/in-vitational Game 8 - Nito City (over) after 1015

[Locke Lamora]

You do make some good points. Zach seems exceptionally passive in every post. Let's see where this goes.

Unvote; Vote: Zachrulez

[Sotty7]

Excellent.

Farside, MOI what say the pair of you? Wanna help me wagon my husband?

[Incognito]

Vote Count #8 of Day 1

Charlie (4) <-~ Ythan, MagnaofIllusion, farside22, Sando
MagnaofIllusion (3) <-~ Jack, Zajnet, Charlie
Jack (1) <-~ imkingdavid
Zajnet (2) <-~ Porochaz, Zachrulez
Zachrulez (2) <-~ Sotty7, Locke Lamora

12 living; 7 will do it.

Deadline:

Thursday, August 19th at 12 A.M. EST

[Ythan]

Currently investigating isos for noteworthy incidents. Any suggestions?

[Incognito]

Zachrulez has requested replacement and was kind enough to get someone to take his spot. jasonT1981 is the new Zachrulez. Thanks, jason.

[jasonT1981]

Hey guys, catching up ASAP.. expect posts tomorrow afternoon (UK time) ita a bit to late to do a full read through tonight. 2.30am

So, I will

unvote:Zajnet

for now until I can form my own opinions.

[jasonT1981]

First off.... Sottys RVS vote on Zach is no surprise to me.

Not to sure if I like Magna post 18 with his RVS vote on Zajnet, seems it is not actually as Random and more due to past issues. Interesting.

Magna in post 19 completly misreps Zaj about not voting...

not sure if I like Jacks response to questioning about astricks in his IAMKD vote... says not to role fish. I don't understand How this is rolefishing.

Jack then accuses him further of Rolefishing (23)... huh? not sure I like the blatent misreps on Sando by Jack. There is no Rolefishing. It was a question about astricks in the name... nothing more. Jack is very defencive early on.

FOS JACK

Jack 26 goes hyper defensive and crazy with his vote on San.. I in no way see rolefishing.

wow Sotty votes Jack... Jack goes crazy and OMGUS votes Sotty... Misrep, and OMGUS... loving the early stuff here.... Jack is being weirder than normal.

Sotty asks how it was Rolefishing... Jack(36) refuses saying it is a horrid idea.

Dont like Farsides defending of Jack in 38&39.. in my experience Jack is a bit out there, but not as openly defensive as I have seen him in this.. it is deff a change from Jack I do not like

Sotty (49) I don't think Jack is being Jack here... I seriously think there is more of an edge to him on this... he is more defensive and high strung.

don't like Farsides 51 reply to Sotty when she mentions her vote being good - You are one big wall of helpful there aren't you. (sarcasm) I feel it was a valid point.. Right now at this stage my vote would have been on Jack

Porochaz(53) jump on Sotty is weird.... I seen nothing wrong with her stance on Jack.. at this point I feel the same


I don't agree with my predecessors assessemnt about Porochaz and Sotty's votes on Jack looking opportunistic...

I like Zachs vote on Porochaz in 64

Sotty 70 - She is right about Porochaz vote on her... it did seem a while before he moved it over.

FOS: Porochaz

So far, Im getting a town read on Sotty... I don't like Jacks vote on Sotty in 72

Jack 74... urgh wanting to know why Manga isnt voting sotty. Weak as hell case on Sotty so far I am not buying if anyone was being defensive its been him.

Zachs 81 is correct... Sotty will usually go after Zach if she is town. (She goes after me when she is scum)

Hmmm... something I have learned about sotty as we go deeper into page 4... when scum. She uses meta as a tool against someone alot more.

Right now I am getting the feeling peopel are thinking Jack is too scummy to be scum....

Jacks change of vote to LL and even his FOS are weird, no reasons given

I feel charlie jumped wagon easily onto Sotty

Jack again switching votes without reasson to Manga

Charlie does not seem interested in having 3 votes on him as of page 5

Charlie makes a point against Sotty 141. A few people were against the vote on Jack, Charlie. Admits to stalling.

fos: Charlie

So many V/LAs

King David vote on Jack.. I like

Onto page 7

Oh not good for Charlie.. unvotes Magna saying there are better lynches.. then says playing game with no fear and revotes next post?? wha??? (159-160)

CDB is lurking quite a bit.. or at least not adding much content.

missed Charlie put someone at L-1 just to see who would hammer, do not like this... not very town like at all. risks a hammer just to test something...

MOI Cheap shot at Zach... even though he is V/LA... His activity has dropped... say wha??

CDB ias still very quiet.. yet Sotty has not said a word on that, yet focused on Zach being quiet

Dont like Charlie 204.. he is trying to draw attention away by basically saying he is changing his playstyle... basically to avoid being metta'd I believe.then declares lets get lynching.

