Newbie 994: Stop! In the Name of Sudo! Game Over!

[Beanman]

Ugh, the game from hell.... In my defense to playing differently, I stated during day 1 of that game, That it was not my usual playstyle. And it wasn't, even for town. Also, there is also nothing to really compare it to, so I really don't see the value of using it as any sort of read on me, as I really have no meta yet...

Anyways, hey Tant, and welcome.

A few things. I am not thrilled with how fast that bandwagon took off from the moment I initially threw my vote down on Warrior till the lynch. Just happened way to fast for me to not believe scum wasn't involved.

I absolutely hate Apples reason for voting him, actually DDD keyed in on the same reason(although it seemed DDD had a strong case for his vote all-together). I see absolutely nothing scummy about someone who was pretty much ok with any lynch with like literally days before a no lynch. He did some scumhunting day one, it was probably stronger than mine, and alot stronger than warriors. He said in post 188 "you have the wrong guy," and I'm not really sure why, I seriously can't explain it, it's completely purely gut, but I believe him at this point. He asked warrior what he thought of a lynch on Dimaba and him. I somehow think he became enamored with DDD saying he thought those people were town, that it affected his judgement on a few things. However, my gut isn't always correct, and the logical evidence shows some scummy things, so I would like to hear from some other folk and seeing how it progresses from this point.

On the opposite spectrum, I'm not as convinced that DP is obvtown like you said, just because he didn't quick lynch. A good scum player can also see a quick mislynch forming, sidestep, and let a noobtown hammer unwittingly, just so the noobtown can get the blame, and get mislynched the next day, while the scum player looks inno for not joining in. I know this is WIFOM, but I felt it needed to be said, as DP imo is not obvtown in my eyes. Also his reason to not vote was never really explained well. He had to be asked multiple times, and in complete contrast, DDD in the same post he voted, argued against DP's weak case. I'm still leaning town, but it's not obvious, and I am almost positive, whatever DDD is, DP is the opposite. And I'm not 100% sold on DDD being scum yet. If anything, there is good evidence DP may very well may be scum, so at this point, he's sorta in the middle for me.

I do agree with you, that at least one of the 3 you mentioned is probably mafia. I'm not even close to 60% on anyone, so I'm not casting my vote yet, as I see another potential mislynch forming fast, and we still have plenty of time left.

DDD is sorta in the middle right there with DP. While his case on Warrior was pretty crap at the beginning, he presented a well thought out case on DP, although he did seem to ignore alot of the accusations DP cast on him. And his case on Warrior was stronger his second go, but it was pushed by really weak "he's town" cases presented by DP and seth. He's also probably propelled discussion along as strongly as anyone, maybe the strongest, along with DP since he joined, which is a very pro-town thing to do. So I'm on the fence about DDD as much as DP, however I don't see a scum pair connection between these two, as I didn't see one between warrior and DDD.

Theperson-Hasn't really posted much information for me to really give an acurate analysis on.

Tant-You've come out pretty strong, I had a town read on seth, but that was more a gut read, and the read feels more secure since you took his place.

Vohl-I actually completely disagree with you. I think an D1 power claim can have benefits if it was outed on a mis-lynch wagon. The PR claim basically would automatically get the wagon off them, it would force the mafia to NK them(if the claim were true) and yes while that sucks to lose the PR, it also gives us a better statistical probability of lynching an actual mob that day. I think it's always a mistake to hammer w/o asking for a claim, but this is a newbie game, and this is where we learn.

I apologize for wall of text. I usually prefer smaller, very 'to the point' posts, however here and there in games, I feel it necessary to show what I'm thinking, so I can be transparent as possible. I hope it's not too bad to read.

I will be glad to answer any questions anyone has.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Really did not like DDDP quoting Amished's post of criticizing someones posts of who you replaced into it is a scumtell, and then he votes DP based on that.

I have to assume this part was directed at me and I’d love to know why you don’t like someone bringing in a scumtell they’ve found to be accurate and useful before and applying it.

Also, I'm pretty sure DP is obvtown - as a fairly experienced player he could have come up with a good reason to hammer warriormode.

