NY 118 - BBM's Large Normal Mafia (Game!)


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Post Post #375 (ISO) » Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:40 pm

Post by Porochaz »

Wraith wrote:*confusing self with thought*

I need to take a break. I'm obviously doing things too fast (ie my ISOs, which are definitely not as good as some in my previous games).
Where is my sarcasm button? [sarcasm]Yeeeaah... your iso's are hoing waaaaaay tooo fast, and there soooo very interesting...[/sarcasm]

Seriously, there is no point to them and they don't help. Your just another player who is trying to show an illusion of activity but by the time you get round to another player, it's too late. Besides your at the start of a game. Do you realise how useless they are?
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Post Post #376 (ISO) » Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:51 pm

Post by Bunnylover »

Furcolow wrote:he has no chance of using his role whatsoever
if he doesnt die, and there's no protection, he's scum
if he actually is a cop, they will stack their kills on him
therefore, if he is a cop, he won't ever be able to investigate at all, as he's going to die
by lynching him, we are protecting our other power roles from being lynched

and yes, i can lynch a claimed cop day 1 if he is lying
i believe he is lying
i can lynch danakillsu on day 1
Wouldn't it be better if we let the mafia lynch him?
I mean at least we won't waste our town vote on him, and the mafia would have to use their night kill on him.
Isn't that better for us, to make the mafia lynch someone who we are iffy about?
Also by lynching him, we give the chance for mafia to kill another of our power role.
How can you say we are protecting them?
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Town wins : 13
Scum wins : 3
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Scum loses : 2

I do not attack the player of a post, but the post itself. I would appreciate it if you do the same.
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Post Post #377 (ISO) » Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:55 pm

Post by Xite91 »

Okay!
Time for some mafia theory/other stuff.

If you find something to be off, please correct me on it, this is just based off of my experience (and mostly based off of RL game theory)

This game has 24 players

That means in order for there to be balance there should be somewhere between 5 and 7 scum. (I'm
assuming
hoping that there's not SK's or third parties and that this game is balanced)

If there were 5 scum I could guess that there are either 2 teams, one with 2 and one with 3 scum or 1 team with all 5.
If there is a group of 2 and 3 I would assume that they both have kills (in order to progress the game a bit faster/ give the scum a bit more of a chance) Also, the group of 3 would have a roleblocker.
Out of the 19 players, there would probably only be between 5 and 8 PR's, because of the theory that less can often be more because town can oftentimes cause themselves problems by multiple PRs targeting the same target.
In a basic setup I could see 2 cops, 2 doc, and 1 vig. If there are more, I can see a group of 3 masons (confirmed or unconfirmed, but more than likely all town) and/or 1 town RBer

If they are all 5 scum together, then I can see 2 NK abilities, one RBer and possibly (if there are masons) 1 scum in a mason group

If there was a group of 6, it would be 3 and 3 and the only difference to 2 and 3 I would see is if there were masons, then one would be scum and he would be in the group without the RBer

If there is a group of 7, they are probably 1 full group with 2 NK abilities, 1-2 RBers, and possible ready-given fake claims (as a group of 7 would be easier to catch because they all know of each other)
With this as the case, I see almost no chance of masons, and instead and extra cop, and at least 1 town RBer

So, in any of these scenarios, there should be no more than 3 NK's per night.

Note: I doubt that there are masons, but the possibility is there.
I also doubt two teams of 2 and 3 because scum CAN cross-kill, making it highly unbalanced, at least for the team of 2.

Okay, so now that that is all said, cops should not counter claim because there are probably as few as 2 and as great as 3 cops in this game.
There is almost definitely at least 2 protective roles, but I feel that Dana should not be protected tonight as for a WIFOM case stated here:
If dana is scum, it will become more apparent
If he is not, scum will either
A leave him and try to get us to lynch him
B NK him
If he is left alone (either because he's scum or town) we should wait to lynch him until about D3 or 4 when we can be positive he is scum, or a cop can investigate him and breadcrumb but not claim his read on him until at least D3 or 4. If you get lynched/NK'd then we can look back and find your crumbs as we will know then that you are a cop.
If he is NK'd then scum helped themselves a bit, but not by much because as I said, there are probably 2 cops.

