NY 118 - BBM's Large Normal Mafia (Game!)

[hiphop]

FoS: hiphop

Blatant wagoning. I at least have reasons for joining the wagon, despite what everyone else thinks. You don't.

Really? Oh I do. In fact, you gave a reason that I may have with your first four words. A reason is a reason, is it not?

[flinter]

And the reason I still have no real stance between who's Scum or Town is because it's only been a day since the game started, last I checked 1/4 of the players still haven't checked in past the confirmation stage, and it's really hard to not tunnel on the most prolific players of the game, which most seem to be doing. Someone said we need to utilize all the time we have and they are absolutely right. With 24 players, we have a lot of scum to catch, and a lot of time to do it.

Apart from the first part of the post, that I didn't quote, this is good posting. For someone who selfvotes in his first post, this is a surprising well-reasoned post. I agree with everything in this quote.

hiphop is clearly looking better then Wraith, who is too eager to tell everybody that he had "reasons" to join a wagon. Everybody can make up excuses to join a wagon.

[danakillsu]

@ flinter
It seems to me you're telling me not to make posts of my impressions or testosterone-fueled posts, or whatever, but your impression of what is backing my posts is making you ignore their actual content. I think I've done a good job of showing Furc to be scum, but you are refusing to deal with the actual meat of my case against him. And I find it hard to believe that you are advising me to take this game more seriously. The only post that wasn't serious was my first.

HoS: Hiphop

Do you really not care at all about this game?

[ConfidAnon]

From start of page 5 - danakillsu is certainly being antitown, but this could be both town failage or scumf failage. Also, just in case this is the case, because I recognize the username, if your experience you are referring to comes from epicmafia, prepare to be a noob again. This is a whole different ballgame.

JDodge's aggressiveness is good for getting us out of the RVS, but overall a null tell.

Furcolow's change from "I'm not changing my vote" to "if you strawman one more time I'm changing my vote to you" is strange, but I don't think it's that scummy.

danakillsu is insane, and the dana/furcolow exchange at the bottom of page 6 is headdesk worthy.

Reading further beyond that, I am even more confident in my vote. Dana is flailing, and is lashing out only at his primary accuser, and nitpicking at that. If you're town, prove it by making a meaningful contribution.

This quote bothers me. It seems like "I'm not posting, but I want to look like I'm posting." "Flailing" can apply to anything if you try hard enough. Lashing out at his primary accuser isn't exactly the scummiest thing in the world (the primary accuser would have the most to respond to), and nitpicking is a nulltell. The diction used in this post seems like trying to further smear danakillsu without having to provide much content. In other words, contributing to a wagon without actually contributing. The last sentence is pointless, but still has the connotations of scumhunting. Could potentially be subtle coaching. Wraith doesn't want to bus on day 1? A stretch, but if one of them is scum, this ties them together quite nicely.

IS he still in this game?
@Mod requesting prod

If this is in reference to me, I got kind of busy with last week being the first week of school, so I didn't get to check MS for a couple days. It's only been two days, and there are ten pages already. :O

Also, two games I'm in started during this time, and both are pretty active. Joy. But anyways, I'm back and ready to play.

Hitting scum day 1 in a large normal is luck, so let's just lynch someone and get it over with.

I agree with this, but for different reasons. A large normal really has the potential to have a thread basically unreadable due to length. There is no point in Day 1 going into 20+, 30+ etc pages, and only makes things immensely difficult if we need replacements. We will gain a lot of information from flips, and we already have quite a bit of content to analyze. This day should not last forever, imo.

With that said, it's only been two days. We should wait a little longer.

Lots of reading to be done, but I want to make a comment before I finish.

FoS: hiphop Blatant wagoning. I at least have reasons for joining the wagon, despite what everyone else thinks. You don't. I'm not letting you slip in under the radar.

Also, I've realized I'm getting tunnel vision. Gonna start concentrating on other players for now, dana has enough pressure and has slipped up enough times.

Mainly gut, but this post I feel is very scummy. Although, the last line further enforces the wraith/dana scumteam idea.