You obviously know what WIFOM is since you mention it later, but I’m a bit confused how you didn’t recognize this argument for being just that. Since people are almost invariably more suspicious of people on an incorrect wagon, so it makes sense for scum to avoid being on an incorrect wagon if possible. But town might realize that and suspect people off the wagon so it actually makes more sense for scum to be on the wagon, but…

WIFOM

.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Reason being is I think we have a doc. We do not know WHAT we have but we know it is a doc/cop or both. If I were the scum I would not try to kill the IC as the IC is probably going to be protected if there is a doc.

Though it could also mean the IC is scum as well, or the scum wanted me to think that so they didn't kill the IC for that reason alone (a bit WIFOM'y - I know) I really do think the 2 scum lie in these three though.

And this is why night kill speculation is useless. It might be that we have a doctor and that forced scum to try and kill someone other than me, it might be that scum thought they had a read on a power role, it might be that scum thought they should kill a player that no one really thought was scum, it might be that I'm scum, and it might be that scum pretty much randomly killed so that there's no possible way for us to correctly divine their motives. There are too many options and we have too little information to make such analysis worthwhile.

[Sudo_Nym]

Vote Count:

Applefarmer L-2: tanstalas, DavidParker

[tanstalas]

I have to assume this part was directed at me and I’d love to know why you don’t like someone bringing in a scumtell they’ve found to be accurate and useful before and applying it.

Because I clearly do not agree with it, as mentioned by others I have replaced in to games where I was reading the thread before a spot even came open and thought the person I replaced in for seemed scummy and turned out to be town.

[theperson]

Alright guys,

I am the cop

. DavidParker is mafia. I didn't realize it was day till I got my prod, I'll read up to what's been said so far.

[tanstalas]

Vote: Unvote
Vote: DavidParker

This should be a very easy lynch. If he is telling the truth we kill a mafia, if he is lying we kill him tomorrow and stay out of LyLo

[theperson]

Wow, I forgot to vote...

VOTE: DavidParker

[tanstalas]

EBWOP: Hope he is telling the truth, if he is and if we have a doc, you NEED to protect theperson tonight - this is probably obvious, but just making that perfectly clear.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I have to assume this part was directed at me and I’d love to know why you don’t like someone bringing in a scumtell they’ve found to be accurate and useful before and applying it.

Because I clearly do not agree with it, as mentioned by others I have replaced in to games where I was reading the thread before a spot even came open and thought the person I replaced in for seemed scummy and turned out to be town.

Yeah, but you didn't make public comments to that effect; now granted that's probably at least partially because I dropped the tell I did on the board but given what has just happened I think I'm pretty freaking vindicated right now. A fake claim here is completely nonsensical, if for some reason it is fake then it's an auto-lynch tomorrow of scum anyways, but I'm pretty confident I was right.

VOTE: DavidParker

[DavidParker]

Counterclaim: Cop

Here is my trail:

C

are to explain your case on ThePerson, or is it just buddying?

O

nly his slight lack of scum-hunting seems a bit suss, but it was day one.

P

erhaps, my neutral/town read on him is largely due to him seemingly to lurk quite a bit and be absent for long periods of time...

Beanman

: quick iso, reveals little scum hunting either and a perhaps scummy way that he clings on

To other people's cases, although he d

O

es justify his votes usually.

W

ell, applefarmer's play and hammer, still strikes me as by far the scummiest.

N

ow, my read on volo and seth (tanstalas) are still both very pro-town, in that order of "towniness", leaving me to think that the other scum would lie in dddp/beanman.

I investigated beanman last night he came back as town.

Which only means one thing,

Vote: ThePerson

[DavidParker]

Okay, I failed my bolding, but you get the point. Here's what it should read:

C

are to explain your case on ThePerson, or is it just buddying?

O

nly his slight lack of scum-hunting seems a bit suss, but it was day one.

P

erhaps, my neutral/town read on him is largely due to him seemingly to lurk quite a bit and be absent for long periods of time...

Beanman

: quick iso, reveals little scum hunting either and a perhaps scummy way that he clings on

T

o other people's cases, although he d

O

es justify his votes usually.

W

ell, applefarmer's play and hammer, still strikes me as by far the scummiest.