Frank and Wraith are almost definitely scum together, but I will have to wait and see if there are 1 or 2 scumgroups (After a 3rd or 4th scum flip, or until I see where the NK's go, and how many there are.) but I am willing to bet that it is a single scumgroup of 7.

Okay, now I shouldn't be posting much more theory in this game until at least D2, but probably until D4, depending on the chain of events.
Now back to the game.
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Post Post #378 (ISO) » Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:58 pm

Post by Xite91 »

Furcolow wrote:xite, stop the ad hom right now
vote: xite
Still too lazy to check what ad hom means...
Wraith wrote:*confusing self with thought*

I need to take a break. I'm obviously doing things too fast (ie my ISOs, which are definitely not as good as some in my previous games).

@Xite: If I was scum with Furcolow, I would not be doing this much defending. I just think he's a bad D1 lynch. Personally I think he should vigkilled during a later night because he draws so much damn fire from everyone. It'll be very easy for the scum to manipulate the town into lynching him. I'm assuming Furcolow is town because he's too easy to lynch. If he was scum he wouldn't attract this much attention to himself. Therefore, I believe at least one or two scum are part of the "lynch Furcolow" mob.
I'm pretty sure I said something about hating "it's too easy" cases.
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Post Post #379 (ISO) » Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:24 pm

Post by UltimaAvalon »

Frank wrote:I'm a better candidate because you're scum seeking a mislynch, porochaz
Since dana will surely not be lynched because people are gullible
unvote

I'm going to
vote porochaz
for being suspicious of someone I know is town (myself!)
You're not listening. Very few of us actually believe his claim. In spite of this,
It is in Town's best interest that he makes it to Night 1, for information purposes
. If he's lynched, all we get is his role (which might be cop(but probably isn't))

That said, you're still a rambling, ranting, raving, anti-town lunatic, and probably scum.
Unvote
Vote: Frank
AlyG: If he's not a joke account then what is he? He starts bandwagons on himself and insults other people.
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Post Post #380 (ISO) » Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:26 pm

Post by UltimaAvalon »

AlyG: If he's not a joke account then what is he? He starts bandwagons on himself and insults other people.
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Post Post #381 (ISO) » Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:34 pm

Post by Xite91 »

Thanks UA!
But still, it was because I was too lazy to look at the wiki even :P
But yeah, Frank, I have more than just "you're and idiot" To go off of, and have even pointed these out, so yeah.
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Post Post #382 (ISO) » Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:38 pm

Post by Porochaz »

@Xite, Outguessing the mod is not a hugely useful. It brings up a whole load of wifom that isn't fun to sift through and in the end gets us nowhere. A 7 man scum group would be excessive, a 6 man one would be as well although 3 - 3 I could see. However thats beside the point. Your knowledge of roles is quite limited as well, I don't know whether that was for the purposes of argument or whatever but generally a good place to start is MBF's flash thingie or http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... zoraster_2. You will find a larger variation in roles than cop/doc/vig/rber.
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Post Post #383 (ISO) » Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:41 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

What's the case on Frank?
Seriously this game is going at like 20 pages a second.
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Post Post #384 (ISO) » Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:46 pm

Post by UltimaAvalon »

UltimaAvalon wrote:You could try to actually do your job as a Mafia player and READ DAMMIT
AlyG: If he's not a joke account then what is he? He starts bandwagons on himself and insults other people.
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Post Post #385 (ISO) » Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:46 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

That'd be easier if this game wasn't going 10000 miles an hour.
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Post Post #386 (ISO) » Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:50 pm

Post by singersigner »

Furcolow wrote:Another person I would be up for lynching could possibly be Xite. I am not going to vote him, as I think he's voting me, and I don't want to OMGUS, but I'm definitely going to FoS: Xite
It's not OMGUS if you have a legitimate reason to vote for that person (
Duh
). This was a just so wrong on so many levels.
Furcolow wrote:Also, on the votes coming onto me, whatever. I know I'm town, and I've been attempting to post better. All you all by voting me is going to increase my spam/one liners and decrease my ability to scumhunt and be offensive because you'll be putting me on the defensive.
1. That's a nice AtE there. Care to continue?
2. Your ability to scumhunt is not at all defined by the rest of us. You can choose to stop defending yourself anytime and find even just
one
person scummier than you.
Then
we'll see what happens with you. Until then,
3. Haven't you ever heard that "the best offense is a good defense"? From what I can tell, your defense SUCKS.


