NY 118 - BBM's Large Normal Mafia (Game!)

[UltimaAvalon]

Dana's breadcrumb

[UltimaAvalon]

unless there was another breadcrumb I've missed...then....I dunno

[hiphop]

3. Asks for reasons to bandwagon Wraith in the RVS. Why does there need to be a reason?

I don't think hiphop is being random...

Here i can give you some choices
1. I am a top secret agent that is tracking him only to find him on this site
2. Been watching Stargate:Atlantis lately, and the bad guys are named Wraith.
3. I am scum who will deliberately call his teammate out.
I am sure you can figure out which one it really is being it was my first vote of the game.

Agree that hiphop has been posting more and better and now some people will help me lynch Frankscum.

Really? Seriously? Maybe you should read me again, or tell people the truth that frank has outstripped me. Why do you feel the need to make up excuses, when the truth will suffice? Anyone that will actually meta me will see that my play in this game is different than my scum game or town. it will probably stay that way until the game slows down. Truth be told I am abiding my time till then.

HipHop - I thought he felt like town. I am not the best at reading people.

Thought? What has changed your mind? Being that this is off the top of your head I can't really expect to you to answer that. Also how did you get a town read on me? Are your opinions based that much on what others say?

In your first post you quite clearly state you have no opinion (or have I misunderstood?) And yet, you claim later that you were voting hom for the same reason as everybody else. What's more, you've stated that you don't think it really matters who we lynch day 1, yet you claim later in the second post I quoted (here for the audience playing along at home) that you're going to do some iso's before voting. So clearly it does matter.

Meant reads instead of opinion. I doubt you would believe me because what has been written is written. I guess I can blame it on my neatness. And as for the iso's I found nothing that stood out, so i will follow the rest and

vote frank

At this point as long as it isn't a pr it doesn't matter.

xite-It would probably be best if you didn't try to outguess the mod with setup speculation. What exactly are you trying to prove? Why do it day 1? Do you think it is helpful when truly there can be over 1000 different ways a mod can setup all we have is a claimed cop and the knowledge of our individual roles?

I don't know why Frank isn't dead yet! I've been trying to get him lynched for forever...

Not Voting [10] (robbnva, seth, Johnny Rotten, Orochi, Sebguer, Kise, Reck, wraith, hiphop, benmage)

Does this help you understanding of why he isn't dead?

UA-The way it seems it looks like he is referring to another one, though I don't know where he spotted it.

[Xite91]

xite-It would probably be best if you didn't try to outguess the mod with setup speculation. What exactly are you trying to prove? Why do it day 1? Do you think it is helpful when truly there can be over 1000 different ways a mod can setup all we have is a claimed cop and the knowledge of our individual roles?

Already discussed, reasons already given, and this topic is done for nao plox

[nhammen]

I have stated my suspicions of hiphop before and FoSed him. Please read the thread.

So you did. That post in which you voted hiphop just read like something completely new. My bad.

@nhammen: the comment on hiphop's random wagon wasn't meant to be defensive, it was meant to show that I didn't find it scummy or townie, but rather null.

But the fact that you felt like you had to say this is what is defensive.

Oh wow! Furc wants to lynch a PR lynch day 1. How utterly surprising. I am sad to say that this fits with what I have seen from furc previously.

Let's vote the two people who are posting like town on this page you gaiz! I AM SO GOOD AT MAFIA. I would vote you, but I am not petty nor an idiot like you apparently are if those are your top 2 suspicions.

You consider yourself and hiphop the most protown players? About yourself: get out of your dreamland. About hiphop: what has he done that is so protown?

On Singersinger: yeah, that was parroting. Do you have any other comment than that?
On Benmage: I don't do gut
On Bunnylover: I keep going back and forth on this guy. One moment I think he is newb Scum that is having a hard time faking Town. Next moment I think he is newb Town that doesn't even know how to scumhunt. And then back.
On UA: I don't remember much about his play other than him getting involved in that whole huge argument to nowhere.

Regarding Singersigner: Nope. Is there something else I should have commented on?
Regarding Benmage: Expect a lot of it from me.
Regarding Bunnylover: Well, he has 'Mafia Scum' under his name so he should have enough experience to know what kind of scumtells he needs to be looking for and should be capable of having some reads 11 pages into the game.
Regarding UA: Well, he waited until page 12 to give his first game relevant opinion on a player, but still seems to be compfortable having his vote on himself.

