Ladies Night -- Game Over

[camn]

Hm. That is a funny reaction. But an authentic one I think.

Kitten = town.

[Haylen]

So unladylike, FL

Looking back at everything i've said, all I can say is "wtf, Rena, wtf." I apologise for being a bit of a bitch the past few days, on top of pmsing, I've had an engagement party to plan - where my fiance's father may not be able to make it now, I've found out I might lose my flat next year cause my fiance didn't get into Uni, I'm not very well myself and I'm trying to look after my brother. Not to mention phone calls and death threats someone who hates me is making towards myself and my family. So yeh, that's why I've been a little bit emotional.

I stick by my camn read. I no longer have a newb-town read on Paws, it's Newb-neutral at best. I have a neutral-town read of FL at the moment. I don't have a clue what to make of Hoopla, but I can still see her and camn as a scumteam. Sotty is neutral-scum to me at the moment and that's primarily what has been said by other people and a gut read. I can't remember who else is in the game ^_^;

[Snow_Bunny]

Kitten... You say it's silly...Yet you object to my demonstration with bunny as to why policy lynching is not only awesome, but also widespread?

Let's get back to that.

Bunny/buddy: I am not trying to twist you into anything. I am trying to point out to you that:
a) policy voting is fine.
b) policy LYNCHING is even better
c) policy vigging is the best.

That said... You seem to support a) yet attack me for supporting b).
If you are town, you will see the illogic there, and withdraw your vote.
If you are scum, then your vote for me is built on crap to begin with, so this discussion is meaningless.

Which is it?

Why are those two the only two options? Please, don't play dumb with me. A voting doesn't mean a lynch, and they are not on the same level. When a wagon builds, more info can be drawn upon, both on the wagoners and on the wagonee. With that extra info, a better, non-policy lynch can be reached. So, stop suggesting that a policy vote means a policy lynch. And, btw, just saying, it's only your opinion that policy lynching/vigging are great. I beg to differ.

Come on girls, more camn love. This reaction to my vote is interesting.

[camn]

Scum then, sticking to a crap case? That is fine.
SnowBunny = scum.

Haylen, OTOH, = town.
She would buddy me as scum.
It is only her fear of my betraying her that drives her towards suspecting me.
Haylen.. relax. I'm town here! Its no trick. I am just working very hard in RL, which dampens my spirits. Did you find my breadcrumb yet?

DGB........ why

aren't

you voting? Is this a softer, gentler DGB?
Shall we lynch Paws?
I disagree on chauchau.. I am not convinced she is scum.
Soty I could see... but she is playing, at least.

[Paws]

There is someone coming off as scummy to me right now.. Shall keep to myself for now though.

[Snow_Bunny]

camn, obviously.

Why would you keep it to yourself? Benching too much?

[UncertainKitten]

/me facepalms

Paws...

Nah, you know what? Screw it, camn can get lynched later, I highly doubt she'll stop providing evidence.

Unvote, Vote Paws

[esuriospiritus]

I'm really not quite so sure about sotty as I may have appeared in my post earlier today, DGB; it's just that if Paws is scum I immediately want to scrutinize Sotty, and Paws is pretty scummy, so therefore sotty gets put in my list too. TBQH I'm fighting a bias of

not

wanting to think sotty is scummy due to admiring what I've seen of her play (I have this problem with other people, too, but it's not as relevant due to the other people in question not doing anything to make me question the towniness I so want to believe they possess), and I'm trying to keep that bias from

actually

colouring my perception of her too much, but it makes me kind of waffly in my head.

Paws is being... silly (stealing your word, UK) with withholding thoughts about suspects. 'Silly' is really not the word I want to use, but I'm aware that I've come home from work severely agitated and I'm trying not to take that agitation out on someone else. So... 'silly'. BUT SRSLY PAWS, WHY ARE YOU NOT DOING THE ONE THING NUMEROUS PEOPLE HAVE ASKED YOU TO DO. FRELLING. SHARE. YOUR. THOUGHTS. ASRGIARGJADJGADFKAAAKLJASKLJGDKLJSADFLJKSADGLHAWRHLEIOHJ.

