Mini 1029: Boondox Mafia (GAME OVER!!!! )

[cloudocean]

Hey guys check out this tough guy.

If you had half a brain

you'd realize I'm not playing pussy I'm playing smart. I had a theory, someone presented a sensible counter argument and I agreed with them. Another player even debunked it further. Clearly it was a no go.

Why try push me into a poor strategy, using an ad hominem to boot? Doesn't seem like sensible town play.

vote: dumbarse

cloudocean

For a remark prodding you to actually do something, you're taking it quite personally.

To that point, my only real words had been about a poorly thought out strategy that we had already debunked.

You admit to not producing any real content here.

You were specifically pushing me to attacking people on my wagon, trying an attack on the person to give me extra incentive.

Yup. See 'not producing any real content,' and my "attack" [lol] seems to be working.

That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if the reads were right, and el simo was mafia.

You going to do something about it or let the rest of the town hold your hand throughout the game?

[FakeGod]

FakeGod, Raivann, and mongoose, what are your thoughts about this last string of posts (cloud vs. el simo and the case on Bunny) and of the game at this point in general. Any change in your scum read(s) at this point?

Fairly RVS oriented I'd say. The arguments are interesting but I think it's more likely to be town v. town.

Maybe if mysterio was posting more like the town I've known him to be, then I wouldn't think my math was so reliable.

reliable enough to bet your life on it?

[Mysterio]

@Kage- Not funny. I like your post though. I'm taking you and cloudocean of my scumlist and adding mongoose.

One of Mysterio & mongoose are scum, maybe both.

unvote, Vote:Mysterio

I don't think I've ever been accused of trying to hard to look townie.

Delicious OMGUS, on both me and mongoose. Couple this with your incredibly early "reads" and I think we have a winner.

I often shift my RVS vote to the highest wagon I see.

It builds character pressure early on, and it's something to talk about.

This is also a good way to cause distractions. Something that scum thrive on. If you're town, it's bad play.

Maybe if mysterio was posting more like the town I've known him to be, then I wouldn't think my math was so reliable.

I purposely change my meta for each game. So trying to meta me is a bad move. Also, you're far more likely to be town than scum, so my alignment in such a small number of games is meaningless. Furthermore, a lot of my games are ongoing and I haven't flipped either way, so that makes it an even worse move.

FoS: don_johnson

cloudocean insults simo and then acts surprised when simo takes it personally. Now he's pushing the fact that simo was wrong, which doesn't necessarily mean he is scum. His pressure looks suspiciously overeager. He should be right up there with don and Raivann as the most suspicious players in the game.

[cloudocean]

[quote=FakeGod]

Fairly RVS oriented I'd say

. The arguments are interesting but I think it's more likely to be town v. town.[quote]
Explain. I don't think I need to pull up quotes.
[quote=Mysterio]This is also a good way to cause distractions. Something that scum thrive on. If you're town, it's bad play.[quote]
No. Distractions are assuming that wagon is on town. Pressure improves reads.
[quote=Mysterio]I purposely change my meta for each game. So trying to meta me is a bad move. Also, you're far more likely to be town than scum, so my alignment in such a small number of games is meaningless. Furthermore, a lot of my games are ongoing and I haven't flipped either way, so that makes it an even worse move.[quote]
First two sentences are going to need finished games where you were town as proof. Second bit doesn't make sense, you're pulling up chance which is irrelevant to why Don is voting you. Translation of last sentence Don't meta me because I change my meta but I can't prove it, but still!
[quote=Mysterio]cloudocean insults simo and then acts surprised when simo takes it personally. Now he's pushing the fact that simo was wrong, which doesn't necessarily mean he is scum. [quote]
First bit avoids the bit where I insult simo in order to get off the fence, simo even acknowledged that he hasn't produced any content, his only stance as of so far is to OMGUS me which is lolz. Simo being wrong doesn't necessarily mean he's town either, pushing him in the first place will get me a nice read on him.
[quote=Mysterio]His pressure looks suspiciously overeager. He should be right up there with don and Raivann as the most suspicious players in the game.[quote]
How can pressure look suspiciously overeager Last bit is lacking a FoS or a vote.