[Wickedestjr]

I don't like flinter's points against Xite.

UltimaAvalon:

He's been very active but his posts have consisted of questions to other players and him defending his PoV, but I don't think he has given any of his actual thoughts on the game yet from skimming him in iso. He has avoided taking any stances.

FoS: UltimaAvalon

I don't necessarily have a stance. I spent most of my time yesterday reacting to the explosion of posts, tying to stop bullshit before it could get started (JDodge), and dealing with terribad players (Dana, Frank) to the point where I eventually said fuck it and left to play Torchlight.

And the reason I still have no real stance between who's Scum or Town is because it's only been a day since the game started, last I checked 1/4 of the players still haven't checked in past the confirmation stage, and it's really hard to not tunnel on the most prolific players of the game, which most seem to be doing. Someone said we need to utilize all the time we have and they are absolutely right. With 24 players, we have a lot of scum to catch, and a lot of time to do it.

Just because we have a lot of time to catch scum doesn't mean we should wait a few days before giving our reads. In addition, I'm not asking you to tell us who all the scum are and give cases against all of them, but I would like some opinions. We also don't need all the players to be around for you to be able to give us your thoughts. Lastly, if you actually don't have any reads, then you're not really making any effort to get any.

[Wickedestjr]

I'm not impressed with ConfidAnon's post. Lots of fluff in it and he doesn't even vote.

Also, Mysterio could use some more votes.

[Flameaxe]

Robbnva replaces a2rudeboy, effective as soon as he posts here.

[ConfidAnon]

I'm not impressed with ConfidAnon's post. Lots of fluff in it and he doesn't even vote.

Also, Mysterio could use some more votes.

Your right, I didn't vote. I was in a rush to get the post out there, and I forgot to type this into the post:

Vote: danakillsu

She has a fair chance of being scum based on the play, and due to the village-idiot-ness of her play, she will get lynched at some point. It's better for that to be now than later, because we don't need a cluttered thread.

------

Please clarify "lots of fluff."

[Flameaxe]

Votecount 1.4

danakillsu [11] (Shanba, Prozac, Benmage, JDodge, Frank, Wraith, Mysterio, hiphop, nhammen, singersigner, ConfidAnon)

Frank [2] (danakillsu, Xite)
mysterio [2] (flinter, WickedestJr)
UltimaAvalon [1] (UA)
Benmage [1] (Reck)

Not Voting [7] (robbnva, seth, Johnny Rotten, Orochi, Sebguer, Bunnylover, Kise)

24 alive, 13 to lynch, 12 to no lynch.

[Wickedestjr]

By "lots of fluff", I meant that I felt a large part of the post was unhelpful. The first three sentences are you listing points you

don't

agree with. The sentence after that you point out something headdesk worthy. The only part of that post that is actually helpful is your points regarding Wraith and Danakillsu explaining why they may be connected. Speaking of which, you see a connection between the two based on Wraith's posts yet vote danakillsu. And you didn't even mention why you found danakillsu scummy in your first post.

FoS: ConfidAnon

[Wickedestjr]

Mod:

I believe I still have my vote on Mysterio.

Missed it, my bad.

[ConfidAnon]

By "lots of fluff", I meant that I felt a large part of the post was unhelpful. The first three sentences are you listing points you don't agree with. The sentence after that you point out something headdesk worthy. The only part of that post that is actually helpful is your points regarding Wraith and Danakillsu explaining why they may be connected. Speaking of which, you see a connection between the two based on Wraith's posts yet vote danakillsu. And you didn't even mention why you found danakillsu scummy in your first post. FoS: ConfidAnon

I found danakillsu scummy for the plethora of points mentioned by others. I didn't feel the need to mention them because I didn't want an unneccessarily long post. Walls which repeat thing clutter the thread. Probably should have put a statement like this in the original post, my apologies. Was rushing to get it out tehre.