So yeah, right now I am waiting on Sotty and Chau to post regarding my post earlier today (and in general). Huzzah.

[Sucrose]

Would you mind linking me?

Sure. Newbie 859. It was only my second game, so I was pretty n00bish. Haylen drew a little suspicion early on, if I remember right, then everyone thought she was town, then she got NK'd.

cepi is unimpressive. And trying desperately to seem that way.

@Sucrose: First paragraph. Lol no. What's interesting is I said I'd elaborate if asked.

I don't remember you doing this, and I don't see it.

Serious question: Do you have a history of getting mislynched early in games? If not, I have no clue why you're getting so damned angry in response to so little. Haylen I can understand, because she was being insulted personally, but I've never seen town (aside from certain

interesting

players) get so pissed off just from one or two people attacking or arguing with them. It's a scumtell. I don't care if that pisses you off either.

Why are those two the only two options? Please, don't play dumb with me. A voting doesn't mean a lynch, and they are not on the same level. When a wagon builds, more info can be drawn upon, both on the wagoners and on the wagonee. With that extra info, a better, non-policy lynch can be reached. So, stop suggesting that a policy vote means a policy lynch. And, btw, just saying, it's only your opinion that policy lynching/vigging are great. I beg to differ.

Come on girls, more camn love. This reaction to my vote is interesting.

I like this post, and not just because I agree with the theory.

Paws: No, Paw's play has not been good, and I have no clue why anyone, town or scum, would think announcing that you're withholding a scum hunch would be a good idea. That said, how about waiting 'til we see the content she promises for tomorrow before bandwagoning?

[Apokalyptika]

Apology accepted, UK.

Hoopla: After skimming through a couple games you played, I'm finding you somewhat more suspicious. In Large Normal 105, you were town. In Mini 909 and Mini 865, you were scum. In each of the latter two, you said some things that drew definite attention to you (in the first, fakeclaiming miller; in the second, suggesting random D1 lynch.) In the game where you were town, I didn't see any such dramatic statements. To me, this indicates that you aren't afraid of drawing attention to yourself as scum, such as you did at the beginning of this day.

Haylen: I find you hard to read, since your playstyle is emotional and hyperactive, which makes it harder to pick out scumtells. One thing I did notice is your subtle defense of Paws; while others have noted that Paws is experienced on other sites and thus can't be called a newb, you maintained that Paws was feeling like newb-town, and even when she keeps refusing to post content you only downgrade her to newb-neutral. If Paws is town, then this isn't as revealing, but if Paws ever turns up as scum, I think this is a worthy avenue to explore.

However, it occurs to me that there are more than 4 players in this game that I can have lots of fun commenting on, so:

Paws: Nothing to say here that hasn't been said by others. I googled the mafia sites linked to in her sig, and GDS and MafiaCentral appear to be somewhat legit on first glance. Haven't read any of her games, but hopefully this puts to rest any of the newb defenses. Also, there is no excuse for stating you have suspicions and refusing to elaborate.

esurio: Generally nice. Says a lot, but there's a lot of noncommittal stuff going on in there. Your first vote for me was because of gut, overjustification, and the use of the word 'interesting'. Your vote for chau, while backed up with decent reasoning, has the caveat of "That's the vibe I get, anyway." I think you made some interesting points, such as possible coaching by Sotty, but the wishy-washy language nags at me.

cepi: Not enough to get an opinion (for the record, I made that post on Hoopla while people were posting at a rapid pace, so by the time I finally submitted it, I had become more suspicious of Hoop than when I started.)

chauchau: I'm liking you at the moment; you made good points on Snow_Bunny and esurio and seem helpful.

Snow_Bunny:

-snip-
Come on girls, more camn love. This reaction to my vote is interesting.

Hmm...

interesting

? Given that this actually has no elaboration behind it, would you like to give some? Also, esurio, any comment?

