Mini 1034 - Castlevania Mafia (Game Over)

[Kdub]

Vote Count

LynchMePls (1)

- tanstalas

drmyshottyizsik (1)

- Katsuki

jenniwren (0)

-

UncertainKitten (1)

- McGriddle

MehPlusRawr (0)

-

Katsuki (0)

-

Dekes (0)

-

Coach Travis (1)

- jenniwren

zwetschenwasser (2)

- UncertainKitten, Coach Travis

McGriddle (1)

- VasudeVa

VasudeVa (0)

-

tanstalas (3)

- zwetschenwasser, LynchMePls, Dekes

No Lynch (0)

-

Not Voting (2)

- drmyshottyizsik, MehPlusRawr

12 votes available, 7 votes needed to lynch.

Deadline is September 16, ~ 9 am PDT.

[UncertainKitten]

Meh, I accept your argument but disagree with the conclusion. Doesn't feel accurate to me.

It feels more silly than precisely scummy.

@zwet: Fair enough.

[tanstalas]

What prevents townies from being lazy, especially in early game?

Fair point on the second. There does exist vote hopping that can benefit scum more.

If you are town you should not be lazy. Being lazy as town does nothing to help the town. Scum still get their kill at night even if noone is lynched during the day. If you are town and are not helping the town you would make a good mislynch. The only reason I can see to not be active in a thread is if you are scum or if you are a PR that does not want to get NK'd N1 (such as a doctor or a cop).

On the topic of no-lynches though, what are your guys opinion on a no-lynch? Since I asked the question I will answer it as well. I believe that a no-lynch can be a good strategy later in the game, however D1 town should ALWAYS get a lynch, even if it ends up being a mislynch as we can gain valuable information from whatever the person flipped, who was pushing hard for the lynch, etc.

[UncertainKitten]

No lynch is pretty much a terrible idea til mylo. And then it's basically based on what is the best strategy.

And while you shouldn't be lazy as town, people do do it that way. The trick is to figure out if it's scum intended laziness or not.

[jenniwren]

@UK: Mainly because we don't know what kind of information might ultimately prove useful to someone with an anti-town objective; I'd rather err on the side of caution.

[tanstalas]

EBWOP - Also you didn't explain why you forgot to leave out Zewt's vote on me in your analysis. Sub consciously protecting your scum-buddy?

Again you skirted around this question, care to answer it?

I'll tell you what I think, I think you intentionally left it out, just like you intentionally made it seem that I OMGUS voted him, which I didn't; I think you are manipulating what actually transpired to make me look worse because you got caught in a fallacy that you were voting for me because I OMGUS voted someone when in fact it was your scum buddy who OMGUS voted me. Either that or you aren't paying attention to the game that closely, which makes me think you are scum as well.

Let's look how your posts went down

You claim your scum radar went off and you voted me
You were asked for reasons why you voted for me and you replied "Desperation" and that I OMGUS voted
Then after UK pointed out that your scum buddy was actually the one who OMGUS voted you came out and said that I was the one who came out more scummy and then made a summary post with what went down but changed a few key facts to make me look worse.

[UncertainKitten]

Wise choice jenni.

So, I'll be honest, this whole fight disinterests me as far as scumhunting goes. You're arguing over drops in buckets. I will notify you when some actual scum intent starts occurring. I'll probably also poke people with questions as it interests me.

[MehPlusRawr]

No lynch is pretty much a terrible idea til mylo.

This. Why would you no-lynch outside of MYLO?

[zwetschenwasser]

scum intent is vague

[UncertainKitten]

No, scum intent is a fuckton more reliable than "scumtells". Scum intent reads the person, not a checklist of what they do. Scumtells catch...the most active person. Regardless of their alignment. Scum intent can actually be intelligently read.

[Coach Travis]

@Mod

Sorry, due to computer problems I will be V/LA for a couple days. If it gets to be too long replace me, but hopefully I'll be back soon.

V/LA acknowledged.

[tanstalas]

@Mod

Sorry, due to computer problems I will be V/LA for a couple days. If it gets to be too long replace me, but hopefully I'll be back soon.

Any thoughts while you have access?

[zwetschenwasser]

No, scum intent is a fuckton more reliable than "scumtells". Scum intent reads the person, not a checklist of what they do. Scumtells catch...the most active person. Regardless of their alignment. Scum intent can actually be intelligently read.

