, because it shows you're prepared to exaggerate/mislead in order to improve your point or win an argument. I hope you don't think I am picking on you at all - this is just how I am interpreting it, and I think I am right. And it partially justifies my vote, because I think there are times and will be times when you exaggerate to try and prove a point. What do you think about that?

[RedCoyote]

The strikethrough indicates that the player has left that position since the last vote count. Hopefully this will help you keep track of where a player was when she unvoted, rather than just where she currently is. If it confuses you at all, just ignore it.

All votecounts will be posted here for your reference.

---

Vote Count 1.1

• Haylen

  (2) (Hoopla - Haylen)
  
  
  Hoopla
  (1) (Sucrose)
  
  
  Sotty7
  (1) (esuriospiritus)
  
  
  Not Voting
  (11) (UncertainKitten - Ojanen -

  Sucrose

  - camn - chauchaudotcom - Sotty7 -

  Hoopla

  - cepi - Apokalyptika - Paws -

  Haylen

  - Fenchurch - DrippingGoofball - Snow_Bunny -

  esuriospiritus

  )

With fifteen alive, it takes eight to lynch.
Current Deadline: Sept. 7th, 2010 at 12:15 PM (CST)

[Haylen]

FFS. I'M NOT A FUCKING LIAR AND I'M NOT EXAGGERATING. I GOT DIAGNOSED WITH ALL 4 OF THESE THINGS BACK IN JANUARY CAUSE THE SYSTEM HERE SUCKS.

WHAT DO I THINK ABOUT IT. I THINK I'M REALLY PISSED OFF.

[Hoopla]

Okay, I'm sorry. Lets talk about something else then.

[Haylen]

Okies. What's you're favourite type of bread? ^_^

[UncertainKitten]

@Mod: You forgot my vote for Red Coyote!

It is very important it is counted for later game wagon analysis!

Singling me out, huh? How discriminatory!

[Haylen]

And there we go, I get pissed off again without actually reading into what Hoopla wrote.

My till is always correct at work because I take my time. Customers get pissy because I'm so slow and I don't have to do any calculations for it because the tills are computerated and they tell me how much change I'm supposed to give the customers - occassionally, I am out, but only when I'm rushing myself.

With my vote counts in newbie games, I read through the thread 3 times at least to make sure I haven't made a mistake. I know if I didn't do that, I'd have 4 or 5 people voting for the same person. The most classic mistake I make is putting the persons name by the person they're voting and forgetting to take it off of the last person they're voting.

Because I got diagnosed so late, I thought I was just thick and had to develop my own coping strategies. That's what I did here.

The reason why I got that equation wrong is because I counted wrong. When I counted, I saw my scum win rate to be 11/12 when written as a fraction.

Do I think you're picking on me? Yes. I always think people are picking on me. I can't get rid of the small part at the back of my mind that tells me over and over that everybody hates me and wants to kill me. Two weeks ago, I thought 2 people on IRC were coming to kill me because they hadn't been online for ages. My mind twists everything to make it seem to me as though when something happens, that person hates me. For example, Incognito took longer than 15 minutes to reply to the third message I sent last night, whereas with the first two messages I had a reply in 5 minutes. My brain told me that cause he hates me and that I should be dead.

It's nothing against you. It's against me.

[Sotty7]

Hi. Are you scum?

Hi. Thankfully no, I'm not. Being scum makes me nervous and stresses me out especially recently since people suddenly think I am a scum mastermind. Since we are old battle hardened war buddies wanna tell me if your scum? If you are I'll make your death quick and painless, I promise.

= = = = =

I don't see how any of this Haylen v Hoop talk has anything to do with actual mafia. I think Hoop is intentionally pushing Haylen's buttons but Haylen is overreacting and playing the victim. As a fellow dyslexia suffer it annoys me when people use it as a crutch.

I just don't understand how you could mess up that equation. Can you explain Dyscalculia to me more, and how it affects you? (I'm not trying to be rude)

Why ask this question? It does nothing but add fluff to the thread.

Vote: Hoopla

[Haylen]

Hey Sotty, care to operationalise overreaction?