Mini 1029: Boondox Mafia (GAME OVER!!!! )

[Scott Brosius]

/confirm

[Scott Brosius]

see signature

[Scott Brosius]

Vote:Skill006

You are the only one with numbers in your name, huge scumtell.

[Scott Brosius]

Huh... el simo is at L-3 already.

And?

Unvote
Vote: KageLord

[Scott Brosius]

Simo has 3 votes on him (if my count is correct). Why are you being so careful only putting an FoS on him?

[Scott Brosius]

But I'll

vote: el simo

instead, because he doesn't seem to want to take any sort of stance, and he hasn't really voted anyone yet (sorry, wouldn't call an 'everyone else vote' a vote XD).

I think I have taken a stance and I think you quoted it in that post. I just don't think anything is worth my vote yet.

As for my bandwagon, I think it is highly likely that we will find scum in it. I think it would be very easy for something to happen where someone might have thrown the hammer, poor Skill here just thought he did when he didn't, which shows just how easy it is to get the votes confused. I think had I been lynched chances are it would've been an accident and scum (who were on the wagon) would have come out the next day to push a mislynch on who ever hammered.

There is no way to prove this, how ever, but I think it is the likely situation. I don't see 6 townies wanting to put someone at L-1 in RVS.

Yeah, but if you take any random group of 6 people, we are likely to find scum in it. Until we get flips, selectively scum-hunting is not helpful. We should only be looking for the scummiest player, not the scummiest because there were on a wagon on page 3.

@Kage- Not funny. I like your post though. I'm taking you and cloudocean of my scumlist and adding mongoose.

One of Mysterio & mongoose are scum, maybe both.

unvote, Vote:Mysterio

I don't think I've ever been accused of trying to hard to look townie.

You make this post a few after mongoose votes you. Seems like a hidden form of OMGUS where you vote someone else, but still call the player who voted you scummy.

[Scott Brosius]

Also it may be unsafe to assume someone on the bandwagon against el_simo is mafia. I don't think mafia would have joined a bandwagon so early on and may even try and lead us down the wrong path to focus on the bandwagon list while they are actually getting people to lynch the wrong ones.
But then again mafia could be stupid. I tend to think mafia are very intelligent, so I may be giving them too much credit.

All of this is WIFOM and distracting. Also the thought that "mafia are intelligent" needs to be thrown out the window. I have seen an increasing use of the "too scummy to be scum" defense for scummy players. Very few people are expert at this game, and people make mistakes.

I'm keeping my vote where it is, but watching Bunny and Raiv.

[Scott Brosius]

Totally agree with this. But...why do you find bunnylover suspicious again?

Lack of content and WIFOM

Mysterio: Ok. Here's the deal. Hopefully this will save us from polluting the thread with unnecessary discussion.

I'm a vigilante. You produce scum today and I might not shoot u tonight.

Deal?

Yet another bad move.

Here's what I foresee happening. Scum will let you live so that you can follow through on your threat to kill me, that gives them an extra townie night kill. The next day you either get lynched for it, or you don't and they just night kill you. Either way, your claim and threat here will only succeed in getting two townie's killed. If you get lynched, then you will be responsible for two townie deaths without scum having to waste a single night kill.

100% anti-town move here. More votes on don, please.

Anti-town yes. Scummy no. We are not lynching a claimed PR on D1, especially one that claimed with no pressure to claim. The fact that you are still pushing his lynch is scummy.

Unvote
Vote: Mysterio

[Scott Brosius]

Skill- what the others said, you misinterpreted what I called WIFOM.

How do we know he is really a vig and not a serial killer? It would be easy to for a SK to claim vig.

We don't but it's not something to address today. Plus even if he is SK, we can use that to our advantage for the time being.

Well, unless someone is going to counter claim don, i guess we kinda have to believe him. I'm not so sure about the case, but we kinda have to trust him. The question is, what if mysterio isnt Scum. Does that mean don is telling the truth, or does it mean he is a liar and should be killed the next day. I still wanna think this through, since this is probably the ideal way for a serial killer to mole a village. However, in another game I played in on another forum, I was vig and was forced to claim, and basically was used as a second lynch. Until the doc died and I dies the next night. I'm holding my vote for now.