Well, parroting isn't all that scummy by itself. I was just wondering if you had more comments.
Yeah, UA seems to have been sliding by in the early game. Except why would he get involved in that huge argument if he was just trying to slide by.

he has no chance of using his role whatsoever
if he doesnt die, and there's no protection, he's scum
if he actually is a cop,

they will stack their kills on him

therefore, if he is a cop, he won't ever be able to investigate at all, as he's going to die
by lynching him, we are protecting our other power roles from being lynched

I can link you to several games in which a cop claimed and survived the night after. One of which, a newbie game, the cop claimed day 1, the scum didn't have a roleblocker, and they kept the cop alive two nights until he was lynched for what I recall was because he was kept alive so long. Secondly, if there

is

a roleblocker this is a good reason to keep Dana alive. This is no good reason to lynch him. Also, some doctors protect against all kills. Also, the bolded is a slip. How do you know there are multiple groups in this game? I thought you were town, but you seem to be using any bad argument you can to try and get dana lynched.

Good catch on the slip. Hadn't noticed that. I was just thinking it was more VIfurc.

vote Frank

hiphop has started being useful, although his last ninja post is not good.

I dislike this vote switch. hiphop hasn't posted anything this page aside from defending himself and explaining why lynching the cop is bad. Is that really useful enough for you? I find it hard to believe you are actually satisfied.

Hmmm... so you think Poro is opportunistically joining the furc wagon as it grows? Or distancing from a buddy? Or something else?

Answered in a later post: opportunistic.

Agree that hiphop has been posting more and better and now some people will help me lynch Frankscum.

Really? I'm not seeing that.

Any suggestions on whom I should target tonight if we lynch Furcolow? I will not tell you who I am actually going to target until D2, but I would like some suggestions.

Hmmm... Wraith, hiphop, or Bunnylover are my suggestions.

Also, there are what, THREE people who haven't posted yet? Anyone up for a pressure wagon on one of them? I have a strong feeling at least one of them is scum.

Wouldn't it be hilarious if the three lurkers were ALL scum, and we were town fighting amongst ourselves?

Ugh! Active lurking is worse than lurking. If those 3 don't post, they will be replaced. If you want a lurker wagon, there are much better targets. Like Bunnylover. And Kise, who I had completely forgotten about until just now.

If this claim is indeed fake, and there is a cop around, I would ask him not to counterclaim. It wouldn't make sense as dana wouldn't be the most valuable scum, and the cop could do some major damage to the scumteam in a large game (he stays alive for longer, and might save up a few results).

Does anybody know if the mod is known for using cops?

First bit: I'm debating coming after you based on some meta-type ideas I recently saw.

This is a dumb question. It doesn't matter if he is or not because he could or could not be here.

Actually, mod meta can be a pretty good way of determining the accuracy of a claim. I know that in a previous case, a mafia claimed PGO when the mod had previously said he would never ever use a PGO. He was lynched for it. So if BBM is one of those mods that hates Cops, there might be god reason to disbelieve the claim. I for instance, I don't use Cops unless they are nerfed in some way.

As for your next ISO
Don't ISO people unless you're going to point out what in the ISO you don't like. That was just a waste of space IMHO

That was just Wraith's attempt to fake scumhunting.

I need to take a break. I'm obviously doing things too fast (ie my ISOs, which are definitely not as good as some in my previous games).

Translation: "I need to stop doing things that people are attacking me for."

@Xite: If I was scum with Furcolow, I would not be doing this much defending.

WIFOM and claiming that you are Too scummy to be Scum.

I'm assuming Furcolow is town because he's too easy to lynch. If he was scum he wouldn't attract this much attention to himself. Therefore, I believe at least one or two scum are part of the "lynch Furcolow" mob.

And furc is Too scummy to be Scum as well. How nice.


Agree with the entirety of ConfidAnon's 389 Wraith case. Where were you when I was voting Wraith? Well:

VOTE: Wraith

I have to think a bit. If I can get some attacks and defenses going off around me, I might be able to make a good D1 lynch, so you can get some reads when I flip. Stay tuned, I'm gonna do some scumhunting tomorrow when I get home in the evening.

Ummm... what? This is bad play from either alignment. Also, I look forward to this "scumhunting" you will do.


Yaaay! Bunnylurker stopped lurking and gave a game related comment!

3. Asks for reasons to bandwagon Wraith in the RVS. Why does there need to be a reason?

I don't think hiphop is being random...

I want to play my Xbox tonight. I'll play ketchup tomorrow.

Hey Kise. Have you given any comment on the game ever?


furc's 417 is actually useful. From other players it wouldn't be good, but nobody's reads match up with furc's so this doesn't hurt the Town, but does show his views for later use. And reminds people that there are some people, like Kise, that have been hiding.

@ ConfidAnon
Well, for one thing, I said Wraith and Furc were both scum, and I have to choose one of them. But for another thing, if Furc flips town somehow it partially clears Wraith, who has been defending him.

I think where you said defending, you should have said buddying.


Shanba's 467 is making me strike out my vote of Wraith above, and stay on hiphop
VOTE: hiphop


Oh! Yay! More thread explosion from dana, Xite, and UA. How absolutely wonderful.

Wait a minute. Was Frank the first one to bring up multiple scum groups? On Day 1? Why is he not dead yet?