[Mysterio]

I think it was pretty obvious that I voted for dana after he gave me that worthless reply. I asked him why he thought Frank's case was weak and why he thought Frank was scum. He was unable to answer either question, and simply repeated his claim that Frank was being contradictory even though he never bothered to actually point anything out specifically. I saw no reason to hold out my vote at that point.

[Wraith]

WARNING: L-2

I strongly suggest we take a look at the people defending or buddying dana before we lynch. If we do in fact mislynch I'm not confident there's enough material here to find scum Day 2.

[Wickedestjr]

Whatever. The vote still looks opportunistic and their is still a contradiction concerning the earlier points against danakillsu. I'll explain how you contradicted yourself:

Danakillsu made this post and this post. JDodge called danakillsu scum for those posts.

You vote for JDodge here for being so sure of himself.

Furcolow arrives and votes Danakillsu because of those posts that he wrote.

You arrive and say this:

@dana, what specifically has Frank done to make you think he is scum? So far, I've only gathered an OMGUS vote and you complaining that he might be making a weak case against you

(hint: it's not weak)

. These are not scum tells, that is simply you pissed off at the notion that someone wants you lynched.

Also, I still don't understand how anyone can be so sure of a read this early in the game. It could very well be possible that dana is just playing terribly, you can't know for sure. To act as if it's an open and shut case and we should lynch a few pages after the game started is ridiculous. Both JDodge and now Frank are guilty of this.

In the bolded portion of this post you say that Furcolow's case against Danakillsu wasn't weak. So, for some reason you found it strange for JDodge to be so certain that Danakillsu was scum based on those posts, yet you agreed with Furcolow's case which was also based on those two posts and didn't have a problem with him being so certain. There's the contradiction.

[Mysterio]

You should have kept reading, because Frank brings up the same exact point you've just made, which I responded to.

Post #186

Not at all. I said your case wasn't weak, not that dana is sure fire scum, which is what you've continuously implied in your posts. He is indeed the scummiest player so far, which is why I wanted to give him a chance to explain his weak scumhunting case against you.

There's a difference between acting as if we should just lynch and go home and simply acknowledging that a certain player is the scummiest so far. Hence why I didn't vote for dana until he had a chance to answer my questions.

[Xite91]

Xite, kid? you're fucking 19.

Lulz... and that makes a difference... how?

and if i'm your top suspect, we are obviously not reading the same game

Considering you just tried to use my age do discredit me? Nope, pretty sure we're reading the same game. Have a real defense?

I think that both Danakillsu and Furcolow are both town. Furcolow in particular, because I get the impression that he's trying to impress the town which is a strong town tell imo. The two main things that give me this impression are his bad metaphors + his confidence in his reads. Danakillsu also looks like town, because of his reaction to the attack from Furcolow. I agree that their posts are illogical, but I disagree that they are scum.

Throwing spaghetti much with all those IGMEOYs?
I can understand suspecting quite a few people, but the way you did it

without voting anyone

makes me think you're looking for a reaction

Flinter, stop trying to apologize for "insulting" people, it's embarrassing. If you're going to say something, be strong about what you say, timid people in this game annoy me.

1) Xite, please, when you are making a point, do it complete and correct. Show how the appeal to emotion is in anyway scummy, as we are human beings and emotions are good. I like emotions, as they can tell you who is town or scum.

2) "can't shake the feeling that JDodge is distancing" is a horrible argument. You have no reason to believe this (or you would have given it), but still you act on it. And I don't know what your experience is, but discussions like these are most often between two townies or one towny and one scum. I would gladly hear your reason why this case is between two scum, and if you don't have one, I would like you to pick which side of this argument (JDodge's or Dana's) you like best.

3) @ the rest. From this post, my doubts about this bandwagon get confirmed. It just is too easy. Dana OMGUS-votes twice, "lies" in one of his first posts, votes people for "contradictions" and argues with anybody who attacks him. If he is scum, he would be a maniac (sorry if you are actually scum), as in the first newby game everybody is told not to OMGUS-vote, and scum is more concious of such rules.