VOTE: Furcolow
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Post Post #387 (ISO) » Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:50 pm

Post by Xite91 »

Porochaz wrote:@Xite, Outguessing the mod is not a hugely useful. It brings up a whole load of wifom that isn't fun to sift through and in the end gets us nowhere. A 7 man scum group would be excessive, a 6 man one would be as well although 3 - 3 I could see. However thats beside the point. Your knowledge of roles is quite limited as well, I don't know whether that was for the purposes of argument or whatever but generally a good place to start is MBF's flash thingie or http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... zoraster_2. You will find a larger variation in roles than cop/doc/vig/rber.
Considering this is a normal game, I expected very basic roles, also 6 or 7 is mathematically sound according to statistical analysis (Again, this is based on discussions IRL, and RL games so I guess it could be different online?)
xRECKONERx wrote:That'd be easier if this game wasn't going 10000 miles an hour.
The game just started, it will slow down soon, but for now just try your best to keep up. And if you want a case on Frank, then just give him a look in ISO
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Post Post #388 (ISO) » Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:51 pm

Post by Xite91 »

EBWOP
Holy shit, singer gave some new ideas
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Post Post #389 (ISO) » Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:57 pm

Post by ConfidAnon »

I don't think Furcolow is scum. The insistance of danakillsu being scum in light of the Cop claim seems like a frustrated townie wondering why we are all treating the claim as a lynch preventer. That being said, the AtE is horrible.

Unvote, Vote: Wraith


The iso's are verging on information over analysis. Yes, he does give conclusions to the iso's. However, his analysis portion of it sets himself up nicely to take either side of an argument.

Wraith RE: UltimaAvalon
Wraith wrote:After doing some actual in-depth reading I fail to see anything particularly scummy about UA. As he's said, his play so far is more for attacking JDodge and his arguments than defending dana. However, his single-minded focus on what is basically a "proxy defense" is not going to work in the long run. You need to start making some real contributions.
Wraith RE: hiphop
Wraith wrote:Hiphop is either blatant scum trying to slip under the radar or really dumb town who won't contribute until Day 2. His single-minded crusade for a bandwagon of some kind is unsettling.
Wraith RE: Furcolow
Wraith wrote:Furc's been single-mindedly focused on dana and UA pretty much the entire game, and almost all of his posts are attacks on them or restatements of his attacks. However, his cases against dana were far better than dana's cases against him. I want to see how he reacts to the cop claim and bandwagon falling apart.
Aside from that, there are a few other things that bother me as well.

It rubs me the wrong way that he unvoted because of the claim by danakillsu, but is applying constant pressure to said claim still. It seems like preparing himself to jump right back on the wagon if it forms up again.
Wraith wrote:Also, just because I believe the claim for now doesn'tmean my suspicions are dropped. That was some of the worst play as a cop I've seen. IGMEOY dana
Wraith wrote:Don't like that vote by dana, makes me believe the cop claim a little less.
Finally, we have this gem:
Wraith wrote:@Xite: If I was scum with Furcolow, I would not be doing this much defending. I just think he's a bad D1 lynch. Personally I think he should vigkilled during a later night because he draws so much damn fire from everyone. It'll be very easy for the scum to manipulate the town into lynching him. I'm assuming Furcolow is town because he's too easy to lynch. If he was scum he wouldn't attract this much attention to himself. Therefore, I believe at least one or two scum are part of the "lynch Furcolow" mob.
First sentence is pure wifom. So is the second to last sentence. Additionally, he assumes that Furcolow is Town because he seems easy to lynch . . . but I didn't see any arguments from him like that when everyone was ready to hang danakillsu.