Show me.

Agree that hiphop has been posting more and better and now some people will help me lynch Frankscum.

Really? Seriously?

Wait a sec. Are you admitting that your play hasn't improved? If so, why haven't you been trying?

[Furcolow]

@Frank: I don't remember the terminology for it, but most of your argument for your own townlieness revolves around "I know what my role PM says", and you calling everyone who says otherwise a liar for it. Not only did it bug the hell out of me the first time you did it on page 3 or so, it's just not an argument. It's not what you know that makes you a Townie (quite the opposite really, as the town is uninformed by definition), and it's not "What you can convince others", it's what you can prove through your actions. Super tunneling on Dana doesn't prove you're a townie. Ranting, raving lunacy, or "splaffing", doesn't prove you're a townie. Refusal to act in a Pro-town manner, especially when advised by several town-ish players on how to do so, doesn't prove you're a townie.

All the advice I've been getting doesn't amount to shit. I still find you scummy for your behavior with dana. How have I been tunneling when I am suspicious of multiple people?

I didn't say I did things to look more town. I just said that I did things to show people that I am town. There's a difference. And if that sends warning sirens off in your head, there's something wrong with your theory.

I don't feel a need to do this at all. I wonder why. I WONDER WHY YOU NEED TO TRY. HMMMM.
Oh, it's because you're lying mafia.

Okay, Useful ISO time!!!
All post numbers are ISO numbers

8) Is the 6th person to jump on the wagon, perty terrible reasoning IMO
9) Just read this post and you'll understand
10-15) Attacking Dana hardcore, because the rest of the town has been pushing him, he does too so he blends in, only problem is that he went too far with it
16) Here's two point UA makes that are just too valid not to be buddying...
19) Another good read
21) Already pointed out why this one was scummy... someone even called it "searching the thread" But when it's just staring you in the eye, it's not searching the thread, it's seeing scummy things and calling them out
23) This is like the bajillionth time I've seen him just throw a mafia term out there, usually a scumtrait. (This has a lot to do with how psychics work, they use certain buzzwords, and then people find a way it relates, and then go, OMG you're so amazing, there must be something there)
24) I lol'd so hard. Oh, you're making points against me? Well too bad, lalalalalalala not listening!!!!!
Not even touching 25-33
34) LOL. my case means nothing because of my age. That's a good one. I'm pretty sure a 4 year old would hear what you were saying and say you were the "bad guy" Age has nothing to do with it.
35)

and if i'm your top suspect, we are obviously not reading the same game

That's his next response. I make a case and he doesn't try to dispute it, instead he tries to discredit it, another scum trait
36) Another good read
Again, not even touching 37-40
41) More AtE
Here, I'l even show you

Let's vote the two people who are posting like town on this page you gaiz! I AM SO GOOD AT MAFIA. I would vote you, but I am not petty nor an idiot like you apparently are if those are your top 2 suspicions.

you are also close-minded if you think that it is impossible to lynch someone for a fakeclaim, which is obviously a fakeclaim, due to a shitty ass breadcrumb

you make me sick

Oh yeah and there's also that one term, Ad hom was it?
Yeah, that's in there too, which according to him is a great reason to vote, proof later down.
42) I love you Mod
44) MOOOOOOORE AtE. Whatever guys, lynch me, my life is a black abyss.
47) I love how all of his suspects are the ones that attacked him
50)

xite, stop the ad hom right now

vote: xite

And there's your proof
51) Another good read!
52) I can't stop laughing when I see this.
54-57 too ^

OK, dispute this fact: As scum I do nothing more than simply make one liners
and I'm not doing that this game
so therefore I am not scum

Let's put this another way, shall we? You are a human. You do some things to seem more human sometimes. You wouldn't want people calling you inhuman for your behavior. Just because you do things to seem more like a human like combing your hair or putting on deodorant doesn't mean you are not in fact human.

I don't care what people think about me, because whether or not I act it, I am human.
Also, I like to see people's reactions and find out what kind of people they are, so sometimes I do things against the norm.

How's that for a metaphor?

@Wickid, what does that make me? I FoS'd Dana, but didn't vote him, and I'm on the frank wagon.
There are many who were on both wagons IIRC

If you are town, you really need to change your behavior. I know it's going to be funny because it's coming from the person who has the most votes for them, so it's the pot calling the kettle black, but at least if I flip, then it will be town, and people will realize that I was honestly suspicious of danakillsu. Voting for someone while FoS on another is a sign of scum buddying in my book and is a

common tell

.

Benmage needs rope, probably.

You already are insane. I would be going insane if I was scum at L-2 or L-1 too.

In my younger days I've gone quite berserk being strung up on what I felt were incorrect reasonings..(as town)

You're 19?

I'm not the best player in the world yet, but I am both older than you and more experienced than you when it comes to mafia.