Those who aren't pushing on people until they've been voted for need to understand that sitting on the fence and then OMGUS'ing isn't going to get you anywhere.

[cloudocean]

EBWODP: Strange, my tags were right when I copied them into notepad.

[Mysterio]

My best guess as to what your responses were.

No. Distractions are assuming that wagon is on town. Pressure improves reads.

First of all, no one assumed the wagon is on town. simo could very well be scum, but that's beside the point of putting someone at L-1 during RVS. Second of all, pressure and distracting are not the same thing. Calling every push "pressure" is highly naive. Scum also have this ability, and you need to keep that in mind while scumhunting. However, this is getting into a theory discussion that also serves as a huge distraction.

First two sentences are going to need finished games where you were town as proof.

No, the only thing those claims require is a read through of my games. I play differently in all of them. However, because some are still ongoing, I won't be discussing them any further. Which was the point of my last sentence, since don seemed it was a good idea to draw conclusions from unfinished games.

How can pressure look suspiciously overeager Last bit is lacking a FoS or a vote.

When that "pressure" is based on insulting the person and then acting surprised when they take offense (your defense that it was to get him off the fence is insane), then it's certainly scummy. Also, what the hell does "Last bit is lacking a FoS or a vote." mean? Do you not realize that I currently have a vote on Raivann and a FoS on don?

Those who aren't pushing on people until they've been voted for need to understand that sitting on the fence and then OMGUS'ing isn't going to get you anywhere.[/quote]

[Mysterio]

EBWOP: The last line of my post can be ignored.

[cloudocean]

I often shift my RVS vote to the highest wagon I see.
It builds character pressure early on, and it's something to talk about.

This is also a good way to cause distractions. Something that scum thrive on. If you're town, it's bad play.

No. Distractions are assuming that wagon is on town. Pressure improves reads.

First of all, no one assumed the wagon is on town. simo could very well be scum, but that's beside the point of putting someone at L-1 during RVS. Second of all, pressure and distracting are not the same thing. Calling every push "pressure" is highly naive. Scum also have this ability, and you need to keep that in mind while scumhunting. However, this is getting into a theory discussion that also serves as a huge distraction.

First of all, where did simo ever come into this. Guilty conscience if I ever saw one. Putting someone at L-1 during RVS isn't scummy, don't pretend like it is - the chance of someone getting hammered on RVS is less than .000001% Second sentence is irrelevant I never said that pressure and distraction are the same, third sentence is wrong - whether you like it or not, pushing on someone will put "pressure" on them. Fourth sentence is irrelevant as I never said that scum didn't have the ability to put pressure on anyone, lack of desire to pressure is completely different. Agree with fifth sentence.

No, the only thing those claims require is a read through of my games. I play differently in all of them. However, because some are still ongoing, I won't be discussing them any further. Which was the point of my last sentence, since don seemed it was a good idea to draw conclusions from unfinished games.

No one cares enough to go through all of your games, link us finished games where you have been town and have played differently or don't defend a meta scum read with more meta. So don isn't meta'ing off of a finished game?

When that "pressure" is based on insulting the person and then acting surprised when they take offense (your defense that it was to get him off the fence is insane), then it's certainly scummy.

Laugh my fucking ass off. I actually felt the need to spell that out. I even said in the same post where I insulted him that he needed to get off the fence. I can't tell if you're intentionally trying to twist things. The insulting and surprised bit is lolz. I told simo he needed to stop acting like a pussy and to get off the fence, and whether you deny it or not, he overreacted. Being called a pussy and overreacting either means you need to grow some balls or you're scum. From his previous behavior, I'm inclined to believe it's the latter.

Also, what the hell does "Last bit is lacking a FoS or a vote." mean? Do you not realize that I currently said that I suspect cloudocean as one of the three top suspicious players in this game.

Fixed.