1) When I use AtE I mean it as in it's AtE in a scummy way. Hell, my saying hi to everyone could have been considered AtE, but it wasn't suspicious, it was that added with his other posts, which was why his other posts were there. I felt that didn't need explanation.
2) Lessee...

he calls Dana out for points, but doesn't vote right away

, also he uses terms like dim-witted against him and such and such, then when there's three other votes on dana he votes, then for the most part ignores him then... comes to his rescue that would be my point on why they're distancing.
You can ignore anything after the italicized, that was what you were looking for when you asked (I think). The rest is my reasoning why I still kept that feeling
3) I fuckin hate cases like this, did you ever assume that maybe just maybe things can be that easy? Are you a pessimist?

1) you just named all the notable posters and excluded Shanba because he posts as if he is your best friend?

2) The case sucks. So that must mean both the accused and the accuser are scum, right? Oh, and why would they bus? I see no motivations. Then, might there be a scenario where one of them is town, or where both of them are town? And would such a scenario be more likely then the scenario you proposed?

I think so. I'm sorry xite, but I think you are scum that just loves to apply pressure to both sides, while there isn't a good reason to do so.

3) The nonchalance is fake. Why did you do it? I guess to make your point (correct me if I'm wrong). You say there are tells in that post, but you don't point them out. I believe you didn't point them out because they weren't there and trying to brew tells out of that post would make your point seem weak.
4) First, you should love emotions, not hate them.

5) Second, the bolded part shows how you were searching the thread. If you were scumhunting, you could have seen that part as made by town and by scum, and it wouldn't have caught your eye. But if you were looking to make a case on Furcolow, in stead of hunting scum, that bolded part can easily be twisted into a scumslip.

6)

FoS Xite

1) He hasn't done anything notable yet, IMO. If he does, I'll let you know.
2) Really? Frank started at him like a rabid dog AFTER he had a ton of votes on him. That's why it seems like bussing. Of course, this could be him trying to get a townie lynched, but surely he would know that if Dana flipped town that he'd be the next lynch with the way he's attacking, right?
3) What do you mean, nonchalance? That was just me being me. And if you really need help understanding the textbook tells in that, fine I'll point them out.

Prozac, JDodge, and Furcolow make excellent cases against UA and dana especially. While I'm not totally sure about UA due to his playstyle, that last OMGUS vote sealed the deal for me against dana. However, I think we should prevent a hammer before we get enough discussion, and I'm putting it out there now that I will unvote to prevent L-1 if it comes too early for my tastes.

Vote: danakillsu

Mod, votecount please.

I'll also comment on hiphop's activity during the RVS, which I think was just a random wagon to garner reactions from anyone who jumped aboard. He can't have anything actually against me considering I've never played with him and this is my first post here.

First line, I applaud you good people! second sentence - I'll make a comment unrelated to the point I get at at the end of my sentence, then use an obvious Joke vote as what made me positive he's scum. Third sentence - Here's where towncreds happen, here's where I make it easy to change my perspective right before dana gets lynched, and now a vote.

Then he asks for a votecount. This may just be me, but in my experience when a person's first serious post asks for a votecount, they are usually scum.

And then guessing another gamer, not really anything to do with his tells, it's just interesting.

4) I don't hate emotions, I hate when they're used to manipulate people

5) Oh, was I really searching the thread? It couldn't have been that maybe while I was reading through I noticed scummy things? No not at all

6) Wait, didn't you just vote me in that same post somewhere? (Iunno where, I deleted it to save space)

Ohai, look how that wagon grew.
OMG! HI FRANK WANNA ATTACK DANA MOAR?>???!
That's right, he is bussing so frickin bad that I feel he should just admit it at this point.
seriously, how did no one else catch that?
By the way, I call it bussing because the case sucks and he's attacking so violently so that later he can go look at me guys, I caught scum, that means I'm town.
In case people can't think for themselves

My not-so-sure but still suspicious of them being scum list

Dana

You do realize that in order for quote one to be true, dana has to be scum. Yet for some odd reason you believe that dana is less likely to be scum then Frank. Why do you jump over dana?

