Newbie 985 Game over

[Abe27342]

a) I have an intuitive playstyle that doesn't really lend to me explaining my suspicions well. On top of that, I had a bad experience with my first game as IC. For those reasons, I'm going to shy away from teaching for a while.
b) At the time, I didn't deem anyone yet worthy of my vote. Fence-sitting on page three is hardly a vote-worthy offense, and I figured it'd be better to pressure Zach a little without placing my vote on him.

About your post, David; I think I've found a tell! I'll wait to see if it plays out, though (and this is just a note to self for when I re-read).
Zach: It's the same tell that I've figured out I can catch your wife with, as of the last game I played with her. Don't tell her, though.

Vote: FakeGod.
Yeah, really.

Early bussing? or lying about the tell?

[FakeGod]

I'd say trying hard to shift blame on to the easiest target he can see, but it's your call.

I rechecked the post timings, and realized that while Abe posted after Nik pushed me into L-1, Nashi did not.

so Abe gets some town cred from me as well.

[NashiNashi]

Let me just say that after D2, I would be defaecating myself if Fakegod turned out to be a scum.

[tvellalott]

Let me just say that after D2, I would be defaecating myself if Fakegod turned out to be a scum.

Indeed. Where are your FOS after these events; I'm actually growing increasingly suspicious of you. You were my main FOS D2.

[Abe27342]

I agree with tvell. Right now my FoS list is Nashi first, followed by tvell/kalofer (quite a ways back though) and then fakegod.

[Excedrin]

Vote Count

Kalofer (1): FakeGod

not voting: Abe27342, tvellalott, Kalofer, NashiNashi
alive: 5 majority: 3

[FakeGod]

Nashi would come in 2nd in my fos list, but a lonnnng-way 2nd.

[tvellalott]

Don't get tunnelled on Kalofer because he voted for you last day phase FakeGod. We're getting to the serious end of this game. Even though we're not at LYLO or MYLO I'd still rather lynch the right person and end this game today. Everyone should post their FOS in order of highest to lowest and why and we can go from there.
SO:
1. NashiNashi: I think you bussed Nikanor but expected me to hammer FakeGod because of his suspicions of me. I've also got my doubts and I'm not going to commit a vote until everyone speaks.
2. Abe27342: Hmmm, I don't like something. You're a very agreeable chap and I find it quite scummy, though it isn't a surefire scumtell so I have my doubts about this as well.
3. FakeGod: Its entirely possible that you are the mafia and you killed Zach to put suspicions on Kalofer. I think you've been pro-town though, which is why you're low on the list.
4. Kalofer: At this point, I'm sure you're town, despite being number one on FakeGods bandwagon. If you turn out to be mafia I'll be shocked. I've gotten newb town reads from you all game.

[FakeGod]

well, I really believe Kal is scum, and if I'm wrong, then I'm wrong.

I'm just giving town my honest thoughts. *shrug*

But looking at town's consensus, I'd say Nashi (with foses from tvell, Kal, and Abe) is more likely to be lynched today than Kal.

[Excedrin]

Vote Count

Kalofer (1): FakeGod

not voting: Abe27342, tvellalott, Kalofer, NashiNashi
alive: 5 majority: 3

Why is activity so low? Kalofer hasn't posted in 3 days, I'll prod him soon, but his last post was #596 which is only one page ago.

[Kalofer]

Yeah sorry about that, haven't had much time for mafia lately hence my low activity. I'll have to get more serious soon and make a large post, but for now, as a response to Tvell:

1) Nashi/Abe - for now I see either of the 2 having an equal chance of being scum mostly due to the fact that tvell and Fake, both of whom were critical in the lynching of a scum have a higher chance of being town.

2)Fake/Tvell - Once again, I can't decide who is scummier than the other but both seem relatively town (if I choose to disregard my paranoid feelings) as both have been critically involved in the lynching of a scum.

On another note, I find it weird that out of all people, Zach was lynched. After the Nikanor saga I'm assuming that everyone at night 2 was thinking "there's no way that after all of this Fake and Tvell can be scum" and hence following that logic either Tvell or Fake would be nightkilled due to the fact that they would obviously seem town after the night and the remaining scum would want to try to keep things as "spicy" as possible so that people don't catch onto him. Night 1 proceeded like this wherein a slightly less controversial person who was flying low on radar was nightkilled thus maintaining the level of spiciness (because after that I accused Zach but he turned out town and I'm assuming that's what scum want- townies incriminating other townies). This raises my suspicion of Tvell and Fake albeit by only a little. Excuse me of delving too deep into the matter but I try to be thorough and look for everything (unfortunately that only makes me ever more irresolute).