You're older than me. Yet I am much more experienced than you, and arguably the best player in the world. This is the second time I am reading this 19 pathetic thing. If she was much younger and still developing congitive thinking and playing poorly.....maybe...But not called out by someone as lowly as you. Why don't you argue something like she's female and has worse analytical capacity....that'll sell .

I was saying that I don't see why I am getting confronted for "lurking" when their are several more people who haven't posted and yet no one has called them out for "lurking".

Deflection noted.

I have played 60+ games, and I have a bigger penis... oh wait, I don't care.

Win.


On pg 12 =/….Trying here. But its zooming. Been busy irl. And theres little motivation in reading this game when everytime I come back a few more pages spring up. Although with the lessening spam spat from furc/dana its becoming more bearable.

Iso flame says not hammering….moar votes.

Vote Frank

. This guy is terrible.

Chainsaw noted

Two of them were. The other two on the main "bandwagons" were out down when there was only one person on the wagon at the time (shanba for dana, xite for frank- even then, that vote was put down before the reasons I voted frank for) so it's not really opportunistic when I am one of the first on the scene. People can agree with me and make it a bandwagon however when I went and voted, it wasn't one. Besides even if it was, would it matter? Why are they the two main bandwagons in the game? I mean the suspicions against them weren't baseless and if they were why were they bandwagons? The fact is the aim of the game is to catch scum, I have voted for two people I have suspicions against. People have agreed with the premise so have voted with me. Also, how do you know, Frank isn't scum? There is no reason to assume Frank is town at the moment. I mean, your calling me opportunistic for being on a popular wagon but

there has to be a reason on why its popular.

I'm trying hard to work out your reasons for voting me, the fact that I have been on the 2 biggest bandwagons is a null argument as I explained in the paragraph above. I don't feel giving my views on the players that aren't near the top of my scum list is helpful, it just muddies the water. I think your voting me, simply because I'm voting Frank. Your arguments are false and are a misrepresentation and I'm really struggling to see your motives if your town. I think you have failed to make any compelling argument against me and you are struggling to make it stick.

I'll tell you why - There are a ton of scum on it because I'm suspicious of them. They want me dead. I get killed night 1 by scum too much to not believe I am someone they actually want to kill (because my reads are good, to be honest). I don't see why they do, though, when they can just get me mislynched on some bullshit. no-case-whatsoever. I am an innocent man, and I have not been proven guilty, so this is very childish to lynch me and isn't the proper play for the town whatsoever, but it's better than us losing our medic.

Wait a minute. Was Frank the first one to bring up multiple scum groups? On Day 1? Why is he not dead yet?

I didn't bring up multiple scum groups, learn to read. I said that they should have multiple kills in the night if this is balanced properly.

I don't know why Frank isn't dead yet! I've been trying to get him lynched for forever...

Over a scum-OMGUS you put onto me, with 0 case whatsoever, other than you strawmanning half of my case onto you and trying to twist my words into lies.

No. TRYING to look Town is what makes you looks scummy, because Scum HAVE to act like Town in order to live. If you're Town, you only have to not look like Scum. And there is a lot of grey in between these two concepts

Well, I manage to get mislynched enough as town, and this game is going to be the same it seems. I must be in that grey area, really need to tighten my game up.

I'm going to

vote: hiphop

for these reasons:
1) because I thought he was protown, and I'm an idiot, so I'm going to try something new (the opposite of what frank would normally do theory!)
2) because he has a lot of votes
3) because I have a lot of votes
4) because I know my role, and I don't know his

I know I said that he looked like town, and that looks ugly, but I'm going to have to deal with that.

[Porochaz]

@Frank: I don't remember the terminology for it, but most of your argument for your own townlieness revolves around "I know what my role PM says", and you calling everyone who says otherwise a liar for it. Not only did it bug the hell out of me the first time you did it on page 3 or so, it's just not an argument. It's not what you know that makes you a Townie (quite the opposite really, as the town is uninformed by definition), and it's not "What you can convince others", it's what you can prove through your actions. Super tunneling on Dana doesn't prove you're a townie. Ranting, raving lunacy, or "splaffing", doesn't prove you're a townie. Refusal to act in a Pro-town manner, especially when advised by several town-ish players on how to do so, doesn't prove you're a townie.

All the advice I've been getting doesn't amount to shit. I still find you scummy for your behavior with dana. How have I been tunneling when I am suspicious of multiple people?

Suspicous of multiple people branching off of dana.