CDB replaces out?

Sotty 221 call on Charlie is good

Dont like Sottys unvote to vote Zach. spends so much time on Charlie... only to vote Zach, not sure as she has no case aside from he usually lurks as scuim.

Alright, finished my catch up.. so much for doing it tomorrow... anyway.

Scum

Jack
Charlie

On the fence

CDB/ replacement - Needs to post a lot more. Dont like Ythan only looking to read in ISO on people... needs a full read through to get a grasp on build up and reactions to peoples ISO

Sotty - She has good points on Zach, he does not be as active as scum... however Sotty does use meta more as scum to lynch people or gain momentum for lynches.

Everyone else I am unsure about. However I am not convinced by Zachs vote on Zaj... I don't see a problem as of yet with Zaj.

vote: Charlie

[Ythan]

There is nothing I can get out of a straight read that I can't get out of a dozen isos. It's all the same stuff. If anything it's better because I see the same scenarios a dozen times.

[jasonT1981]

whatever works for you I guess.

[farside22]

@farside Maybe its because it's been a while since Ive been in a game with you (- the PYP, which was unusual circumstances) however my read of you is your usually well reasoned, you explain your votes - or anything you do - well, you seem to be relying on your gut more, this may be because your not explaining your reasoning more, you also ask a lot more questions, which you did to a degree anyway but with a lot more volume now, you also are emphasising your votes more without really bringing anything new to the table, something that someone like Llama or tajo would do, and you are a lot more aggressive, it's like Mafia Mum has rebellious teenagers. You also didn't seem the type to do scum/town lists particularly as I thought you would prefer to keep them private due to the potential information that it gives. Oh and also letting CDB get away with what he is doing.

Meh the town/scum list started more because of DGB.
Gut is not a bad thing and if something reads false to me even if it's well reasoned I will listen to my gut and poke at things that bother me.
As for CDB I'm bond to missing lurking people. That is why I'm looking at people in iso to get a better feel of each person.

[farside22]

jasonT1981:
You Fos porochaz but he's not on your scum list. Any reason why?

Actually it's a good catch up post and yes I know I'm going off of my past experience with Jack. Rereading people in iso I'm less impressed and more uncertain.
If I had more then 10 minutes I would looking at MOI's examples.

[jasonT1981]

Aside from those things I pointed out aainst Poro.. there was nothing else I felt was suspicious except the voting thing early on. Charlie and Jack would be my main suspects. With one from Sotty or CDB/Ythan

[farside22]

Doing more iso's on people

# Locke Lamora - I think my biggest issue with Locke is a lack of push. I don't like his vote on Zack for no reason when he had a strong case on zajent that he's just falls off of.
Locke: What is your view on charlie's play? Why do you agree with sotty?
My flaw with Locke is he always seems scummy to me. I see some things I have liked from him but just that blahness I get reading his post. Idk I put him on the keep an eye on list for now.

# MagnaofIllusion - So orignally I felt and read things from MOI I disagreed with and didn't like his vote wait and then vote but damn he pushes cases and locks onto people with good and indepth reason.
Note to self look at the MOI wagon.
MOI: Who do you think is scum that was on your wagon? Is charlie the only person?
I'm going to go out on a limb and say I see MOI town at this point and eat crow for my vote from earlier now.

# Porochaz - I really don't like this comment:

Farside, do you feel on page 3, I should have extensive reasoning to my votes?

Tries to down play his reasoning.

I have caught up whilst I have some town reads but no scum reads as of yet, I need to read when its not early morning, however I think an

unvote

would be appropriate at the moment.

I always find that scum have hard times coming up with scum (since they know who is scum) and are trying to not buss their parnters.

In short Poro is on my scum list. He's been pretty quiet, nonagressive and doesn't really seem to try at all playing or scum hunting.

# Sando - on the fence. I found some good nuggets reading Sando but again another player not really pushing and prodding others. I get a lurkerish vibe without lurking but it's a vibe that I'm sure is just in my head.
I think my problem with Sando is our last game together he was scum and he could make mother teresa look like scum in my view. So chalk it up to lack of trust at this point.

[Incognito]

A little less than 20 hours until deadline. Please note my deadline lynch rules.

[Charlie]

Dont like Charlie 204.. he is trying to draw attention away by basically saying he is changing his playstyle... basically to avoid being metta'd I believe.then declares lets get lynching.

Actually I was hoping that any meta would be verified by what I said previously.

People! There is a little problem. I will be busy tomorrow and quite possibly won't be around for discussion towards near deadline.