To me it's null. If mysterio flips town, that tells us nothing about DJ. If mysterio flips scum, then there is a much better chance that DJ is town although we cannot rule out the SK possibility.

[Scott Brosius]

Thats the thanks I get for unvoting you, Mysterio?

I had second thoughts about your lynch and I think Skill is scummier.

unvote, Vote: Mysterio

Second thoughts have been quelled pretty quickly I guess?

DJ- It's up to you, I wouldn't announce your plans though in order to keep scum in the dark.

[Scott Brosius]

The fact that you wanted to lynch a claimed vig without a counter-claim paired with the OMGUS of don, then your convenient vanishing when the pressure on your was amped up.

[Scott Brosius]

why do you think i killed rai?

Well both kills were suggested by town, Rai and an inactive guy (who I've never heard of, did he even post?).

You talking about Jase? Yeah, he posted. And he was already one of my town reads. On the other hand though, Rai was a scum read, so...

You never mentioned Jase at all D1. Do you have other reads you are not revealing?

Mongoose and Bunny need to participate more.

[Scott Brosius]

Handing out scum/town lists is never a good idea for town. Don who did you kill and why?

I can maybe understand town lists to muddle scum NKs. Not making scum lists though?

[Scott Brosius]

I think speculating on all of that proves futile. We should still be searching for the scummiest character and attempts to WIFOM it up when we are in the dark about setup are just distracting.

We need some more discussion though. cloudocean's recent posts don't sit well with me and Bunny/mongoose have still not provided any content.

[Scott Brosius]

Excellent, Bunny and mongoose magically reappear when a vote is placed/attacks are made on them. So I guess you guys are definitely watching the thread.

Vote: Bunnylover

[Scott Brosius]

Don if we lynch town today, do you think it's better that you don't shoot? On one hand, picking scum will be easier just by simple probability. On the other, another town kill could prove impossible to overcome D3 if there even would be a D3.

[Scott Brosius]

I would rather lynch someone today than no lynch and leave it up to Don.

[Scott Brosius]

Kage, bunny, mongoose weigh in on the Don shooting at night discussion.

I don't want to hear whining about there not being anything to discuss.

Skill: Why vote mongoose over bunny then?

[Scott Brosius]

Here it is again. I cant g on the computer in the morning, and in the 12~ hours I dont posts I am suspicious again. I'm not sure what we are trying to get out of the bunnylover wagon since just because somone doesnt post it doesnt mean they are scum. That being said, I would be suprised if he flips scum anyways. Don, your logic for el_simo is stupid. Anyone could have been randed first. the fact that he was lynched (almost) first instead of me or you makes him scum? that makes no sense

You have always been suspicious. It didn't start because you didn't post in 12 hours.

Who do you think is scum then if not bunny?

[Scott Brosius]

No mini normal I've played has had 2 scum groups. Anyone have a different experience?

[Scott Brosius]

So don didn't shoot, so we either have an SK or two scum groups, and neither decided to target the Vig?? I'd understand if scum wanted the vig shooting but the SK would be the first person to want him dead. I'm starting to grow very suspicious of dons claim.

Well aren't SKs sometimes/usually NK immune? No need to worry about a vig in SK's shoes given that power. I am also getting weary of don's claim given the apparently lack of night action from him.

[Scott Brosius]

Some how, I just cant bellieve that. Why would any killer target Raivann, who would probably have been vigged, and otherwise be lynched? I see no point in a scum group killing someone like that

Well it's in SK's interest to control the balance of town/scum to survive. Raivann makes sense as an SK kill. However, it makes sense as a vig kill as well. My guess is if don didn't shoot we have a SK on our hands . We probably would have had a vig counter-claim if don was fake-claiming and there was a real vig. Raivann really doesn't make sense for the scum kill given he was the other leading wagon D1.