[Kalofer]

PLEASE DON'T PROD ME MOD!!!!!

[tvellalott]

Yeah sorry about that, haven't had much time for mafia lately hence my low activity. I'll have to get more serious soon and make a large post, but for now, as a response to Tvell:

1) Nashi/Abe - for now I see either of the 2 having an equal chance of being scum mostly due to the fact that tvell and Fake, both of whom were critical in the lynching of a scum have a higher chance of being town.

2)Fake/Tvell - Once again, I can't decide who is scummier than the other but both seem relatively town (if I choose to disregard my paranoid feelings) as both have been critically involved in the lynching of a scum.

On another note, I find it weird that out of all people, Zach was lynched. After the Nikanor saga I'm assuming that everyone at night 2 was thinking "there's no way that after all of this Fake and Tvell can be scum" and hence following that logic either Tvell or Fake would be nightkilled due to the fact that they would obviously seem town after the night and the remaining scum would want to try to keep things as "spicy" as possible so that people don't catch onto him. Night 1 proceeded like this wherein a slightly less controversial person who was flying low on radar was nightkilled thus maintaining the level of spiciness (because after that I accused Zach but he turned out town and I'm assuming that's what scum want- townies incriminating other townies). This raises my suspicion of Tvell and Fake albeit by only a little. Excuse me of delving too deep into the matter but I try to be thorough and look for everything (unfortunately that only makes me ever more irresolute).

This is very logical. However mafia has such an element of WIFOM that you can seriously never know...
Was Zach killed to make you look scummy?
Did you kill Zach to make yourself look scummy and thus seem like the target of a frame?

The cycle goes on forever. Clearly Zach was killed for a reason. If we can deduce the most likely reason I think we'll find our scum. Personally I think Zach was killed because his death puts suspicions on both of us Kalofer. Before the Nikanor lynch Zach (and FakeGod for that matter) were seriously FOSing me.
Anyway, I've heard enough.

VOTE: NashiNashi

[Abe27342]

VOTE: Kalofer

Full list, from least suspicious to most suspicious--
FakeGod: Pioneering a lynch on the roleblocker pretty much, along with lots of protown behavior and activity. Nikanor claimed a tell on you d1, along with an early vote. I'd be surprised if you flipped scum.

tvell: Also helped the Nik lynch, along with put himself out there on page 24 or 23 or so (the post about his playstyle)

NashiNashi: Not very active, although not quite a lurker. Sitting on the fence, a lot of this is gut tell and the tell of the others innocence.

Kalofer: That logic post just reminded me a LOT about a game of EM I just played. It was a multisetup clusterfuck, and the mafia was incredibly skilled (far better than me), they provided ridiculous amounts of logic to show why it made sense I was mafia, only to be countered by the non suspect (he was cleared by afk -.-) to point out that I wouldn't go to that length when choosing the kill target. Logic like that in this scenario is all useless largely because of wifom. Anyway, your defending nik was suspicious, along with your play past d1. if you're mafia, you're a very good mafia. Also,

We need a big, chunky post from you Nik and soon.

Don't count on it.

FakeGod, when did your town read of Nashi came into play? I'm thinking the same thing as Kalofer here: you're spending an inordinate amount of time asking questions of someone you think is town.

[NashiNashi]

There are 5 people left now, one of which is a scum. Up until D2 I thought FakeGod was a more likely candidate due to the reasons I mentioned, as well as the peculiar tendency of asking people to not lynch the most scummy person under the reason of "we'd get more information if we lynch someone less scummy". Yet FakeGod also have led the lynching of Nik. It is still possible that he is the scum who have gained a good deal of credibility by doing this, but right now I'm really leaning town on him. The only other strange thing is that being THIS active, I found it strange that the mafia killed Zach over FakeGod last night. You'd think FakeGod is the biggest scum threat right now.

Right now my top FOS is Tv. I have read town in the first two days thinking lots of his behavioru was based on being new at Mafia, a bit like Kalefor or myself. Yet out of all three of us who played pretty badly, he's the only one who self-confessed to be a more regular player. So in that case, I wonder how much of the over the top hissy fits were for show.