I disagreee vees zees hyposezis

[LimMePls]

EBWOP - Also you didn't explain why you forgot to leave out Zewt's vote on me in your analysis. Sub consciously protecting your scum-buddy?

Again you skirted around this question, care to answer it?

I'll tell you what I think, I think you intentionally left it out, just like you intentionally made it seem that I OMGUS voted him, which I didn't; I think you are manipulating what actually transpired to make me look worse because you got caught in a fallacy that you were voting for me because I OMGUS voted someone when in fact it was your scum buddy who OMGUS voted me. Either that or you aren't paying attention to the game that closely, which makes me think you are scum as well.

Let's look how your posts went down

You claim your scum radar went off and you voted me
You were asked for reasons why you voted for me and you replied "Desperation" and that I OMGUS voted
Then after UK pointed out that your scum buddy was actually the one who OMGUS voted you came out and said that I was the one who came out more scummy and then made a summary post with what went down but changed a few key facts to make me look worse.

No, I didn't skirt the question, I flatly ignored it because it was ridiculous.

Oh, and everything else you said is pretty much bullshit.

[VasudeVa]

vote: zwet

Ignore my questions and you get that.

[Katsuki]

Late, me tired, comp not willing to cooperate much, so few thoughts.

Zwet claim/fake-claim - normal
Zwet votehopping/play after - not so much

Head says scum, gut says town.
What I don't get though, was that if zwet was trapping, why end trap to vote first voter... That said, Travis' reaction was quite overly defensive.

However,

Vote: Tanstalus

. His interaction with zwet bothers me, and he doesn't even vote zwet, but "HOS'es" him. This seems ridiculous to me, and feels like scum afraid to place vote and be accused of votehopping like zwet was. His essentially OMGUS vote on LMP makes me feel good about this vote.

[tanstalas]

Late, me tired, comp not willing to cooperate much, so few thoughts.

Zwet claim/fake-claim - normal
Zwet votehopping/play after - not so much

Head says scum, gut says town.
What I don't get though, was that if zwet was trapping, why end trap to vote first voter... That said, Travis' reaction was quite overly defensive.

However,

Vote: Tanstalus

. His interaction with zwet bothers me, and he doesn't even vote zwet, but "HOS'es" him. This seems ridiculous to me, and feels like scum afraid to place vote and be accused of votehopping like zwet was. His essentially OMGUS vote on LMP makes me feel good about this vote.

I really love how everyone seems to ignore the fact that LMP ignored the first OMGUS and instead decided to focus on my HOSing Zwet and finding that scummy. Also that that is the main reason why people have voted for me.

Also LMP's responses so far have been a bunch of denial and deflection. Seriously, look at his ISO and tell me that doesn't look like scum.

In a lot of his posts in the game he seems to "misinterpret" or didn't pay attention to the posts.

ISO-3/4 - admits he didn't read the post he was referencing properly
ISO-5 - Votes me without any reason
ISO-6 - Claims he voted me because he is wary of people who shout OMGUS at first opportunity

after

he was asked for reasons
ISO-7 -

After

it is pointed out to him that Zwet was actually the first to OMGUS he makes up a little post and says that I voted when I didn't and leaves out the fact that Zwet actually DID Omgus vote
ISO-8 - Says "oops - I thought you voted when you only HoS'd" Another reading comprehension fail I guess?
ISO-10 - Refuses to answer my question, calls the rest of my post bullshit

@everyone

, what alignment is most likely to not pay attention to detail in posts?

If you are town you are scouring everyones posts for the smallest tell.
Look at LMP, and ask yourself, does it look like he is really paying attention to the game?

Even if LMP is town he is being very lazy with his posts. He posts with not enough facts/information in them. Twice other people (other than me) have pointed out this.

*Waits eagerly for LMP's "Nuh-uh" rebuttle post.*

Also in regards to Zwet - UK asked him a few questions as well, and he refused to answer them. As well as VasudaVa.

@everyone

-Can you honestly say that you get a town vibe from either of these people?

On a sidenote - where the hell is drmyshottyizsik?

[Katsuki]

I'll iso LMP tomorrow, but for me, zwet OMGUS was consistant to how he played after claiming. Your reaction to his OMGUS was suspect.