Granted this is a huge load of assumptions and also assuming a semi-competent SK even exists in this game.

[Scott Brosius]

The 4 people who are currently not voting Kage, Fake, bunny, monogoose have not even placed a vote on anyone today. Why?

Also don unvoted and voted KageLord

[Scott Brosius]

Vote: Bunnylover

This is bad. KageLord's response to my request was thought out and seems town. You haven't even mentioned Bunny (or really anything) all day and you conveniently drop the L-1 vote?

Kage: It's possible they are just poor town players, who do you suggest is a better vote for today if not the lurkers?

Unvote
Vote: FakeGod

[Scott Brosius]

Skill. Fakegod. El Simo.
U heard it here first.

unvote, vote fakegod

And your 100% on KageLord went.....?

[Scott Brosius]

Why didn't you hammer bunny then if vanilla is always a suspicious role?

[Scott Brosius]

I never said it was suspicious for a VT to be in the game, I just said that for the mafia, you are most likely to claim VT over anything else, and as such it should be taken with a grain of salt. Also, my playing has been accused of scummy, though in the only other mafia game I have played in here (Smash bros), I have acted this way too, and just got lynched for it. Also, FG, how could I know you are going to flip VT. THe absolute best I COULD know,

if

I was mafia, is that you were town, nothing more.

Holy WIFOM where do I start. It doesn't matter how you act in other games (also shouldn't reference that game if it is still going on). That game has no bearing on this game. Also if you are mafia and FG is not also mafia, you pretty much know he's going to flip VT. What else will he flip? Town PR? Why couldn't he be SK?

Everyone needs to stop being so scummy. Bunny just because your wagon derailed doesn't excuse you from participating.

[Scott Brosius]

FG who do you think is scum. The only vote you have placed today lasted about 20 minutes on Bunny, and you haven't provided reads on anyone else really. Also applies to Bunny and mongoose who haven't voted today either.

[Scott Brosius]

341 he's at L-1, mongoose votes him in 357 the only vote since the 341 VC.

dj- I would shoot Bunny if FG flips scum. I doubt Mongoose places the hammer on his scumbuddy. I believe elsimos claim.

If FG flips town, I would hold off.

[Scott Brosius]

You have a partner as a vig? What?

I think we need to mass-claim.

[Scott Brosius]

in any case, i hope we have a cop, because it is clear that i have been blocked both nights. meaning if we have a cop he has been allowed to investigate unfettered. with me and my mason partner confirmed, cop should be able to add a couple innocents or possibly a guilty to the known information.

simo, who did you protect night one?

mass claim is okay, but we need to talk first. brosius, you've been townie to the core, why do you think you are still alive?

You were blocked both nights? But I thought you were only even-night vig?

I have no idea why I am alive.

[Scott Brosius]

I fail to see how it's a cop out. I'm not in the minds of the scum, so I cannot answer that question.

I believe simo's claim. I believe DJs claim, DJ has a mason partner. I am not scum. This leaves 3 players. Assuming a 3 person scum team, the remaining would be scum.

The best bet today is to lynch bunny. He has been scummy all game, and surviving the NK is troubling. That means there is some sort of RB or Bunny is NK immune.

[Scott Brosius]

As I have stated, I believe simos claim

I think the scum team is Bunnylover, mongoose, and Skill (in decreasing order of scumminess).

[Scott Brosius]

You realize that if.. I'm the doc, don is the even vig, his partner (I'm assuming Scott) is the other vig, and skill is the jailbreaker, we only have 3 players left? That's three scum.

Good point there. So that means at least one of you is lying. Scum JK isn't a surprising role and given the suspicions already on Skill, I would probably consider that the most likely lie. And as I said before, after that it would be your doc claim.

And I don't really follow the SK means JK logic. I haven't been in a game with both of those yet, even though I have been in one with SK and one with JK. Obviously I have limited experience, so if it is in fact the norm to have both of those together, please correct me.

I have seen JK and SK together. It really doesn't have a bearing on this game/potential setup either way.

[Scott Brosius]

VT

And Kage is left.