Okay, Useful ISO time!!!
All post numbers are ISO numbers

8) Is the 6th person to jump on the wagon, perty terrible reasoning IMO
9) Just read this post and you'll understand
10-15) Attacking Dana hardcore, because the rest of the town has been pushing him, he does too so he blends in, only problem is that he went too far with it
16) Here's two point UA makes that are just too valid not to be buddying...
19) Another good read
21) Already pointed out why this one was scummy... someone even called it "searching the thread" But when it's just staring you in the eye, it's not searching the thread, it's seeing scummy things and calling them out
23) This is like the bajillionth time I've seen him just throw a mafia term out there, usually a scumtrait. (This has a lot to do with how psychics work, they use certain buzzwords, and then people find a way it relates, and then go, OMG you're so amazing, there must be something there)
24) I lol'd so hard. Oh, you're making points against me? Well too bad, lalalalalalala not listening!!!!!
Not even touching 25-33
34) LOL. my case means nothing because of my age. That's a good one. I'm pretty sure a 4 year old would hear what you were saying and say you were the "bad guy" Age has nothing to do with it.
35)

and if i'm your top suspect, we are obviously not reading the same game

That's his next response. I make a case and he doesn't try to dispute it, instead he tries to discredit it, another scum trait
36) Another good read
Again, not even touching 37-40
41) More AtE
Here, I'l even show you

Let's vote the two people who are posting like town on this page you gaiz! I AM SO GOOD AT MAFIA. I would vote you, but I am not petty nor an idiot like you apparently are if those are your top 2 suspicions.

you are also close-minded if you think that it is impossible to lynch someone for a fakeclaim, which is obviously a fakeclaim, due to a shitty ass breadcrumb

you make me sick

Oh yeah and there's also that one term, Ad hom was it?
Yeah, that's in there too, which according to him is a great reason to vote, proof later down.
42) I love you Mod
44) MOOOOOOORE AtE. Whatever guys, lynch me, my life is a black abyss.
47) I love how all of his suspects are the ones that attacked him
50)

xite, stop the ad hom right now

vote: xite

And there's your proof
51) Another good read!
52) I can't stop laughing when I see this.
54-57 too ^

OK, dispute this fact: As scum I do nothing more than simply make one liners
and I'm not doing that this game
so therefore I am not scum

Im sure I say this every single game:

If you know your meta, you can change your meta. So your defence of that whole post amounts to null. Never use self meta to defend yourself as it just makes you look more scummy.

Benmage needs rope, probably.

You already are insane. I would be going insane if I was scum at L-2 or L-1 too.

In my younger days I've gone quite berserk being strung up on what I felt were incorrect reasonings..(as town)

You're 19?

I'm not the best player in the world yet, but I am both older than you and more experienced than you when it comes to mafia.

You're older than me. Yet I am much more experienced than you, and arguably the best player in the world. This is the second time I am reading this 19 pathetic thing. If she was much younger and still developing congitive thinking and playing poorly.....maybe...But not called out by someone as lowly as you. Why don't you argue something like she's female and has worse analytical capacity....that'll sell .

I was saying that I don't see why I am getting confronted for "lurking" when their are several more people who haven't posted and yet no one has called them out for "lurking".

Deflection noted.

I have played 60+ games, and I have a bigger penis... oh wait, I don't care.

Win.


On pg 12 =/….Trying here. But its zooming. Been busy irl. And theres little motivation in reading this game when everytime I come back a few more pages spring up. Although with the lessening spam spat from furc/dana its becoming more bearable.

Iso flame says not hammering….moar votes.

Vote Frank

. This guy is terrible.

Chainsaw noted

Im glad you quoted all of this just to post two words on it. Trying to word out which definition of chainsaw you mean but even then I'm also wondering if you know what chainsaw means.

Two of them were. The other two on the main "bandwagons" were out down when there was only one person on the wagon at the time (shanba for dana, xite for frank- even then, that vote was put down before the reasons I voted frank for) so it's not really opportunistic when I am one of the first on the scene. People can agree with me and make it a bandwagon however when I went and voted, it wasn't one. Besides even if it was, would it matter? Why are they the two main bandwagons in the game? I mean the suspicions against them weren't baseless and if they were why were they bandwagons? The fact is the aim of the game is to catch scum, I have voted for two people I have suspicions against. People have agreed with the premise so have voted with me. Also, how do you know, Frank isn't scum? There is no reason to assume Frank is town at the moment. I mean, your calling me opportunistic for being on a popular wagon but

there has to be a reason on why its popular.

I'm trying hard to work out your reasons for voting me, the fact that I have been on the 2 biggest bandwagons is a null argument as I explained in the paragraph above. I don't feel giving my views on the players that aren't near the top of my scum list is helpful, it just muddies the water. I think your voting me, simply because I'm voting Frank. Your arguments are false and are a misrepresentation and I'm really struggling to see your motives if your town. I think you have failed to make any compelling argument against me and you are struggling to make it stick.

I'll tell you why - There are a ton of scum on it because I'm suspicious of them. They want me dead. I get killed night 1 by scum too much to not believe I am someone they actually want to kill (because my reads are good, to be honest). I don't see why they do, though, when they can just get me mislynched on some bullshit. no-case-whatsoever. I am an innocent man, and I have not been proven guilty, so this is very childish to lynch me and isn't the proper play for the town whatsoever, but it's better than us losing our medic.