So yea, I think he's got a good shot at being scum.

Preview Edit: I agree with reck, this game is going EXTREMELY fast. At this rate, we'll have 44 pages in a week if the day hasn't ended and we keep going at this rate.
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Post Post #390 (ISO) » Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:51 pm

Post by Porochaz »

Xite91 wrote:
Porochaz wrote:@Xite, Outguessing the mod is not a hugely useful. It brings up a whole load of wifom that isn't fun to sift through and in the end gets us nowhere. A 7 man scum group would be excessive, a 6 man one would be as well although 3 - 3 I could see. However thats beside the point. Your knowledge of roles is quite limited as well, I don't know whether that was for the purposes of argument or whatever but generally a good place to start is MBF's flash thingie or http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... zoraster_2. You will find a larger variation in roles than cop/doc/vig/rber.
Considering this is a normal game, I expected very basic roles, also 6 or 7 is mathematically sound according to statistical analysis (Again, this is based on discussions IRL, and RL games so I guess it could be different online?)
You will notice that those are proposed roles for normal games. From my knowledge of BBM, he'll more than likely be fairly adventurous, and doc/cop can be a broken mechanic. I wouldn't base your thoughts on the game from experiences IRL, apparently not very similar. Reck went to a scummers meet, recently, he could probably agree/disagree with me on that issue. In any case as I said before, whilst I do enjoy getting a bit into this, its almost always a mistake too. Anything about the setup we guess would only be just that, and its not a good road to go down.
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Post Post #391 (ISO) » Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:02 pm

Post by Wraith »

I have to think a bit. If I can get some attacks and defenses going off around me, I might be able to make a good D1 lynch, so you can get some reads when I flip. Stay tuned, I'm gonna do some scumhunting tomorrow when I get home in the evening.
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Post Post #392 (ISO) » Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:06 pm

Post by Porochaz »

There are already attacks going off around you, whilst I appreciate the effort of actually playing the game, which is actually turning into a novelty...

Wait, are you about to do the lynch me now gambit I've seen you do before? Because it's a really sucky move, it would only be your opinions only and your interactions, and if your town you are distracting us from a scum lynch. Put it this way, if we were rolling a d24 dice, and lynched the corresponding number that would be between 4/5% of catching scum. If you are town and you are looking for us to lynch you, that drops 4/5%.
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Post Post #393 (ISO) » Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:07 pm

Post by Xite91 »

Porochaz wrote:
Xite91 wrote:
Porochaz wrote:@Xite, Outguessing the mod is not a hugely useful. It brings up a whole load of wifom that isn't fun to sift through and in the end gets us nowhere. A 7 man scum group would be excessive, a 6 man one would be as well although 3 - 3 I could see. However thats beside the point. Your knowledge of roles is quite limited as well, I don't know whether that was for the purposes of argument or whatever but generally a good place to start is MBF's flash thingie or http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... zoraster_2. You will find a larger variation in roles than cop/doc/vig/rber.
Considering this is a normal game, I expected very basic roles, also 6 or 7 is mathematically sound according to statistical analysis (Again, this is based on discussions IRL, and RL games so I guess it could be different online?)
You will notice that those are proposed roles for normal games. From my knowledge of BBM, he'll more than likely be fairly adventurous, and doc/cop can be a broken mechanic. I wouldn't base your thoughts on the game from experiences IRL, apparently not very similar. Reck went to a scummers meet, recently, he could probably agree/disagree with me on that issue. In any case as I said before, whilst I do enjoy getting a bit into this, its almost always a mistake too. Anything about the setup we guess would only be just that, and its not a good road to go down.
I pointed it out because of Franks post on his mafia theory, I was giving him mine in rebuttal, but I do agree that we should drop it for now, at least until we a few flips
Wraith wrote:I have to think a bit. If I can get some attacks and defenses going off around me, I might be able to make a good D1 lynch, so you can get some reads when I flip. Stay tuned, I'm gonna do some scumhunting tomorrow when I get home in the evening.
Way to give yourself an excuse for later.