[Scott Brosius]

I find it hard to believe that BOTH simo and skill are scum. One of them has to be lying given the assumption of mason vigs being legit, but both means that the only PRs are the mason vigs which seems unbalanced (but entirely possible).

So my team at the moment is Bunny, KageLord, simo/Skill. I need to reread to get a better idea of the last one.

I still think Bunny is our lynch today.

[Scott Brosius]

Let's do it.

Vote: bunnylover

[Scott Brosius]

Mongoose is 100% confirmed given the whole "1 of the twins is dead" flavor in the kill. I still think that it's unlikely simo and skill are scum together. So by default that leaves KageLord and one of simo/skill. I am weary of both of their claims, and of their discussion today. Simo's confusion about odd/even days and his protection do not seem genuine. But this is outweighed by the survival of the NK by Skill.

Vote: Skill006

[Scott Brosius]

Huh... somewhat unexpected. So it's Scott/simo then? Or possibly still Scott/Skill with a dangerous gambit.

Real Claim: Town Tracker

The reason why I lied about my claim will become apparent soon enough. Night 1, I tracked Raivann because of his scummy behavior. He didn't go anywhere. We know why now (he died that night and flipped VT). Night 2, and I still feel like a dumb*ss for this, I got confused and thought I actually was a VT in this game. It wasn't until D3 started that I remembered I was the tracker in this game. So, Night 2 went to waste and I still had no information for town whatsoever. Then, mass claim time, if I claimed tracker, there would be decent odds that I would be killed or blocked. So, I claimed VT and hoped for results that night. Night 3, I tracked Scott. He claimed VT as well, but I figured he was lying.

I was right. Last night, Scott targeted don and mongoose. I don't know why there are two targets, but one is dead. Redirector would be a decent guess, I think. Scum could have blocked someone (probably skill/el simo, whichever isn't scum) and redirected mongoose to don. Any other ideas are welcome. Anyway, that's about it. Either Scott proffers a very good explanation for all of this, or he's scum.

For now, mongoose, I think you should take your vote off of Skill. Just in case. You can put it back on after Scott's had a chance to explain, if you want.

The only explanation is that you are lying. Let's see how many holes are in this claim.

1. The tracking results are terrific. Tracked the NK1 VT. A very easy fake-claim as nobody will dispute it and it obviously went nowhere. "Forgot" he was tracker D2. Convenient results on me D3 after prodding everyone for who they targeted. Convenient timing.

2. Lying about the claim in the first place. The reason I was suspecting you was because of process of elimination and it seemed we had too many VTs.

3. As simo said, there were no better odds of you being blocked than any other PR. Again very convenient timing for this.

4. It's really easy to say things like this as scum as your flip as tracker will never happen. I do enjoy the quotes about your "real claim" though. Slip much?

Either town just lost to Bunny/mongoose/Scott, or we just got rid of the second scum.

If it's the latter and I end up dead, you know my testimony in my "real claim" post is true.

[Scott Brosius]

Yep, your vote is the decider. And Scott targeted el simo last night. But I'm sure you already knew that I would say that.

I really hope the answer to your question is yes (or if vig takes precedence, that would be even better). That would make things a heck of a lot easier for town here.

I'm not sure why that is even important. The game is in mongoose's hands. We are clearly going to vote each other and he casts the deciding vote. If I get lynched, half of the remaining players will be scum, which is usually the win condition for scum regardless of the killing power of the remaining town player. Unless mongoose wants to no-lynch? But that is not a good idea.

[Scott Brosius]

Relationships with flipped scum.

Bunny is playing weak and a bit scummy (mostly because of the weakness, as pointed out earlier), but not enough to make me shift my vote.

Standard scum distancing, mentioning him as scummy, not enough for vote.

Why the L-1 vote, FakeGod?