Oh, and for the sake of hypocrisy:

FoS: Mysterio

[el simo]

Hey guys check out this tough guy.

If you had half a brain

you'd realize I'm not playing pussy I'm playing smart. I had a theory, someone presented a sensible counter argument and I agreed with them. Another player even debunked it further. Clearly it was a no go.

Why try push me into a poor strategy, using an ad hominem to boot? Doesn't seem like sensible town play.

vote: dumbarse

cloudocean

For a remark prodding you to actually do something, you're taking it quite personally.

No, I just think you're dumb. You should also note, you can't play an attack on the person and then cry if they take it personally, not if you're town at least, it's very scummy.

To that point, my only real words had been about a poorly thought out strategy that we had already debunked.

You admit to not producing any real content here.

As should you, because until you voted me you had nothing to vouch for yourself. And note, a theory is content, bad or not and it actually added to useful discussion, more than you could have claimed for at that time.

You were specifically pushing me to attacking people on my wagon, trying an attack on the person to give me extra incentive.

Yup. See 'not producing any real content,' and my "attack" [lol] seems to be working.

Not really, see I'm not responding to the 'pressure' you put on me. You should note I was just on L-1, another vote doesn't really bother me. I was responding to your scummy push. Had you voted me with some sort of pro town logic I'd have been fine with it, or if you hadn't replied with such a scummy set up even. So unless you specifically feigned being scummy to get me posting, no, your 'attack' isn't working. See when I see something scummy, I comment. There was nothing scummy until you voted me, nothing that I found at least.

[cloudocean]

No, I just think you're dumb. You should also note, you can't play an attack on the person and then cry if they take it personally, not if you're town at least, it's very scummy.

Someone is butthurt Anyways, your argument is dumb, you overreacted and you're trying to make my attack/response seem scummy when its not.

As should you, because until you voted me you had nothing to vouch for yourself. And note, a theory is content, bad or not and it actually added to useful discussion, more than you could have claimed for at that time.

Difference is, the interest of making discussion that pushed town motives was there for me. All you've done is defend yourself and discuss theory, which is distracting and superficial and OMGUS. So no, you've still yet to do something.

Not really,

see I'm not responding to the 'pressure' you put on me

. (response ---->

You should note I was just on L-1, another vote doesn't really bother me. I was responding to your scummy push. Had you voted me with some sort of pro town logic I'd have been fine with it, or if you hadn't replied with such a scummy set up even. So unless you specifically feigned being scummy to get me posting, no, your 'attack' isn't working. See when I see something scummy, I comment. There was nothing scummy until you voted me, nothing that I found at least.

)

Fixed.

Translation: Your pressure isn't working because there are already votes on me, and the reason why your scum is because your voting me!

Let's be honest. You

still

haven't shown ANY interest in scumhunting. Your suspicions are all OMGUS motivated . The only people you've actually cared to place an opinion on are the people that were on your bandwagon.

To everyone else, what do you think of el simo?

[Bunnylover]

So CloudOcean do you believe their is scum on the people who had voted against El Simo?
I asked this because you stated that putting someone at L-1 on RVS isn't scummy.

[cloudocean]

Maybe. Wouldn't put it past El Simo's partner to do a little distancing by voting on a lynch that probably wasn't going to happen.

[Skill006]

Sorry I haven't been posting very much. I'm going to eat dinner, then I'l finish reading everything and post. Sorry to keep everyone on the edge of their seats

[don_johnson]

wow. mysterio is playing terrible. vote stays.

oh, and the "i play every game different" thing is my thing. so knock it off.

more mysterio votes please.

[KageLord]

To everyone else, what do you think of el simo?

I obviously don't think he's as scummy for his reaction as you do. Your original post did seem like a personal attack and he responded in kind. Even if it was a bit of overreaction, I consider a slight overreaction to a slight personal attack as a null tell. Now, if he was overreacting to a single vote or two on him, that would be a different story.

