Ladies Night -- Game Over

[Snow_Bunny]

Scary fast wagons imply to me that scum are more likely on. It's easier to jump in with the momentum.

I second this. The way Paws wagon formed make me think that surely one, but more likely two scums were on it.

Ah, it was not nice to not wait me before lynching. I still want camn love, but I'm also interested in how the Paws wagon build so fast. Specially fenchurch's hammer vote.

But I will go on that later when I have a bit more time. Can't let the boss see I'm procrastinating when I should be working...

Snow, you have no idea what you're talking about. Fenchurch's hammer vote is about as town as hammer votes gets.

The Paws wagon is a REALLY BAD BAD BAD wagon to be on as scum.

It would look bad, even if LATE on this wagon.

Think: a quick wagon on a lurker

that was about to be replaced

. Were I scum, I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.

On the other hand, I disagree with these. First, it's based on wifom, and it's not fact. A quickhammer like that can get an easy excuse, and it's the best way to hide in the wagon.

And I still feel camn is fakehunting with me. What are really the points against me? Not jumping like a sheep to the Paws wagon? Attacking her? I can't see the so-called logic behind her attack on me. And, I am the only one feeling a link between camn and DGB? DGB suggestion that the scum must be on the nonwagoners is also scummy. I can't help but to find a camn-DGB scum pair.

Vote: camn

I can bet camn is scum.

Wait, I'm not getting the Apok's love. What's exactly the thing on her?

[Sotty7]

She resorts to a policy vote, but qualifies the behaviour as something she dislikes doing, and would prefer not to do - but this vote lasts the entire day on Paws, which runs slightly contrary to Sotty's justification, as she never leaves this wagon for anything. It's perhaps a little brazen for scum, because I know she is a very adept scum player who must surely know this wouldn't look good if the Paws wagon went through.

Actually I was commenting on camn's talk about policy lynching. My vote on Paws was for pressure, she had made a useless post and I wanted her to actually post more as detailed in the vote post itself. I can understand why it looks like a policy vote though, but if I was looking in that direction, my vote would have been on Haylen.

As the day wore on Paws did nothing but avoid posting content. My vote moved from pressure to actual seriousness the more this happened as I explained in the thread. I find active lurking is normally a good scum tell but I was wrong this time.

I was confused as to why DGB never voted me yesterday. At the time I thought she was just pushing me for game reaction without actually believing what she was saying. That read seems to be wrong as she still is pushing me as scum today without actually doing anything about it. At this moment I am very weary about being linked to her.

= = = = = =

Sotty (for tentative, scaredy-cat language), ODD scumreads, and OFF the Paws wagon safely on a peripheral wagon that wasn't going anywhere.

Pretty sure I started the Paws wagon. What so ODD about my scum reads?

= = = = =

Out of all the people on the wagon, I think the first three are the most likely to be scum

(because of who they are, not just because they're the first three on the wagon).

And yeah, there's probably one off the wagon as well. I'd be

really

surprised if all three scum are either on or off the wagon.

The first three on Paws were myself, UncertainKitten and Apokalyptika. Why is there no vote with this post with how sure you are about all this? Why do you not further elaborate on who you think is scum and why?

Also, please elaborate on the bold part of this post.

= = = = =

Snow's vote is horrible as is Haylen's lack of attentiveness. I'd like to see who else Haylen thinks is scum ASAP. I am going to look back at Snow, but the post above just feels like she is resorting to OMGUS.

Gonna have some lunch then I will take a look at the Paws wagon.

[Sucrose]

The first three on Paws were myself, UncertainKitten and Apokalyptika. Why is there no vote with this post with how sure you are about all this? Why do you not further elaborate on who you think is scum and why?

Because I was waiting to see how Haylen would respond. And I'm not happy with how she responded. Four different posters mentioned the daytalk issue before the hammer, and then the next day Fenchurch specifically mentioned that Haylen still seemed unaware that scum had daytalk:

Has anyone else followed up on Ojanen's point about coaching-speculation? As far as I can see...

In 157 esuriospiritus suggests that Sotty might have been coaching Paws.

In 184 Apok comments that esurio may have a good point with this.

In 187 Sotty says that she was coaching in a way, in that she was trying to teach a new player.

In 229 esurio repeats her suspicions of Sotty coaching Paws.

And finally, in 283, Haylen implies that she is STILL unaware that mafia have daytalk. Given that this comes AFTER Ojanen has pointed out that they do, either Haylen hasn't been reading the game properly, or she's attempting to drop a deliberate (and now invalid) town-tell... I don't know what to make of that.