Sotty7: Post 110 The first part here where you call out Haylen for her attitude towards Paws is made out of all sorts of win. As I said before, there is some suggestion of coaching in the latter half, but on the whole, this and other posts give me a town feel.

UncertainKitten: You do a fair bit of good discussion. Question: In your last post related to me, did you mean that you thought me scummy or that you thought I was a dumbass? I'm sensing the first more, but I'm not entirely sure. On the whole, worth keeping around.

With all that said,

Vote: Paws

. This puts her to L-3 if I counted right. Easy wagon? Maybe, but her behavior is scummy, and even if she is town I judge her to be the most expendable of any of us. Also, pressure has been known to turn coal into diamonds.

[RedCoyote]

Vote Count 1.4

• Paws

  (4) (Sotty7 -

  Hoopla

  - camn - UncertainKitten - Apokalyptika)
  
  
  camn
  (2) (

  UncertainKitten

  - Snow_Bunny - Haylen -

  Apokalyptika

  )
  
  
  Apokalyptika
  (1) (

  esuriospiritus

  - cepi)
  
  
  Snow_Bunny
  (1) (chauchaudotcom)
  
  
  UncertainKitten
  (1) (Sucrose)
  
  
  Sucrose
  (1) (Hoopla)
  
  
  chauchaudotcom
  (1) (esuriospiritus)
  
  
  Not Voting
  (4) (Ojanen - Paws - Fenchurch - DrippingGoofball -

  Apokalyptika

  )

With fifteen alive, it takes eight to lynch.
Current Deadline: Sept. 7th, 2010 at 12:15 PM (CST)

[Sotty7]

Sorry for not posting yesterday ladies. Dealing with a sick husband all day then I kinda collapsed in bed early afterward. Catching up on what I missed.

[Sotty7]

SCUMPUTER: SCUM DETECTED

Can you explain a bit more?

Sure could, sweet stuff.

It's the whining about hating to be scum. Sotty is describing her reactions when she picked up her role PM. That's why they are so vivid. They are recent, and very real.

It's Sotty describing the recent heat she has been getting for her scum game (post 182 is a good example of what I am talking about.) It's good heat, so I can't really complain. It just makes me stress even more when I am scum because I have been under more pressure lately. Hence I prefer playing as town.

= = = = = =

I've posted very little here....

No, you've posted a lot yet said

nothing

.

= = = = = =

So yeah, right now I am waiting on Sotty and Chau to post regarding my post earlier today (and in general). Huzzah.

I don't really have much to say in reference to your coaching accusation because really I am some what guilty of it. Paws is new to the site and yet has played several games. If she is town and has no clue how our games work now she has no excuse. Myself and others have laid it out to her what is expected. Since then she has done nothing to help the town or do anything in the ways of scum hunting. She hasn't even tried to participate in the game. As far as I am concerned she active lurking scum at this point, even new townies would try to scum hunt.

[UncertainKitten]

@Sucrose: First, learn to read.

Second, I rarely get mislynched. I get a good wagon on me D1, I repel it because I'm pretty clearly not scum, and from that wagon we catch the scum.

I don't get pissed at cases, I get pissed at REALLY STUPID LOGIC.

You have engaged in the latter. I love how you're attempting to twist my words.

And now let's move to the scumtell portion. First of all, scumtells are a really stupid way to catch scum. All you end up doing is trying to quantify a series of things that end up implicating...one of the most active players because they've had the highest chance of doing these vague things. Scum INTENT is how you catch scum. I'll give you an easy question since you can actually probably answer this one intelligently.

How does it benefit Scum UK to have gotten pissed off at your incredibly stupid logic?

Maybe, but her behavior is scummy, and even if she is town I judge her to be the most expendable of any of us. Also, pressure has been known to turn coal into diamonds

EEK! NO! THIS! BAD!

@Apok: You're going to have to link the post since I can't find it in my ISO. I noticed a mild hypocrisy IIRC.