So I would need to throw all my thoughts here now. In note form:

- For today's lynch: MagnaofIllusion, Porochaz, Zajnet
- I'd bet 1 lunch that farside22 isn't mafia.
- Jack's erratic, but I don't see it as mafia-ish.
- Not impressed by jasonT1981's long post (maybe it is because he votes me).
- Everyone else: does not stand out.

[Locke Lamora]

Farside: I haven't fallen off of the Zajnet case. The fact was, the only people who seemed to back it was the lurkfest that was Poro and Zach, and the most my pressure brought out of Zajnet was him admitting he wasn't very good at D1. Personally, I saw nothing town-worthy in his contributions at all, but it simply wasn't going anywhere and we're near deadline. Switching to Zach at least had the possibility of getting some momentum and interest up, and Sotty's right that he was completely failing to be proactive in this game (as I stated when I voted him). Sometimes you have to recognise the wagon's not working. Doesn't mean my suspicion of Zajnet's disappeared. As for Charlie, I find him pretty strange, in all honesty. A lot of the time he says bizarre or obscure things that I don't see the point to but I'm not sure if they're scummy or not. I do get a scummy read from his "I'm not really sure of what I'm doing" answer to Magna. It's a catch-all excuse in my book; if someone he wants lynched flips town, he falls back on 'so, I really don't know what I'm doing this game!'

Jason: what do you think of my vote on Zach?

[Locke Lamora]

Ok, so Zajnet has been online, posted in other games and yet can't be bothered to post in this one despite deadline being less than 24 hours away. His total contribution in the last week is a prod response and then a V/LA notice. He's just lurking out this lynch.

Unvote; Vote: Zajnet

Your turn, Sotty. Join me.

[Sotty7]

Hmmm... something I have learned about sotty as we go deeper into page 4... when scum. She uses meta as a tool against someone alot more.

Try again.

Newbie 960
The wire
Mini 932
Mini 934

Here are my last four town games, all of which I use meta in to some degree. Jason you were IN The Wire where as

town

I nailed you with meta. So your point here is clearly you trying misrep me to look bad and trying to save some face.

For the record Jason didn't mention Locke, Sando or Zajnet in his little read though. When he flips scum there will be at least one scum buddy in that three, I have seen him do this twice as scum now. The wire mafia and Zach town two

= = = = = =

Your turn, Sotty. Join me.

But the Zach/jason slot is likely scum

I suppose I'll vote Zajnet if it is needed. The fact Jason didn't comment on him or his wagon is a red flag to me. I'll hold onto my vote for now though.

[Locke Lamora]

Honestly, I'm getting particularly exasperated at Zajnet right now. I'm sharing your frustration that people would sign up for this and then lurk this heavily. The fact that he's bothered to come back and post in other games particularly irks me and gives me the impression that he is just staying well away from producing any content whatsoever at the business end of the day. It's so anti-town I'm compelled to vote him.

[Sotty7]

I didn't know he was posting in other games. *RAGE*

If I vote Zajnet today will you help me lynch Jason tomorrow?

[Sotty7]

I still prefer a Charlie lynch to a Zajnet one but I don't know how likely that will go though now.

[Charlie]

MoI wagon is no longer an option? No, I WANT his lynch today!

[Sotty7]

I don't think he has ever been a viable option.

[Charlie]

Oh no.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Excellent.

Farside, MOI what say the pair of you? Wanna help me wagon my husband?

I’d rather not end up with a No-lynch due to the deadline but I would support a Zach lynch. All he has done today is explain how the meta you describe isn’t accurate, attack me on some points, and latch onto another lurker’s wagon. Having done a little digging into his ISO I tend to agree with your meta assessment.

That said deadline is 10 hours away. I will probably not have much access past 4pm EDT so if a move is to be made I would need to make it in the next 3 or so hours.

@Sotty

– Does Zach’s sudden replace out reduce your thoughts about whether his slot is Scum?

Ok, so Zajnet has been online, posted in other games and yet can't be bothered to post in this one despite deadline being less than 24 hours away. His total contribution in the last week is a prod response and then a V/LA notice. He's just lurking out this lynch.

Agreed.

I’d also suggest that Jack needs some pressure immediately Day 2. He has posted nothing of content since ‘Sotty is scum’ post on August 3rd. He also hasn’t posted since August 11th.

There is nothing I can get out of a straight read that I can't get out of a dozen isos. It's all the same stuff. If anything it's better because I see the same scenarios a dozen times.

Great, whatever method you prefer is fine. Just get your thoughts in here ASAP. The deadline, as mentioned above, is about 10 hours away. I’d like for your slot to have something on record Day 1.

MOI: Who do you think is scum that was on your wagon? Is charlie the only person?