N

ow, my read on volo and seth (tanstalas) are still both very pro-town, in that order of "towniness", leaving me to think that the other scum would lie in dddp/beanman.

[tanstalas]

Okay, I failed my bolding, but you get the point. Here's what it should read:

C

are to explain your case on ThePerson, or is it just buddying?

O

nly his slight lack of scum-hunting seems a bit suss, but it was day one.

P

erhaps, my neutral/town read on him is largely due to him seemingly to lurk quite a bit and be absent for long periods of time...

Beanman

: quick iso, reveals little scum hunting either and a perhaps scummy way that he clings on

T

o other people's cases, although he d

O

es justify his votes usually.

W

ell, applefarmer's play and hammer, still strikes me as by far the scummiest.

N

ow, my read on volo and seth (tanstalas) are still both very pro-town, in that order of "towniness", leaving me to think that the other scum would lie in dddp/beanman.

I will switch vote just because you breadcrumbed that, and wow that was so obvious I feel bad that I didn't catch that

You seem more plausible because theperson claimed when he was still at L-2, and the fact you breadcrumbed (which you may have been doing to set yourself up as a fake cop claim later in the game anyhow, who knows - WIFOM)

Regardless if you are lying we will kill our cop, but we will at least get a scum kill out of it either way tomorrow, and then me theory of your scum partner being apple or DDDP still stands

Vote: Unvote
Vote: theperson

[Applefarmer]

On one hand, I don't see any reason for theperson to be lying right now, but...

Okay, I failed my bolding, but you get the point. Here's what it should read:

C

are to explain your case on ThePerson, or is it just buddying?

O

nly his slight lack of scum-hunting seems a bit suss, but it was day one.

P

erhaps, my neutral/town read on him is largely due to him seemingly to lurk quite a bit and be absent for long periods of time...

Beanman

: quick iso, reveals little scum hunting either and a perhaps scummy way that he clings on

T

o other people's cases, although he d

O

es justify his votes usually.

W

ell, applefarmer's play and hammer, still strikes me as by far the scummiest.

N

ow, my read on volo and seth (tanstalas) are still both very pro-town, in that order of "towniness", leaving me to think that the other scum would lie in dddp/beanman.

Are you suggesting that you were giving us a secret message there?
To others: Just checking, but is this common practice/something I should look out for?

[Applefarmer]

Okay, I failed my bolding, but you get the point. Here's what it should read:


You seem more plausible because theperson claimed when he was still at L-2, and the fact you breadcrumbed (which you may have been doing to set yourself up as a fake cop claim later in the game anyhow, who knows - WIFOM)

Am I missing something... theperson didn't have any votes when he claimed, did he?

[tanstalas]

On one hand, I don't see any reason for theperson to be lying right now, but...

Okay, I failed my bolding, but you get the point. Here's what it should read:

C

are to explain your case on ThePerson, or is it just buddying?

O

nly his slight lack of scum-hunting seems a bit suss, but it was day one.

P

erhaps, my neutral/town read on him is largely due to him seemingly to lurk quite a bit and be absent for long periods of time...

Beanman

: quick iso, reveals little scum hunting either and a perhaps scummy way that he clings on

T

o other people's cases, although he d

O

es justify his votes usually.

W

ell, applefarmer's play and hammer, still strikes me as by far the scummiest.

N

ow, my read on volo and seth (tanstalas) are still both very pro-town, in that order of "towniness", leaving me to think that the other scum would lie in dddp/beanman.

Are you suggesting that you were giving us a secret message there?
To others: Just checking, but is this common practice/something I should look out for?

Wiki breadcrumbing, look at the letters he capitalized, and what they spell out, very obvious that he capitalized letters that SHOULD be lowercase ie: the "O" in the word "does"

[tanstalas]

Okay, I failed my bolding, but you get the point. Here's what it should read:


You seem more plausible because theperson claimed when he was still at L-2, and the fact you breadcrumbed (which you may have been doing to set yourself up as a fake cop claim later in the game anyhow, who knows - WIFOM)

Am I missing something... theperson didn't have any votes when he claimed, did he?