@S_B: Earlier you asked me about Sucrose. Part of her post reads as just incredibly naive and possibly stupid, other parts of her post read with scum intent. I'm still not sure I'd vote her per se.

[Snow_Bunny]

Wow, I iso'd Paws and I must say that there's nothing there. Nine posts of pure nothingness. Seems like someone is active lurking, and let's add the benching, and we have something worthy here.

FoS: Paws

However, I prefer my vote on camn now. Her reaction to my vote has caught my attention (a bit too much for a vote so early on, imo), and I like the pressure there.

[Snow_Bunny]

Oh, let's not forget camn's subtle omgus in #178.

[Sotty7]

cepi

needs to get in here and actually play the game. She does give strong opinions in her run down post, but she isn't actually in here getting her hands dirty. I don't like it.

Apoka

is giving me that proactive feeling. I have already mentioned how I didn't like the hate she got for the “interesting” post. That said, I didn't like her slow move over to camn. Starting with the FOS before moving over with a vote here. The reasoning for this vote is pretty bad. She undercuts her own argument with the whole too scummy to be scum deal. I feel like this was more of a pressure vote than “I think you are scummy” vote and yet she seems to leave it open to jump onto camn for actually being scummy. Testing the waters maybe?

I would find this more scummy if she was clinging onto this vote, but she looks into some meta and reevaluates her position. She could be scum back tracking, but it feels genuine. I'm leaning town here.

chauchau

is blowing up Snow Bunny's play style a little too much for my liking. It feels like a weak argument, pressuring someone for something they haven't even done yet. Yeah, I don't like it. I was also caught a little off guard with how she mirrored my wording from post 89 in her post 92 It's just a little sentence but it made me uneasy. Even though we were talking about different things, it was as if she was trying to copy my thought process to get me to side with her on this issue.

I do like post 126. The pressure on Paws is good as is her questions on Haylen and Apoka. This however:

In any case your post was like a classic way for scum to set themselves up and use their playstyle as an excuse. I just don't buy it. Self-proclaimed lurkers are never a good sign.

..is a cop out. The game is 8 pages deep, if the best thing you have to go on here is someones self proclaimed play style, something is wrong. Leaning scum.

Snow

I'm having a hard time reasoning your vote on camn. The last time I checked, camn wasn't pushing a policy lynch in this game unless you count the Paw's wagon as a policy lynch. Do you not think your lock on her is like chauchau's focus on you? I do like your reasoning here but still, can you outline exactly why your vote is on camn right now?

Sucrose

in light of Paw's most recent post what is your opinion of her now? There isn't actually a whole lot sucrose's ISO at this point and that doesn't look very good. Wanting to see her response to Hoops vote.

= = = = =

I'm thinking a Paws/chauchau/cepi scum team. cepi is kinda just thrown in there right now because I don't have a strong enough scum read of anyone else.

DGB is being DGB hopefully as the game goes on I'll be able to get a read on her. Gut tells me camn v UK is town on town, I need to review though. Haylen needs to play the game. Hoop has melted into the background after her running start, something to note.

[Snow_Bunny]

Her reaction to my vote, proposing policy lynching and omgus. That's the thing on camn.

[camn]

Oh, let's not forget camn's subtle omgus in #178.

There is nothing subtle about it.
Plus, omgus isn't a scumtell.
But failing to see how obvtown

>I<

am? totally a tell

PLease... follow Sotty's advice.
Incidentally, I almost agree with everything in Soty's last post there.

Ah, preview edit:
Bunny: what about my reaction is scum-motivated?
And has it sunk in yet that by voting me, you are proposing lynching me for my playstyle? I don't think this is scummy in itself.. I love lynching people for their playstyle.. but it is internally inconsistent with YOU.
In order to find scum, you have to identify things that people do or say

when

they are scum..

that they DON'T do or say as town

!
There are no absolute tells, only relative ones.... which is why the camn-hater playbook is such a failure.
But, keep it up if you like. It is going nowhere, and won't help us catch any scum. Which is probably fine with you.