I’m glad you brought this up because looking at my wagon before Night was something that has been slipping my mind since I started pressuring Charlie.
Here are the reasons stated for votes against me –

VOTE: MagnaofIllusion
Got you.

I may also be V/LA this weekend (starting Thursday), depending on how things turn out (I might be going camping; no internet). I'll be more sure about it closer to that time.

This was a RVS vote and he removed it as soon as he notice my wagon quickly getting steam.

unvote, vote:Magna

Yes, the entirety of his post with a vote for me. He had previously expressed that I should have been voting Sotty (who I don’t think is scum based on my previous experience with her) and then FOSed me with no support. No movement on his vote since.

Oh you mean the excessive defense you fueled by asking me for game links
So their suspicion can't be legitimate because you think she's town?
Neither are you. Your whole scumlist pretty much consists of attacking lurkers.

Unvote: Vote: MOI

Zach kept this vote on me until his recent change to Zajnet. He didn’t question me further until I prodded him regarding is lack of input (while he as V/LA for a portion of that time, I acknowledge).

Oops, got prodded.

I don't know what to think of the Zach/Jack/Sotty/MOI/etc debate. I kind of trust Sotty's read on Zach, but at the same time I don't. Meh.

MOI is winning some serious scum points for voting shenanigans.

VOTE: MagnaofIllusion

His vote hasn’t moved since this post, and he also hasn’t pressured me with questions or comments.

So first your wrong about charlie not answering
You do realize that Locke's original vote on Sotty was RVS
Why isn't poro on your scum list then?
And yet I question you about your lack of vote on Sotty and suddenly you find a voice and vote charlie for (1) reason's that are false and (2) weak reason for his vote.

unvote:
vote: MOI

This vote has moved since then to farside’s other targets. He’s continued to question / pressure me even after vote moved.

Keeping in line with decision to be more aggressive, I'm going to place MagnaofIllsuion at L-1 now.
UNVOTE: Sotty7
VOTE: MagnaofIllusion
I have a divided opinion on him, but there are so many instances that I hesitated to place someone at L-1 for fear of a quickhammer by scum. I'm over that.
I ask that none of you hammer him without first stating intention to hammer.
He who fills the old pot and adds new knowledge is fit to be a teacher.

I think I’ve addressed this vote sufficiently during the day.

The relevant vote counts from Incognito –

MagnaofIllusion (5) <-~ imkingdavid, Jack, Zachrulez, Zajnet, farside22

Between these vote-counts Charlie takes me to L-1 and IKD and farside unvote.

MagnaofIllusion (4) <-~ Jack, Zachrulez, Zajnet, Charlie

It’s assumed in your question that I consider Charlie scum on my wagon.

That leaves the following players as potential scum on the wagon –

IKD, Jack, Zach, Zaj, farside

Of these I believe IKD and farside’s vote to be the least fishy. IKD’s was an RVS vote and he moved it as soon as he noticed the wagon quickly forming. Farside’s was built on suspicions formed during play and was followed by further pressue in the form of questions and threats to return the vote.

That leaves Jack, Zach and Zaj.

I feel that Zaj’s and Jack’s are poorly grounded. Jack’s reasons amount to stating ‘he’s scummy and I don’t think it bears explanation’ and Zaj’s is basically ‘ditto farside’. I would rate Zaj’s more scummy than Jack’s based solely on wagon position. Jack was the second vote while Zaj was the fourth.

Zach’ vote was at least presented with suspicions. I find him scummy for other reasons (the already mentioned Sotty meta).

I doubt all three scum would possibly all be on the wagon at the same time. It’s a possibility but seems pretty reckless to me.

I’d place Zajnet – Jack – Zach as a decending order of suspicion based solely on the votes.

Overall I’d say Zach is more likely to be scum with Zajnet and Jack neck and neck right behind.

- For today's lynch: MagnaofIllusion, Porochaz, Zajnet
- I'd bet 1 lunch that farside22 isn't mafia.
- Jack's erratic, but I don't see it as mafia-ish.
- Not impressed by jasonT1981's long post (maybe it is because he votes me).
- Everyone else: does not stand out.

Regarding your scum list – should I be suspicious that your list consists of me (your biggest pursuer), Poro (the top scum read of farside who is your one Town read) and Zajnet (who is lurking)?

Aside from a RVS Poro vote he doesn’t appear ANYWHERE in your ISO prior to being put on your ISO list. Ditto for Zaj. It looks like you basically have just thrown two perceived popular targets on your list.

Did you read Jack’s three recent games that I posted? Are you saying his game here resembles a Town game?

I have to say I’m really a bit discouraged at the activity level shown here for an invitational game. I expected more dedication. We’ve had two replacements; IKD has suggested he was thinking of being replaced, and others putting little effort into the game.