Because, as I said, Frank could be just working

really

hard to get a townie lynched, as I only see newbscum doing this, I'm not sure if that's the case, but Frank does seem pretty newbish

@Wraith's last post;
1) Your plan to fool the town is not working, at least with me.
2) If dana is at L-2, maybe it's time for a claim?

[Wraith]

UA first.

1: blank
2: offtopic
3: self-vote RVS (meta: this is his playstyle)
4: comments on self-vote
5: anti-meta comments
6: believes dana could be VI flailing
7: believes scum are lurking
8: asks clarification from JDodge
9: offtopic
10: rebuttal to JDodge
11: rebuttal o JDodge
12: rebuttal to Furcolow
13: rebuttal to Furcolow (with some fair points)
14: attack on JDodge
15: offtopic
16: offtopic
17: comments to Reckoner
18: explanation of playstyle

After doing some actual in-depth reading I fail to see anything particularly scummy about UA. As he's said, his play so far is more for attacking JDodge and his arguments than defending dana. However, his single-minded focus on what is basically a "proxy defense" is not going to work in the long run. You need to start making some real contributions.

I do have a question for UA: What exactly is the "No True Scotsman" argument you refer to?

[Porochaz]

WARNING: L-2

I strongly suggest we take a look at the people defending or buddying dana before we lynch. If we do in fact mislynch I'm not confident there's enough material here to find scum Day 2.

You know we are big boys. Do we need a reminder of how many it takes to lynch? Seem's like your getting a little jumpy.

Also, does L-2 automatically mean lynch? Looks like your settled on the Dana lynch before we've even passed the 48 hour mark.

[Porochaz]

UA first.

1: blank
2: offtopic
3: self-vote RVS (meta: this is his playstyle)
4: comments on self-vote
5: anti-meta comments
6: believes dana could be VI flailing
7: believes scum are lurking
8: asks clarification from JDodge
9: offtopic
10: rebuttal to JDodge
11: rebuttal o JDodge
12: rebuttal to Furcolow
13: rebuttal to Furcolow (with some fair points)
14: attack on JDodge
15: offtopic
16: offtopic
17: comments to Reckoner
18: explanation of playstyle

After doing some actual in-depth reading I fail to see anything particularly scummy about UA. As he's said, his play so far is more for attacking JDodge and his arguments than defending dana. However, his single-minded focus on what is basically a "proxy defense" is not going to work in the long run. You need to start making some real contributions.

I do have a question for UA: What exactly is the "No True Scotsman" argument you refer to?

If a Scotsman wears underwear under his kilt, then he is not a true scotman. You've got to let the breeze flow through your giblets.

[xRECKONERx]

I really, really don't like hip-hop's post 55. Especially this line:

As long as you are town, I can help you win. Or is it you are scum?

It doesn't really sit well with me, and I can't figure out how to put it into words. Then again, Kise's response isn't really satisfactory, either:

You expect me to claim scum, really? Would you expect anyone to claim scum? That's about as useful as a mass-town claim.

IGMEOY Kise & hiphop

And... wow, I now see why the DKU wagon got started. Post 67 is just fucking awful on so many levels. Then he immediately backs off when he's put under pressure? This isn't just dana posting scummy, this is something entirely different, so my meta questions about dana that I asked Shanba are null at this point.

I... I... the more I read along, the more I see dana-scum. OMGUSing Shanba under the guise of voting Shanba for OMGUSing... wtf. Poro is town. Benmage needs rope, probably. JDodge is town...ish. Not as strong of a read as Poro or Shanba though.

UA is a mostly null read right now, though if dana flips scum I think that pretty much auto-clears UA. Dana's AtE is absolutely awful, too, in post 86.

I don't really get Mysterio's vote on JDodge in 91. He says he shouldn't be so sure of his reads this early on, but I tend to make quick reads really early and stick to them for the first day or so in order to get the ball rolling. I don't see how that's a scumtell.

IGMEOY Mysterio

.