ATTN LADIES: I work a 24hour shift starting now. Maybe online, maybe not... then I sleep..then I wake up sunday.

[UncertainKitten]

Remind me to reread camn in ISO when I'm not in a lazy mood. She's said some interesting things that may cause me to revise my read.

[Paws]

Paws: Nothing to say here that hasn't been said by others. I googled the mafia sites linked to in her sig, and GDS and MafiaCentral appear to be somewhat legit on first glance. Haven't read any of her games, but hopefully this puts to rest any of the newb defenses. Also, there is no excuse for stating you have suspicions and refusing to elaborate.

You won't find any games I've been scum in and knew what I was doing though.
My only good scum games are on The Crazy Off-Shoot.

[chauchaudotcom]

@Snow_Bunny - Fair enough.

Wellp, the tone is town in the post I said had town intent. So, I really don't see your point besides splitting hairs. Anyway, if Snow_Bunny actually lurks, that can be dealt with. If she doesn't, then there's no need to try to castigate her for what she might do. Are you some sort of thought police?

Well the whole point being that I initially thought you had a town read on es because of you saying she posted with a 'town intent'. Like I said to camn, evidently I misinterpreted. As far as I can see this whole discussion has done nothing to help town so let's just drop it.

As for Snow_Bunny, I wasn't voting her because she

will or will not

lurk, I was voting because she

proclaimed

herself as a lurker. I have seen it used more for scum purposes then town which is why I'm voting her.

I fail to see how this is the "hypocrisy" you claim it is. over justifying =! having a moderately reliable tell and using it, kthx.

How is the use if the word 'interesting' a reliable tell?

Chau has a disturbing knack for making things out to be a bigger deal than they are, I think, and I see scum intent with that. Push a boundary here, agitate a person there, until something sticks and then VOILA! a mislynch. That's the vibe I get, anyway.

When have I made a big deal out of something? Plus, you do realize what game we are playing right? This game is all about gauging reactions. You attack people and analyze their reactions.

current guess for scumteam if I HAD to shoot three people right this moment is chau/paws/sotty, overwhelmingly due to gut. Apo is the nonexistent fourth scum. HUZZAH.

Why is Apo the 4th scum if you had a "moderately reliable tell"?

ISO says my newb town read on Paws is wrong ._. I swear she posted more content than that :/

Could you answer my question please?

There is someone coming off as scummy to me right now.. Shall keep to myself for now though.

Why would you keep it to yourself? If you think someone is scummy you should be voting/pursuing/hounding their asses.

[quite="Sucrose"]Sure. Newbie 859. It was only my second game, so I was pretty n00bish. Haylen drew a little suspicion early on, if I remember right, then everyone thought she was town, then she got NK'd. [/quote]

Thanks Sucrose.

..is a cop out. The game is 8 pages deep, if the best thing you have to go on here is someones self proclaimed play style, something is wrong. Leaning scum.

I voted her early page 5 my friend. And, to be quite honest, this is my first large game and I'm a little overwhelmed.

--

I will...spend my day isoing people then.

[Haylen]

Cauch: What question?

[chauchaudotcom]

Paws.

Why would you keep it to yourself? Benching too much?

BUT SRSLY PAWS, WHY ARE YOU NOT DOING THE ONE THING NUMEROUS PEOPLE HAVE ASKED YOU TO DO. FRELLING. SHARE. YOUR. THOUGHTS. ASRGIARGJADJGADFKAAAKLJASKLJGDKLJSADFLJKSADGLHAWRHLEIOHJ.

No, Paw's play has not been good, and I have no clue why anyone, town or scum, would think announcing that you're withholding a scum hunch would be a good idea. That said, how about waiting 'til we see the content she promises for tomorrow before bandwagoning?

Why would you keep it to yourself? If you think someone is scummy you should be voting/pursuing/hounding their asses.

[chauchaudotcom]

Cauch: What question?

"Could see a Hoopla/camn scum pair."

I think someone asked before but I can't find your answer anywhere. So again, reasoning please.