Tell me this, why no vote and just a "OMGUS HOS"?

[tanstalas]

I'll iso LMP tomorrow, but for me, zwet OMGUS was consistant to how he played after claiming. Your reaction to his OMGUS was suspect.

Tell me this, why no vote and just a "OMGUS HOS"?

Because I do agree that CT's vote on Zwet looked suspicious, he replaced his RVS vote with a serious vote just because Zwet "looked" scummy but didn't offer any reasons (also why my vote is sitting on LMP now) and he basically said "I have nothing so I'll switch my vote to this BW"

Then Zwet made the bussing comment, and I replied with whatever you want to believe and then he OMGUS voted me so I HOS'd him because he DID OMGUS vote me (for no reason - see above on my opinion of that) which is suspicious, however I already had my vote on CT who at that time looked just as guilty - albeit for different reasons so I just gave him the hand (and I gave reasoning) one thing you notice is I give reasoning when I vote people. The people on my wagon not so much, or are just parroting what others have said.

[UncertainKitten]

No, scum intent is a fuckton more reliable than "scumtells". Scum intent reads the person, not a checklist of what they do. Scumtells catch...the most active person. Regardless of their alignment. Scum intent can actually be intelligently read.

I disagreee vees zees hyposezis

That'd be cause you're an idiot. But it's OK zwet, hopefully that vig will put you out of your misery eventually ^-^.

Gonna bet tans is town. Wagon is happening too quickly and easily for bad reasons. But hey, feel free to wagon him, at least then wagon analysis will catch the scum later.

@everyone, what alignment is most likely to not pay attention to detail in posts?

Town.

If you are town you are scouring everyones posts for the smallest tell.

Then you're doing it wrong and you'll get a fuckton of false positives.


I apologize for the quote stripes, it was the easiest way to demonstrate my point. I'll try to avoid them in the future.

[McGriddle]

@everyone

, what alignment is most likely to not pay attention to detail in posts?

I think lazy town won't pay attention mostly. I know that's what I am doing regretfully. Skimming over posts for important meat. But I am also sick so who knows.

@everyone

-Can you honestly say that you get a town vibe from either of these people?

Yes

[LimMePls]

Late, me tired, comp not willing to cooperate much, so few thoughts.

Zwet claim/fake-claim - normal
Zwet votehopping/play after - not so much

Head says scum, gut says town.
What I don't get though, was that if zwet was trapping, why end trap to vote first voter... That said, Travis' reaction was quite overly defensive.

However,

Vote: Tanstalus

. His interaction with zwet bothers me, and he doesn't even vote zwet, but "HOS'es" him. This seems ridiculous to me, and feels like scum afraid to place vote and be accused of votehopping like zwet was. His essentially OMGUS vote on LMP makes me feel good about this vote.

I really love how everyone seems to ignore the fact that LMP ignored the first OMGUS and instead decided to focus on my HOSing Zwet and finding that scummy. Also that that is the main reason why people have voted for me.

Also LMP's responses so far have been a bunch of denial and deflection. Seriously, look at his ISO and tell me that doesn't look like scum.

In a lot of his posts in the game he seems to "misinterpret" or didn't pay attention to the posts.

ISO-3/4 - admits he didn't read the post he was referencing properly
ISO-5 - Votes me without any reason
ISO-6 - Claims he voted me because he is wary of people who shout OMGUS at first opportunity

after

he was asked for reasons
ISO-7 -

After

it is pointed out to him that Zwet was actually the first to OMGUS he makes up a little post and says that I voted when I didn't and leaves out the fact that Zwet actually DID Omgus vote
ISO-8 - Says "oops - I thought you voted when you only HoS'd" Another reading comprehension fail I guess?
ISO-10 - Refuses to answer my question, calls the rest of my post bullshit

@everyone

, what alignment is most likely to not pay attention to detail in posts?

If you are town you are scouring everyones posts for the smallest tell.
Look at LMP, and ask yourself, does it look like he is really paying attention to the game?

Even if LMP is town he is being very lazy with his posts. He posts with not enough facts/information in them. Twice other people (other than me) have pointed out this.

*Waits eagerly for LMP's "Nuh-uh" rebuttle post.*

Also in regards to Zwet - UK asked him a few questions as well, and he refused to answer them. As well as VasudaVa.