[tvellalott]

Right now my top FOS is Tv. I have read town in the first two days thinking lots of his behavioru was based on being new at Mafia, a bit like Kalefor or myself. Yet out of all three of us who played pretty badly, he's the only one who self-confessed to be a more regular player. So in that case, I wonder how much of the over the top hissy fits were for show.

When this game started I had only played one other game of Mafia. Around the end of Day 2, I discovered Epicmafia and have been playing about 10 games a day to get my skills up. Clearly I've grown over the course of this very long game, as a newb should strive to.

Also, ALL of the 'over-the-top' hissy fits were for show. It's what I've already repeatedly refered to as the guns-blazing madness style. It is working very well on EM too. People get into these routines and feel they have to play the game a certain way; that things need to be done in a certain order because a similar thing happened in such and such game and these were the results. This game doesn't work like that. It is literally different EVERY time. So I come in and fvck with your idea of how the game should be played and it freaks scum out. It may get me lynched. I'm here for a good time not a long time. I win as long as town wins, even if I die.

PS: I just find it amusing that despite everyone discussing your potential scumminess since the start of this day, you only FOS me now, after I put my vote on you.

[NashiNashi]

@Tv So I'll take that you have missed when I voted for you a few days ago, and the only reason I took the vote away was because at the time I thought the emotions were genuine.

You have now admitted that was a lie all along, which have killed the only pro-town reading I had on you. Now my choice is easy.

Vote Tvellalot

[tvellalott]

I'm confused. Where did I say I was lying?
There is a clear and obvious difference between playing a certain way and lying.
Did you read what I said after "It was all for show..." ?
This OMGUS vote is terribly scummy.

[NashiNashi]

@Tvellalott

I did read the whole thing, actually. No, I'm not convinced. Do you seriously think that claiming you want the town to win is going to be sufficient to prove that you are town?

And I have to laugh at the comment about how I only FOS you now. I'll take you purposely ignored a good chunk of my last post. Nice try but, no.

[tvellalott]

@Tvellalott

I did read the whole thing, actually. No, I'm not convinced. Do you seriously think that claiming you want the town to win is going to be sufficient to prove that you are town?

And I have to laugh at the comment about how I only FOS you now. I'll take you purposely ignored a good chunk of my last post. Nice try but, no.

You mean the one you posted after I voted for you?

[Kalofer]

Yeyyyyyyy I'm at L-1. I am right now daring someone to lynch me.

Abe, it is my opinion that this whole game is largely a type of WIFOM in which a person can choose to look at someones post as being either scummy or town and this constantly repeats itself. I guess I can't convince you that I'm town but I will repeat myself in saying that I WOULD BE ONE DUMB SCUM if I killed Zach who was also defending Nik, why would I kill him and then knowing that suspicion would turn to me even have to bother making these defences when I could just as well have killed Fake or Tvell or Nashi or you and saved myself the trouble. And just to clarify I defended Nik because Fake and almost everyone else was jumping on him just because he was inactive which I think is a scummy reason to vote for someone at least until they are given time to defend themselves (I do admit when Nik suddenly came in and voted for Fake that really got me suspicious of him) but until then I wanted to prevent what I saw as a needless lynch and if Nik turned townie we wouldn't have really learnt anything.

[Kalofer]

Besides, scum would attempt to try to have as little as possible with their partners so why would (if I were scum) stick my neck out for Nik knowing that even if Fake was lynched instead of Nik this immediately makes me the target.

[Kalofer]

I mean ok, I know this is WIFOM but if you seriously think I'm scum after this and for acting like this and I can't convince me otherwise you may as well lynch me, town can afford to make 1 more mistake after all.

[Abe27342]

tvell, games of the same setup should be played in a similar opening, which is the optimal opening. If there are multiple good openings, they should be played out in one of them. Your style only works to a point in the beginning. In a game with watcher, 7 blues, and mafia, you shouldn't tell watcher to claim.. The reason why people evolve to playing a setup a certain way is because it is the smart way to play that setup.

And yep kal, we have a ML. sorry if you're town :/

[Kalofer]

You should be saying sorry to yourself, you're the ones who are gonna have more work to do later on. I must say that you're voting for me on a very shallow basis - just because I defended someone who turned out scum.