[Skill006]

math is what it is. i can't fully explain it, as i'd have to discuss ongoing games, but i'm pretty sure its about time for mysterio to be scum. that said, i am beginning to think el simo may be scum as well.

Bad reason. That's just really weak.

I saw nothing to vote over. And I did random vote. It wasn't for anybody but it was a vote and it was random.

>.> I don't think that's what he meant...Just because you wrote "vote" doesn't mean you really even voted, if you know what I mean.

...the chance of someone getting hammered on RVS is less than .000001%...

No...you're wrong...Don't underestimate the power of human erroooooooorrrrrrr I'm normally very careful with votes, too.

wow. mysterio is playing terrible. vote stays.

oh, and the "i play every game different" thing is my thing. so knock it off.

more mysterio votes please.

Um, no. I don't think you're convincing anyone. We have no idea what is making you believe he's playing terribly, not to mention we have no idea why you voted him in the first place. Meta from unfinished games, or because he hasn't been scum yet? Both are super unreliable and weak.

vote: don_johnson

Your past vote has just been a crumby excuse

Bunnylover's sitting on the fence is somewhat scummy, as other people have noted. Mongoose is also being wishywashy. Especially with his last post, he kinda just took both sides and left

[Bunnylover]

Skill006 what is the point of saying that I'm sitting on the fence again <_<?
Its like your trying to get votes on me by that point <_<.
Trying to lead us down a wrong path are we?

[don_johnson]

Um, no. I don't think you're convincing anyone. We have no idea what is making you believe he's playing terribly, not to mention we have no idea why you voted him in the first place. Meta from unfinished games, or because he hasn't been scum yet? Both are super unreliable and weak.

mathematics is what it is. you can't argue that. if you place twelve names in a "random" generator, you can then generate odds as to the chances a certain name has to come up. the numbers may be "unreliable", but they are still numbers. in

this

game, mysterio is avoiding the spotlight. much more so than in my previous experience with him. he isn't scumhunting. don't pigeonhole my reasoning. and no. i don't have to explain it to you. you can figure it out yourself. what makes you think i am scum and not mysterio? because i'm voting him? because you disagree with my reasons? how do we know that you're not scum?

in any case. my vote moves when townmysterio shows up. the whole "i play differently every game" is a bit he stole from me. go ahead and read DNA Evidence.

Also, questions (for everyone):

1. How would you define your playstyle?
2. Do you plan to play differently this game than in your other games, or will you be sticking to your meta?
3. Do you know your win/loss record here on MS? What is it?
4. Can you link us to any of your past games?
5. What is your opinion on lurking?
6. How active will you be this game?
7. Are you scum? If so, who are your scumbuddies?
8. Which people here do you know and/or have played with before?
9. How large will your posts normally be?
10. What do you think players should do when a thread is open for pre-game chat?

1. i wouldn't.
2.

i always try to play differently.

3. in my sig.
4. don't link.
5. its detrimental to town. but it has its perks.
6. i have a v/la coming up from the 6 to 13, but otherwise i plan on being as active as i can.
7. no. i wouldn't tell you if i was, but i'd scum it up with zwet any day of the week.
8. zwet. i think only once or twice.
9. depends on what i have to say.
10. chat.

mysterio didn't answer the question. he was my mason buddy in this game.

[don_johnson]

here's another gem from our quicktopic in that game after i asked him if he was an alt:

Yeah, I'm sure we can wing something decent. I'm sure we'll have more information to pick through when N1 rolls around. And no, not an alt.

Just registered a week ago

.

granted the game started weeks ago, but one doesn't develop an "anti-meta" playstyle in two to three games.

long story short:

mysterio is not being original. he's being fake. why would a townie be fake? answer: they wouldn't.

conclusion: mysterio is scum. he's just trying to fit in so he ripped off an answer to some heat on him by tossing out an answer he'd heard somewhere before. will you vote him now?

[el simo]

No cloudocean, I am not voting you because you voted me (ie: OMGUS), I am voting you because you are scummy. I find it funny how you choose to ignore that and instead just claim that my vote is on you because your vote is on me, which I've cleared showed is not the case.