But what I really dislike is her reaction to me bringing it up, which isn't "Oh wow, I really screwed up there" its "you're scummy for pointing this out." It's enough for a VOTE: Haylen


Back to Sotty:

SCUMPUTER: SCUM DETECTED

Can you explain a bit more?

Sure could, sweet stuff.

It's the whining about hating to be scum. Sotty is describing her reactions when she picked up her role PM. That's why they are so vivid. They are recent, and very real.

Going waaay back in the thread, I thought this was a good catch, if nothing to lynch on on it's own.

But

, I tend to believe your explanation about making the wagon-starting vote on Paws was to put pressure on her to contribute, rather than being anything serious. So I've changed my mind; I no longer think you're one of the most suspicious people on the wagon.

[Sucrose]

Sorry for my posts being a little quote-heavy.

[Snow_Bunny]

I find funny how Sotty7 calls my attack omgus when it's camn the one omgusing me. ¬_¬

[camn]

What attack?
Your 'attack' has added nothing to this game. You have yet to hunt, build a case, ask an insightful question, or otherwise prove to be a benefit to the town in any way.

That is why you need to hang. Not omgus. Your vote against me means nothing to me at all. It inspires no emotion other than pity.

[Ojanen]

V/LA over, though sick. Post either soon or in circa 10 hours. Need to reread the last pages of D1 with less hurry.

[camn]

Wow, I iso'd Paws and I must say that there's nothing there. Nine posts of pure nothingness. Seems like someone is active lurking, and let's add the benching, and we have something worthy here.

FoS: Paws

.

Ah, it was not nice to not wait me before lynching..

What are really the points against me? Not jumping like a sheep to the Paws wagon?

Question

: Were you

for

or

against

a Paws lynch?

[Sotty7]

So I kinda got side tracked today when some friends showed up, so I haven't finished my ISOs yet.

Sucrose when did you change your mind? Do you still think there is scum in the first three Paws wagoners?

Snow, why did you wait to put your vote on camn then? It just feels really reactive to me.

[chauchaudotcom]

So you guys are going to hate me but...

Mod: I'm going to have to ask to be replaced

.

I'm sorry to hear that. I'll start looking for a replacement.

I realized after doing all the catching up I did tonight that I'm simply not going to have the time to dedicate to this game, so I decided to replace out early so RC won't have the trouble of finding a replacement later on. My apologies. But I'm going to answer questions first and post results of my isos before I leave.

--

Specifically where did you see it used for scum purposes?

Proclaiming yourself a lurker is giving yourself wiggle room to fall back on later on in the game. It is, as I've seen it, far more scum motivated then town. In any instance, you guys need to realize that this vote was placed five pages into the game. It's not like it was a solid tell. I was still in the midst of questioning others and attempting to get better reads on people. People seem to be over exaggerating the confidence I had in that tell.

Looking back, chauchau parked her vote on Snow for extremely weak and almost non game related reasons. The whole lurking meta thing is a horrible reason to keep your vote on someone for a big chunk of day one. While other things that were actually happening in the thread, chauchau kept harping on the lurking when Snow wasn't even lurking. That isn't scum hunting, that isn't anything but fluff.

1. It was game related.
2. It was a vote placed on page five. Really now, there wasn't much more to go on at that point and if you hadn't noticed I was in the process of pursuing others and attempting to give reads on them.
3. I wasn't harping on anything. I was explaining why I felt self proclaimed lurkers was a position that benefited scum motivation moreso then town. Your twisting of my posts and blowing things out of proportions is dully noted though.

Gently eggs on the Paws wagon here without seeming to commit either way. I have no idea if chauchau thought Paws was scum or

Because when I was actually here paws posted absolutely nothing. My posts were an attempt to get a lurker to post more and contribute. How do you determine if someone is scum or not if they post nothing? Exactly. So my posts didn't commit a stance on paws back then because there was no stance to be committed.

--

In any case, on to reads.

As per the Haylen debate. While she seems to overreact a lot and seems to be skimming parts of the thread I still feel like she's town. Her day talk miss rings genuine to me. The only thing that bugs me is why her vote is still on camn is she's voting camn for voting her because she's a mason (when that clearly wasn't the case).

camn, UK and fen are town. cepi and oja are null for me, not enough posts. Hoopla and DBG seem like town fighting.

That leaves Sotty, Sucrose, Apok and Snow_Bunny. Sotty and Apok I'm unsure of. Apok I had a town read on but I'm not liking his iso 8. Sotty jumps back and forth for me. At times she seems like she's actually trying to scum hunt but seems to be fixated on blowing my initial vote on sb out of proportion as well. Out of the four I'm gonna say she's the most neutral though. SB is scum. As per Sucrose I'm not liking either of her votes. Her D1 reads were hollow and I'm not seeing why Haylen's reaction is scummy.