Oh good, the old "Im-town-because-my-role-pm-told-me-so" defence. Again.

Wait a minute. Was Frank the first one to bring up multiple scum groups? On Day 1? Why is he not dead yet?

I didn't bring up multiple scum groups, learn to read. I said that they should have multiple kills in the night if this is balanced properly.

No there doesn't.

I don't know why Frank isn't dead yet! I've been trying to get him lynched for forever...

Over a scum-OMGUS you put onto me, with 0 case whatsoever, other than you strawmanning half of my case onto you and trying to twist my words into lies.

The lynching the claimed cop day 1, the arrogance, the Im town, plleeeeeeeeeeease believe me defence, the self meta.

No. TRYING to look Town is what makes you looks scummy, because Scum HAVE to act like Town in order to live. If you're Town, you only have to not look like Scum. And there is a lot of grey in between these two concepts

Well, I manage to get mislynched enough as town, and this game is going to be the same it seems. I must be in that grey area, really need to tighten my game up.

I don't think there is any grey area about it. If your constantly getting mislynched as town, its time to improve your game.

I'm going to

vote: hiphop

for these reasons:
1) because I thought he was protown, and I'm an idiot, so I'm going to try something new (the opposite of what frank would normally do theory!)
2) because he has a lot of votes
3) because I have a lot of votes
4) because I know my role, and I don't know his

1. You think he's town. 2. and 3. No reasons, just survival tactics. 4.

I know I said that he looked like town, and that looks ugly, but I'm going to have to deal with that.

Like voting for someone you actually find scummy, noooo, that wouldn't be a good idea and a townie thing to do at all...

[Robbnva]

assuming he's a cop:
1) We get the most information out of his lynch, as it has definitely polarized the town the most
2) as a result of getting the most information, it would be the best wagon to analyze
3) with 24 people, he isn't our only cop imo, and he's probably going to die so no investigation

lynch him, or he dies night 1, what's the difference? would you all rather out more power roles through pressure?
If you all want to out all these "power roles" through wagons, why don't we just fucking claim?
Sorry for the tone, but I'm a little ticked off you all are letting this liar off the hook.


assuming he is not a cop:
1) his team will be down to 4 or 5 members, probably 4 imo. They will be closer to 1 KP (they should have 2-3... 3 would be imba unless town has a lot of O.P. roles)
2) we can lynch people who buddied with him. Not people who he buddied with, though, as scum buddies with town
3) it would pretty much confirm a few people to me, like jdodge, or porochaz.
.

going back and re-reading, I really can't believe I am reading this, he is REALLY waying out the pros and cons of lynching the cop, assuming that there is another cop around, i'm sorry that is not an assumption I am willing to make.
the only other acceptable lynch on day 1 if it isn't scum, is lynching a nilla townie.

there is no need to even consider lynching a cop, even if it is a fake claim, the real cop will investigate and provide information later.

vote frank

unless I am off base, I think this is really the best move on day 1

[Porochaz]

Mod can you tell us whats happening with Johnny Rotten and seth?

Also can we get a prod on Jay?

[UltimaAvalon]

Wait a minute. Was Frank the first one to bring up multiple scum groups? On Day 1? Why is he not dead yet?

Show me.

I believe its the post where he listed reasons why Dana-Cop needs to be lynched

@Frank: I don't remember the terminology for it, but most of your argument for your own townlieness revolves around "I know what my role PM says", and you calling everyone who says otherwise a liar for it. Not only did it bug the hell out of me the first time you did it on page 3 or so, it's just not an argument. It's not what you know that makes you a Townie (quite the opposite really, as the town is uninformed by definition), and it's not "What you can convince others", it's what you can prove through your actions. Super tunneling on Dana doesn't prove you're a townie. Ranting, raving lunacy, or "splaffing", doesn't prove you're a townie. Refusal to act in a Pro-town manner, especially when advised by several town-ish players on how to do so, doesn't prove you're a townie.

All the advice I've been getting doesn't amount to shit. I still find you scummy for your behavior with dana. How have I been tunneling when I am suspicious of multiple people?

What Prozac said

Wait a minute. Was Frank the first one to bring up multiple scum groups? On Day 1? Why is he not dead yet?

I didn't bring up multiple scum groups, learn to read. I said that they should have multiple kills in the night if this is balanced properly.

You're right. I distinctly remember reading that exchange with you and Prozac, not having a clue what you were going on about, and promising myself to go and look at it later. I just now figured out what you meant by it
1) When has this happened, ever?
2) We can't even begin this kind of speculation until we actually have a kill to analyze. Why in the 9 Hells did you bring it up?