And again cloudocean, you are guilty of everything you have accused me of. You had not given anything to the game, you had not scum hunted, you are just as tunnel visioned, your own logic indicates you as scum yourself.

And for arguments sake, let's take up your view point.

You insinuated I was a pussy, voted me, I over reacted, I voted you back. Now do you really think that kind of response would've been to the vote you placed? Even after being at L-1? Or do you think maybe it had something to do with the ad hominem? Even if we take your view you're still wrong because that kind of response is almost definitely to the personal attack, not the vote.

Your logic defies me.

---

Don, I'll read over the thread and comment on mysterio, I struggled to see when we came out of the RVS so tbh I wasn't really paying much attention to all the voting and the quick remarks that was going on. I figured it was RVS but seemingly it was not.

[el simo]

Ok don you really haven't provided us with any information as to why mysterio is scum. You claim he is playing terribly, that he is playing different to other guys you have played with him where he has been town and that your math backs up your case fairly strongly, yet you don't say what is so terrible about mysterio, you don't show us how he is playing different, you won't reveal your maths to us and instead just provide with some quotes of yours in previous games. Trying to push a case off this is terribly poor town play.

---

As for Ravien, I didn't think that he was being serious about his votes, not for one moment, but everyone else did seem to. In fact when I first read this game I thought you were all 'playing' along with him and that we were still parked in the RVS. I suppose that is up to him to clear up for us.

---

As for cloud...

He ad hominem attacks me to get me voting, he specifically pushes me to 'back up my words' and to follow something we had already collectively agreed to not being productive.

He then claims I am over reacting despite insinuating I am a pussy and that I am OMGUSing. I feel he does not understand what OMGUS means, seeing as an "OHMYGODUSUCK" vote is voting someone specifically because he voted you. I clearly had a reason to vote him and I clearly explained it, yet he chooses to ignore this, not even defending himself from my claims, and just crys OMGUS and over reaction.

Further, he tries to back his vote up on me by saying I am still not scum hunting (despite my case on him, backed up with logic <- not OMGUS) claims I am OMGUSing and then argues that everything I've done has been a response to someone talking to me.

What he doesn't realize is that he himself was not scum hunting until his pressure vote and he has only been responding to other players as well.

Not only does this entire situation look like a poorly executed scum set up, ad hominem'ing then claiming OTT and OMGUS, but he is hypocritical, by his own logic he should be voting himself because he is just as scummy!

---

My vote remains where it is, dons case on mysterio is non existent and and Raviens is premature.

[FakeGod]

To everyone else, what do you think of el simo?

I obviously don't think he's as scummy for his reaction as you do. Your original post did seem like a personal attack and he responded in kind. Even if it was a bit of overreaction, I consider a slight overreaction to a slight personal attack as a null tell. Now, if he was overreacting to a single vote or two on him, that would be a different story.

When personal attacks enter arguments, it's usually a town v. town tell in my opinion. (esp. if scum didn't really have time to plan something like that out pregame)

Maybe if mysterio was posting more like the town I've known him to be, then I wouldn't think my math was so reliable.

reliable enough to bet your life on it?

I'd follow don, provided that he's ready to die if Mysterio flips town.

[mongoose]

Why all the hate on mysterio? Just because he "acts differently" that doesnt mean he is mafia. Actually it probably means he is either mafia or a power role, trying not to draw attention. Also, I think he s right on Raivann, since apparently mysterio and I are suspicious because of reasons not expressed. And that we voted for him. BTW, just a coincidence we keep being mentioned together, i think.

[mongoose]

Also, whats EBWOP mean?

[Mysterio]

I'd follow don, provided that he's ready to die if Mysterio flips town.

Then get your noose ready. In the meantime, I'm not liking the play by don so far. His case against me is beyond weak, but he seems to be going at it as if it were a sure fire scum lynch. That's way too much dissonance for me to give him a pass on.

Unvote

Vote: don_johnson