--

In any case, I apologize again. Best of luck!

[Hoopla]

Fenchurch - why aren't you voting? Do you have any leading suspects so far?

[Hoopla]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Snow Bunny

I probably attacked DGB too harshly yesterday, and her response is the sort of thing I was looking - the sort of thing which has been noticably missing from her game. It also made me think what was more important to me today, too. Trying to lynch DGB who has been scummier than usual, or lynching someone off the Paws wagon, and I think this is where my vote belongs more, particularly since the Snow wagon has mysteriously vanished recently.

[camn]

Let's remedy that.

UNVOTE
VOTE SNOWBUNNY

For my previously stated reasons.
Please answer my last question, bunny.

ps.. chau chau just replaced out in the most townie way possible.

[UncertainKitten]

Hmm...I think I want a votecount on this page to check a trend. If it exists I think I'll be brought around to the Snow_Bunny wagon.

[DrippingGoofball]

chauchau is town. For posterity.

Willing to ride the Snow_Bunny wagon after votecount.

[Fenchurch]

Hmm...I think I want a votecount on this page to check a trend. If it exists I think I'll be brought around to the Snow_Bunny wagon.

Not official, but I think this is correct for D2 to date:

Spoiler: votechart

Fenchurch - why aren't you voting? Do you have any leading suspects so far?

I don't feel strong enough in so many of my reads that I want to push a particular wagon. I guess I'm most sure about Haylen, based on her mason comment (DGBs description of 'forced' is just right) and her reluctance to talk about it/provide a clear explanation for why she didn't read the game.

VOTE: Haylen

Snow_Bunny and Apok seem to be the leading candidates besides, and I feel pretty neutral about both of them at the moment.

I do feel a bit gitchy on DGB, and UK. Maybe Sotty. Null on Sucrose.

Hoopla, camn, chauchau, cepi, Ojanen all coming off as town.

I think I still need to do a lot of backreading to get a stronger grip on the game still, and the cases that have been presented.

[Haylen]

I didn't read the those pages properly because i was insanely busy on those days.

V/LA on weekends.

[Haylen]

DGB gives me scum vibes. Gut based read. Hoopla confuses the hell out of me. Fenchurch and Chau I see as town.

[UncertainKitten]

Hmm...that was both more enlightening and more frustrating than I could ever have hoped for. But, it was helpful, thank you Fenchurch. Assuming that's correct...well, the trend isn't as strong as I thought. But, I think I'll take a chance here

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Snow_bunny

[Fenchurch]

Hmm...that was both more enlightening and more frustrating than I could ever have hoped for. But, it was helpful, thank you Fenchurch. Assuming that's correct...well, the trend isn't as strong as I thought. But, I think I'll take a chance here

Care to share what it is you were looking for?

[UncertainKitten]

Oh, right, sorry. Thought the Haylen wagon was cropping up as a counterwagon, in which case I'd be pretty sure Snow_Bunny was scum.

[DrippingGoofball]

The scum is lurking RIGHT NOW

[Ojanen]

Hahaha.
I'm doing the read and some tangents. Fever makes my attention span match that of a squirrel's. Haven't been able to get this done the whole day of lying around. But it'll only get harder later.
Anyway, an impostor to share. I thought there was something hauntingly familiar about that cepi guy's style while rereading. Peculiarly. A bit of searching and my hunch was confirmed.
Hi there, tajo.
I still thought his day one reads post looked town but the read has been taken town a notch due to natural advantage in acting butch. Will have to cross-check time stamps with his populartajo and Anon accounts on how much lurking has been going on.

I would hope no one, certainly not someone who has been frequenting the website that long, would be so disrespectful. I didn't do any sort of background checking, investigating, or what have you because I had hoped no one would sink to such a level as to try and sabotage a casual game with innocent guidelines. I'll err on the side of ignorance given that this is just an allegation, and I don't really wish to persue it in any way.

Brahms's Requiem is awesome. It'll power the reread done now.

[Apokalyptika]

Sucrose is giving me town feelings, as is DGB to a lesser extent. Snow, I'm not a huge fan of, and her tunneling on camn isn't great, but I still feel my Haylen vote is the place to be.

[Sucrose]

Sucrose when did you change your mind? Do you still think there is scum in the first three Paws wagoners?

When I re-looked at the reasons why your initial vote was on Paws, and saw it would be perfectly reasonable for a townie to place a vote there. Not that I really consider it a town-tell, but it's not scummy. I still think that there's (probably) 2 scum on the Paws wagon, and they probably came sooner rather than later. Right now I'm looking more at Haylen than anyone else, though.