Okay, so I think that we should either decide on a frank or a wraith lynch
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Post Post #394 (ISO) » Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:09 pm

Post by Wraith »

Porochaz wrote:There are already attacks going off around you, whilst I appreciate the effort of actually playing the game, which is actually turning into a novelty...

Wait, are you about to do the lynch me now gambit I've seen you do before? Because it's a really sucky move, it would only be your opinions only and your interactions, and if your town you are distracting us from a scum lynch. Put it this way, if we were rolling a d24 dice, and lynched the corresponding number that would be between 4/5% of catching scum. If you are town and you are looking for us to lynch you, that drops 4/5%.
What I don't want is a Frank lynch, because his flip will give us nothing. However, because I don't want a Frank lynch, people are accusing me of scumbuddying with Frank. Therefore, if someone is going to be the sacrificial lamb, I'm the better lynch.
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Post Post #395 (ISO) » Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:10 pm

Post by Porochaz »

Unfortunately I cant explain my reasoning for this. However if your basing it on the above post, a wraith lynch would be inadvisable.
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Post Post #396 (ISO) » Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:13 pm

Post by Xite91 »

Wraith wrote:
Porochaz wrote:There are already attacks going off around you, whilst I appreciate the effort of actually playing the game, which is actually turning into a novelty...

Wait, are you about to do the lynch me now gambit I've seen you do before? Because it's a really sucky move, it would only be your opinions only and your interactions, and if your town you are distracting us from a scum lynch. Put it this way, if we were rolling a d24 dice, and lynched the corresponding number that would be between 4/5% of catching scum. If you are town and you are looking for us to lynch you, that drops 4/5%.
What I don't want is a Frank lynch, because his flip will give us nothing. However, because I don't want a Frank lynch, people are accusing me of scumbuddying with Frank. Therefore, if someone is going to be the sacrificial lamb, I'm the better lynch.
His flip will give us plenty, especially when he flips scum.
Also, what info will your lynch get us?
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Post Post #397 (ISO) » Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:15 pm

Post by Wraith »

What you make of it. Better than Frank. For Frank, you'll get "He was sooooooooooooo scummy," which is true. With me you can at least analyze my wagon for people who gave good reasons (town), people who gave bad reasons (wild), people who gave no reasons (scum), and people who say "he said to vote for him" (scum)
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"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs

"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly
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Porochaz
Porochaz
Oh, Prozac
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Porochaz
Oh, Prozac
Oh, Prozac
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Joined: September 6, 2007

Post Post #398 (ISO) » Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:16 pm

Post by Porochaz »

Edit from my previous post: post 393.

You don't want a Frank lynch so your going to act as scummy as possible so that we get your lynch and your going to "orchestrate" some goings on to make sure we get information. Which in actuality is just your opinions and you will be distracting us from actual scumhunting. May I remind all players in the game that we have only started this day, and although it looks like its likely to be a short one, having just had a look we still have 3 players with a confirm post and 1 more with nothing! (I think) Bandwagons still might not come of anything even if it is at L-3, L-2 etc. Thats why (going back to something earlier) claiming is a ridiculous idea unless we are at L-1.

Besides, you might not want a Frank lynch but I think it's a good vote and what gives you the right to overlord my opinion? You are entitled to your own opinion but playing in such a way, as town or scum that distracts from real scumhunting is severely anti town and you need to stop doing it.
Mostly retired. Unless you ask or it's something interesting.
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Xite91
Xite91
Mafia Scum
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Xite91
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Post Post #399 (ISO) » Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:17 pm

Post by Xite91 »

Wraith wrote:What you make of it. Better than Frank. For Frank, you'll get "He was sooooooooooooo scummy," which is true. With me you can at least analyze my wagon for people who gave good reasons (town), people who gave bad reasons (wild), people who gave no reasons (scum), and people who say "he said to vote for him" (scum)
You can do the same with frank, I mean, there was you, singer, and a few others that I definitely want to take a look at, but Frank is definitely my choice for a lynch today
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