No. TRYING to look Town is what makes you looks scummy, because Scum HAVE to act like Town in order to live. If you're Town, you only have to not look like Scum. And there is a lot of grey in between these two concepts

Well, I manage to get mislynched enough as town, and this game is going to be the same it seems. I must be in that grey area, really need to tighten my game up.

Then stop sucking at Mafia

I'm going to

vote: hiphop

for these reasons:
1) because I thought he was protown, and I'm an idiot, so I'm going to try something new (the opposite of what frank would normally do theory!)
2) because he has a lot of votes
3) because I have a lot of votes
4) because I know my role, and I don't know his

I know I said that he looked like town, and that looks ugly, but I'm going to have to deal with that.

So now, in order to prove yourself right, that you aren' tunneling on Dana, you're going to jump on the hop wagon because you think he's protown? No, seriously, all 4 of those are probably the worst reasons to jump on a bandwagon, ever, and then you went and stuck em all together just so you could see my brain leak out of my ears. Bravo.

How is 4 even an argument for you being Town? Scum know their roles too. They also don't know the roles of Townies. They also may or may not know the roles of their buddies.

[Wraith]

@UA: THe breadccrumb I spotted was Xite's. I don't know why he's claiming at this point, but it's null-tell IMO. He could be scum trying to set up a future believable claim like Dana did, or he could be genuinely town. Either way, I don't think it should affect anyone's reads on him much.

[Flameaxe]

Mod can you tell us whats happening with Johnny Rotten and seth?

Also can we get a prod on Jay?

As stated in the rules, they get 48 hours to post from the prod, and right now would make that 48 hour point.

Yes, you may have a prod on Jay.

[Wickedestjr]

@Wickid, what does that make me? I FoS'd Dana, but didn't vote him, and I'm on the frank wagon.
There are many who were on both wagons IIRC

I believed that Porochaz switched to the Furcolow bandwagon only because he wanted to be on the bandwagon.

Porochaz, I'm still not getting why you unvoted hiphop. Also, you are right, dana and Frank didn't have bandwagons, but Frank

was

getting lots of attention.

@ Wickedest
I'm not so awesome at Mafia Theory that I actually know what point in the game is the best time to breadcrumb at. Why are you asking me all these questions about breadcrumbs? I'm doing it because I've seen others do it and people (including me) have believed their claims. I know some of the reasons for that, but not all. Maybe you should just enlighten us if there's something you know and we don't.

I was trying to figure out what the town motivation was for breadcrumbing after you got seven votes. Breadcrumbs are useless when you have lots of attention.

You called my vote on dana opportunistic and voted for me, and now you're calling Porochaz's vote on Frank opportunistic and you're voting for him. In both cases, you've avoided voting on the two main wagons and are now using votes on those same wagons as a scum tell. What this looks like to me is a deliberate attempt to manufacture scum tells by using whatever wagon pops up. I have a feeling if the Frank wagon dies and some other wagon pops up, you'll vote someone else for being "opportunistic". This is called fake scumhunting.

I voted Porochaz mostly for his unvote for hiphop.

Is there a reason everyone is totally ignoring my last post? I demand attention, dammit!

I think your points against hiphop were good ones. I might put my vote there.

I'm caught up except for page 21. It looks like a pretty ugly page. Reading it now.

[Porochaz]

I voted Frank because I thought he was scummier than hiphop

[Wraith]

Okay, catching up some more, I'm losing faith in my defense of Furcolow faster and faster, especially with the scumslip post Wicked pointed out. TBH however, I think it can be safe to believe there's a possibility that there are two scum groups, considering the size of the game, but I suppose the scumminess of that comment comes from the certainty. Also, lynching the claimed cop is STUPID no matter how you look at it. If we're trying to avoid lynching our power roles I think we're better off lynching you, because you've denied my wild speculation that you're a PR playing VI to avoid a nightkill. Even if we don't lynch, he draws a nightkill or at least a roleblock, if there is a scum roleblocker. Better for him to die at night and given a chance than struck down by the town after he's claimed. I'm also doubting myself over Furcolow because of his continued ultra-scummy play, specifically his jumping onto the most popular wagon whenever he sees it. I believe he's on the hiphop wagon now?

I think I was going to say something else but I forgot. Got too caught up in the WIFOM going on in my head about Frank.

[Xite91]

@UA: THe breadccrumb I spotted was Xite's. I don't know why he's claiming at this point, but it's null-tell IMO. He could be scum trying to set up a future believable claim like Dana did, or he could be genuinely town. Either way, I don't think it should affect anyone's reads on him much.

Lulz really? You mean that thing I did to show dana that anyone could breadcrumb anything? At anytime? And the fact that it doesn't mean jack shit about if that's actually what it is? Oh, and the one I pointed out so that he would notice? Or at least made abundantly clear that that was an example, but eh, I guess you're just really slow.
Really not sure what else to say to you right now.