Ugh, I got you and him mixed up

[DavidParker]

Well, I tried just to use letters at the start of sentences to not make it obvious (ie: So I don't get nightkilled/blocked)

I posted a suspicion for beanman because I didn't want to paint him as pro-town, I'd rather he survived until LYLO so I could have a confirmed town alive rather than dead.

I'll get back later tonight with who I think ThePerson's scum buddy is but right now I have to get to work sadly.

[Applefarmer]

On one hand, I don't see any reason for theperson to be lying right now, but...

Okay, I failed my bolding, but you get the point. Here's what it should read:

C

are to explain your case on ThePerson, or is it just buddying?

O

nly his slight lack of scum-hunting seems a bit suss, but it was day one.

P

erhaps, my neutral/town read on him is largely due to him seemingly to lurk quite a bit and be absent for long periods of time...

Beanman

: quick iso, reveals little scum hunting either and a perhaps scummy way that he clings on

T

o other people's cases, although he d

O

es justify his votes usually.

W

ell, applefarmer's play and hammer, still strikes me as by far the scummiest.

N

ow, my read on volo and seth (tanstalas) are still both very pro-town, in that order of "towniness", leaving me to think that the other scum would lie in dddp/beanman.

Are you suggesting that you were giving us a secret message there?
To others: Just checking, but is this common practice/something I should look out for?

Wiki breadcrumbing, look at the letters he capitalized, and what they spell out, very obvious that he capitalized letters that SHOULD be lowercase ie: the "O" in the word "does"

Yeah.. I just realized upon looking back that those letters were actually capitalized in the post....
I still find it very strange that theperson would have outright fake claimed though at this point, and I don't find it particularly far fetched that DavidParker could have been fake claiming with that...

Not going to be too hasty with my vote this time.

[tanstalas]

Ugh, I am so torn now...

Vote: Unvote
Vote: DavidParker

I would have claimed without any votes on me as well if I got a guilty reading on someone, as I'd be afraid I would die the next night before I got to tell anyone. I'm going to go with the breadcrumbing as you setting yourself up for a fake cop claim.

If you are lying, I hate you so much theperson

Noone hammer until DP says who he thinks theperson's scumbuddy is though, if we do end up killing our cop then the fake cop tomorrow and our real cop was DP I'd like to know who he suspects his buddy was

[DavidParker]

Yeah.. I just realized upon looking back that those letters were actually capitalized in the post....
I still find it very strange that theperson would have outright fake claimed though at this point, and I don't find it particularly far fetched that DavidParker could have been fake claiming with that...

Not going to be too hasty with my vote this time.

I found it strange too, my guess is he may have noticed my breadcrumbing and wanted to mislynch someone who he had figured out to be the cop or he somehow thinks his partner can easily win in LYLO.

ie: Fakeclaim cop to get a townie lynched, it then becomes 5 person lylo, he gets lynched as scum. It's then a 3 person LYLO, and we only have 10 pages or so of discussion and finding which of those 3 is ThePerson's scum buddy when he has lurked through a lot of the game is a tough ask. I would say the odds would be in scum's favor if his fakeclaim of cop to get into LYLO worked.

[DavidParker]

actually i can't be bothered.

this is what i get for listening to my scum buddy and not killing theperson who i said was probably cop and would probably investigate me tonight. :/

Vote: DavidParker

[tanstalas]

Welcome to twilight, bring out the sparkly vampires...

Though I am starting to wonder if this may be a ploy, and maybe a very risky gambit between DP and theperson (ie: maybe both scum?) 50% chance that there was no cop in the game, only a doctor, fairly new to mafiascum games, is this a strategy that you have ever seen here guys? Both claim cop, bus the scum teammate and then the "cop" starts getting a bunch of innocent results (or investigated the person who died) until lylo then bam, cop says X person is scum, got a guilty..

Granted our cop "should" die tonight, if he doesn't then above may be true, though may also be WIFOM so we lynch our cop tomorrow..

[tanstalas]

EBWOP: Ignore last post, just realized something.. ugh

[Applefarmer]

actually i can't be bothered.

this is what i get for listening to my scum buddy and not killing theperson who i said was probably cop and would probably investigate me tonight. :/

Vote: DavidParker

I guess that makes a lynch...