@everyone

-Can you honestly say that you get a town vibe from either of these people?

On a sidenote - where the hell is drmyshottyizsik?

Nuh-uh. (See what I did there?)

You still haven't explained where all your recent vote changes and HOS/FOS leave CT, who you apparently thought was so bad he was worse than zwet, but now you can't even be bothered with him.

[Katsuki]

Ya know what? LMP iso doesnt scream scum at all.

Tanstalus is flailing? Methinks so.

[Coach Travis]

Alright, for now I'm being allowed to use another computer, though I have to share it and can't post at night, so I'll be less active than I'd prefer, but I'll still be playing. Anyway, time for my catch up post.

About zwet:I've actually never seen day 1 fakeclaims like that before this game, so the whole thing just me a strange feeling, which I mentioned. Though reading more posts about it I can see how I overreacted a bit, and it's not a scum tell, so I won't just judge him on that. I do him find him scum though, because the vote hopping is pretty ridiculous, the fakeclaim came when the game was getting a bit more serious so it was a distraction, and both him and Tans looked bad in their exchange:Tans for being over defensive like crazy, but not voting him, plus the HoS was crazy just like LMP said, and zwet for saying OMGUS when it wasn't even that, because it wasn't a vote, just Tans disagreeing. Plus, I agree that nothing zwet's done has benefited the town so far. I actually think they could be scumbuddies distancing, and either way, I think it's likely one of them is scum. Right now I think I'll leave vote on zwet, because I find them equally scummy, so there's no need to change it.

But to ask a little game theory: Are provided fakeclaims a common thing around here? I've read/skimmed a couple of themed games and I don't think I've ever come across mod-provided fakeclaims.

I don't think they're common, but they're a possibility, and I know this for a fact:In the aforementioned Ghostbusters game, I was scum and the mod specifically gave us three characters who weren't in the game, that we could use as fakeclaims. So yeah, that could be a possibility for this game as well.

Coach Travis: Why are full claims better in such an early situation? Do you understand the (slight) benefits of locking claims vaguely as opposed to explicitly?

I don't think full claims are better early in the game. In fact, I don't like claims early in the game, because a townie making a fullclaim is just giving the mafia a target, while fakeclaims and soft claims are just pointless and distracting. What I do think is that once it's time to make a claim, full claims are better, because otheriwse it just feels like I'm neing teased with half the story and not the whole thing. Basically, I don't like claims to be used until necessary, but once they're used, I prefer full claims.

On the topic of no-lynches though, what are your gyncuys opinion on a no-lynch? Since I asked the question I will answer it as well. I believe that a no-lynch can be a good strategy later in the game, however D1 town should ALWAYS get a lynch, even if it ends up being a mislynch as we can gain valuable information from whatever the person flipped, who was pushing hard for the lynch, etc.

No-lynching is just plain bad, because lynching is the town's main weapon, so to waste it is to just give the mafia a free day to not worry. Basically, no-lynching means you have no chance of catching mafia, where lynching means you at least have a slight chance, so we may just have to smart with our lynches, make sure we're confident we're catching scum. Either way, not lynching is not an option.

@everyone

, what alignment is most likely to not pay attention to detail in posts

Townie, because mafia need to pay attention to everything they say, to make sure they don't do something stupid to get caught, so they're focus is a bit more defensive, where townies are more focused catching scum, so they tend not to worry as much about defense.

@everyone

-Can you honestly say that you get a town vibe from either of these people?

Not from zwet, no, but I actually like LMP for the most part. Aside from some mistakes in his recap, I think his points so far have been very good, and I definitely feel he's explaining himself well enough. You just don't like him because he's voting for you.

For now, I'll say zwet and Tans are my top suspects, LMP and UK( mostly because I think her questions have been good, and I feel she's given a lot content and has been helpful so far) are getting town reads, and I'm not sure about anyone else right now:I need to go through again later, because with this post I was so focused on catching up, I couldn't possibly notice everything.

[UncertainKitten]

Noted regarding claims. Thanks for the clarification. I'm in general agreement, though partial claims have a slight benefit of locking someone in a claim if done early enough. The disadvantage is of course scum generally have more tools to interpret such information than town.