[Wraith]

However, I'll add that either way I think me voting Frank will end up as a lose-lose for me. I'll immediately get hit by a wall of bussing accusations, and if he flips scum I'll probably be the Day 2 lynch. If I vote for him and he flips town, I'll still probably get lynched Day 2 for suddenly flip-flopping on my stance and joining his very popular wagon. But whatever, I don't really care, because my lynch would save a PR from being mislynched. I still honestly think lynching Frank is a bad idea in the long run, but nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Vote: Frank

[Xite91]

Okay, catching up some more, I'm losing faith in my defense of Furcolow faster and faster, especially with the scumslip post Wicked pointed out. TBH however, I think it can be safe to believe there's a possibility that there are two scum groups, considering the size of the game, but I suppose the scumminess of that comment comes from the certainty. Also, lynching the claimed cop is STUPID no matter how you look at it. If we're trying to avoid lynching our power roles I think we're better off lynching you, because you've denied my wild speculation that you're a PR playing VI to avoid a nightkill. Even if we don't lynch, he draws a nightkill or at least a roleblock, if there is a scum roleblocker. Better for him to die at night and given a chance than struck down by the town after he's claimed. I'm also doubting myself over Furcolow because of his continued ultra-scummy play, specifically his jumping onto the most popular wagon whenever he sees it. I believe he's on the hiphop wagon now?

I think I was going to say something else but I forgot. Got too caught up in the WIFOM going on in my head about Frank.

Oh, now that he's got a lot of attention, and you're our next choice suspect, with the exception of maybe hip hop?

[Wraith]

@Xite: Yes, I'm running really slow right now. Considering how fast the posts here pile up and that I'm absent most of the day during the weekdays (I have the day off today, hallelujah) I'm slow to catch up and I've been doing a lot of skimming.

[Xite91]

However, I'll add that either way I think me voting Frank will end up as a lose-lose for me. I'll immediately get hit by a wall of bussing accusations, and if he flips scum I'll probably be the Day 2 lynch. If I vote for him and he flips town, I'll still probably get lynched Day 2 for suddenly flip-flopping on my stance and joining his very popular wagon. But whatever, I don't really care, because my lynch would save a PR from being mislynched. I still honestly think lynching Frank is a bad idea in the long run, but nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Vote: Frank

AtE too? Funfunfun
Oh, didn't you have a strategy where you WANT to get lynched?

Preview edit
How does that defend what you're doing AT ALL?

[Wraith]

Argh, I hate simulposting. I've addressed that inevitability in my 516, so whatever. Keep hunting me.

[Shanba]

/drinks the wine

I don't think Wraith is scum (or at the very least I don't think his switch on to Frank is that scummy.) It's not good scum strategy that; i frank were to get lynched tomorrow I'd wager that post would make him odds on favourite to be lynched. Yes I know it's wifom, but in my experiience people never play for the wifom interpretation! Or to put it another way, it's much more likely that he is genuinely town who has changed his mind than that he is scum who has suddenly decided it would be a good idea to attack Frank after all.

The only way I could see him scum is if Frank is also scum, as then his motivations as scum make a hell of a lot more sense (originally trying to avoid frank getting lynched, but when it looks inevitable switches over to attacking him to see if he can regain some lost credibility.) I still haven't made up my mind about Frank himself yet; a lot of the tells seem more about his lack of knowledge (yes that's a euphemism) than anything else, for example when he said the scum probably have an extra kill.

Hiphop is still abdicating responsibility and refusing to commit to who he actually thinks is scum. Here's a hint, hiphop. Even if it is impossible to accurately find scum day 1, but saying that because of that you're not going to scumhunt day 1

makes it impossible to find scum on later days, too.

The distinction he is trying to draw between reads and opinions is meaningless, as a read is just an opinion about who is scum and that he clearly did have. I still can't reconcile his two statements.

BBM, when you prod JD make sure he posts ASAP as he's probably soon going to be using the song contest as an excuse.

[Shanba]

Also, seth has only posted in the confirmation stage, sebguer has been V/LA all game and so has Orochi, and Johnny Rotten still hasn't posted anything. He hasn't even confirmed! We need contributions of some type from every player if we are to be able to scumhunt effectively. Please do something particularly about johnny and seth.

[danakillsu]

I apologize for the recent second thread explosion. It is apparent that trying to prove my opinion is useless because I can't get anything out of UA or xite other than a stating of their opinions. Anybody know how long until the day ends? If it's close, don't vote for anyone other than Frank or hiphop, so we can at least lynch someone today. Also, anybody disagree with nhammen's suggestions for my investigation (Wraith, hiphop, and bunny)?

[Flameaxe]

Mod can you tell us whats happening with Johnny Rotten and seth?

Also can we get a prod on Jay?

As stated in the rules, they get 48 hours to post from the prod, and right now would make that 48 hour point.

Yes, you may have a prod on Jay.

Shanba: Already on it.