I was just waiting to see how that whole thing with don turned out first. There didn't seem much point in me voting someone else in the middle of that back-and-forth. Now though, I'm not quite sure that the leading wagons are appropriate. Sure Bunny and mongoose have been mostly inactive (and mongoose's voting someone on his 3rd post and sticking with it throughout the day without reinforcing it or trying to convince others doesn't help), but isn't it just as likely that they're just not playing good town? I'm just a bit wary of voting someone for reasons like that given that we probably have an SK (or a lying vig), meaning 2 possible town deaths a night. Lylo might be coming very soon (maybe as early as tomorrow), so I just want to have a very good reason when I vote right now. If Bunny and mongoose aren't scum, this is just looking ideal for scum (easy mislynches coming and possible help at night from SK or vig).

So cloud, why is your vote on Bunny again?

More soft defense of Bunny

My scum team guess (descending order of scumminess):

mongoose
Skill006
Bunnylover

First time we have acknowledgment of Skill, but still both are not his top scum suspect.

My new scumteam guess:

Skill006
el simo
Scott

This is probably a scummy looking scumteam (meaning I look scummy for suggesting Scott and el simo), but I think it is the most likely right now. I would put Bunny in there for one of them except for his honesty in his list. I don't think simple scum would do something like putting themselves second last in their own list. Really that's all I'm basing my current read on him on, so feel free to disagree.

Goes back to defending Bunny for a pretty weak reason (his honesty). Skill still on the list however there is little wiggle room at this point.

Refuses to hammer Bunny, but does hammer Skill.

So we have a lot of defending Bunny, and ignoring Skill until mass-claim and it is necessary to address all players. Both of these relationships seem scummy and problematic to me.

Tracker claim

I have addressed problems with his claim earlier. There are 2 big ones that stand out for me however.

1. All of his results are easily made up. N1 Raivann was VT and obviously tracked nowhere. N2 he "forgot" his role N3 he "tracked" me to DJ and mongoose (covered in point 2). N4 "tracked" me to el simo.

Okay, before anything else, I think we should do the reveal of who everyone targeted. el simo and Skill, that would be you two. mongoose is essentially cleared, I think.

After those two claim their N3 actions, I would be most interested to know Scott's thoughts at this point.

This is his first point after the end of N3 asking for targets to be revealed. Mongoose reveals that he was role blocked. Only after getting this information, Kage claims that he "tracked" me to the NK of DJ and mongoose. So all of his claimed information can easily be made up from the thread. Raivann flips VT, is an easy fake tracker. He doesn't even make one up N2. Once he gets the information on who targeted who, puts the blame on me. And obviously "tracks" me to simo N4 also easily surmised from the thread.

2. He has 2 "results" for me N3, yet only 1 for me N4.

I think Kage pegged me as Mafia RB and figured 2 results would really sell me as scum. Given that 2 results were easily fakeable with the death of DJ and after mongoose announced he was RBed, this was a believable track. But Skill flips Mafia RB and this assumption falls apart. So he "tracks" me to 2 people N3, but only 1 person N4?

Vote: KageLord

[Scott Brosius]

Thanks all. Fun game. I was roleblocker as well obviously. I guess we should have inferred something was up when we had 2 RBs. I said some of this in our QT, we faced 2 problems this game, constantly NKing VTs and mongoose getting confirmed. He was prime for a D3 mislynch.

I figured simo might think about it more and come to the right decision, plus it was just easier for me to set it up as me v.s. kagelord and leave it up to mongoose. I have played 15 straight games as town, nice to finally be scum. Honestly, I was putting myself up for lynch D4. I figured with the one vote on Skill, if nobody else voted her, it would confirm her as scum. So I jumped on expecting there to be an unvote, and a wagon on me for attempting to quick-lynch. I really did not intend for Skill to be lynched.

Modding was good except for DJ's death scene where you said one of the twins was dead, basically confirming mongoose and that there wasn't something crazy like 3 masons. It didn't really matter though.

Posting QT is fine.

[Scott Brosius]

With 2 roleblockers, we figured we could let you live and just RB you. We never really considered killing you.

[Scott Brosius]

The mason vig is something I haven't seen before. I think it was balanced though. Could even switch out a RB for a GF type role who is immune to NKs and I think the balance would still be good.