Poro's post 107 is :goodposting:

I really really really really really really really reallyr eally really don't see how dana hasn't been quicklynched for his 115... LOL HEY GUYS STOP PRESSURING ME NOW, RVS IS OVER SO IM TAKIN' MY VOTE OFF. (AND THEN HE VOTES FURCOLOW WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT SHIT? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?)

Furcolow vs. dana is boring.

Confirm Vote: danakillsu

FoS's: Mysterio, Kise, hiphop

Nobody else did anything that stood out to me.
There. That's as good of a catchup as she's going to get.

[flinter]

@ flinter
It seems to me you're telling me not to make posts of my impressions or testosterone-fueled posts, or whatever, but your impression of what is backing my posts is making you ignore their actual content. I think I've done a good job of showing Furc to be scum, but you are refusing to deal with the actual meat of my case against him. And I find it hard to believe that you are advising me to take this game more seriously. The only post that wasn't serious was my first.

HoS: Hiphop

Do you really not care at all about this game?

I didn't find their actual content to be that great, so I didn't comment on them. And that first post started your bandwagon, right? I'm just trying to help you for your next game.

5) Oh, was I really searching the thread? It couldn't have been that maybe while I was reading through I noticed scummy things? No not at all

I wonder, did you ever hear about sarcasm being a standard scumtell? (esspecially when you are accused of something scummy?)

6) Wait, didn't you just vote me in that same post somewhere?

yes I did at the beginning. I forgot to delete it as a I read wicked's post and decided I liked a mysterio vote better.

WARNING: L-2

I strongly suggest we take a look at the people defending or buddying dana before we lynch. If we do in fact mislynch I'm not confident there's enough material here to find scum Day 2.

Wraith, would you be so kind to start the investigation on a few other players, so that we will have enough "material"?

Because this was just an empty post.

[Xite91]

5) Oh, was I really searching the thread? It couldn't have been that maybe while I was reading through I noticed scummy things? No not at all

I wonder, did you ever hear about sarcasm being a standard scumtell? (esspecially when you are accused of something scummy?)

6) Wait, didn't you just vote me in that same post somewhere?

yes I did at the beginning. I forgot to delete it as a I read wicked's post and decided I liked a mysterio vote better.

WARNING: L-2

I strongly suggest we take a look at the people defending or buddying dana before we lynch. If we do in fact mislynch I'm not confident there's enough material here to find scum Day 2.

Wraith, would you be so kind to start the investigation on a few other players, so that we will have enough "material"?

Because this was just an empty post.

5) Try and use it as a scumtell against me. I dare you.
6) Alright, not scummy ATM but it is at least noted.

Also, read post 242

[Wickedestjr]

@Mysterio - Okay. Makes sense.

Unvote.

1: Throwing spaghetti much with all those IGMEOYs?
2: I can understand suspecting quite a few people, but the way you did it without voting anyone makes me think you're looking for a reaction

1: Umm...what?
2: First of all, I have voted. I voted Mysterio. Second of all, is there a problem with me looking for reactions? What is the point of this statement?

Xite, do you think flinter's attack against you is suspicious?

Confirm Vote: danakillsu

You were already voting danakillsu. He is now at L-1.

Dana is now at L-1.

flinter's beginning to raise my suspicions. First the bad points against Xite and now he has completely ignored Mysterio's defense of my point against him. It's like either he wants to sit back and watch me decide the next move or he isn't paying attention to the person he's voting for.

I'm looking for a place to switch my vote to.

[UltimaAvalon]

After doing some actual in-depth reading I fail to see anything particularly scummy about UA. As he's said, his play so far is more for attacking JDodge and his arguments than defending dana. However, his single-minded focus on what is basically a "proxy defense" is not going to work in the long run. You need to start making some real contributions.

I do have a question for UA: What exactly is the "No True Scotsman" argument you refer to?

I'll contribute later tonight, when I'm not so entrenched in whatever game I happen to be playing atm.

To answer your question, Here's a link to the wiki

The "No True Scotsman" argument that both JDodge and I mentioned was Dana saying "No one as experienced as I would really think UA was scum for self-voting" or something to that effect.